The Friendslist, Why I think it needs to be changed [Merged]

[Charall.4710]

23 minutes ago, Lyssia.4637 said:

AFAIK, you can still see where people on your block list are.  At least, I still see where people on my blocklist are, and I'm sure I'm not on ANY list of theirs; I blocked them for team chat obnoxiousness in WvW. 

Regardless, perhaps the simplest solution is just to allow you to right click on anyone on your followers list and force them to stop following you, with them not being able to add you back on until you toggle the "block" off again.  Minimal change to the system, doesn't take anything at all away from the good parts of it, and yet it takes care of the single biggest problem.

I am still against a follower system because even something like that can be abused, A friend Request system solves everything and does not make it hard to group or anything. Plenty of games like FFXIV have them, why not here?

[Zephyr.5382]

I fully support this, OP. Like others, I haven't personally experienced harassment. But my anecdotal evidence doesn't invalidate yours. I'm seeing some logical fallacies in the opposing arguments you're getting.

Edited November 17, 2021 by Zephyr.5382

[Rogue.8235]

18 hours ago, Dravvi.3146 said:

Block and move on doesn't work as many people think it does at least in gw2, the problem is even if you block them they are going to follow you from map to map to harass you and the GM's are gonna brush off reports about it. It's extremely stressful when it does happen.

Right so block needs to ensure that the blocked player cannot see what map your in no matter what status they have you as in their own friends list.

That's reasonable.

Anxiety from the feeling of being targeted like that I can understand and did not think of before.

 

[Lyssia.4637]

16 minutes ago, Rogue.8235 said:

Right so block needs to ensure that the blocked player cannot see what map your in

 

AND cannot see your characters' names.  Preferably not see that you are on at all.  Not all trolling and harassment is in-game or reportable.  I've had people I knew irl track my playing - and, disturbingly, my daughters' - and post about it on Facebook.  I don't use social media anymore because of it, but it's still very unsettling, knowing I can't do a thing to keep them from knowing I'm on but not play at all.

[Charall.4710]

18 minutes ago, Rogue.8235 said:

Right so block needs to ensure that the blocked player cannot see what map your in no matter what status they have you as in their own friends list.

That's reasonable.

Anxiety from the feeling of being targeted like that I can understand and did not think of before.

 

Theres a bit more to it but yep thats definitely part of it.

[Linken.6345]

So have people been to freely with their personal information and then bad people find them on social media.

I wouldent call that a game problem thats people being to easy imo.

This change from the OP would be horrid for another minority the commanders that people want to follow, they would have to add multiple hundreds to their friends list over time.

[Sinmir.6504]

I know you can get an enemy in WvW's name by blocking them. Checking the block list then unblocking. Or leaving blocked and whispering anyway. Though comuncation with enemy players isn't allways bad, once made friends with one and changed servers to join their guild. Another time I was getting my daily monument, an enemy player approached but waited outside for me to finish. Then I stepped out and he went in. I whispered to thank him.

 

20 hours ago, Dravvi.3146 said:

Block and move on doesn't work as many people think it does at least in gw2, the problem is even if you block them they are going to follow you from map to map to harass you and the GM's are gonna brush off reports about it. It's extremely stressful when it does happen.

On 11/16/2021 at 6:13 PM, IndigoSundown.5419 said:

As to "block" being adequate... no. As long as someone can locate you in game, they can find you and do annoying things regardless of not being able to "speak."

 

 

Can that happen outside of WvW? Just being in GW2 Discussion and not the WvW board had me wondering if there was something bad about the friend list in PvE. In PvE you can't attack another player. You can follow them about but what more can you do? If you block a player they can't hurl insults at you, I guess they could insult you over map chat to everyone else, but if someone was doing that and I read it, I'd lose more respect for them than the person they are writing about.

[PeachyPleasure.8049]

14 hours ago, ProtoGunner.4953 said:

I never had such issues in any games. Assholes I blocked, sure, but never 'harrassment'. I think the problem here generally is that people make it a problem. I really don't care if someone 'follows' me if that ever happened to me anyways. If you have such issues even in a virtual world, please go see a consultant. This should be not the norm.

