WizardBro.4510 Posted October 18, 2021 Share Posted October 18, 2021 I don't understand how other classes get such great changes for pvp while dragonhunters only notable good change was longbow 5 cast time. Longbow 3 remains impossible to land unless you're playing against oneone with the reaction speed of a sloth same goes for spear of justice. Can we just buff the cast time on some of these spells that are just painfully bad now when every other class is twice as viable as dragonhunter. Smite condition. Why was this nerfed so hard even when I cleanse conditions with it the damage is basically the same why is there even a damage with or without conditions text when the damage is so negligible it leaves the question to why it was nerfed at all. Some of the design choices for dragon hunter just feel so nail in the coffin compared to every other class in spvp. 1 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genesis.5169 Posted October 18, 2021 Share Posted October 18, 2021 (edited) DH is fine, gaurdians are completely fine please stop you have no idea how good you have it. FB needs some work but it does so well in PvE its fine. Edited October 18, 2021 by Genesis.5169 Additional info 6 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terrorhuz.4695 Posted October 18, 2021 Share Posted October 18, 2021 Please buff dh, 10k longbow3 and 7k test of faith are very bad, we need to double that at the very least 2 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Widmo.3186 Posted October 18, 2021 Share Posted October 18, 2021 Maybe first learn how to play your class and then start whining. Also, considering you say „compared to every other class” how about you try yourself every other class and see if its really DH fault, or perhaps its just you bad at the game? Hmm... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exile.8160 Posted October 18, 2021 Share Posted October 18, 2021 3 hours ago, WizardBro.4510 said: I don't understand how other classes get such great changes for pvp while dragonhunters only notable good change was longbow 5 cast time. Longbow 3 remains impossible to land unless you're playing against oneone with the reaction speed of a sloth same goes for spear of justice. Can we just buff the cast time on some of these spells that are just painfully bad now when every other class is twice as viable as dragonhunter. Smite condition. Why was this nerfed so hard even when I cleanse conditions with it the damage is basically the same why is there even a damage with or without conditions text when the damage is so negligible it leaves the question to why it was nerfed at all. Some of the design choices for dragon hunter just feel so nail in the coffin compared to every other class in spvp. The only time DH should be buff is if trapper rune are removed from the game but for now DH is fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anjo.6143 Posted October 18, 2021 Share Posted October 18, 2021 The only thing that would improve DHs would be automatically winning matches, cause the spec is boosted at maximum level 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonidrex.5649 Posted October 18, 2021 Share Posted October 18, 2021 You can take our amazing changes Sincerely Mesmer Community 1 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragnar.4257 Posted October 18, 2021 Share Posted October 18, 2021 (edited) 55 minutes ago, anjo.6143 said: The only thing that would improve DHs would be automatically winning matches, cause the spec is boosted at maximum level Riiiiiight, that's why it's had zero representation at top level tournaments for the last 6 months, since permeating-wrath got nerfed. I guess people just don't want to win tournaments? They're intentionally ignoring such an OP spec? Or you know better than the combined consensus of the entire plat3+ community? Spellbreaker and Mirage are played way more than DH at tournament level. Let's not even mention stuff like Holo or Renegade. Edited October 18, 2021 by Ragnar.4257 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avatar.3568 Posted October 18, 2021 Share Posted October 18, 2021 50 minutes ago, Ragnar.4257 said: Riiiiiight, that's why it's had zero representation at top level tournaments for the last 6 months, since permeating-wrath got nerfed. I guess people just don't want to win tournaments? They're intentionally ignoring such an OP spec? Or you know better than the combined consensus of the entire plat3+ community? Spellbreaker and Mirage are played way more than DH at tournament level. Let's not even mention stuff like Holo or Renegade. Dh is not used because rev and thief are existing, but it is still a pretty good class/spec Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vancho.8750 Posted October 18, 2021 Share Posted October 18, 2021 @WizardBro.4510 Bruh if anything is the The Redheaded Stepchild is either Berserker(maybe warrior as a whole) or Chrono, there isn't some miracle rune that can save them even for queue. