I just deleted my revenant [Beta Feedback] [Opinion]

[Arkham Creed.7358]

4 hours ago, Loules.8601 said:

What is that "flaws"?

The lowest overall build customization of any class in the game.

Weapons over-tuned to pair with specific legends and therefor lacking versatility.

Near zero synergy between legends.

Inability to use racial skills for role play reasons.

Overly heavy-handed enforcement of hybrid builds (I like playing hybrids, but I like playing them on MY terms). 

Generally clumsy and disjointed design, as if every aspect of the class, skills, weapons, legends, traits, resources, ect was designed in isolation with no thought given to how anything was supposed to work with anything else.

[Kidel.2057]

1 minute ago, Arkham Creed.7358 said:

Weapons over-tuned to pair with specific legends and therefor lacking versatility.

This is not true, at all. To the point that Sword/Sword is currently better on Vindicator.
 

2 minutes ago, Arkham Creed.7358 said:

Inability to use racial skills for role play reasons.

Yeah, a bit sad but Roy back in the day explained it's for technical reasons. And it must be true judging by the fact that build templates still make a mess of skill order.
I remember asking for the ability to use my Mistfire Wolf skill for fun and he was kind enough to explain it wasn't possible because of how Rev is scripted. 

I miss the times devs were active on the forums. 

[b k.1648]

26 minutes ago, Kidel.2057 said:

This is not true, at all. To the point that Sword/Sword is currently better on Vindicator.

To be fair, it is kinda true for some weapons. The Corruption trait line has a number of bonuses that significantly boost Mace/Axe, to the extent I wouldn't bother using those weapons without it. Running power builds without Devastation also seems pretty questionable, but you do at least get a better variety of weapons to consider.

[Edit: This is probably more of a weapon shortage problem than any particular design flaw. The base class could have used something like a wand and focus for additional condition damage options.]

The legends themselves are working fine for me, though. With a couple exceptions - Ventari feels rather cumbersome to play, and Archemorus/St Viktor needs work to bring it up to par.

Edited September 22, 2021 by Ben K.6238

[nerva.7940]

lol, deletes his main during a beta test 🤣😂. Such a drama queen. 

[tax.4086]

Revenant is top tier in every game mode as mentioned before. I have no idea what are you trolling about! The one and only reason I still play this game after 9 years is the Revenant. And if you claim to be a role-playing gamer and you don't utilize the most OP solo class in the game then I think you don't know this game's mechanics at all.

[yohoia.1850]

On 9/22/2021 at 12:53 AM, Kidel.2057 said:

Plus Urn is probably the worst skill I've ever seen in 9 years of playing this game. 

Agree!

[phokus.8934]

9 hours ago, nerva.7940 said:

lol, deletes his main during a beta test 🤣😂. Such a drama queen. 

And makes a post about it to boot.

[Seresibyl.2874]

9 hours ago, nerva.7940 said:

lol, deletes his main during a beta test 🤣😂. Such a drama queen. 

 

They didn't delete anything. 

 

Also, lol. "I decided to give it 3 strikes out based on the 1st 3 elite specs"; what a random mindset to adopt -- since it's been 4 years since it got its 2nd lol 

[Alistair.9786]

Kalla is literally the strongest spec in the game. That said she is kinda anet slamming a strong mechanic into rev to fix it. I wish they would add f3 and f4 skills for the other specs just like they did kalla. They gave her the only 10 man alacrity in the game and 2 extra skills for fun. Meanwhile herald is crying in not able to be a viable boon support and vindi really just needs all the love. It really feels like there was three teams working on the specs and the guys who did harbinger and bladesworn are going great if a little op (60k dps on bladesworn is not ok guys). The guys who did virt and catalyst are trying. The guys who did vindi and willbender need to up their game. 

[Kidel.2057]

8 minutes ago, Alistair.9786 said:

Kalla is literally the strongest spec in the game. That said she is kinda anet slamming a strong mechanic into rev to fix it. I wish they would add f3 and f4 skills for the other specs just like they did kalla. They gave her the only 10 man alacrity in the game and 2 extra skills for fun. Meanwhile herald is crying in not able to be a viable boon support and vindi really just needs all the love. It really feels like there was three teams working on the specs and the guys who did harbinger and bladesworn are going great if a little op (60k dps on bladesworn is not ok guys). The guys who did virt and catalyst are trying. The guys who did vindi and willbender need to up their game. 

