Catalyst Feedback Thread

[Sir Vincent III.1286]

Elemental Empowerment

- Stack number is hard to read -- change the color of the number that contrast the icon

 

Empowered empowerment

- It's too strong - +20% to all stats is bonkers

 

Energy Bar

- too small, hard to see -- it needs to be as big as a Life Force bar or Adrenaline bar

- fully energize Jade Sphere should glow the skill border to indicate that it's full

 

Depth of Elements

- description should include "Energy can only be gained in combat"

 

Hardened Auras

- what's the point of this trait? 

- it's far easier to apply Protection, that lasts longer, than getting a max stack of this

- the damage reduction is so tiny that it's not worth the hassle of proc-ing auras

 

Jade Sphere

- The Area of Effect is too small. It forces the ELE to be a sitting duck. I can already see a Thief laughing everytime the Catalyst drop their Jade Sphere because all the Thief has to do is wait it out.

- Area of Effect needs to be larger, I mean 3x larger, or it should follow the Catalyst just like a gyro.

 

Augments

- the requirement to be within the sphere and not only any sphere but a specific element adds unnecessary burden on using these utility skills. The element of the sphere shouldn't matter.

- this should have a passive and active similar to signet but gets boosted effect if used within Jade Sphere

 

Examples:

Soothing Water

- passive: small pulse heals similar to Dolyak Rune (2s CD)

- active: removes condition per pulse for next 5 pulses

Shattered Ice

- passive: shatter ice on your next strike dealing aoe damage (10s CD)

- active: apply chill on next shatter

etc.

[Arkaile.5604]

My own issues with the spec have already been communicated by others, so I won't bother writing that book. However, there is one thing I would like to address.

 

Those of you asking for the Jade Sphere to act like a Scrapper's gyros, that being a well which follows the caster around, have you forgotten about how much of a pain it can be to play a flimsy class in melee range and how much that limits build diversity? Have you lot been spending too much time farming trash mobs in squads while using a full set of dire or trailblazer? If you want point blank aoes, Tempest and Weaver already offer plenty, and the Jade Sphere, while it has some serious issues that need to be addressed, is at least an opportunity to add something more interesting than yet another point blank aoe with a couple pulsing boons.

[Silverpoopoo.1476]

The Hammer skill 3 orbs disappear so quickly that they feel useless.

[SmoovRihx.2789]

Does the fact that I just don't like the feel of a hammer on Elementalist count as a valid reason anymore? Or do we all have to write dissertations to make our point? No amount of tweaking would get me to play this spec, and offering constructive feedback would validate this garbage. I learned the game playing Elementalist. 

Edited September 22, 2021 by SmoovRihx.2789

[devastoscz.9851]

I'm gonna try an not be as bleak as most people in-thread, while still pointing out some of the stuff I feel needs changing, but first lets start with the positives:

• I think Catalyst has a lot of potential, some of the hammer skills have a good "feel" to them.
• There's enough diversity in the skills that, with some important tweaks, it could be very entertaining.
• The augments could pair fairly decently with the F5 skill (with some important changes).
• Hammer 3 is awesome, conceptually.

 

Now, the analysis of the current state, I'll make it brief since a lot has been explained already.

• Hammer feels slow. The charge ups and animation times in general are too high considering its melee and has 4 attunements.

• The F5 skill being stationary and linked to both energy AND cooldowns is not good. Especially since its so underwhelming.

• The augments need to be more impactful and should be easier to pair with the F5 (see above).
• The ranged skills are too low ranged. 600 range for a squishy class is a deaths sentence considering the lack of damage mitigation (this is no guardian)
• Hammer 3, to be worth it, requires swapping and sacrificing attunement cooldowns for an underwhelming payoff.
• I can see a LOT of people shooting themselves off cliffs with Air Hammer 4.

• Elite skill is basically worthless.

 

Now possible fixes
• Make most skills 20-25% faster.
• The F5 skill, being mostly a combo field, needs to move with you. Also consider it keeping the attunement its cast in unless you hit F5 again, at which point it swaps to the current attunement you're in. Let it drain down until you have no energy, then you can reactivate it again at say, 25% energy OR a cooldown (there's no point in hitting F5 to REMOVE the field and kill your energy).

• Make augments have combo finishers. This would give access to auras (important synergy in the traits). It would also allow for very interesting combinations of F5 swaps+augment combos.
• Ranged skills should be 900 range. Don't make ALL the skills ranged, but the ones that are, need 900 range.
• Hammer three needs way more time to build up the spinny orbs before they die off.
• Make Air Hammer 4 a two step skill. One press is the knockback, second press shoots you backwards.
• Elite skill needs a rework.  Catalyze your F5 (along the lines of what overloading does on tempest perhaps).

 

 

[Pheex.8932]

I wish there was more visual flair to it. Hammer Fire 1 and 2 just look like dagger 1, the lightning 5 is just another small spark with a circle outline, and just like all other weapons and specs for ele, I just miss the visual feast that a mage should bring to the table.

 

I want my skills to be a WOAH visually, but the earthquakes, volcanoes, whirlwinds and fireballs are visually so boring and underwhelming. Skills are not only meager in the visual department but also lack identity.