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronald McDonald.8165 Posted October 18, 2021 Share Posted October 18, 2021 2 hours ago, Ragnar.4257 said: Riiiiiight, that's why it's had zero representation at top level tournaments for the last 6 months, since permeating-wrath got nerfed. I guess people just don't want to win tournaments? They're intentionally ignoring such an OP spec? Or you know better than the combined consensus of the entire plat3+ community? Spellbreaker and Mirage are played way more than DH at tournament level. Let's not even mention stuff like Holo or Renegade. Ragnar I know we have had this conversation before about how ranked and tournaments are completely different environments. It is extremely disingenuous of you to imply there is anything weak about DH. When the #1 ranked player says it’s an OP build for ranked and you can literally watch his stream destroying people with it you can’t say there is any sort of consensus. 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anjo.6143 Posted October 18, 2021 Share Posted October 18, 2021 5 hours ago, Ragnar.4257 said: Riiiiiight, that's why it's had zero representation at top level tournaments for the last 6 months, since permeating-wrath got nerfed. I guess people just don't want to win tournaments? They're intentionally ignoring such an OP spec? Or you know better than the combined consensus of the entire plat3+ community? Spellbreaker and Mirage are played way more than DH at tournament level. Let's not even mention stuff like Holo or Renegade. One thing is Tournaments, another COMPLETELY different is ranked. If you know that and argue this, you have no good intention but "win". If you dont know that, it's a conversation that's not worth it. Either way, is a no-no talk to me. PS.: DH is the only class ranged that can tank stuff with 11k hp, do 16k from 1 hit, from stealth, from 1500 range, with 8s cd, has port and incredible mobility. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragnar.4257 Posted October 18, 2021 Share Posted October 18, 2021 24 minutes ago, anjo.6143 said: One thing is Tournaments, another COMPLETELY different is ranked. If you know that and argue this, you have no good intention but "win". If you dont know that, it's a conversation that's not worth it. Either way, is a no-no talk to me. PS.: DH is the only class ranged that can tank stuff with 11k hp, do 16k from 1 hit, from stealth, from 1500 range, with 8s cd, has port and incredible mobility. Why don't you go and watch Naru and count the number of times each game that he hits TS for 16k. The average hit lands for about 4-6k. And you want to talk about debating honestly ^^. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CalmTheStorm.2364 Posted October 18, 2021 Share Posted October 18, 2021 1 hour ago, Ragnar.4257 said: Why don't you go and watch Naru and count the number of times each game that he hits TS for 16k. The average hit lands for about 4-6k. And you want to talk about debating honestly ^^. True Shot is only a tiny part of the DHs damage potential. The rest is due to his traps...and then there's the abundance of stealth and super speed from using them. TS is not the problem here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragnar.4257 Posted October 18, 2021 Share Posted October 18, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, CalmTheStorm.2364 said: True Shot is only a tiny part of the DHs damage potential. The rest is due to his traps...and then there's the abundance of stealth and super speed from using them. TS is not the problem here. Yeah, that's great, but not relevant. Because anjo said "16k from 1 hit". How is this difficult for you to follow? Anjo says "16k from 1 hit", I say "no, it doesn't", this is basic language you're struggling with. You've already gone in this thread from confirmation bias, to hyperbole, to moving the goalposts. Would it not be easier to just admit you're wrong on this? Edited October 18, 2021 by Ragnar.4257 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genesis.5169 Posted October 18, 2021 Share Posted October 18, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, Ragnar.4257 said: Yeah, that's great, but not relevant. Because anjo said "16k from 1 hit". How is this difficult for you to follow? Anjo says "16k from 1 hit", I say "no, it doesn't", this is basic language you're struggling with. You've already gone in this thread from confirmation bias, to hyperbole, to moving the goalposts. Would it not be easier to just admit you're wrong on this? I mean if the target had 25 stacks of vul and the DH has some might and some modifiers in i can see 10k+ maybe even that 16k number a warrior hit me for 13k on my thief with no vul on me i'm not sure if which is stronger true shot or kill shot tbh tho. Edited October 18, 2021 by Genesis.5169 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragnar.4257 Posted October 18, 2021 Share Posted October 18, 2021 7 minutes ago, Genesis.5169 said: I mean if the target had 25 stacks of vul and the DH has some might and some modifiers in i can see 10k+ maybe even that 16k number a warrior hit me for 13k on my thief with no vul on me i'm not sure if which is stronger true shot or kill shot tbh tho. It's theoretically possible, but that's not the same as it being a regular occurrence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anjo.6143 Posted October 19, 2021 Share Posted October 19, 2021 23 hours ago, Ragnar.4257 said: Why don't you go and watch Naru and count the number of times each game that he hits TS for 16k. The average hit lands for about 4-6k. And you want to talk about debating honestly ^^. Average? 