Kalla is strong but is kind of meh lore-wise and basically has wells with flying cats inside. It's not "cool" (compare it to something like the Firebrand, the Reaper or the Herald). ANet simply buffed the numbers on Kalla so player likes it because it's strong. I seriously hope they don't repeat that on Vindicator. Ramping up numbers is not enough. 

That being said, Herald and Vindicator are 2 of the best looking specs in the game. So I do not agree with OP on the roleplaying side. 

And of course I agree with you 100%

Edited September 23, 2021 by Kidel.2057

[Arkham Creed.7358]

14 hours ago, nerva.7940 said:

lol, deletes his main during a beta test 🤣😂. Such a drama queen. 

Who said anything about this being my main? Hell I heavily implied in the OP that it was just an alt. 

Are all of you guys sure you're not actually guardian stans, because you seem really invested in protecting this class' virtue. 

[Crackmonster.2790]

On 9/22/2021 at 12:53 AM, Kidel.2057 said:

Vindicator definitely needs some vindication. 

We need a toggle (F3) to lock the skill loadout and prevent further flipover. 

Plus Urn is probably the worst skill I've ever seen in 9 years of playing this game. 

Urn, man... Become the URN! I laughed my kitten off when i read that skill.

[Lanz.7312]

On 9/22/2021 at 4:44 PM, Ben K.6238 said:

To be fair, it is kinda true for some weapons. The Corruption trait line has a number of bonuses that significantly boost Mace/Axe, to the extent I wouldn't bother using those weapons without it. Running power builds without Devastation also seems pretty questionable, but you do at least get a better variety of weapons to consider.
 

Not sure how that's a revenant problem. Of course the spec/legend related to condition damage wants to use the condition weapons. Every class works that way. Revenant only differs in that on top of spec and weapon focus, legends also have those focuses. All the classes' core specs are tank, support, power dps, condi dps, class mechanic. Revenent's specs are the same, and each legends reflects one of those specs (other than class mechanic, obviously). The only problem revenant has in this regard is having 2 legends geared to the same focus, but so far that's only a problem for non-elite dps, since renegade can do both, and herald can compliment anything. 

[Arkham Creed.7358]

12 hours ago, Lanz.7312 said:

Not sure how that's a revenant problem. Of course the spec/legend related to condition damage wants to use the condition weapons. Every class works that way. Revenant only differs in that on top of spec and weapon focus, legends also have those focuses. All the classes' core specs are tank, support, power dps, condi dps, class mechanic. Revenent's specs are the same, and each legends reflects one of those specs (other than class mechanic, obviously). The only problem revenant has in this regard is having 2 legends geared to the same focus, but so far that's only a problem for non-elite dps, since renegade can do both, and herald can compliment anything. 

The problem, as I see it, is that everything is too closely tied together. Most other classes have weapons that while fulfilling a role have more versatility to them, or they simply have a lot of weapons. As an example look at warrior and ranger; the it is true that the ranger's longbow is a power weapon, but there are ways to make it viable for a condition build. And the warrior just has so many weapons you can find something for any build. By contrast the revenant has everything bundled together too much. It isn't just that mace works best with the corruption line, it's that the mace is so weak for everything else.

And the developers realized this; originally the class didn't have weapon swapping. It was specifically designed to be the heavy class that didn't, as we have a light and med class that don't. But they realized early on that their weapons were designed to synergize too well with specific stances, and too little with the alternatives, making it nearly impossible to create a truly viable build WITHOUT weapon swapping. So they abandoned the original design and added it in as a band-aid fix, and simply never bothered to rebalance the weapons themselves. 

This is why I say that the revenant has the worst build-craft of all the professions; everything is too closely tied together. For example if you pick Shiro as your primary legend that means you're of course going to take Devastation; it'd be dumb not to. And since Devastation rewards you for A, applying vulnerability, and B, using an offhand weapon, of course you're going to take the only main hand weapon that applies vulnerability, and might as well add the only off-hand that also applies vulnerability. And all this strike damage means of course you're going to use a power based gear set. And that means your support/condition damage isn't going to be too strong, but you can get fairly decent defense stats as a secondary thing, and they don't need to be that high because of dodging. So of course you'll just go with a more defensive or utility based legend. Let's say Glint. Now Glint is all about spreading boons around, so of course you'll want shield as your secondary offhand. That forces you into a either sword of mace as your main-hand, but you're not at all built for conditions, so of course you'll just use sword again...

