Elite Spec Poll On Which Classes Took The Biggest Hit & Benefitted The Most (Hopefully Anets takes these numbers into consideration)

[AikijinX.6258]

I can only hope that this poll is helpful in accumulating data. 

And I can only ask that Anet does truly look and observe these numbers 

Edited November 25, 2021 by AikijinX.6258

[Raknar.4735]

This poll would make more sense after the beta.

[AikijinX.6258]

Just now, Raknar.4735 said:

This poll would make more sense after the beta.

There's no time limit on the poll, so it will not close. So it'll be here :). And i'll bump if needed

[ThrakathNar.4537]

I think it would be more representative of the overall data if this poll allowed you to select multiple options, as if there is a spec that everyone agrees suffered second-most overall, it would hardly be represented.

 

Having said that, I do think the split of data so far accurately lines up with my perception of the patch notes.

Will be interesting to see how true that is when the beta rolls around.

[Infusion.7149]

Initial impression of the patch notes:
* Specter potentially lost most of its support when using Scepter+Pistol (now single target) so I don't think you would run this weaponset. However, it was 45K DPS on Scepter+Dagger.

* Mechanist's mech did 5-7K DPS without boons, so worst case you are looking at 35K+ DPS in PVE for condi. Not really sure why someone would run this in PVP or WVW though. Even if the overclock signet cooldown was reduced along with crash down it leaves multiple weaknesses in competitive modes.

* Virtuoso probably lost a bit of DPS. It gained unblockable after dodge , evade, or block and blade generation outside of combat but you still have to blow skills just to gain unblockable. The damage in competitive modes wasn't increased overall other than dagger 3 which is so slow it won't hit moving targets so I don't think it will be as strong as it is slated to be as a power spec.

* Bladesworn probably became stronger in PvP/WvW due to the faster charging. Due to reduction in peak damage in PVE it probably has high burst but when you account for a 5s breakbar exposed it still would do ~160K instead of ~400K but in half the time.

* Harbinger was cut down in torment output and had blight bonuses added. Due to loss of healing it will be glassy.

Most buffed are untamed (removal of 15% damage loss in Unleash pet ,1s unleash cooldown,  unleash ambush skills buff , improved pet controls), catalyst (orb and sphere changes) , and willbender (all tradeoffs removed , condi given some support). Vindicator is slightly improved from a QoL standpoint (the alliance legends don't flip on their own).

[Puck.3697]

im suprised so many think Willbender is going to take the largest benefit from the changes.

Willbenders Loss of Vanguard Tactics basically makes any positive changes in Competitive modes worthless realistically.. they just shredded more sustain from a specc that was having major problems with not instantly dying. and nothing to fix Several core issues to the proffession which conflicts with the designs.

I'd say Untamed by paper so far looks to take the largest improvement.

Unleashed is no Longer Exclusive to hammer (this is massive) from a gameplay point of view this will Really make the unleashed mechanic happen... the new longbow unleashed allows a Ranger to potientally use Rapid Fire TWICE in a row instantly. Boon removal on GS Also?.. this could make the LB / GS Roaming build very strong in what it can really do.

the new traits defintly give condi options.

Unleashed as a mechanic looks far more practical.

 

[AikijinX.6258]

26 minutes ago, Daddy.8125 said:

Ranger to potientally use Rapid Fire TWICE in a row instantly

Wait what for real ?! Oh man. I gotta start paying attention to other professions instead of solely listening to Thief section and tuning out. 

[Puck.3697]

15 minutes ago, AikijinX.6258 said:

Wait what for real ?! Oh man. I gotta start paying attention to other professions instead of solely listening to Thief section and tuning out. 

yeah xD.

The New unleashed mechanic now gives ambush skills, the one for longbow. Reduces All Longbow Abilities for each target hit, 3 seconds for the first and 1 Per target hit after. which effectively means u can Drop all ur bow CDs for 7 Seconds.. Ambush Skills are also on like a Super Low CD also so it'd rly Increase the pace of LB Burst.

Untamed is rly shaping up to be a SPVP God realistically but we need to wait til wave 4 to see how much stronger its got. 

Edited November 26, 2021 by Daddy.8125

[Dawanarth.4601]

On 11/25/2021 at 9:35 AM, AikijinX.6258 said:

There's no time limit on the poll, so it will not close. So it'll be here :). And i'll bump if needed

I think it would be more interesting to close it right before the beta and open another for the beta, then we can compare the difference

[Dawanarth.4601]

Vindicator: The changes were needed, but for the Alliance the change were to drastic and removed what the Alliance was supposed to be, which is a energy based skill with switching effect

Now it's just  a third legend you can focus.

