Why do we have a mentality to nerf everything?

[jpsssss.7530]

Why are we all focused on nerfing everything? Why not BUFF the underperforming classes? When was the last time something was buffed in ANY meaningful way? If we keep nerfing everything, we might as well get a pool noodle costume brawl game mode where there's no damage, no CC and scrap PvP altogether...

[Lord of the Fire.6870]

It sad but people want builds under the level what vanilla builds could do. Well the real truth is a bit different Arena.NET goes hardly goes back when something is not right but instead nerfing everything around it.

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

"The Mob" is not always saying the same thing. 

There's three major mobs.

1.) Nerf attack / Spec x, even though the specs damage blatantly telegraphs itself / is completely dodgeable or mitigatable with  limited to moderate adjustment to build.

2.) Nerf attack / Spec x,  which is not easily dodgeable or avoidable / has limited or no telegraph, but still does damage comparable to 1.) 

3.) Nerf all damage/There's too much everything .
 

Ideally, 3 should be ignored, 2 should be listened to more often, and 1 least often.  That would give rapid damage/AI/stealth builds a tap down, and make failing to dodge key mores/telegraphs rewarding. Blatant, visible moves should have the heavy damage, the invisible setups should have less damage.

We are here because people listened to 3 and ignored 2, or decided to lay a new foundation for balancing which involved reducing damage levels for everyone, then didn't finish the buffing, whichever way you want to see it. 

Sometimes the mob is right and builds are throwing too many things at them for their class of choice to be able to handle it. Sometimes, however, the mob needs to learn to dodge so they don't end up hitting each other with sticks. 

This isn't the fault of any one particular group of people. It is the end result of either not finishing what was intended to be done, or listening repeatedly to the wrong people. 

 

 

[Vancho.8750]

36 minutes ago, jpsssss.7530 said:

Why are we all focused on nerfing everything? Why not BUFF the underperforming classes? When was the last time something was buffed in ANY meaningful way? If we keep nerfing everything, we might as well get a pool noodle costume brawl game mode where there's no damage, no CC and scrap PvP altogether...

Scrapper got AoE quickens which is nice, but for some reason almost no one plays it, which is weird considering it will roll over the minion mancer that everyone is screaming about. Maybe in a few months someone will discover "the build" and we will end up in another cycle ou boy this is OP as kitten. 

[Khalisto.5780]

sadly i think this is the best way

 

at the pace we get updates, buffing something usually turns into a 5 months of 4 of class X in every ranked game

 

we need 4 to 6 weeks max updates

 

oh i overbuffed berserker, ok, it may not be in this patch cuz it's new, but you know it won't get past 2 month

[Multicolorhipster.9751]

Most the people that would have said otherwise probably quit sometime in the past ~2 years that they've been forced to play in it. 

[Kuma.1503]

1 hour ago, Vancho.8750 said:

Scrapper got AoE quickens which is nice, but for some reason almost no one plays it, which is weird considering it will roll over the minion mancer that everyone is screaming about. Maybe in a few months someone will discover "the build" and we will end up in another cycle ou boy this is OP as kitten. 

I make posts here every once in a while where I share assorted core/scrapper builds. They haven't caught on yet. 

 

Heal Scrapper makes an excellent partner with Water/Earth Tempest (Prot Auras) and Reaper. 

Prot Tempest covers your natural weakness against power builds by giving the team AoE prot, and you cover the tempest's weakness by rendering condi builds irrelevant in teamfights. 

Reaper with superspeed gets to run people down in shroud and there's nothing they can do about it. Then when they drop shroud the quickness will linger for 10+ seconds so the pressure just keeps rolling. 

Quickness ghastly claws, quickness spinal shivers, quickness lich autos... All it takes is one popular streamer or one MAT team to popularize it and the cries for nerfs will begin.  

 

Edited September 24, 2021 by Kuma.1503

[Vancho.8750]

2 minutes ago, Kuma.1503 said:

I make posts here every once in a while where I share assorted core/scrapper builds. They haven't caught on yet. 

 

Eventually people will realize how absurd reaper is with perma quickness and superspeed in and out of shroud 

PFF you don't even need the Reaper , power scrapper and run down who ever you pick, shredder and purge gyro and its GG bonk patrol. Everyone talks about Prot holo like is the best kitten ever , but it seems that they have not seen scrapper in action in allot of time.  

[Shao.7236]

People ask for buffs, typically you get the same reaction. "You main X class, your class is OP and doesn't need it." Type of response.

[Kuma.1503]

35 minutes ago, Vancho.8750 said:

PFF you don't even need the Reaper , power scrapper and run down who ever you pick, shredder and purge gyro and its GG bonk patrol. Everyone talks about Prot holo like is the best kitten ever , but it seems that they have not seen scrapper in action in allot of time.  

Power Scrapper is really good, but I don't think it falls into broken territory yet. The impact savant nerf did a lot to keep it in line. 

Shredder + Purge means you lack sunbreaks, but it does have the potential to burst people down if they don't respect it. 

 

 

 

[jpsssss.7530]

3 hours ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

"The Mob" is not always saying the same thing. 

There's three major mobs.

1.) Nerf attack / Spec x, even though the specs damage blatantly telegraphs itself / is completely dodgeable or mitigatable with  limited to moderate adjustment to build.

2.) Nerf attack / Spec x,  which is not easily dodgeable or avoidable / has limited or no telegraph, but still does damage comparable to 1.) 

3.) Nerf all damage/There's too much everything .
 

Ideally, 3 should be ignored, 2 should be listened to more often, and 1 least often.  That would give rapid damage/AI/stealth builds a tap down, and make failing to dodge key mores/telegraphs rewarding. Blatant, visible moves should have the heavy damage, the invisible setups should have less damage.