And there is the problem; it isn't just the weapons. If it was the class would be passable. But the weapons don't exist in isolation; they are part of everything else. And everything else is so firmly established in these "bundles" you're actually doing yourself a disservice if you don't use all of (or at least most of) a matching set. You don't craft a build at all really; you pick your primary legend and then everything else is a consequence of that. And because certain things have such a natural contrast you're actually punished for combining certain things. For example you could combine demon and dragon for the ultimate "effects" build, but now you're geared for group play, and in a group your party's strike damage is going to out race your condition damage to the point that you may as well not even bother. This means that eventually you're going to get tired of things dying before you even notice your conditions, and replace demon with something like centaur. Now you need more healing power so that changes your gearset, and that means your mace/axe is worthless so you grab the staff because it has healing orbs and therefor is the best choice with a healing power build...and you see we're in the same boat; you never actually get to pick your own playstyle. You have no agency over your build.

You pick a role and then EVERYTHING else comes bundled with it. You can't be a healer of your own, you have no choice but to be a centaur healer. You have to use those specific skills that specific way with their specific traits and the specific weapon. You can't play conditions how you want, you have to use demon stance and therefor have to use mace and axe. You can't play the power build you want, you have to use Shrio, and therefor have to use swords... Every other class in the game has more than three utility skills of a given type. If I want to play a trap ranger, or a glyph elementalist, or a banner warrior I have OPTIONS. But if I want to play a condition revenant I have no choice but to use demon stance with a mace and axe. And then later they did add Renegade stance, very condition capable, but that just means my choice of role now define BOTH legends and ALL my weapons, because of course you're going to pair mace/axe with the shortbow.  

Edited September 27, 2021 by Arkham Creed.7358

[otto.5684]

On 9/21/2021 at 11:45 PM, Roads.5130 said:

Deleting a character you had for so long after playing a BETA version of their new elite spec is certainly not a very well thought reaction 😂

Deleting a character you Had for so long is not a well thought reaction, period. Even if I do not think I will ever play that game again. I will just keep if I might decide otherwise.

Edited September 27, 2021 by otto.5684

[ScottBroChill.3254]

I kinda get what you mean. If you decide on one thing for a rev build (either legend, condi/power, or weapon) basically everything else is chosen without a choice and there are clear cut traits to grab while everything else is ignored. The other gripe with legends and stuff being too.. idk, flavorful around the legend as opposed to having a general flavor for rev, is that like you said none of the legends really fit together on a build in a feel good way. Like our two condi sets of mallyx/mace/axe and kalla/bow have totally different flavors and barely benefit from each other's traitlines outside of condi+ go big dps multipliers. You are right that the disjointed concepts are only being propped up by boosted numbers as opposed to synergy which is a big bugaboo.

 

I've totally felt what you are saying and have had those complaints since day one, but I've also found some cool things with revenant because of the way it is. Although i can faceroll in pve and not have to worry about pressing many buttons, pvp on rev is really fun and the active combat it provides is great. All it's varying cc's, i-frames, etc. can be used in a lot of different ways and figuring out how to string them together is pretty fun in my book.

 

Having said that, vindicator is in a wack spot right now. The flip skills are convoluted and unnecessary and just another hurdle to have to battle around. The skills are kinda bland and weak without conceptual flavor outside of the... questionable elite skills. The only reason it has the dual role, like both herald and kalla, is because core rev lacks any centerpiece to build around and like you said none of the core legends work together. So, each elite legend needs to be able to be paired with each of the core legends without any fuss. The issue comes about in that each elite spec is trying to accomplish the same thing and thus it's never a choice of what role or whatever I want to fill, it's more about which specs numbers are tuned the highest and just pick that spec and use it for any of the roles I want. Like  Renegade is a better healer, dps, condi dps, and support. So where does that leave herald? in a weird pvp only place because of the low energy, on demand stun break, and broken self heal. But it still doesn't feel like it has a role. 

 

I'm still keeping both my revs tho.

[Lanz.7312]

On 9/27/2021 at 2:01 PM, Arkham Creed.7358 said:

The problem, as I see it, is that everything is too closely tied together. Most other classes have weapons that while fulfilling a role have more versatility to them, or they simply have a lot of weapons. As an example look at warrior and ranger; the it is true that the ranger's longbow is a power weapon, but there are ways to make it viable for a condition build. And the warrior just has so many weapons you can find something for any build. By contrast the revenant has everything bundled together too much. It isn't just that mace works best with the corruption line, it's that the mace is so weak for everything else.