I like how you instantly try to take this to a personal level. First of all, it does not matter whether I personally faced this problem or not, as I said it before, just because you have never encountered a problem it can be there regardless.

 

I don't even have a clue what the second part of your reply tries to say. I should "go see a consultant", because I find it rudiculous that after you blocked someone they can still add you to their friend/follower list? Or after you blocked someone in WvW (where enemies should be nameless right), you can see their account name in your block list and can easily reach them anyway. Yes, the current system makes perfect sense...

 

By the way, because you are so interested in my mental health and personal affairs, I can assure you I have never faced this problem (personally, but have seen it happen to others), but I can still see the flaws. The norm should be that the community signals to these type of players that their behaviour is not going to be tolerated, instead of saying "I don't have this problem, so I don't care, moreover I am going to call out people, who do care or dare to discuss this, just because".

[Mungrul.9358]

Okay, this suggestion may be controversial and seen as burdening the victim with the burden of anonymity, but how about an option to hide your nameplate?

 

This is specifically thinking about @Skynet.7201's post.

 

They note that they currently use the friendslist to avoid maps that toxic players might be on, with the obvious problem being that should they run across them on that map, they'll be recognised.

 

Being able to hide your character's name and have the nameplate replaced with your profession is the most practical way around this that I can think of.

 

Of course,  the option would have to come with some more granular control; maybe a menu with choices like:

Hide my name from:

Everyone

Everyone but guild members

Everyone but people on my Friends list

Everyone but guild members and people on my Friends list

Everyone in my Blocked list

[PeachyPleasure.8049]

2 hours ago, Mungrul.9358 said:

Okay, this suggestion may be controversial and seen as burdening the victim with the burden of anonymity, but how about an option to hide your nameplate?

 

This is specifically thinking about @Skynet.7201's post.

 

They note that they currently use the friendslist to avoid maps that toxic players might be on, with the obvious problem being that should they run across them on that map, they'll be recognised.

 

Being able to hide your character's name and have the nameplate replaced with your profession is the most practical way around this that I can think of.

 

Of course,  the option would have to come with some more granular control; maybe a menu with choices like:

Hide my name from:

Everyone

Everyone but guild members

Everyone but people on my Friends list

Everyone but guild members and people on my Friends list

Everyone in my Blocked list

I think this could be a good solution too. I am supporting any idea which gives a vareity of options for players to customize how they want to interact with other players.

They could also give various options to OP's original idea about Friend requests: you could decide whether you want to filter people yourself or simply accept requests automatically.

[Lyssia.4637]

12 hours ago, Linken.6345 said:

So have people been to freely with their personal information and then bad people find them on social media.

Um... no.  At least in my situation, this was an issue with some abusive people in my husband's family, and with some people we knew in real life who belonged to a guild in game who weren't dealing with his death well.  And I kind of resent your immediate reaction is to blame me and the others dealing with this.  You have NO evidence people were being "too free with their personal information."

 

14 hours ago, Dravvi.3146 said:

I am still against a follower system because even something like that can be abused, A friend Request system solves everything and does not make it hard to group or anything. Plenty of games like FFXIV have them, why not here?

The answer is, (and to some other suggestions here, which I do think are good) is that, it's a 9 year old game, and there are a lot of people who play it who don't haunt the forums.  Totally taking away the followers system, assuming it even can be done without game-breaking bugs and issues, also totally removes it's functionality from people who appreciate it and use it well.  If nothing else, it will take a lot longer to implement, and require a great deal of advertising, so people know to reach out to people so as not to lose contacts.  And since you don't know who is following YOU, you might suddenly lose people you wanted to stay in contact with (and who might happily accept a friend invitation, but aren't playing right now or some such).  That's just going to create a lot of anger and requests to change it back.  Whereas, addressing the specific ways it's been abused, with small, local fixes - a toggle to hide your name plate, the option to kick someone off your followers list, the option not to show your character name or location - is not only much more doable with an old game, it doesn't upend (and break) established structures.