7k... On ONE skill 10k+ I see A LOT on his streams. The DH dmg is pepega and they have everything but high hp 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackTruth.6813 Posted October 19, 2021 Share Posted October 19, 2021 (edited) It doesn't matter if you "dont see DH in MATS" Guardian (specifically dragon hunter in this thread) has always been a zero skill class. Your traps eat through evades, your F1 if you land it the first time eats through evades AND IT'S FAST + GUARDIAN BAITS DODGES SO EASY, you have decent aegis/block spam vs burst, you have okay cleanse. What more do you want, this spec takes no skill no matter how you build it. People were saying Turret Engi wasn't good until a bunch of people back in the day played it in a tournament. To make dragonhunter work in MAT you have to make it play like a thief and have a bunch of Necros to strip stability and you just gank, it wouldn't even be that hard. Guardian takes no skill no matter how you build it, stop complaining about how your life is hard just because nobody picked your class in an MAT. Edited October 19, 2021 by BlackTruth.6813 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonidrex.5649 Posted October 19, 2021 Share Posted October 19, 2021 45 minutes ago, BlackTruth.6813 said: It doesn't matter if you "dont see DH in MATS" Guardian (specifically dragon hunter in this thread) has always been a zero skill class. Your traps eat through evades, your F1 if you land it the first time eats through evades AND IT'S FAST + GUARDIAN BAITS DODGES SO EASY, you have decent aegis/block spam vs burst, you have okay cleanse. What more do you want, this spec takes no skill no matter how you build it. People were saying Turret Engi wasn't good until a bunch of people back in the day played it in a tournament. To make dragonhunter work in MAT you have to make it play like a thief and have a bunch of Necros to strip stability and you just gank, it wouldn't even be that hard. Guardian takes no skill no matter how you build it, stop complaining about how your life is hard just because nobody picked your class in an MAT. its not even his class, as guardian is on every team. god forbid every guard spec wasnt broken 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragnar.4257 Posted October 19, 2021 Share Posted October 19, 2021 1 hour ago, anjo.6143 said: Average? 7k... On ONE skill 10k+ I see A LOT on his streams. The DH dmg is pepega and they have everything but high hp Funny, I was not aware that 7 = 16. Interesting how you've gone from 16k to 7k isn't it. Almost like you also know that your claim of 16k is BS, but you can't bring yourself to say the words. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragnar.4257 Posted October 19, 2021 Share Posted October 19, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, anjo.6143 said: Average? 7k... On ONE skill 10k+ I see A LOT on his streams. The DH dmg is pepega and they have everything but high hp Here, to help you out, I took Naru's first game from yesterday's stream, just the first game I came across on DH. He casts TS 21 times. 8 of them are negated (evade/blind/block/invuln/obstruct) 2 of them are into stealth enemies, impossible to see if they connected and if they did how much damage So that leaves 11 hits. The average of those 11 hits is 4755 damage. The highest hit was 7260 damage The lowest hit was 1108 damage But hey, I know you're not really here to debate facts, you just want to vent about enemies who do "a bazillion gajillion damage while perma-invuln". For reference, the first match in this video: Cast Evade Block 3499 Non-crit Stealth – unknown Stealth – unknown 1108 Non-crit 3078 Crit Blind Reflect 4721 Crit Obstructed Block Evade 4371 Crit 6024 Crit 6557 Crit 3935 Crit 6056 Crit Invuln 7260 Crit 5698 Crit Edited October 19, 2021 by Ragnar.4257 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saharo.5381 Posted October 19, 2021 Share Posted October 19, 2021 We've been asking for a longbow buff/rework since the HoT nerf to DH 🙂 Stealth trap DH and heal support core are your only two options for Guardians in PvP imo after the burn nerfs. You can make them work well with the right playstyle and team, but sad to see diversity of builds reduced to this level. 2 hours ago, BlackTruth.6813 said: Guardian (specifically dragon hunter in this thread) has always been a zero skill class. Your traps eat through evades, your F1 if you land it the first time eats through evades AND IT'S FAST + GUARDIAN BAITS DODGES SO EASY Guardian takes no skill no matter how you build it, stop complaining about how your life is hard just because nobody picked your class in an MAT. Core Guard has always been a simpler spec to play in PvP. But a good FB takes skill, maybe you weren't around for the FB meta. Just say you've gotten trashed by some Guards lately and go because you clearly don't know when to use your dodges and evades. Post nerf DH builds barely punish you for messing these up, and you can literally walk out of half of DH AoE casts and not get hit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragnar.4257 Posted October 19, 2021 Share Posted October 19, 2021 This is fun. 2nd game on DH from same stream. 18 TS cast, 4 negated, 14 hits. Average = 5028 damage Highest = 10102 damage Lowest = 2166 damage 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragnar.4257 Posted October 19, 2021 Share Posted October 19, 2021 This is just >>textbook<< confirmation-bias. People get hit once for 12k, and assume that's what happens every time. They don't even notice all the times it hits for 3k. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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