We are here because people listened to 3 and ignored 2, or decided to lay a new foundation for balancing which involved reducing damage levels for everyone, then didn't finish the buffing, whichever way you want to see it. 

Sometimes the mob is right and builds are throwing too many things at them for their class of choice to be able to handle it. Sometimes, however, the mob needs to learn to dodge so they don't end up hitting each other with sticks. 

This isn't the fault of any one particular group of people. It is the end result of either not finishing what was intended to be done, or listening repeatedly to the wrong people. 

Honestly I think too many people don't understand things (thus they're in group 3). The number of people that walk up to a flamethrower scrapper 1v1 is too kitten high...

[Blood Red Arachnid.2493]

In large part it is Anets current balance philosophy.  They wanted to reduce the powercreep from the e-specs, so they cut everything down in damage and duration.  With this, the paradigm flipped for the games population as a whole.  We call nerfs as a way to say "hey, you didn't nerf everything enough to curb the power creep."  

[Paradoxoglanis.1904]

Anet wont change class design which is power crept like crazy, so they nerf coefficients because its the only thing they can do.

[Pimsley.3681]

3 hours ago, Kuma.1503 said:

Power Scrapper is really good, but I don't think it falls into broken territory yet. The impact savant nerf did a lot to keep it in line. 

Shredder + Purge means you lack sunbreaks, but it does have the potential to burst people down if they don't respect it. 

 

 

 

 

I dont think power scrapper is anywhere near broken territory. Mesmer, ranger, thief, FA can counter it easily. Also a power reaper with full LF can easily out damage and out CC this build as they have quickness, stab, fear, chill and very high damage. Biggest mistake I see people do on this build is not leaving the kit and lack of combos. 

[Disney.7826]

Because nerfing one spec is easier than buffing 26 others.

[Valik Shin.9027]

11 hours ago, Pimsley.3681 said:

 

I dont think power scrapper is anywhere near broken territory. Mesmer, ranger, thief, FA can counter it easily. Also a power reaper with full LF can easily out damage and out CC this build as they have quickness, stab, fear, chill and very high damage. Biggest mistake I see people do on this build is not leaving the kit and lack of combos. 

broken? probably not but being able to just hit 1 on flame thrower with perma stab, decent survivability and still do 3k damage a second is kinda kitten

[Vancho.8750]

The problem is that they created came full force with PoF reworks on core specializations and skills along side PoF elite mechanics, so they nerfed numbers and boons, but mechanics stayed the same. So the stat stick professions with meh mechanics got ran over, warrior as example( it came back swinging with the heal breaker but that is again from the tactics rework, it got nerfed quite quickly though even more so than it had to be nerfed ) , and the specs that had kitten mechanics still stayed even though their numbers got butchered, our friend mirage here, some got off scot free Ranger, Rev( that even unlocked its second elite for pvp) and Engi(this one got a full trailine rework and it skipped the heavy nerf bat for a long time, then they nerfed all the numbers around the problem, but not the problem itself). We have allot of mobility creep added on Soulbeast(birbs and kitten or whatever) , Rev (porty pooper sword rework) and thief( no one can catch this boy right here even after all the clunka dunk nerfs).

We are in period of high deflation and after the February patch the game was supposed to receive reworks, buff and nerfs, but the expansion became focus and they dropped everything so now we still have 300s cd traits, cc still don't do damage and their PVE DPS increase reworks started popping out of the woodwork (Burn guardian). 
So people got their cheese toys broken and now they have to play the game instead of the Wild west that was before, and the cycle started, some were reasonable the Knight amulet thing where ranger and engi could abuse it since they were outputting good enough damage already, then was the burn DH thing that got nerfed wrongly since it needed rework and not butchering, to be fair though the flailing guardian one shots were stupid, then healbreaker like I mentioned above got butchered since warrior should sit on sidenodes, but only sometimes not always. Now on the agenda is Necro( but people don't know what is wrong with it so everything must go like warrior), the kicker here is that necro for some reason has working skills and traits (not a single 300 s cd one ) all trailines work and there is no passive defense procs on it , Lich basic attack is still kitten(everything else on it is kinda kitten though) ,Scourge and minion mancer are kinda kitten because how their abilities work, but that kitten needs a rework not nerfs.  The game needs functional changes, the number changes either do nothing or delete stuff.

People just want to YEET it and delete it , but the pitch fork peasants still don't understand that their MAIN is next after the something gets nuke out of existence .

The best part here is that we spent our time in this slog with expectations about the new elite specs , and the shitstorm was unlocked, cause it seems that they were made last month and that year and half was spent faffing about. The whole SLOG was for nothing , all trade offs no pay offs like the elite specs.  

[Multicolorhipster.9751]

15 hours ago, Filip.7463 said:

Because nerfing one spec is easier than buffing 26 others.

Oh yes. Totally seems more difficult than nerfing 63 different specs total, removing a bunch of build options, over 30 different profession mechanics, and more weapon and utility skills than I could count on my hands and toes if I had 4 clones.

 

I'm very glad we opted for the easy way rather than being impossible and doing something as asinine as buffing the underplayed.

[Vancho.8750]

29 minutes ago, Multicolorhipster.9751 said:

Oh yes. Totally seems more difficult than nerfing 63 different specs total, removing a bunch of build options, over 30 different profession mechanics, and more weapon and utility skills than I could count on my hands and toes if I had 4 clones.

 

I'm very glad we opted for the easy way rather than being impossible and doing something as asinine as buffing the underplayed.

You know if they nerf enough stuff, I might get Great build for berserker for like a week before they nerf it again.