Warrior and his E-spec. What's going on?

[Katary.7096]

4 hours ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

Meanwhile I'm still waiting on what the real trade off as opposed to the "tradeoff" is for:

Tempest

DH

Firebrand

Scrapper

Holo

Reaper 

At this point it isn't even about them not having the time to go back to old elites and add tradeoffs to them. Catalyst is so brand-new that it isn't even out yet and it is simply core Elementalist plus new stuff, again (looking at you, Tempest).

[Vancho.8750]

8 hours ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

Perfectly reasonable.

The whole Tradeoff thing is utter bull💩 . It's just Anet's way of overnerfing something on purpose while letting other specs slide by with "Tradeoffs" that are anything but.

Berserk mode is fine as mechanic, the burst are  fine, everything with the gameplay is fine. 

The balancing and the supporting traits are not. Shorter CD on the mode and you wont feel the lack of core bursts, the passives traits should not be there just for activating it really goes against the ide of the extend duration skills, like why would I want to extend the duration when the useful bit is frontloaded, the -300 toughness is stupid, the defensive row on zerker is really bad at sustain, there is only one condition management skill and it is on torch and it is not even good like for example to "burn" off conditions periodically instead of 2 on cast. Like what the kitten was the grand idea to kitten with the sustain, give it ridiculous damage, then nerf the damage cause it was one dimensional because they made it like that. Why do rage skills are so lame, why are they only useful in berserk mode, WHY IS THE kitten BEAR ANIMATION HIDDEN ON WILD BLOW, this one would have been actually cool as Berserk enter animation. 

The Grand master traits are garbage, like why remove the cc on bloody roar, King of fires is lame, when guardian has permeating wrath on 3 hits and you have to explode fire auras but first you have to get them, Eternal champion gives might and stability on stunbreak, why might, give me resolution and maybe damage mitigation 30% would be fine in berserk mode, let me melee in PVP please.
Why is berserker so complicated to play and not the OOGA BOOGA that is supposed to be, at least the axe axe pve build is OOGA BOOGA 10/10 best pve build in the game, but is that it one working build really???? .

And I made myself angry and haven't reached the point about why SpB and Bladesworn are garbage. 

[draxynnic.3719]

5 hours ago, Hannelore.8153 said:

Fwiw, I think Bladesworn will also be a good support spec too, since its ammo reset will take HealShouts to a whole new level. Granted, everyone will still want Bannerslave instead but its still an option.

 

The Bannerslave meta will never end for Warrior. is a critical flaw of the class design. Its boring support but also some of the strongest support in the game which is why its always in demand. Its similar to lacking boons like Alacrity, Quickness, Stability in encounters, just more passive.

 

To make other builds viable, banners would either have to be deleted or changed completely.

 

Honestly pretty disappointed with the options this year in general, except for a few. Warrior in particular, I was hoping it would either having banners integrated into its F# keys or received the ability to swap between three weapon sets, instead of Bladesworn. But it is what it is.

Eh, in my experience, banners aren't THAT big. Quickness is generally the support everyone wants in high-end PvE. Alacrity is something that 10-man groups will want to have, while tier 4 fractal pugs often don't care enough about it to specifically wait for someone who grants alacrity. Bannerslave seems to be regarded as a 'nice to have, but not a big deal if you don't'. It's rare to see a fractal group LFG asking for banners (most PUGs I've joined didn't have them) and in ten man... well, when my raid static was going, people appreciated that I volunteered to take over banners when our previous banner bearer became unreliable, but the general attitude was that it wasn't really a big deal, certainly not nearly as important as quickness and alacrity.

 

Yes, it's part of the ideal composition. But the impact isn't big enough to be an essential part.

[Jzaku.9765]

7 hours ago, Hannelore.8153 said:

Fwiw, I think Bladesworn will also be a good support spec too, since its ammo reset will take HealShouts to a whole new level. Granted, everyone will still want Bannerslave instead but its still an option.

 

The Bannerslave meta will never end for Warrior. is a critical flaw of the class design. Its boring support but also some of the strongest support in the game which is why its always in demand. Its similar to lacking boons like Alacrity, Quickness, Stability in encounters, just more passive.

