Missed Opportunity - Dynamic Events - Rant

[usernameisapain.7163]

Returning player here. 

Played GW2 since launch, and had a long break, but I am returning now after a couple of years since we'll be seeing the Cantha expansion next year. 

 

Upon launch Dynamic events were a lot of fun, and I'd argue that they still are, but there were a lot of complaints back in the day that they weren't comprehensive enough and lacked consequence. This was not something that was ever addressed nor did dynamic events ever receive much, if any, love from the devs.

 

Fast-forward; I return to the game to see that the skill system is very different, and of course we now have elite specs. However from rolling a new alt, I see the same ol' dynamic events and hearts, with no changes or additions. I think this is a real shame really. 

Dynamic events could be so much more, they could be map-wide, if not cross-map wide, they could have consequences on npc's and dungeons. It is a They could have NPC's actually "sleep" during night, and have different npc's out and about activating different dynamic events & hearts altogether. 

I lament at this, since I think that the dynamic event system is great, but completely underutilized, it is a PVE tool that could add a ton to RP and just PVE activities in general. It doesn't help that most of the gear/items gained are either RNG bags, or completely useless, in this respect OG-GW had cool loot drops, something that could also be added to dynamic events. 

I'm hoping that we'll see this more used in the new expansion, I hope that with Luxon vs Kurzick we'll see dynamic events that will turn zones into temporary pvp zones in the fight for supremacy. 

Anyhow rant over!

[Funky.4861]

1) Keep pvp out of pve.

2) Cross-map dynamic events would be a disaster and a waste of dev time. It seems like you want them to be basically like world bosses in the sense that lots of people would be attracted to them, but what for? The rewards are barely worth the participation anyway- most people do them for the exp to level a toon or for some collection item progress.

[Danikat.8537]

They haven't done it across the entire game but there are maps which work exactly like this. I think part of the reason they don't do it in a lot of core maps, especially low level ones, is because then those event chains dominate the map and everything revolves around them which would be very confusing for new players.

There's actually been some in the game since launch: the Orr maps, where control of the temples affects everything around them. Originally it used to work across maps too - controlling a gods temple affected their statues (and the surrounding area) across all of Orr, but that had to be changed when the megaserver system came in and now each temple affects the area around it, but the effects are still the same - Orr is nearly impassable when the temples are under enemy control and relatively safe when under Pact control.

Dragon's Stand is probably the most extreme example where literally the entire map is devoted to one event chain (which you'll need to do at least 3 times to see all of it, because there's 3 different paths to take), most of it isn't accessible without progressing the meta event chain and as you go along areas which used to be full of corruption and enemies become safe camps, hidden areas and allies are revealed and new things to do are unlocked.

All the other HoT maps also have large meta-events which go across the entire map and affect the status of different areas. Verdant Brink's one also ties into the day/night cycle. Other examples of map-wide meta events are Southsun Cove, Silverwastes, Draconis Mons and Dragonfall. Then there's a lot with meta-events which aren't strictly map wide but affect very large areas and tie into everything within that area, like Bjora Marches which has two seperate meta-events (one in the east, one in the west) and The northern half of The Desolation. Or there's maps where the meta-events aren't strictly all tied together but they're all part of the same storyline and succeeding or failing on all of them makes a big different to what you can do there, like Lake Doric or Thunderhead Peak.

I haven't listed all of them because I'm not sure I can even remember them all and it would take a long time to look it up, but basically get to level 80 and move beyond the low level maps and you'll find what you're looking for. Silverwastes is probably the easiest to start with because it's available to everyone, the event isn't on a timer so you don't have to worry about knowing when it will start and it's very popular so there's a good chance you'll end up on a meta-event map just by going there. But for Silverwastes and all the others it also helps to use the LFG tool to find a copy of the map where players are actively working to complete the event, because you'll need a lot of people to get it done.

[costepj.5120]

36 minutes ago, usernameisapain.7163 said:

They could have NPC's actually "sleep" during night, and have different npc's out and about activating different dynamic events & hearts altogether. 

Sounds exactly like Verdant Brink (minus the hearts).

[Cuks.8241]

Hot maps and some of the later maps have what you are talking about. I am not sure you saw those already. The events are quite linear though but they are map wide and require lot's of people. They are done regularly and are on timer so you know when to join (https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Event_timers). Check LFG to find map instance on which events are done.