In 'other mmo's' skills are usually extremely visually identifiable, colorful, and have lots of particles and flair. In gw2 a meteor storm is just some orange smoke puffs falling down, the healing wells are just a blue colored circle with a tiny water effect in the middle, etc.

 

I'm very aware it's a personal, petty and shallow take on the class, but it's honestly how I feel.

[solemace.8427]

I was pretty excited about this spec after first seeing it in the guildchat and learning more about it was but now that I have my hands on it, it feels underwhelming. 

the idea that the elementalist will only stick to 2 elements depending on the range they would like to be from their target is shattered by the idea that extending your up time with the orbiters increases your damage output. But juggling them is a complete hassle. If you are trying to get a good rotation through the elements you must stand close. Also your timing has to be just right. Too early and skill 3 in earth and water might not be off cool down, too late and you lose all the orbs and even then you can time it just right so that you have all of them but cannot launch them because that skill is also on cool down. 

I understand that using grand finale consistently with all four of the orbiters is meant to be a reward for juggling them properly but the minigame is not fun when I'm constantly worried about it and suffer so much from failing it. Not to mention that the other skills themselves feel a under tuned. 

 

The utility skills are questionable I find myself leaning heavily on base ele to do a lot of the heavy lifting for the damage. I don't mind throwing down fiery greatsword but it would be nice if the weapon skills were useful enough for me to consider elemental celerity. On the topic of elemental celerity. It feels out fairly redundant on this spec. I'm already flipping element to element only sitting in each attunement for ~ 3 seconds in fear that I will lose all my orbiters and in turn my damage buff and my crit buff. If the most abilities have a cooldown of around 20 seconds and with a good amount of my spells having a reduced recharge by the time I get back to my 1st attunement my spells are either off cooldown or coming off cooldown in 3> seconds. 

 

The jade spheres are interesting as a support mechanic but don't really play into the general flow of the class when you are trying to deal damage. If that is intentional as to create a split in how the spec can be played that is interesting but with how slow the charge of the energy bar, how small the area feels and, how quickly I'm swapping elements I don't feel like I'm really given time soak up boon duration and then switch. In the guild chat it was mentioned you could use the sphere to channel a skill and then change attunements while that is happening to preform a certain type of combo and while I feel that it is achievable I also feel very restricted as to the order I want to be going through the elements. Maybe there is something to that about learning when and how to swap to get the blast finishers I want but the class feels like its moving at a breakneck pace already to weave that in there.

 

Overall I don't hate catalyst but I do think it could use some improvement and some breathing room. Watching top level players  squeeze other conjured weapons and just nail every single loop or rotation gives me a lot of hope in the class in its base form but as it stands it is very execution heavy and the reward is only decent. Slightly more time on the weapon skill 3 abilities would be appreciated being able to stack the duration instead of replace the duration would be neat so that clipping it is less of a dps loss and certain attunements could be strategically held for a longer time like like air and earth who threaten to eat your orbiters if you as much as look at weapon skill 2. 

[tashinglory.6912]

I love the idea of eles wielding hammer and I enjoy the concept of the wells... but the spec feels oddly... at odds with itself.
There are traits that synergize with auras... but not alot of ways to gain those auras from the Catalyst itself... a skill on earth hammer and then one leap on water hammer.... I feel like there should be far more combo finishers that give auras for there to be any traits that interact with auras on this spec... I could just take tempest or even weaver to play with auras better... or I guess play with dagger/dagger but part of me feels that the main spec weapon should lend itself to the traitline more than it does. (please just add some more leap finishers)
Another confusing aspect is the jade sphere wells. I spend the time to charge the well and then I deploy it at full power, hoping for the most payoff, thinking of what combos I want to use with the field... but then it switches based on your attunement and I lose the boon I wanted and any potential combos with that specific field. I think the wells might make more sense if whatever element you deployed it as, it stayed that element... or at least stayed that element longer. I drop the phoenix field and want to use all of my blast finishers on it for extra might, swapping attunements as an ele does rather than just camping one... I find it a less engaging form of play when, if I want to get the most bang for my buck on the new profession mechanic I just have to camp an attunement to get the boon/field I wanted. 

The utility skills also seem a bit counterintuitive or a little too specific to what exact field you have... The only augment that doesnt seem at odds with the whole 'jade well swaps based on attunement' thing is the elite, with its bonus being just a flat general 'if this is cast by any well gain a boon based on the attunement' (same disconnect happens on hammer 3's... you have to rapid attune swap to upkeep the skill get the most payoff... but then so does your well field and again there goes any sort of potential combo-ing you had in mind)

I love the ideas this spec has... but it does feel at odds with itself in several aspects... and also like alot of other feedback the energy meter should be far more visible, I'm sure its a work in progress thing but its very difficult to tell when its full, maybe a bar like celestial avatar above the health pool could be more informative? or some sort of audio/text indicator (like tempest dialogue when attunement is ready to overload). Hopefully this made some sense ><

[montecristo.1324]

I tested quickly in pvp and I still need some time to have a better view but for now I an say this:

 

UI the icon is ok, the energy no, it should be the size of Necro shroud or druid LF

Sphere I didn't use the sphere a lot to eh honest. It's nice but a minor thing compared to the kill you get with all the aura traits, I was just dropping it some time 