 

To make other builds viable, banners would either have to be deleted or changed completely.

 

Honestly pretty disappointed with the options this year in general, except for a few. Warrior in particular, I was hoping it would either having banners integrated into its F# keys or received the ability to swap between three weapon sets, instead of Bladesworn. But it is what it is.

Heal Shout Warrior could level up several times and still get absolutely blown out of the Water by the likes of Druid, Tempest, Firebrand, Scrapper, etc etc

 

It absolutely boggles my mind how people think that a Healer build literally without any trickle healing access will ever function in PVE. Warrior doesn't even have access to REGEN. Has ANYONE who talks about Shoutheal Warr even tried it? You can't even outheal the Golem training arena's medium damage tick. Warhorn Tempest literally has 2x the HPS. 

Edited November 4, 2021 by Jzaku.9765

[Logos.3042]

4 hours ago, Katary.7096 said:

At this point it isn't even about them not having the time to go back to old elites and add tradeoffs to them. Catalyst is so brand-new that it isn't even out yet and it is simply core Elementalist plus new stuff, again (looking at you, Tempest).

I feel like warrior is the same old thing.  Yay, they added a transform skillbar / kit effect! 

But it's still just another melee power warrior elite spec, just like the other two before it!

[Vancho.8750]

17 hours ago, Jzaku.9765 said:

Heal Shout Warrior could level up several times and still get absolutely blown out of the Water by the likes of Druid, Tempest, Firebrand, Scrapper, etc etc

 

It absolutely boggles my mind how people think that a Healer build literally without any trickle healing access will ever function in PVE. Warrior doesn't even have access to REGEN. Has ANYONE who talks about Shoutheal Warr even tried it? You can't even outheal the Golem training arena's medium damage tick. Warhorn Tempest literally has 2x the HPS. 

Banners had regen before with the trait, they removed that, but without anything in return and I think then they nerfed the banner stats also, they literally made them stat sticks. Also I still do not get the idea with the light fields, like someone sat down looked how people are forced to play, full dps with really clunky stat sticks, and decided that FULL DPS BUILD needed light fields. 
They have been removing good synergies and changed stuff on warrior that doesn't go anywhere. The worst part is that they can't make their simplest mechanically profession work, the skills are not many and the traits can't go in some wacky place like other professions, you press button it does something you pick trait it does 2 somethings.      

[oscuro.9720]

19 hours ago, Logos.3042 said:

I feel like warrior is the same old thing.  Yay, they added a transform skillbar / kit effect! 

But it's still just another melee power warrior elite spec, just like the other two before it!

I mean, not everyone is upset about that. I didn’t want a support spec, I’m glad we got a dps mid-melee hybrid spec. It plays differently to other warrior specs. However, I’m pretty sure I’m in the minority, and you are free to disagree 🙂 

[Valik Shin.9027]

So here's the basic breakdown of warrior according to anet.

 

The fact that warrior has high health and heavy armor mean that they need very little survivability skills. The health and armor make up for that.

 

The fact that warrior has fast hands and relatively short skill CD means that any pack of damage on weapon skills is compensated by the skill being more spamable 

[Logos.3042]

On 11/4/2021 at 3:16 PM, oscuro.9720 said:

I mean, not everyone is upset about that. I didn’t want a support spec, I’m glad we got a dps mid-melee hybrid spec. It plays differently to other warrior specs. However, I’m pretty sure I’m in the minority, and you are free to disagree 🙂 

How do you feel it is a mid-melee?  pistol is melee...

[Logos.3042]

14 hours ago, Valik Shin.9027 said:

So here's the basic breakdown of warrior according to anet.

 

The fact that warrior has high health and heavy armor mean that they need very little survivability skills. The health and armor make up for that.

 

The fact that warrior has fast hands and relatively short skill CD means that any pack of damage on weapon skills is compensated by the skill being more spamable 

LOL

[Valik Shin.9027]

2 hours ago, Logos.3042 said:

LOL

You laugh but that is a paraphrase of what anet has said over the years

[CalmTheStorm.2364]

30 minutes ago, Valik Shin.9027 said:

You laugh but that is a paraphrase of what anet has said over the years

I don't think he was laughing at you, just at how out of touch ANet is. And you're both right; to think that sightly more base HP makes up for not having perma stealth, invul spam, barrier spam, perma protection, or double health bars is ridiculous.