Edited November 18, 2021 by Lyssia.4637

[Charall.4710]

5 hours ago, Lyssia.4637 said:

The answer is, (and to some other suggestions here, which I do think are good) is that, it's a 9 year old game, and there are a lot of people who play it who don't haunt the forums.  Totally taking away the followers system, assuming it even can be done without game-breaking bugs and issues, also totally "removes it's functionality from people who appreciate it and use it well."

And that right there is part of the problem, those who use it well? Great and thank you, you are amazing individuals and I appreciate you for it.

But there are a lot of people who do not use it well, a lot of people who use it maliciously and it is a tool for stalking just as much as it is for the few with good intentions. I'll give you an example, while my friend is gone and yes I am angry about that. I also have experienced misuse of this system and anyone that has can tell you its gotta go.

I blocked a player in game after we had a disagreement and I moved on, only to find out he had been adding me to his friendslist to know where I am and come to find me around other friends so he could kitten talk me to them.

Harassment is not always direct, stalking is not always direct, and systems like these are baffling when they are implemented.

Edited November 18, 2021 by Dravvi.3146

[Charall.4710]

14 hours ago, PeachyPleasure.8049 said:

I think this could be a good solution too. I am supporting any idea which gives a vareity of options for players to customize how they want to interact with other players.

They could also give various options to OP's original idea about Friend requests: you could decide whether you want to filter people yourself or simply accept requests automatically.

Hiding nameplates is more useful than just for keeping things private, if its a toggleable option for wvw for example.. well, imagine the frame rate increases xD

[carey.3169]

Similar threads have been posted many times like this,  i  have also posted a similar one requesting a change like we had in GW1 , which has just a friends list and it works, no need for followers who you don't know, or don't like and cannot removed, let friends actually be friends. Come on everyone, please keep this thread alive for change, soo people don't have to appear offline, turn off chat stuff like that,  Keep posting for change and hope someone from Anet will respond ☠️  Its nice to escape real life dramas  and relax and  enjoy your favourite mmo

[Charall.4710]

2 hours ago, carey.3169 said:

Similar threads have been posted many times like this,  i  have also posted a similar one requesting a change like we had in GW1 , which has just a friends list and it works, no need for followers who you don't know, or don't like and cannot removed, let friends actually be friends. Come on everyone, please keep this thread alive for change, soo people don't have to appear offline, turn off chat stuff like that,  Keep posting for change and hope someone from Anet will respond ☠️  Its nice to escape real life dramas  and relax and  enjoy your favourite mmo

I really do not know why more people cannot come to the same sentiment, but I agree with you 100% of the way there. Being offline sucks, but people would rather let a thread die than see anet take action. Tbh I am not willing to let this thread die until Anet responds.

Edited November 19, 2021 by Dravvi.3146

[kharmin.7683]

3 hours ago, Dravvi.3146 said:

 Tbh I am not willing to let this thread die until Anet responds.

Possibly you've not been around on the forums for too long?  Anet rarely, rarely responds to threads.  I mean rarely. 

Just be careful that you don't continually bump this thread for their attention as that would violate the forums CoC.

[quietonewisp.4316]

I was actively stalked in game. Despite blocking them, they could see my location and follow me around. I found it very unsettling, and I made a second account just so I could get away from them. Eventually they gave up and left me alone. It wouldn't hurt to have slightly more robust ways of blocking people in game.

[Charall.4710]

9 hours ago, quietonewisp.4316 said:

I was actively stalked in game. Despite blocking them, they could see my location and follow me around. I found it very unsettling, and I made a second account just so I could get away from them. Eventually they gave up and left me alone. It wouldn't hurt to have slightly more robust ways of blocking people in game.

In the current state of the game, all one can do is really hold out which is something that is unacceptable really.. that should not be the only recourse.

[Linken.6345]

4 minutes ago, Dravvi.3146 said:

In the current state of the game, all one can do is really hold out which is something that is unacceptable really.. that should not be the only recourse.

Still even if they follow you from map to map while being blocked.

What can they really do to you?