Aura traitline this is the thing that make this class viable in my opinion, is it enough to reach weaver? Se will see

weapons I played DD because I believe that the aura on combos is op so I wanted to play more combo possible, I think hammer is just PvE but maybe I'm wrong

Utility skills meh, I just used the block so I could play without obsidian flesh but the others are just PvE stuff

 

Overall it seems to me core 2.0, as I mentioned in the past, the sphere mechanic or the hammer 3 mechanic was better used in core ele to give it something is missing 

 

[Xephir.7635]

Hammer 3 skills should be instead given to attunement change, all previous elites had a mechanic involving attunement this one does not, feels like core ele. If you take hammer away what do you get? Same skills as core ele and an f5 mechanic, I would prefer to take any other trait than catalyst since it brings so little to the mechanics of ele.

[nishantjung.9763]

Here's my stance on Catalyst.

Pros

One main thing I like about the Catalyst is its representation of Elementalists in a new light where it can skillfully occupy mid-range areas combined with easy access to melee. While kinda counterintuitive for an orthodoxically spellcasting class, this gave another facet or flavor to the melee theme of Sword Weaver.

For another point, this is trivial and cosmetic/conceptual, but I love seeing more purely wind based skills with the hammer and utilities in that a lot of elementalist air spells heavily tend to prioritize the thunder/lightning theme. It was really refreshing to be able to use wind based skills more offensively than just the regular control focused. So that is definitely nice.

Cons

One main thing I do not like about Catalyst is that I don't really understand the theme/niche it is trying to occupy or represent. Tempests remind of storms  and make sense with the overloads and shouts that focus on AoEs. Weavers are a great example of harmony and being able to harness the power of multiple elements together, with dual attacks. Catalyst... is a melee bruiser? has jade spheres? Plus the way the skills play out makes it have little incentive to properly use the hammer or the spheres, for anything other than a few slight changes to playstyles.

Another rather minor thing I didn't quite like was the theme of the hammer skills for water which was primarily water based, same with the animation, instead of more ice based skills, which I feel like would suit the hammer better. There is definitely the inclusion, but I feel like a bit more would be nicer. I also feel like ice would suit a lot more in this regard since:

1. Ice based skills and animations make more sense, in the sense that, since water is melee for Catalyst, you harness the power of ice as a chunk with your hammer, also since there's "icebreaking" lol.

There are Chilling Crack and Icy Coil but it doesn't feel enough. The chain skill being entirely focused on ice would definitely suit the theme better, with perhaps focus on Vulnerability, if not Chilled (a chain like Icy Strike > Frigid Blow > Chilling Crack, for example) Perhaps a Blizzard based skill too instead of Crashing Font) or Cleansing Typhoon (Cleansing Blizzard?).

2. Hammer thematically also makes sense to be a bruiser, controlling weapon, so a better inclusion of chill would definitely suit it in that regard, which gives ice more sense.

Ultimately, some things definitely need more tweaking but others are rather minor.

Edited September 22, 2021 by nishantjung.9763

[Lord Meowalot.3690]

I've been having fun with it... but probably not the way it was intended to be played. I play 99% wvw and love both glass weaver and aura tempest so I tried to mimic those builds but with catalyst.

 

I kept d/f for tempest and picked all the aura traits then arcane brilliance, arcane wave, and the augment stun break (because of the low cooldown). This thing basically poops auras all over the place thanks to Elemental Epitome and all the access to finishers. The aura traits also synergize well with a hybrid build. But I haven't even tried hammer yet.

 

The jade sphere is completely underwhelming, as others have mentioned. Takes ten years to build up for an effect that is pretty much negligible. I barely even bother with it to generate combos for auras. I'd rather just use finishers on allies' fields. If you are dead set on keeping this mechanic, at least have it function like warrior burst and adrenaline. Energy build up should be quick and the fields on low cooldowns with high impact. You have kind of trapped yourselves with this though. If you increase sphere impact, you pretty much made ranged tempest overload except using energy instead of channeling.

 

The augments are otherwise inferior to other utilities. Honestly, there are so many skill types. I don't understand the need to create new types other than for flavor. Elite specs utilizing existing types then interacting with runes is one of the more interesting buildcrafting aspects. Why not give it wells, mantras, or symbols then introduce a rune for mantra/symbols?  If you keep augments, they need serious beefing up. If you insist on the mechanism that improves them based on sphere use, at least have them be improved when a jade sphere is deployed ANYWHERE much like how shades function.

 

Recommendation:

1. Let's keep energy since the concept is building it up for something big to happen. But now energy is built up through strikes, being struck, executing combos, and swapping attunements.
2. F5 triggers a temporary mode like Berserker's berserk mode.
   1. Within catalyst mode, stack 3 elements through quick swapping to get compounding effects that differ based on the swapping order.
   2. Order effects: Starting element - aura and boons, 2nd element: combo field and conditions, 3rd element: special effect on 600 radius high damage blast finisher. First two effects should be simple and intuitive while the 3rd effect is more unique. Sample: Earth - Magnetic aura + Protection, Fire - Fire field + burning, Earth - extra effect: pull 5 targets
   3. Catalyst mode grants unique boons based on the element it was activated in, such as increased ferocity if in Air.
3. Traits affect energy build up, effects on triggering catalyst mode (stunbreak, for example), and effects during catalyst mode.
4. Utilities should have combo fields and finishers. Or interactions that encourage combos like a unique boon that grants increase 3% increased damage for each combo finisher you execute within the time frame.