Previously: When you used the Skill switch it did a full switch (B=Viktor, R=Archemorus), What happened was that if you were in BRRBR and you switched you would end up as RBBRB. While if you used the healing skill, you go from BRRBR to RRRBR

 

Instead I would have had the F2/Energy Meld become Archemorus and F3 become Saint Viktor (+ an additional effect, most likely healing), when you use those skill you switch all skills toward either Archemorus or St. Viktor -> BRRBR to either BBBBB or RRRRR

But the Switch would still still happen upon use

But right now they made it so that you can only have BBBBB or RRRRR and the skills don't switch on their own, but rather on  a button that is unused when not used with the Legendary Alliance

[AikijinX.6258]

What do you guys think were the winners and losers, place your vote 😊

[Kodama.6453]

Power mechanist got nuked out of existence, lmao. Biggest loser of this beta iteration.

Untamed benefited amazingly.

[AikijinX.6258]

5 minutes ago, Kodama.6453 said:

Power mechanist got nuked out of existence, lmao. Biggest loser of this beta iteration.

Untamed benefited amazingly.

Did the damage really get nuked? kitten. Power still viable?

[Tails.9372]

7 hours ago, AikijinX.6258 said:

Did the damage really get nuked? kitten. Power still viable?

You're asking the wrong question. Almost everything is "viable" but yes, power machinist took a big hit (undeservingly so) and the nerf didn't even address the complaint they stated that they want to adress (that mechanist feels useless without the mech).

@"Which Elite Spec Took The Biggest Hit/Nerf In This Balance Patch"

Specter

[AikijinX.6258]

6 hours ago, Tails.9372 said:

You're asking the wrong question. Almost everything is "viable" but yes, power machinist took a big hit (undeservingly so) and the nerf didn't even address the complaint they stated that they want to adress (that mechanist feels useless without the mech).

@"Which Elite Spec Took The Biggest Hit/Nerf In This Balance Patch"

Specter

You cannot deny that power mechanist output insane amount of DPS. I don’t agree with the change to the stat conversion trait, but it definitely needed to be tweaked down A LITTLE, not that much. The mech pretty much made Specter shroud obsolete. 
 

and this is unrelated but some of the mech’s projectiles even went thru smoke screen and dagger storm. And none of the skills, I checked had unblockable descriptions on it when I checked the damage and skill log for which unblockable projectile went through 

[Tails.9372]

28 minutes ago, AikijinX.6258 said:

You cannot deny that power mechanist output insane amount of DPS.

In sPvP which was offset by an exploitable AI. Power mechs in PvE however where far from being strong enough where such a nerf would have been justifiable.

28 minutes ago, AikijinX.6258 said:

The mech pretty much made Specter shroud obsolete. 

???

Specter shroud being extreamly lackluster is what made it obsolete, nothing else. At best you can try to argue that support mech made support specter obsolete but you were asking about power mech, not support.

Edited December 1, 2021 by Tails.9372

[Duke Blackrose.4981]

Vindicator went from actually unplayable to an actually foundationally coherent spec. So, I'd call them the big winners. But Harbinger, Catalyst, Willbender, and Untamed also saw major design improvements.

[aymnad.9023]

I will not vote for any. I am sorry but this has no value. When I look at the votes after such a short period of time it seems obvious to me that :

1) People did not test the patch for the new e-spec and will not have time to play all 9. Even when I was playing 15 + pvp games and doing 5+ rotations on 2 different build for an espec I was far from mastering it (only doing that already takes such a long time when you have to do your usual raids, pvp, wvw the same week so I cannot blame them).

2) As a consequence a lot of people did only look at the patch and said “this e-spec A got more changes or the values increased  while e-spec B values decreased”. It does not matter if some B had broken values to begin with and A was under whelming/performing or even if A is still inferior to B.

Edited December 1, 2021 by aymnad.9023

[AikijinX.6258]

4 hours ago, Tails.9372 said:

In sPvP which was offset by an exploitable AI. Power mechs in PvE however where far from being strong enough where such a nerf would have been justifiable.

???

Specter shroud being extreamly lackluster is what made it obsolete, nothing else. At best you can try to argue that support mech made support specter obsolete but you were asking about power mech, not support.