Edit

Is this because we are in good times and good times creates weak people?

Then maybe the hard times should come back and start the cycle over already.

Edited November 19, 2021 by Linken.6345

[Charall.4710]

3 minutes ago, Linken.6345 said:

Still even if they follow you from map to map while being blocked.

What can they really do to you?

Stalking creates a feeling of unease, harassing people you make friends with will cause those you make friends with to feel uneasy as well. The list goes on and on, I encourage you to look up what victims of stalkers have to deal with.

Edited November 19, 2021 by Dravvi.3146

[Charall.4710]

On 11/18/2021 at 1:53 PM, Dravvi.3146 said:

Harassment is not always direct, stalking is not always direct, and systems like these are baffling when they are implemented.

Based on the Emoji's in this post I get the idea that people seem to not understand the simple super basic concept of indirect harassment or otherwise.

[AgentMoore.9453]

20 hours ago, Linken.6345 said:

Is this because we are in good times and good times creates weak people?

Then maybe the hard times should come back and start the cycle over already.

This is a toxic take, and I'm not a person who typically uses that word.

Calling other people weak because you don't understand their situation or value their feelings is pretty much as cold as you can get, especially when what's being asked for is basic or standard in most online social spaces. Being willing to endure bad actors on the internet (or anywhere) doesn't make you stronger or better, it just makes your sensibilities different and also isn't a good argument against improving the GW2 social systems.

[Ashen.2907]

On 11/15/2021 at 4:55 AM, Dravvi.3146 said:

For many years now gw2 has had a serious problem with people harassing others in one form or another, the GM's typically ignore the problematic players and target the ones trying to defend themselves. 

 

Any evidence to support this?

 

In order for you to know what the GM's do, "typically," you would need to be familiar with the details of a large percentage of cases. If this issue has been as serious, meaning widespread rather than the occasional one-off, as you claim then you would need to have first hand knowledge of many such cases. Your first hand knowledge of hundreds, or thousands, of such cases would make it easy for you to support your assertions with evidence...and yet you have not done so.

[Linken.6345]

1 hour ago, AgentMoore.9453 said:

This is a toxic take, and I'm not a person who typically uses that word.

Calling other people weak because you don't understand their situation or value their feelings is pretty much as cold as you can get, especially when what's being asked for is basic or standard in most online social spaces. Being willing to endure bad actors on the internet (or anywhere) doesn't make you stronger or better, it just makes your sensibilities different and also isn't a good argument against improving the GW2 social systems.

Yea I dident say I was strong tho did I?

If it was hard times even I a cubby internet person would not be on the forums arguing against people who cant even see a person they blocked.

So it cant talk to them in any way only jump up and down near them.

Is not a huge problem like they perceive it to be.

I got quite afew people blocked myself and the only way I know one is near me is if Im a commander and ask them a question they stay silent and I kick out of squad.

Then get a reaction in chat that they did reply.

Ignore them and they go away.

As said ignorance is bliss right?

[captrowdy.9561]

On 11/17/2021 at 7:59 AM, Embered.5089 said:

WvW is one of the more toxic parts of gw2. That's natural, since it's pvp. I rarely play WvW, and I've never had anyone harass me over PM or mail. Occasionally it happens through map chat, and the block function is sufficient for me.

If the follower's option is opt-in, that would be fine for me. As long as it's not completely removed. I mentor people often, and I have many mentee followers. It would be bad if I had to add all of them just so they had my name to ask me questions. My actual friends would be buried under all of those mentees.

The few times that I've heard people complain about harassment that the block function couldn't solve were all from WvWers. It's fine if things were implemented to reduce WvW harassment, so long as they don't affect PvE players.

Why not just make all WvW enemies nameless? They could all just say "[Faction] Enemy" (where the "faction" is the team they're on) instead of what their character name is. Then even if you got salty at someone, you wouldn't know who to message. I think that's a better solution. Can also remove map chat in WvW, so the most map-wide chat that you can use is team chat.

No absolutely not. Some folks like a little friendly smack talk and competition. It’s fun going up against the same player and recognizing them.