Edited September 22, 2021 by lordmeowalot.8135

[The Brainman.6217]

The catalyst got me really excited. A catalyst is something that speeds up reactions, so it is kind of an ampflifier that interacts with all the things you do.

 

The profession mechanic being essentially a free well every X seconds does not really live up to the idea. It only interacts with combo finishers and ele already has a lot of access to combo fields...

 

I honestly have to suggest a redesign here:

 

1. Turn the wells into utilities.

 

2. Replace the free wells by a fire/water/earth/air catalyst effect that either has a set duration or set number of usages.

 

3. Make the catalyst effect interact with wells AND weapon skills.

 

There is a lot of design space for 3. You could, for instance, do it like Mirage and make it change the auto attack depending on the type of catalyst. Yes, this would require the design of 16 new abilities per weapon. However, this is what makes an elite spec meaningful. We need mechanics that fundamentally change the playstyle. Right now, the EOD specs mostly feel like core + 1-2 extra buttons 😞

 

I truly believe that the presented concepts have potential. Please invest the time necessary to make them as good as the HOT/POF ones were. I would totally be willing to wait another 6 months, if this improves the quality.

Edited September 22, 2021 by The Brainman.6217

[Panda.1967]

So I’m going to say this… it’s not so much feedback on the catalyst but rather feedback on the format used to show off the spec in the guild chat stream…

 

next time DO NOT USE CHEATS FOR THE ENTIRE DEMONSTRATION!!! We need to see the actual flow of the spec as well… it is fine to enable your cheats to demonstrate what an ability can do, but it is important that you show it to us without as well. The guild chat stream made it seem as if the orb stuck around a lot longer than it actually does, hammer 3 seemed to have a significantly longer duration, and buffs from augments appeared to last twice as long as they actually do. Furthermore no part of the stream demonstrated just how abysmally slow we actually build up energy, he took a few swings to show energy is a thing, then auto filled the bar. The failure to properly demonstrate the spec has lead to a huge amount of disappointment once we actually got to test it out for ourselves and seen just how poorly it actually functions.

[Hemdale.1520]

augments - is there a point to them? short duration low damage modifiers with no survival benefit.

 

traits - very passive effects, could use some more synergy and alternative designs of profession mechanics (eh f5 design/energy)

 

f5 - Putting both energy and a cooldown on this mechanic feels too restrictive, choose which way to go and then add more versatility to it such as offering the freedom of repositioning without penalty. If energy is kept consider not having energy drain out of combat, giving more controlled ways of gaining it, and possibly adding more uses of it (elite skill?). side notes: clarifying how much is gained with each action would be helpful, if it does vary at all. Better ui display of bar.

 

hammer abilities - Could use more combo abilities. fire 4 could be a combo field and fire 5 feels very out of place being melee. Air 2 and earth 2 could be combo finishers. Earth 5 just feels like a reskin of fire 5, give them some distinctiveness. 3 orbs, too short of a duration and combo sending them could feel more impactful, could possibly add projectile finisher.

 

 

[HotDelirium.7984]

6 hours ago, Hubnoz.2407 said:

Ok, the idea of the Catalist is reaally good, but the execution is not. You have to work so much and keep track of so many things and the payoff is unexistent. The class mechanic does not work as intended and its preferable to play with another weapon instead of the hammer to make it work. And if I can't really use the sphere, and I can't use the new weapon why am I playing the spec?
 

Hammer:

Hammer skills are good and seems fun, but the cast time is awful, clunky and it has really low damage in PvP (didn't test it on PvE since ArcDPS is not working). As an example Earth 2 just locks you in the animation and you can't do much about it.

The only skill with a good cast time is the skill 3 which is a really good and fun idea, but it lasts for only 5 seconds so you have to work fast to get all 4 running for a really small buff and since you have to go fast you dont have time to cast the other skills since they have long cast times and lock you in the animation so you'll end up with all your attunements on CD for a patetic buff.

Since the whole mechanic of the spec consist in doing combo finishers to keep up the buffs and generate auras its a shame that Hammer only have 1 finisher per attunement and with a big CD attached to it, making it a unrealliable weapon to do that.

Solutions:

- I would cut the cast time in at least half so it can be less clunky or at least make the skills hit really hard since its a slow weapon.

- For the 3 skill i would up the duration to 10 or 15 seconds so we can take our time to cycle the elements and use our skills in the between and to have the cool mechanic of having orbs orbiting you while you fight.

- Maybe give some finishers on the skills with lower cds also, Air 2 and Earth 2 can be a Swirl finisher, Fire 1 and 2 can have a 20% projectile finisher as well.
- Earth 4 should have a longer duration so we can really use to block an attack on another element as intended (even Cal struggled with it on the presentation . . .)

- Since Ele is an squishy class and you plan on giving it a slow half melee half midrange weapon, it should be long range so we can stay out of trouble or the spec needs to have an realiable way to sustain or stay alive while using it (like Weaver can get bonus Vit and a lot of barriers). Otherwise we will only get insta killed in PvP and WvW.