I will not disagree with your point about Shroud being lackluster. But I was solely speaking in regard to Power spec. I did not mention Support spec at all nor am I arguing for it. In beta 3 Full power stat DPS mechanists (players) made their Mechs OP STRONG. Which shredded through specter shroud like butter.

In one instance I was dueling a mechanist and it’s mech and I had full shroud. We started the duel, I targeted the mechanist (player)and started bursting them, immediately afterwards, I was dazed or stunned (which ever one, I forgot) but I tapped into shroud and it was shredded by the mech in 1.5 seconds. To beat the player I had to run Anti Projectile (even when some of the projectiles did go through the projectile hate skills) I used (Smoke screen, Daggerstorm, Preparation Seal) I was then able to trap the Mech inside the seal preparation and deal with the Mechanist himself in that time, but if not, I had my other projectile hate skills as well as stealth and shroud. But once the Mech was free, it unloaded and shredded my Shroud. 
 

Fighting Support mechs were fine, they didn’t do enough dmg to shred my shroud and was just very trivial in general to handle. No issues fighting them. 
 

I will say again, I still don’t think it was a good move to nerf and take away your Stat conversion/share trait, AND nerf the dmg.

[AikijinX.6258]

I really should make a post beta 4 poll 

[Buran.3796]

   Vindicator went from being unable to compete vs Herald in PvP as a 1+ but had good potential as a bruiser with the third evade trait (the only one which did  cost 50 endurance as the rest of the classes/builds on the game, and the only jump which was used by players in the second beta) to being cornered in a single no stackable dodge as the Mirage but the only one which needs 100 endurance to gets access to it. You literaly need to stack Song of Arboreum + Unwavering Avoidance + energy sigils just to be a quarter of what everyone is in terms of evades, and after thet jump (which doesn't provide i-frames for the full 2 seconds in the air) is a sitting duck.

   Aside for that greatsword damage got buffed so ANet can nerf it after the release when everyone (fairly) starts to moan about Eternity's Requiem being a AoE carpet bombing which kills people randomly with no skill required. The changes in the control of The Alliance legend made it better, but is still worse than Shiro/Jalis/Mallyx at any game mode, so people won't use it, anyway.

  So how I would value the changes, overall? They made it better at PvE, where still has no chance to compete vs condi Renegade or alacrigade, and nuked it at PvP/Roaming where it has less dps potential than Herald but could have worked as a bruiser/tank. For me, is a loss.

[Joxer.6024]

On 12/4/2021 at 8:30 AM, Buran.3796 said:

   Vindicator went from being unable to compete vs Herald in PvP as a 1+ but had good potential as a bruiser with the third evade trait (the only one which did  cost 50 endurance as the rest of the classes/builds on the game, and the only jump which was used by players in the second beta) to being cornered in a single no stackable dodge as the Mirage but the only one which needs 100 endurance to gets access to it. You literaly need to stack Song of Arboreum + Unwavering Avoidance + energy sigils just to be a quarter of what everyone is in terms of evades, and after thet jump (which doesn't provide i-frames for the full 2 seconds in the air) is a sitting duck.

   Aside for that greatsword damage got buffed so ANet can nerf it after the release when everyone (fairly) starts to moan about Eternity's Requiem being a AoE carpet bombing which kills people randomly with no skill required. The changes in the control of The Alliance legend made it better, but is still worse than Shiro/Jalis/Mallyx at any game mode, so people won't use it, anyway.

  So how I would value the changes, overall? They made it better at PvE, where still has no chance to compete vs condi Renegade or alacrigade, and nuked it at PvP/Roaming where it has less dps potential than Herald but could have worked as a bruiser/tank. For me, is a loss.

dangit...really want this to be strong for PVE.  maybe still hope...??

[AikijinX.6258]

Thank you guys for participating in the Poll. 😄

[Buran.3796]

3 hours ago, Joxer.6024 said:

dangit...really want this to be strong for PVE.  maybe still hope...??

   Will be stronger than power Herald at PvE, but I don't care about because both condi Herald and condi Renegade will outperform Vindicator at that task with no effort and much better sustain...

[Joxer.6024]

2 hours ago, Buran.3796 said:

   Will be stronger than power Herald at PvE, but I don't care about because both condi Herald and condi Renegade will outperform Vindicator at that task with no effort and much better sustain...

Again, if this is true, thats sad for a new shiny  Elite...i mean what's the point then? But still have a gut feeling 10 man buffs are going the way of the dodo, we shall see. 

Just let Vindi be Power, Ren can be the Condi king and Herald does what it does...3 choices! 😉

Edited December 13, 2021 by Joxer.6024