[draxynnic.3719]

It's about 8000 health - which makes it nearly double the base health of low-health targets. The effect of the extra 200 or so armour is roughly 10% by my calculations.

 

That's... not insignificant, but the effect can be overestimated, especially if a profession is slow to get that health back and is therefore subject to attrition.

 

Ultimately, the proof is in the in-game experience. Warrior can be pretty tanky but it does rely on stacking a lot of blocks and evades which limits build diversity. One certainly can't say that the simple fact of having high health and armour alone means that warrior durability is fine, especially considering that it's usually in obligatory melee builds.

[anbujackson.9564]

So I saw a few rankings of the elite specs lately. It was predictable. Plenty of people who dont like or play warrior much put it in S tier (or very high in general). "Doing high numbers is fun, cool playstyle and design", its obviously mostly from PvE players. Its funny though because literally anyone I ask will say that the playstyle is boring, high numbers arent everything, gets carried by the huge damage scaling and one op master trait and if those two things get nerfed, it will have nothing left.

So here is the deal: Since ANET tries to appeal the casual fanbase (its the majority after all), we might not see any meaningful changes to its design. Thats just my prediction though, maybe I am just too pessimistic? 

[draxynnic.3719]

1 hour ago, anbujackson.9564 said:

So I saw a few rankings of the elite specs lately. It was predictable. Plenty of people who dont like or play warrior much put it in S tier (or very high in general). "Doing high numbers is fun, cool playstyle and design", its obviously mostly from PvE players. Its funny though because literally anyone I ask will say that the playstyle is boring, high numbers arent everything, gets carried by the huge damage scaling and one op master trait and if those two things get nerfed, it will have nothing left.

So here is the deal: Since ANET tries to appeal the casual fanbase (its the majority after all), we might not see any meaningful changes to its design. Thats just my prediction though, maybe I am just too pessimistic? 

Yeah. I'm pretty much expecting its PvE damage output in a full DPS build to be normalised to the ~40K DPS that is allowed in full DPS builds, and that's about it.

 

Might make warrior more desired in DPS roles in high-end PvE, especially in encounters such as Keep Construct that reward damage spikes in a predictable window. People who solo champions and legendaries will probably enjoy it too. Otherwise, apart from roleplaying a gunpowder samurai in open world and story instances, I don't think it's going to add much. Hopefully the next will be better. I do want to try out using the third grandmaster trait to chain Dragon Slashes together with minimum charging time and see how that works in the PvP balance environment, but I'm not expecting that to be much more than a noob killer.

Edited November 6, 2021 by draxynnic.3719

[oscuro.9720]

17 hours ago, Logos.3042 said:

How do you feel it is a mid-melee?  pistol is melee...

The most effective way to play gunsabre in the beta was mid-melee. I didn’t run pistol much because it wasn’t as good as other off hands.

[Mesket.5728]

On 11/6/2021 at 6:27 AM, draxynnic.3719 said:

I don't think it's going to add much. Hopefully the next will be better.

There wont be a next one. Last expansion, last especs. And warrior has been sentenced to a lifetime of role-less.

[draxynnic.3719]

Just now, Mesket.5728 said:

There wont be a next one. Last expansion, last especs. And warrior has been sentenced to a lifetime of role-less.

Everything ArenaNet has been saying has been indicating that EoD is intended to be the start of a second wind for Guild Wars 2 and they plan to follow on from it with a new story arc once the Elder Dragons arc is brought to a close. They were, at one point, considering ending at the end of Season 4 (which would have meant no End of Dragons at all), but in the end they decided to refocus on GW2 rather than end it.

 

And these words have been backed up by actions. Upgrading the graphics engine is a big step to take if EoD is intended to be the last expansion. They've also rehired a few big names, which would be an odd decision if they were really planning for EoD to be one last hurrah. The only way I can see them not proceeding with a further expansion after EoD is if EoD flops and they decide to pull the plug after all, or if they haven't learned from their mistakes and try to pull "expansion level content without an expansion!" for a third time.