 

Jade Sphere:

 

The concept is good but it should work like it was shown in the preview stream, without cooldowns and without energy. Since Catalist relly on combo fields giving it a permanent combo field would be a good idea, the CD would be applied so we can move it since its a small static field. Energy should be just deleted, Hammer is too slow to build it up and since it has no combo fields on itself you have to relly completly on the sphere to use your finishers. In the end of the day you wont have it up for 90% of the time.

Solutions:

- Remove energy, it doesnt do nothing and just make the sphere unplayable. Make it a permanent combo field so we can use the class mechanic as intended.

- The Sphere is static so it will be useless in PvP and WvW, make it so we can relocate it on a CD (and reduce it so it can be used on PvP enviroments).

 

Traits and Utilities:

 

The traits are a bit underwhelming  we got a lot of buffs that are kinda hard to upkeep and not rewarding to do so. Elementalists are always too hard to play and with no payoff (on PvE) the duration of the buffs is also a bit too short to be able to juggle them. This incentivise a fast paced rotation but since we got a slow weapon its doesnt feel good to play.

The bottom line with the traits focusing the sphere needs to be revised so they are more interesting.

The utilities are bad and bland, they should have more flavour since in pratical terms its almost impossible to use them inside the sphere, so we should get a bigger payoff for doing that.

The elite skill seems like a utility and not a good one. . .

 

Final Thoughts

The idea and concept of the spec is good and we have a good base that desperatly need changes so we can have fun with it. We know that giving a 2 handed weapon to the Elementalist was really charging on the team so most of the resources went into that. Its a beta and thats what betas are for, getting feedback to keep improving, so I hope that we can reach a fun and rewarding spec to play when EoD come out.
I believe that we all got sooo hyped for the catalist with the stream that people (myself included) got really disapointed when we got our hands on it.
I hope that you can power through the wave of negativity and salvage some good feedback to work on before the expansion comes.

Thanks for your attention and thanks for creating this amazing game we love to play ❤️

I love that idea. The trade off is get rid of it generating boons and have it be a perma combo field. We just need more combo finishers though. Skill 3 should be a projectile finisher if it isn't already. Honestly, all the hammer weapons should be combo finishers to go with the theme of the spec. The professional mechanic is built into hammering out a ton of extra combos.

[HotDelirium.7984]

28 minutes ago, The Brainman.6217 said:

The catalyst got me really excited. A catalyst is something that speeds up reactions, so it is kind of an ampflifier that interacts with all the things you do.

 

The profession mechanic being essentially a free well every X seconds does not really live up to the idea. It only interacts with combo finishers and ele already has a lot of access to combo fields...

 

I honestly have to suggest a redesign here:

 

1. Turn the wells into utilities.

 

2. Replace the free wells by a fire/water/earth/air catalyst effect that either has a set duration or set number of usages.

 

3. Make the catalyst effect interact with wells AND weapon skills.

 

There is a lot of design space for 3. You could, for instance, do it like Mirage and make it change the auto attack depending on the type of catalyst. Yes, this would require the design of 16 new abilities per weapon. However, this is what makes an elite spec meaningful. We need mechanics that fundamentally change the playstyle. Right now, the EOD specs mostly feel like core + 1-2 extra buttons 😞

 

I truly believe that the presented concepts have potential. Please invest the time necessary to make them as good as the HOT/POF ones were. I would totally be willing to wait another 6 months, if this improves the quality.

I like an alternative of the Augments having an additional effect per which jade sphere they are employed next to instead of NEEDING that one specific jade sphere. It can be simplistic like does extra damage gives extra healing or does a few seconds of a condi.

[yaminokami.9472]

The Jade sphere would benefit a lot from a trait that makes it move like a gyro and boost boon duration on you and an opposite one that let you drop it ranged and relocate it as long as you have energy while boosting boon duration on allies. 

[SkyCake.4216]

I'm still "early" in the beta testing. But, one of my biggest complaints from the e-spec so far is the Jade Sphere. It's really underwhelming in what it provides and slow-to-use. Being able to move it like Ventari's Tablet might be nice. Bigger AoE and better effects would also be nice. There could even be traits for it since the current ones are "meh" anyways. It 100% needs something in any case. 

The utility skills cast time feel a bit too long. You're incentivized to use them within the already awful sphere. With the cast time though, it feels like you're losing out on sphere-time. They're also not really that exciting. I did find the water one fun in certain situations. I pretty much instantly started enjoying the e-spec more when I switched them out. 

Similar to Harbinger, the UI to represent the e-spec's mechanic is also fairly boring and difficult to grab the information at a glance.  

Overall, I'm really enjoying Catalyst. I appreciate these betas and I'm hopeful that we will see some changes to Catalyst by Beta 4 because there are some fun and interesting ideas here. Definitely needs more time in the oven, though. 