Hot maps especially excel in this. Verdant brink has day phase when you prepare the outposts and night phases when you defend them and at the end kill bosses. Auric Basin and Tangled Depths have the preparation phase or the normal state of the map when you upgrade friendly outposts and the big meta even phase (these are on timers which you can see on the link above). Dragon Stand is just one bi meta event where everyone goes for the big boss. It is advisable you enter the map 10-15 min before reset, join squads and wait for reset.

I would also love to see one PVE/PVP map, maybe two factions that are in war. Blizzard did something like this for wow for some expansions. It would be just one map out of many and could not be directly tied to the story, so PVE only crowd can easily avoid it.

[costepj.5120]

3 minutes ago, Cuks.8241 said:

I would also love to see one PVE/PVP map, maybe two factions that are in war.

Isn't that just WvW?

[usernameisapain.7163]

18 minutes ago, Funky.4861 said:

1) Keep pvp out of pve.

2) Cross-map dynamic events would be a disaster and a waste of dev time. It seems like you want them to be basically like world bosses in the sense that lots of people would be attracted to them, but what for? The rewards are barely worth the participation anyway- most people do them for the exp to level a toon or for some collection item progress.

I absolutely abhor world bosses. 
As with PvP in PvE, generally I don't like this either, but having temporary interactive faction fights in the PvE zones wouldn't destroy PvE. To this I would like to add that I think if they added "instanced" zones to dynamic events, this would work just fine, and not just for allowing the occasional PvP, but also for more storied content, I'm tired of fighting everything without a story, storied dungeons were fun to me, but was never expanded upon(perhaps this is also where I am outdated, and there are some new story dungeons?). 

I haven't played HoT yet, so perhaps I should dive into that quite soon. 

Well it seems that there are some then, which is good. A map-wide dynamic events doesn't need to stop all activities, let's say a village is suffering from a water source being polluted, perhaps the players would have to investigate several points on the map for it to be solved, this wouldn't disrupt other events, and would also make areas on the map feel more interconnected. Similarly, perhaps a trade route is disrupted, and then we'll see certain merchants not selling certain goods, this might require players to visit another map, the consequence might not be huge, but it adds a bit more "living world" to the game. 

[usernameisapain.7163]

5 minutes ago, costepj.5120 said:

Isn't that just WvW?

yes & no -  WvW is in the mists, it doesn't have any effect in the environment. 

In OG GW, with Kurzick and Luxon, we could see the border moving, on the PvE map, which was affected by the PvP matches. Of course the effect it had was limited, especially with GW engine at the time. However with GW2 engine we could potentially see some really interesting changes depending on which faction had map control. 

[Dawdler.8521]

37 minutes ago, costepj.5120 said:

Isn't that just WvW?

Nonono WvW is three factions. Huge difference!

Speaking of that, Anet had this "meta with a consequence" in WvW at release due to their Warhammer connections. But surprise surprise, it wasnt particularly fun to be blocked from content just because the enemy brought the bigger zerg.

Edited October 8, 2021 by Dawdler.8521

[usernameisapain.7163]

1 minute ago, Dawdler.8521 said:

Nonono WvW is three factions. Huge difference!

Speaking of that, Anet had this "meta with a consequence" in WvW at release due to their Warhammer connections. But surprise surprise, it wasnt particularly fun to be blocked from content just because the enemy brought the bigger zerg.

 

Rather than viewing it as blocked for content, I prefer to view it as having different content. Depending on who is in control of certain outposts etc, we might see different merchants, dynamic events and so on.

[Goettel.4389]

Drizzlewood Coast

[Cuks.8241]

39 minutes ago, costepj.5120 said:

Isn't that just WvW?

It could be more like a meta event with phases with specific goals where players congregate. Wvw is sandbox and open, this would more linear and guided. It could be one faction defends, other attacks or both factions compete for the same goal. 

If you have this framed format you can have much more detailed phases. For example in phase one team 1 attacks from the sea with siege turtles while team 2 defends the coast with fortified positions (normandy gw2 style). 

[usernameisapain.7163]

27 minutes ago, SexyMofo.8923 said:

Didn’t your hear that pvp is a joke?  We don’t need more pvp zones to match manipulate. 