 

I know "GW2 is dying" is a common meme, but the fact is that while this is something that was true, it is no longer the case. No conspiracy theory here - ArenaNet has freely admitted that there was a point where they thought Aurene's ascension might be the end of GW2. This is why there was such a big gap between PoF and EoD - because once they decided not to kill GW2 after all, they had to build their momentum back up, but the time when GW2 was at risk of dying is now in the past. As a result, at this stage I expect the gap between EoD and the next expansion to be more like the gap between HoT and PoF.

[Opopanax.1803]

On 11/3/2021 at 5:12 PM, Vancho.8750 said:

Berserk mode is fine as mechanic, the burst are  fine, everything with the gameplay is fine. 

The balancing and the supporting traits are not. Shorter CD on the mode and you wont feel the lack of core bursts, the passives traits should not be there just for activating it really goes against the ide of the extend duration skills, like why would I want to extend the duration when the useful bit is frontloaded, the -300 toughness is stupid, the defensive row on zerker is really bad at sustain, there is only one condition management skill and it is on torch and it is not even good like for example to "burn" off conditions periodically instead of 2 on cast. Like what the kitten was the grand idea to kitten with the sustain, give it ridiculous damage, then nerf the damage cause it was one dimensional because they made it like that. Why do rage skills are so lame, why are they only useful in berserk mode, WHY IS THE kitten BEAR ANIMATION HIDDEN ON WILD BLOW, this one would have been actually cool as Berserk enter animation. 

The Grand master traits are garbage, like why remove the cc on bloody roar, King of fires is lame, when guardian has permeating wrath on 3 hits and you have to explode fire auras but first you have to get them, Eternal champion gives might and stability on stunbreak, why might, give me resolution and maybe damage mitigation 30% would be fine in berserk mode, let me melee in PVP please.
Why is berserker so complicated to play and not the OOGA BOOGA that is supposed to be, at least the axe axe pve build is OOGA BOOGA 10/10 best pve build in the game, but is that it one working build really???? .

And I made myself angry and haven't reached the point about why SpB and Bladesworn are garbage. 

I could get behind this.  

[Opopanax.1803]

15 hours ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

Everything ArenaNet has been saying has been indicating that EoD is intended to be the start of a second wind for Guild Wars 2 and they plan to follow on from it with a new story arc once the Elder Dragons arc is brought to a close. They were, at one point, considering ending at the end of Season 4 (which would have meant no End of Dragons at all), but in the end they decided to refocus on GW2 rather than end it.

 

And these words have been backed up by actions. Upgrading the graphics engine is a big step to take if EoD is intended to be the last expansion. They've also rehired a few big names, which would be an odd decision if they were really planning for EoD to be one last hurrah. The only way I can see them not proceeding with a further expansion after EoD is if EoD flops and they decide to pull the plug after all, or if they haven't learned from their mistakes and try to pull "expansion level content without an expansion!" for a third time.

 

I know "GW2 is dying" is a common meme, but the fact is that while this is something that was true, it is no longer the case. No conspiracy theory here - ArenaNet has freely admitted that there was a point where they thought Aurene's ascension might be the end of GW2. This is why there was such a big gap between PoF and EoD - because once they decided not to kill GW2 after all, they had to build their momentum back up, but the time when GW2 was at risk of dying is now in the past. As a result, at this stage I expect the gap between EoD and the next expansion to be more like the gap between HoT and PoF.

I will keep supporting ANET...but man, they so struck out for me on elite specs for EoD...

[draxynnic.3719]

Just now, Opopanax.1803 said:

I will keep supporting ANET...but man, they so struck out for me on elite specs for EoD...

It's a common opinion. Personally, I'm willing to give them some time. Partially because having just refocused on GW2, they're probably still (re)finding their feet a bit, and partially because these betas have been considerably earlier than previous betas and therefore the specialisations could be expected to be in a much less polished state. Most of the specialisations that are bad now can probably be made good with relatively minor changes, which is a good position to be in when the next beta is still three months from release (call it two if you take into account Christmas and other assorted New Year's-related disruptions, but still...). The exceptions are bladesworn (I don't think that will ever work properly in competitive modes, and I suspect it will just end up being written off there) and catalyst (which probably needs a from-the-ground-up redesign). There's also a fair amount of "not what some players of the profession wanted" among the other specialisations, but you can't please everyone every time. 