[Pocket.2740]

36 minutes ago, Panda.1967 said:

So I’m going to say this… it’s not so much feedback on the catalyst but rather feedback on the format used to show off the spec in the guild chat stream…

 

next time DO NOT USE CHEATS FOR THE ENTIRE DEMONSTRATION!!! We need to see the actual flow of the spec as well… it is fine to enable your cheats to demonstrate what an ability can do, but it is important that you show it to us without as well. The guild chat stream made it seem as if the orb stuck around a lot longer than it actually does, hammer 3 seemed to have a significantly longer duration, and buffs from augments appeared to last twice as long as they actually do. Furthermore no part of the stream demonstrated just how abysmally slow we actually build up energy, he took a few swings to show energy is a thing, then auto filled the bar. The failure to properly demonstrate the spec has lead to a huge amount of disappointment once we actually got to test it out for ourselves and seen just how poorly it actually functions.

100% this.

It actually has me wondering, I’m sure the team didn’t use cheat modes whilst designing and testing the class out… right?!

Surely any player (not just those that play a lot of Ele) would immediately find frustration with some of the foundational flaws that currently exist with Catalyst.

Edited September 22, 2021 by Pocket.2740

[Lujuanji.7284]

I love the idea of Catalyst, but the execution is lackluster. Not liking it as much as I want to like it is really really bumming me out too. Here are a few critiques:

 

1. The energy bar UI is WAY too small. Something as obvious as Necro's shroud, Holosmiths' heat bar, or Druid's celestial power is a must.

2. Catalyst Energy generation and drain is horrible. Not a single thing in the entire elementalist tool kit can modify this either; and even if traits could modify it, it just means the catalyst would have to sacrifice something else... which at this point it cannot. Lastly, draining the entire bar when cancelling the jade sphere is extreme overkill. Its the cherry on the top that makes the centerpiece of this class pointless in basic open world content and highly mobile encounters.

3. The hammer is way too slow and even in full berserkers it kinda feels like you are slapping things around with a wet noodle. Not having a single combo field generation skill on ANY of the weapon skills is also overkill;' especially with how much this spec is supposed to highlight and rely on combo skills. This further exacerbates the problem in the majority of content other than PvP and some basic open world events when its required to lock down a point (and even when you can stay in one location, the jade sphere cannot even stay active through the majority of a fight since generating energy takes forever.

4. I think the traits are really cool and I like the idea of stackable buffs. However, getting 10 stacks of elemental empowerment is nearly impossible while using hammer and on your own. It pretty much means you cannot utilize ugments and must use a weird combination of arcane and conjuration skills. Throwing conjuration weapon skills into the mix just to generate fields for yourself while using hammer is just absurdly over complicated. Arcane skills while running Elemental Surge can proc a decent amount of stacks while attuned to earth. I think it should be difficult to maintain 10 stacks of Elemental Empowerment, but it should not be impossible and should last longer than 3-5 seconds. You can barely take advantage of the stat bonuses from empowered empowerment because the hammer weapon skills are just too slow. Its make this trait practically useless (though it may be easier to maintain in organized raids when everyone else is generating combo fields and aura's for you. Lastly, the Flame Jade Orb's damage should proc the Persisting Flame's strike damage increase buff (not sure if this is a bug or intended).

5. Augments feel cheap. They provide zero satisfaction for me, and the reward for squeezing them out in my rotation while not just in proximity of my jade sphere, but one of the exact element, is practically moot unless you can actually manage to stay in one place long enough to use more than one augment at a time. The elite skill is also subpar. The cd reduction is nice, but I think lower cds on hammer should be baseline for the Catalyst's kit. Also, other utility skills are leaps and bounds better than the augment skills and pair better with hammer skills.

 

Solutions:

1&2. Either get rid of the energy bar all together and make the jade sphere a cool down (this way it can at least benefit from alacrity), or greatly increase energy generation while also removing complete energy drain upon cancelling the skill. If it stays the UI also need to be much more defined and visible.

3. Hammer CDs and cast times need more fine tuning. Not sure exactly how, but the only skills that feel nice are the 3 skills and water and air 2 skill.

4. Core Elementalist needs greater trait synergy with Catalyst to help reduce the insane complexity of the its kit/rotation.

5. Augments could benefit from really any change to the jade sphere. The jade sphere needs a longer presence in battle for these to feel worthwhile, they also should do something to assist with generating stacks of elemental empowerment.

[Solaerin.8635]

Here are my main takeaways so far from playing Catalyst in PvP:

 

Hammer

• A lot of the hammer skills are really cool flavor-wise, but they are simply way, way under-tuned. I think the best example of this is Hurricane of Pain. This is a 3-second animation that you need to stow your weapon to get out of, and if you land every single hit of this attack you're only going to deal around 4k damage and 9 vulnerability. You can genuinely double both of these numbers and it wouldn't be overpowered given the animation lock.
• The hammer 3 skills are awesome, but they don't last long enough and the payoff for building them all up isn't strong enough. They currently last 5 seconds, but this should really be more like 8+ seconds. When you shoot a target with all 4 elements, it should feel like a really powerful attack, similar to using a bladesworn's dragon trigger with max flow, but it simply doesn't feel special at all.
• The spec is all about generating auras through combo finishers, but hammer doesn't have any combo fields. I think that it really needs short-duration combo fields, which could potentially fit on each of the 5 skills: Molten End can include a fire field, Cleansing Typhoon can include a water field, Shock Blast can include a lightning field, and Ground Pound can include a poison (or smoke!) field. These shouldn't be high duration, but just offer an opportunity to combo with other skills when Jade Sphere is not available.
• I feel like there's a major missed opportunity where the skills in this kit that make your character whirl around aren't whirl finishers.
• Wind Storm needs to cause Launch, not Knockdown.