And the developers realized this; originally the class didn't have weapon swapping. It was specifically designed to be the heavy class that didn't, as we have a light and med class that don't. But they realized early on that their weapons were designed to synergize too well with specific stances, and too little with the alternatives, making it nearly impossible to create a truly viable build WITHOUT weapon swapping. So they abandoned the original design and added it in as a band-aid fix, and simply never bothered to rebalance the weapons themselves. 

This is why I say that the revenant has the worst build-craft of all the professions; everything is too closely tied together. For example if you pick Shiro as your primary legend that means you're of course going to take Devastation; it'd be dumb not to. And since Devastation rewards you for A, applying vulnerability, and B, using an offhand weapon, of course you're going to take the only main hand weapon that applies vulnerability, and might as well add the only off-hand that also applies vulnerability. And all this strike damage means of course you're going to use a power based gear set. And that means your support/condition damage isn't going to be too strong, but you can get fairly decent defense stats as a secondary thing, and they don't need to be that high because of dodging. So of course you'll just go with a more defensive or utility based legend. Let's say Glint. Now Glint is all about spreading boons around, so of course you'll want shield as your secondary offhand. That forces you into a either sword of mace as your main-hand, but you're not at all built for conditions, so of course you'll just use sword again...

And there is the problem; it isn't just the weapons. If it was the class would be passable. But the weapons don't exist in isolation; they are part of everything else. And everything else is so firmly established in these "bundles" you're actually doing yourself a disservice if you don't use all of (or at least most of) a matching set. You don't craft a build at all really; you pick your primary legend and then everything else is a consequence of that. And because certain things have such a natural contrast you're actually punished for combining certain things. For example you could combine demon and dragon for the ultimate "effects" build, but now you're geared for group play, and in a group your party's strike damage is going to out race your condition damage to the point that you may as well not even bother. This means that eventually you're going to get tired of things dying before you even notice your conditions, and replace demon with something like centaur. Now you need more healing power so that changes your gearset, and that means your mace/axe is worthless so you grab the staff because it has healing orbs and therefor is the best choice with a healing power build...and you see we're in the same boat; you never actually get to pick your own playstyle. You have no agency over your build.

You pick a role and then EVERYTHING else comes bundled with it. You can't be a healer of your own, you have no choice but to be a centaur healer. You have to use those specific skills that specific way with their specific traits and the specific weapon. You can't play conditions how you want, you have to use demon stance and therefor have to use mace and axe. You can't play the power build you want, you have to use Shrio, and therefor have to use swords... Every other class in the game has more than three utility skills of a given type. If I want to play a trap ranger, or a glyph elementalist, or a banner warrior I have OPTIONS. But if I want to play a condition revenant I have no choice but to use demon stance with a mace and axe. And then later they did add Renegade stance, very condition capable, but that just means my choice of role now define BOTH legends and ALL my weapons, because of course you're going to pair mace/axe with the shortbow.  

 

Revenant does have more weapon specialization than other classes, it's true, but I think that's just a consequence of the evolution of their design, since it's also how all the elite specs work. At launch some weapons always emphasized some builds over others, but it was a lot more nebulous. Same with the traits themselves. Since then that has all become a lot more organized and focused, and Revenant is a class that came after they had learned some of those things. At the end of the day, weapon choice is a gimmick in most cases. There usually isn't a really good reason to use a weapon in a build that doesn't suit it except for fun. But that said, revenent does have a bit of flexibility in this regard, too. Shortbow renegade can be condi or power, and most revenant offhands can work with power or condi. 

But as I said, the trait building is still pretty much the same as any class. If I'm taking a sword as a mesmer, I'm going to go duelist. If I'm going hammer on warrior, I'm going strength. If anything, the other classes are far more explicit in this regard than revenant, because they pretty much all have at least one spec that gives a reduce-cooldown primary trait to a specific weapon, which effectively becomes a must most of the time. Revenant lacks that aspect in most of their specializations. 

 

Otherwise most of these restrictions are still true of most other classes. If you're going to be a support/healer of any class, there will be key traits, utilities and weapons that compliment that focus, and you'll be expected to use them if you want to be worth your slot. Like you're not going to play a condi build of any class and use weapons that don't apply damaging conditions. It just doesn't work. And most classes will, like Revenant, have pretty much a pair of weapon sets that will compliment that damage focus, and nothing else. You aren't going to take a longbow as a condi ranger, you're going to take a shortbow, etc. 