Wouldn't necessarily have to be PvP based, albeit if they set it up so that the only "reward" would be karma and territory control, I think it would limit manipulation. 

It could also be based on missions/events completed. If more events/missions are completed for one faction, it might give them control of certain zones for x-amount of time.

 

[Tyncale.1629]

I like Dynamic Event chains a lot too, and you have these in all sorts of sizes. Danikat pointed out the ones that often have map-impact and usually can not be done alone, and they usually have pretty good replay value because the rewards are usually in some way worthwhile(Map currency, Collections, Achievements).

 

I am also a big fan of the smaller event chains that you see littered across the world(mostly core Tyria), where 2-4 events follow up on eachother,  where you can sometimes take a different path, with a slightly different outcome. The "fail" condition is an outcome in itself.   These DE's events can be done solo, mostly, maybe with a (Group) boss at the end.  I have a feeling this type of event-chain has been abandoned in HoT and PoF and I think this is a pity.  I would like to see them more often, and also more elaborate. 

However, having said this, the lack of potential rewards is probably why these chains aren't that popular to begin with.

Therefore I  would like to have a Tab in our Hero panel that would tick off every DE Event, including chains and diverging paths when you participated in them. Possibly with a nice reward at certain intervals or maybe when you have covered all DE's of a zone.  This would make me go hunt for DE's in maps where not much else may need to be done for a Veteran. Try to do every chain-path and DE event.  

So with a little more consequence, and also more elaborate so that it may become a bit of a puzzle to "collect" all paths.  Not so much of "what to do" since that will be in the Wiki in no time, but rather having to bump into the DE-chain and make sure it goes the way you want. 

 

As to the adagio of  "I want my actions to be of influence on my surroundings" that always sounds better on paper then in-game.  I have yet to see a MMO that really nails this. "Reset" is the dirty word here.  GW2's  WvW is a nice try in my opinion, but even there everything flips and resets so often that the goals at least seem pointless to me. And if it would NOT reset it would be a completely abandoned gametype anyway.   Maybe Ashes of Creation will get it right?  

Edited October 8, 2021 by Tyncale.1629

[usernameisapain.7163]

I fully agree, and yes thank you to Danikat and everyone else pointing out where these can be found. 

The rewards are too useless, unfortunately. I wish there were more use for Karma, and more zone specific skins, unlockable only by completing set-amount of DE, or types of DE on the map (escort/ defend/ attack etc.). Hero points gained, or hero point rewarded after a certain amount are completed. Really there are ways to make the smaller scale branching events more valuable. 

I would really like to see some more instanced DE, that would limit the instanced zones to x-amount of players allowing a more intimate mini-story. 

[Svarty.8019]

14 minutes ago, Tyncale.1629 said:

As to the adagio of  "I want my actions to be of influence on my surroundings" that always sounds better on paper then in-game. 

As a WvW player, I strongly disagree. 

 

  

1 hour ago, costepj.5120 said:

Sounds exactly like Verdant Brink (minus the hearts).

IIRC the HoT maps were made dynamic like that because Silverwastes was so popular ... (?)

 

I think I'd like to see a dynamic map like this, which DOESN'T reset really quickly. It might be in victory (normal) state for a very long time (weeks). So people get surprised when the town they regard as a safe quest hub suddenly is at the centre of an event.

Edited October 8, 2021 by Svarty.8019

[Danikat.8537]

1 hour ago, usernameisapain.7163 said:

I fully agree, and yes thank you to Danikat and everyone else pointing out where these can be found. 

The rewards are too useless, unfortunately. I wish there were more use for Karma, and more zone specific skins, unlockable only by completing set-amount of DE, or types of DE on the map (escort/ defend/ attack etc.). Hero points gained, or hero point rewarded after a certain amount are completed. Really there are ways to make the smaller scale branching events more valuable. 

I would really like to see some more instanced DE, that would limit the instanced zones to x-amount of players allowing a more intimate mini-story. 

Have you spent the past 2 hours trying out some of the meta-event maps mentioned, or are you assuming their rewards are the same as a typical dynamic event and therefore not worth your time?