Jade Sphere

• The Jade Sphere is underwhelming. Right now, it requires a decent chunk of time to build up energy to use it, on top of its cooldown; it has annoying 1-second cd's every time you swap attunements for some reason; you can't move it; and other than quickness, the boons are lackluster. Ultimately, it's just a combo field that ends up being difficult to plan for, because it changes every time you swap attunements.
• Why is "Recall Jade Sphere" even an option? It drains all of your energy to zero. Is this a bug? What sort of niche circumstances are you going to find yourself in where it's not a better option to just leave it out on the battle field if recalling it is going to sap all of your energy anyways?

Utilities

• None of utility skills are strong. Like, it's okay devs, you can make strong utility skills. You can even nerf them, if need be. But man, none of these skills would be particularly powerful even if you made the secondary benefit from standing in the Jade Sphere baseline. They just are not special at all.

Anyways, I don't want to be a negative nancy, there is a lot about Catalyst that I like. It just feels like a bit of a rough draft at the moment, where there's a lot of ideas and a lot of things going on, but none of them feel balanced to make jumping through the hoops worth the (lack of) payoff.

Edited September 22, 2021 by Solaerin.8635

[Vega.9014]

After spending the day with catalyst, I thought I'd share my thoughts on it in a more constructive, less melodramatic "Catalyst is an unmitigated disaster and needs to be completely scrapped and remade from scratch" way than many of the other posts on the subject.

 

Expectations

 

Elementalist was one of the last classes I tried as I was bored by the idea, but after taking Weaver for a spin about a year ago, it quickly became my favorite spec and it wasn't long before it was my main. In particular, I'm in love with the idea of having a very versatile, complex kit that rewards knowledge of your skills, build, and game mechanics by providing you with a tool for virtually any situation, provided you can anticipate what you'll need and when you'll need it. Based on the initial reveal and discussion surrounding Catalyst, it seemed the concept of this spec would emphasize those values and promote this high skill ceiling style of flexible play. Following the more in-depth look we got at it during Friday's stream I was even more optimistic - by providing on-demand access to specific boons, auras, and unique bonuses with properly attuned augments, on top of the stackable buffs to *all* attributes, Catalyst would surely promote diverse and dynamic gameplay. Hammer was out of left field, but it's a criminally underused weapon with some cool skins, and a slower, harder-hitting weapon would be a nice change of pace from the frenetic style of Weaver gameplay. Furthermore, the mix of midrange and melee weapon skills for it was yet another arrow pointing towards the "tool for every situation" spec of my dreams.

 

After trying it today, I, like many other ele players, am largely disappointed, but I think if given some love, it can come together into a unique and engaging elite.

 

The Good

 

Hammer

• Hammer animations are flashy and impactful.
• I found it really interesting that most of the hammer skills are paralleled between attunements. By looking at an ability in, say, air, you can have a pretty good idea of what the equivalent skill is when attuned to water. They're similar enough for it to be intuitive while each provides its own effects unique to the attunement.  
• Some fantastic individual skill designs: Air 2 as a ranged spin to win is a neat and relatively powerful skill. Water 4 is a shockingly good heal for a weapon skill. Earth 4 being a block that grants an aura based on attunement has great synergy with the concept of the class. The '3' skills are unique and synergetic *in concept*, and while I'll gripe about them later, with some minor tweaking these can be a compelling reason to use hammer.  
• Two-handed appreciation - more new skills than had they gone with something one-handed. This is always a positive in my book.

Jade sphere

• Quickness is quintessential for most party compositions and I approve of giving meaningful access to it to another class, especially one that has fallen a touch out of favor in group PVE content. 
• Resolution is too new for me to have strong feelings on, but in a meta where condition pressure is as intense as it is, this is the first potentially steady group source we've really seen for it and I'm eager to see if it pays off on support builds in PVP.  
• A long-term combo field that can be changed on demand and *also* provides auras when comboing is wonderfully harmonious with the concept of the spec.

Augments

• The fire augment is wildly strong and I thoroughly approve of having a source of unblockable attacks on ele.  
• Utility skills that have a decision making process when using them create interesting and dynamic gameplay. "Do I use it now for the primary effect, or do I make sure my sphere is up and I'm in the right attunement for the additional effect?" Asking this question both rewards anticipating needing the skill in advance and making adequate preparations to get the most out of it, while still allowing it to serve a diminished effect in a pinch.