 

If they're still bad on release, or months afterwards, then I'll be judging. And if the fourth set is bad, judging will intensify. There are quite a few good concepts that have yet to be used, after all. 

[Mesket.5728]

20 hours ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

Everything ArenaNet has been saying has been indicating that EoD is intended to be the start of a second wind for Guild Wars 2 and they plan to follow on from it with a new story arc once the Elder Dragons arc is brought to a close

Im not trying to be a doomsayer. I know it was supposed to end in LS4 and then they released ice brood saga as a bonus and carried on but it is not and will not be the same level of delivery we got in HoT or PoF. The reason ibsaga was free is because it lacks content and features to be a real product. Still, they saw a portion of the playerbase is still loyal and that portion would buy almost anything so here we are about to get an expansion that concist mostly on recicled assets. They drastically reduced their team so it is no surprise everything showcased is uninspired. I dont see DX11 as a great investment on their side thinking about the long term... it probably was something they had on development for so long now and where it is DX12? 

 

I really think this time they are sticking to it and this is the last expansion. I dont see EOD being revolutionary big to the point they hire people back. At the end of the day the game doesnt get any younger and neither are those loyal players.

[draxynnic.3719]

Just now, Mesket.5728 said:

Im not trying to be a doomsayer. I know it was supposed to end in LS4 and then they released ice brood saga as a bonus and carried on but it is not and will not be the same level of delivery we got in HoT or PoF. The reason ibsaga was free is because it lacks content and features to be a real product. Still, they saw a portion of the playerbase is still loyal and that portion would buy almost anything so here we are about to get an expansion that concist mostly on recicled assets. They drastically reduced their team so it is no surprise everything showcased is uninspired. I dont see DX11 as a great investment on their side thinking about the long term... it probably was something they had on development for so long now and where it is DX12? 

 

I really think this time they are sticking to it and this is the last expansion. I dont see EOD being revolutionary big to the point they hire people back. At the end of the day the game doesnt get any younger and neither are those loyal players.

We'll see, but ArenaNet has been saying that they have plans for GW2 to go into a brand-new story arc once the Elder Dragons story is complete. I really don't see them trying to carry through a new story arc through Living Story seasons alone. 

 

You say it's not getting any younger, but WoW is eight years older and it's only recently started to show real signs of slipping... and even that might be more due to protest at revelations at Blizzard's work culture rather than anything to do with its age.

[Mesket.5728]

35 minutes ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

We'll see, but ArenaNet has been saying that they have plans for GW2 to go into a brand-new story arc once the Elder Dragons story is complete. I really don't see them trying to carry through a new story arc through Living Story seasons alone. 

 

You say it's not getting any younger, but WoW is eight years older and it's only recently started to show real signs of slipping... and even that might be more due to protest at revelations at Blizzard's work culture rather than anything to do with its age.

yeah  but I wouldn't compare Blizzard and ANet wallets. Wow is beyond a game, its a phenomenon, where the same people playing dislike the game because is not what it used to be but they wouldn't play it any other way and don't move forward cause nostalgia reasons.

Edited November 8, 2021 by Mesket.5728

[draxynnic.3719]

18 minutes ago, Mesket.5728 said:

yeah  but I wouldn't compare Blizzard and ANet wallets. Wow is beyond a game, its a phenomenon, where the same people playing dislike the game because is not what it used to be but they wouldn't play it any other way and don't move forward cause nostalgia reasons.

Doesn't matter how big the wallets are if the game is still profitable. Deep wallets only matter when you're in the position of needing to accept a temporary loss in hope of making a profit later.

 

What ArenaNet has been saying suggests they're in for the long haul. Either they're lying, or they have plans for more than a Living World season after EoD.

 

Of course, plans might change, but there is no evidence to the supposition that EoD will be the final expansion. And given the lack of credible evidence to your claim, you ARE being a doomsayer.

Edited November 8, 2021 by draxynnic.3719