All the classes have these restrictions and combos in place, the only thing revenant is really doing differently is it has one more layer of matching qualities to REALLY stress the combos, while lots of other classes have less focused utilities. And most other classes have plenty of useless utilities as a consequence. I don't think any utility of any of my legends doesn't see use when it's needed, but I doubt I touch even half the utilities for most of my other classes. Nevermind the elites, which are pretty much just another utility for revenant, and are completely hit-or-miss on other classes. 

Once again, you see all the revenant design logic reflected in the elite specs especially. You're expected to pair specific utilities, specific weapons, and specific specializations all together as a fixed package, and they synergize very heavily, often depending on each other to even function. Revenent just has this concept down to its core, instead of having half their abilities as ambiguous maybe-usefuls that may or may not fit any given playstyle. 

[Justine.6351]

I would delete my rev but I would have to login.

[Catchyfx.5768]

Well I have to say, I tried scrapper for lab. event, and so much utility, and everything just worked great. Started thief and guard in wvw and also, so much options. And I figured out that on rev, i have rly small utility, kinda meh traitlines(if compared to thief,guard,engi) and im stuck to 4 sets i have to use, even if I want only 1 skill.  On DH, I can change 2 traits and 2 utilities, same playstyle but completely diferent role.

 

And I think rev have to be pain in the kitten, for devs also. As mentioned above, every elite have to be compatible with all of them. So they just cannot go like with other classes and create somethin unique, they have to deliver something jack of all trades, to work with the rest, I would bet, that if they would have time and resources, they would rework rev completely.

 

Least pleayed class for a reason. We got saved by hammer backline in wvw and renegade in instanced pve, otherwise we would have been nonexistant in the charts.

[Telgum.6071]

12 hours ago, Catchyfx.5768 said:

Well I have to say, I tried scrapper for lab. event, and so much utility, and everything just worked great. Started thief and guard in wvw and also, so much options. And I figured out that on rev, i have rly small utility, kinda meh traitlines(if compared to thief,guard,engi) and im stuck to 4 sets i have to use, even if I want only 1 skill.  On DH, I can change 2 traits and 2 utilities, same playstyle but completely diferent role.

 

And I think rev have to be pain in the kitten, for devs also. As mentioned above, every elite have to be compatible with all of them. So they just cannot go like with other classes and create somethin unique, they have to deliver something jack of all trades, to work with the rest, I would bet, that if they would have time and resources, they would rework rev completely.

 

Least pleayed class for a reason. We got saved by hammer backline in wvw and renegade in instanced pve, otherwise we would have been nonexistant in the charts.

What am I reading? Thief having more options than Revenant on WvW? 90% of the thieves you see on WvW are D/P and P/D DD and Core, and are limited to stealth and run gameplay.

Revenant on zergs can either be herald hammer backline or boon stripper renegade, depending of the situation, and having infinitely more utility than any imaginable thief build.

Revenant on roaming can either go assassin herald, core bunker, renegade bunker, condition and even hybrid damage. Everything works. And since you are mentioning Guardian, I don't wanna say Revenant is better, but again I observe very little utility and variety from the Dragonhunters I see when I roam.

I will never understand why the people on this subforum insist on Revenant being so bad and with very little use when it's simply not true.

[Catchyfx.5768]

4 hours ago, Telgum.6071 said:

What am I reading? Thief having more options than Revenant on WvW? 90% of the thieves you see on WvW are D/P and P/D DD and Core, and are limited to stealth and run gameplay.

Revenant on zergs can either be herald hammer backline or boon stripper renegade, depending of the situation, and having infinitely more utility than any imaginable thief build.

Revenant on roaming can either go assassin herald, core bunker, renegade bunker, condition and even hybrid damage. Everything works. And since you are mentioning Guardian, I don't wanna say Revenant is better, but again I observe very little utility and variety from the Dragonhunters I see when I roam.

I will never understand why the people on this subforum insist on Revenant being so bad and with very little use when it's simply not true.

It is just my feeling, man, it doesnt have to be right to you, I just feel like I can more theorycraft and play with utilities, because we cannot. thats it.

[Obtena.7952]

4 hours ago, Telgum.6071 said:

I will never understand why the people on this subforum insist on Revenant being so bad and with very little use when it's simply not true.

Oh ... that's an easy one ... because no matter HOW good or bad something is, someone always thinks they got a raw deal and deserve better. Anyone complaining about Rev performance in ANY game mode simply doesn't have the broad experience to make that judgement ... or they have an agenda. 