They're actually some of the most profitable and therefore most popular content in the game. They don't give a lot of gold directly but they do give a lot of equipment which can be sold or salvaged into materials and then sold. Silverwastes has consistently been one of the more popular gold farms since it was released and Drizzlewood Coast had a noticeable impact on the entire material economy when it released because it was awarding so much stuff.

On top of that they do give unique skins and other items. For a start they're one of the best ways to get champion loot bags, each of which has some unique weapon skins (although they are tradable so you don't have to get them as drops, you can buy them from other players too) but they also award map specific currencies and tokens which are used to get other unique skins and items and many of them have achievements tied to them which award items directly. I'm not going to try to list them all because there's a lot but for example Silverwastes awards carapace armour which can then be upgraded to luminescent armour (looks the same but glows blue) via a series of achievements.

Oh, and they do all have stories, every event in the game has some sort of story or background to it. For smaller ones that can be fairly basic (like an asuran scientist is experimenting on oozes, they got loose and he had to evacuate the lab until someone clears them out, then he goes back to his research and will sell you an ooze tonic he made) but the bigger ones tie directly into the game's main storylines. All the HoT ones for example are part of the expansion's story and explain how the player character and their allies progresses through the jungle and Dragon's Stand is the final 'boss fight' (although there's another part to it as well, which is told through the instanced story).

None of them directly award hero points but there are several hero challenges which are only accessible during a meta-event or after it's been successfully completed.

[usernameisapain.7163]

31 minutes ago, Danikat.8537 said:

Have you spent the past 2 hours trying out some of the meta-event maps mentioned, or are you assuming their rewards are the same as a typical dynamic event and therefore not worth your time?
 

I have tried some of them, I did play silverwaste, and found it semi-enjoyable. I am aware that every DE have a story attached to it, some more so than others. I just wish that they would double down on this some more, because most of them are skin thick at best. 

There is too much loot in GW2. I realise this might not be a popular opinion, but the majority of items found are useless, loot bags are the type of RNG I have reached my limit with, I'd much rather have the drops be a weapon or armor piece, related to that boss/event, or tokens towards some story-like equipment pieces that provide unique buffs(perhaps only useable in PvE and account-bound). 

Perhaps also more alternatives to ending certain DE. For example I like the "bears stealing honey" DE, but would be interesting if there was a different solution. Or even the "Apple picking" DE, would be interesting if there was a different farmer, or the wife, who would rather have the apples squashed for whatever reason. 

 

Edited October 8, 2021 by usernameisapain.7163

[usernameisapain.7163]

1 hour ago, Svarty.8019 said:

As a WvW player, I strongly disagree. 

 

  

IIRC the HoT maps were made dynamic like that because Silverwastes was so popular ... (?)

 

I think I'd like to see a dynamic map like this, which DOESN'T reset really quickly. It might be in victory (normal) state for a very long time (weeks). So people get surprised when the town they regard as a safe quest hub suddenly is at the centre of an event.

I personally would love this, even though I only have time to be a dirty casual these days. 

Could easily be related to a logical progression of a DE, alchemist brewing something that had been gathered by players, or archaeologist deciphering something that had been gathered by players etc. that would take varying degrees of time. Just spit-balling here. 

[costepj.5120]

2 hours ago, Tyncale.1629 said:

Therefore I  would like to have a Tab in our Hero panel that would tick off every DE Event, including chains and diverging paths when you participated in them

Verdant Brink has exactly that. There are achievements for following the complete event chains in each outpost.

[Rasimir.6239]

15 minutes ago, usernameisapain.7163 said:

There is too much loot in GW2. I realise this might not be a popular opinion, but the majority of items found are useless, loot bags are the type of RNG I have reached my limit with, I'd much rather have the drops be a weapon or armor piece, related to that boss/event, or tokens towards some story-like equipment pieces that provide unique buffs(perhaps only useable in PvE and account-bound). 

The way this game handles loot is on purpose, and in fact directly at odds with some of the things you are hoping for.

One of the main pillars of this game's loot design is "comparable rewards". No matter what kind of content you like to play, you will get rewards that enable you to aquire the things you are looking for. The game strives to allow you to freely choose the kind of content you like to spend your time with, and get rewarded comparably to other content.

 

Some loot (mostly cosmetics) is tied to specific content (e.g. the carapax armor somebody mentioned can only be gained on the Silverwastes map or through related pvp and wvw reward tracks), but the majority of loot can be aquired through trading, and the steady supply of generic equipment and crafting material enables everybody to gain resources to trade for whatever shiny they actually want to get.