The Bad

Hammer

• DPS feels low. Benchmarks thus far have made use of whirling projectiles from skill 3, summons, conjures, and condi utilities, but the hammer attacks themselves feel pitiful, especially in comparison to their impactful animations and slower speed, and especially the auto attacks.  
• Skill 3 circular projectiles are inconsistent and tend not to hit enemies with small hitboxes if in melee range.
• Skill 3 encourages swapping and making use of all elements, but the duration is too short to actually make use of the stronger skills in each attunement without quickness. This is the first of several mechanics that conflict with the concept of using the right attunement for the situation by instead promoting rushing through every attunement. This also makes it feel less distinct from Weaver's weave self, which also stacks attunement-specific buffs when attuning and encourages a time-sensitive cycle of attunements (but actually provides enough time to encourage getting the most out of the more powerful attunements before fully attuning to maximize buff duration).   
• Long cooldowns paired with weak auto attacks also promotes rapid cycling of attunements rather than staying in the attunement that the situation calls for.  
• Lack of combo variety. I'm glad to see a spec put such heavy emphasis on combos with the traits, but hammer has no combo fields (and ele has no utilities that create them), three blast finishers, and one leap finisher. I really wish there were more options for different types of combos, particularly skill 3 gaining more value as a projectile finisher.  
• Missing CC or immob options to synergize with the trait 2XX, which provides a elemental empowerment upon disabling or immobilizing a target. There are two CC skills on air, and an immob on earth, all of which have long cooldowns and are not enough to proc 10 stacks on their own.  
• Earth 4's block duration is extremely short, which not only makes it difficult to effectively block an attack with, but also makes it overly challenging to try to swap to a different attunement while it's active to get the aura you want from it.

Jade sphere

• Energy starting from 0 (or 10 if it was filled before the current fight) takes too long to build up for the sphere to see much use outside of boss fights, especially since the only way to start with that 10 energy is to fight to build it up and *not* use it, since either way when the sphere expires, you're left with no energy. I'd really like to see energy recharge over time outside of combat.  
• Energy resetting to 0 when manually recalling the sphere with no positive effect such as a reduction in cooldown is needlessly punishing.  
• A stationary field with 240 radius is *exceedingly* hard to get any significant value out of except in the few cases where the party can stack in one spot and stay there for the entire fight. Enemies moving or players having to move, either for survivability or to deal with mechanics, results in wasting the sphere. This is by and far my biggest gripe with the spec. To make matters worse, if the sphere is no longer serving its purpose in its current spot, your *best* option is to manually recall it, losing all energy and putting it on a 15-second cooldown. Not only does it make it a source of endless frustration during boss fights where your party is moving around, but it becomes almost entirely pointless to use in small fights against weaker enemies. I'd be *much* happier if the sphere had a wider radius and/or followed the Catalyst like engi gyros and/or was movable like Ventari's tablet on rev and/or had a shorter (or no) cooldown in addition to the energy mechanic. I could also see some of these changes being implemented into traits on the bottom line of boon support traits, but since it's the class mechanic, I'd be disappointed if it still didn't have meaningful effectiveness on all approaches to playing the spec.

Augments

• These are a really cool concept, but aside from the fire one, none of them can really compete with core utility skills.  
• The healing skill is a slow heal-over time that doesn't provide any substantial benefit over the "lump-sum" healing skills. Some interesting synergy would be, for example, providing an aura based on your attunement when you use it.  
• The elite skill only taking effect once per second with an 8 second duration, and only reducing cooldown on weapon skills, makes it a worse alac. I'd like to see more harmony with the spec's concept, such as preventing energy degeneration while active or having an increased effect on CDR for skills of the active attunement.

 

In summary, I feel like Catalyst has a wealth of potential and a fantastic concept, but as it stands, certain mechanics are at odds with that concept. In addition to prioritizing rapid cycling of attunements over carefully deciding the right attunement to be in at the current moment, the jade sphere has too small a radius, too long a cooldown, too slow an energy mechanic, and too little (zero) mobility to serve much use in the vast majority of fights. I sincerely hope that ANet learns a lot from this beta and is able to give this spec the care it deserves in order to become a distinct and rewarding spec to play when EoD releases.

[Fyrebugs.7348]

If the Jade sphere is to be a core part of the spec , I would remove the cooldown and energy limitation for it in BASE form (I will get to this later). It feels limiting and not a core part of the specialisation if its not available all the time. My suggestions are as follows :

 

- Make the sphere always castable and moveable without cooldown or energy cost. This would make it feel more dynamic and core to the class. You could send it to allies to aid them, or keep it for yourself to bolster your own power.

 

- Create a utility or a mechanic that expels the energy within the jade sphere, empowering the elemental within it as a way of spending energy. This could allow it to deal damage in fire, heal in water, apply stronger quickness in air etc etc. I feel that this would add an interesting gameplay interaction between building up energy and choosing to expend it at the appropriate time.

 

 

 

Edited September 22, 2021 by Fyrebugs.7348

[Lyanna.9875]

Unfortunately it feels like I thought it would when I saw the teaser image. 

 

Hammer is so so so slow even compared to staff (the only other two handed weapon that Ele has), same goes for the F5 skill.

 

Since I brought it up let's talk about the F5 skill a little more: 

it feels that the field, since it is a projected field by the Arcane Sphere it should be able to follow you around, static like that when the profession is both ranged and melee it is not good especially if you swap between the two.

 

The duration of Hammer 3 is really laughable. If you have to fight off a mob and use any other skill instead of H3 on all 4 attunements (with all their cooldowns) you don't have enough time to chain all 4.

Also the damage done on full celestial is very very very low even with all Elemental Empowerment traits. 

Weaver is a faster elite spec that feels more rewarding to use both in power and in rotation. 

 

I'll try it some more today and come back to you 😀