Rev's aren't a have-not class and to be fair, the OP has done the right thing in not playing classes he doesn't like, though I don't support the idea he has that Rev has so many problems that it's not good to play. That's simply a personal preference. 

Edited October 19, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[Aeolus.3615]

On 9/23/2021 at 12:17 AM, Arkham Creed.7358 said:

The lowest overall build customization of any class in the game.

Weapons over-tuned to pair with specific legends and therefor lacking versatility.

Near zero synergy between legends.

Inability to use racial skills for role play reasons.

Overly heavy-handed enforcement of hybrid builds (I like playing hybrids, but I like playing them on MY terms). 

Generally clumsy and disjointed design, as if every aspect of the class, skills, weapons, legends, traits, resources, ect was designed in isolation with no thought given to how anything was supposed to work with anything else.

It is actuaslly the class with more build diversity in the game :O

Theres decent  sinergy between legends!

Racials skills... only norn ones will get u carried :P  heheh

 

[Catchyfx.5768]

I never said that rev is bad, or it does not have builds, I just said that on other proffesions i feel like i have more options. Thats all. I didnt expect this tornado.

 

I like this class, i know it have its streghts and weaknesses. Nobody is crying here about rev is weak pls buff.

[GlowingMoth.1063]

On 9/23/2021 at 1:17 AM, Arkham Creed.7358 said:

The lowest overall build customization of any class in the game.

Weapons over-tuned to pair with specific legends and therefor lacking versatility.

Near zero synergy between legends.

Inability to use racial skills for role play reasons.

Overly heavy-handed enforcement of hybrid builds (I like playing hybrids, but I like playing them on MY terms). 

Generally clumsy and disjointed design, as if every aspect of the class, skills, weapons, legends, traits, resources, ect was designed in isolation with no thought given to how anything was supposed to work with anything else.

so if i understand correct- you're talking about revenant as a whole here, right?

The lowest overall build customization of any class in the game. - 100% agree. BUT to trade it off / compensate alot of the builds that is popular is popular for a reason, they're very strong in all gamemodes + alot of the customization comes from traitlines & weapons

Weapons over-tuned to pair with specific legends and therefor lacking versatility. - disagree, but not sure i understand. imo it doesn't lack versatility, cause you can do so much with rev weapons. staff for evades, spam 1 for free heals, sword 4 sets up immob + vulnerabilty, sword 5 lets you teleport & also do 4,5k dps at least. sword 3 evades, sword 2 puts the most annoying condition ever in WvW and PvP aka chill.

mace aoe skills, axe cc + teleport (yes a lot of teleporting on revenant)

shortbow has cc, dps and slow (slow is a really good cover condi, almost as good as chill.)

Near zero synergy between legends. - Don't agree and here is the reason why; first off, if you look at traitlines you can already here synergeise all the legends (provided you have at least 60+iq) , for example;

Devastation w / shiro

Retri w/ dwarf

salv w/ centaur

corruption w/ mallyx

invo being must pick spec usually cause of how it effects legend swapping.

ok, so now we have:

Herald

Renegade

Vindicator

Herald - one of the best roaming class since pof offhand rework (and even before that) for PVP, had /until recently nerfed) the best hand kite build, that would take 0 dmg basically cause of how resitance used to work.

Renegade - a must pick elite spec for any raid or fractals for alac, has broken damage in WvW (since stuff is unnerfed there) and and decent in pvp.

vindicator - HAS potential but needs to be reworked a bit. i can definetly for now see it as a barrier spammer for raids & fractals and bunker/teamfighter in pvp.

 

Inability to use racial skills for role play reasons. - no comment, i dont rp

Overly heavy-handed enforcement of hybrid builds - disagree, reffering to one of the first poinst i made with the traits. if anything i think its forcing you to play only 1 sided and with that i mean most of the "hybrid" builds are dog and nobody plays it other than "theorycrafters" who thinks its good but are mechanically very bad on rev (pvp PoV here since i dont play alot of wvw/PVE)

Generally clumsy and disjointed design, as if every aspect of the class, skills, weapons, legends, traits, resources, ect was designed in isolation with no thought given to how anything was supposed to work with anything else.  - nothing is clumsy on rev, other than smal bugs like sword 3, sword 5 desync bug and the fact that you can rupt f2 mid cast (that kittens most of the revs over)

should add i didn't read context, or the posts before this just saw this and had to write.

Edited October 31, 2021 by La belladone.6579