 

This system is great for players like me that prefer to choose the content they want to spend their time on depending on what they enjoy playing, rather than depending on what the rewards are, since you are able to trade most of the rewards for whatever you are looking for. On the other hand the system is lacking for players that prefer to choose the content they play based on what (exclusive) rewards they get out of that content.

 

If you tie more specific, non-tradeable rewards to specific events, then you skew the comparability of rewards between different kinds of content. It's great if you like the kind of content that the rewards are tied to, but much less so if you don't enjoy the content that gates the specific shiny you would like to get, or get tired of playing it, or the events in question just don't happen at a time when you are free to play the game (not everyone of us has the luxury of playing undisturbed for hours).

 

The last point also ties into the question of map-changing consequences of group event chains. It's fun if you have the time and amount of players to play around on the map (see maps like Dragon's Stand or Drizzlewood for that kind of event-driven map), but it's a nuisance if you find yourself gated from certain things (e.g. adventures in Verdant Brink) because there aren't enough people around to advance an event-driven map to the point you need to access whatever you're after. As such I very much appreciate the mix of maps we have, some with map-changing meta event chains, and others with mainly smaller, localized events and event chains.

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

There has been a plethora of Karma-cost items added since your break; you can easily spend millions.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/List_of_karma_merchant_items

[Cuks.8241]

Silverwaste is not really on par with Hot metas.

You obviously havent tried the expansion maps. F2p maps are old and it shows. You may not get exactly what you want but its a big step in the direction you want. 

[Embered.5089]

Most people think that there's too much karma, but that's because they aren't purposefully spending it. I'm looking forward to Wintersday because I am completely out of karma. I'm going to farm a few million, and then it will be all be spent within one minute. What's it going towards? Tier 3 cultural skins, as well as any heart vendor minis and collectibles that I haven't bought yet. Saying that there's nothing to spend karma on is the same as saying that there's nothing to spend gold on. There's plenty to spend it on. You probably just aren't interested in the goods.

There have been many complaints about how there's too many loot bags. I think that it's a funny thing to complain about. If you don't want your loot, mail it to me. I want it. People who complain about this either can't bother to spend a few minutes dealing with their loot after a loot farm, or weren't properly equipped to deal with it (salvage kits, etc.) Also, if running an event once gives you everything that you want, then everyone will only do it once and never return. And if those items are tradable, then people might just buy them off the tp and never do the event in the first place, because the items would be so cheap and easy to obtain. If you're looking for specific skins, then look up how to get those skins. If you're wondering what skins are available, go to a bank and access your wardrobe.

I agree with others that you should thoroughly explore the expansions. The expansions give you everything that you're asking for, except the pvp content. You can go to pvp or wvw for that. There's some major overhauls being done to it, or so I've heard. I personally dislike pvp, so I would hate it if I had to pvp others in pve. Exceptions are things like the derby event in Grothmar Valley, which is basically faction tank wars. Maybe you'd enjoy that.

[Rasimir.6239]

2 hours ago, Tyncale.1629 said:

Therefor I  would like to have a Tab in our Hero panel that would tick off every DE Event, including chains and diverging paths when you participated in them. Possibly with a nice reward at certain intervals or maybe when you have covered all DE's of a zone.  This would make me go hunt for DE's in maps where not much else may need to be done for a Veteran. Try to do every chain-path and DE event.  

I may be cynical today, but all I can see here would be a mad dash through all maps right after release, with veterans speed-running events without regard to other players around, ugly fights over diverging event chains (one person "needs" the follow-up to the successful event, while the other one wants to tick of the follow-up to the failed event), and the usual vocal content locusts proclaiming that the game is dead and nothing to do after two weeks, when they've finished to tickoff all of the events.

 

Meanwhile another equally vocal group sits on the forum complaining how those events are impossible to find and you can't find those events unless you follow a guilde or read up on all of them on the wiki. A third, no less vocal group opens thread after thread on how there are no worth-while rewards tied to the list of events, while the fourth group complains at the same time that there are rewards given for them at all, thus forcing them to grind events all over the maps ...

 

Some things are better left without a shopping list attached to them 😉 .