Garbinger is harbage

[Flumek.9043]

TLDR  problems:

1)  No class mechanic,  lifeforce is irrelevant.

I dont like bunkers - but whole point was trading 20k shroud defense for permanent 500 hps regen. THAT was the mechanic.... Tweak the numbers and let the baddies deal with the lifeforce managment.

2)  Traits still linear and boring.

Compared to reaper, who has 3 completely mechaincs to achieve 3 different things, harb just has 1 passive pulse aura.... yei.... and its melee on a ranged spec.

2.5)  Pistol and shroud #12 and #12  are identical and boring

You just pew pew for dmg

3) POWER HARBINGER

Its a meme, above points dont give you anything to work with. Also core power weapons dont help much.

4)  BLIGHT  is not worth it

Juggle half your health for a small damage modifier.  Weak.  And boring with above lackluster skills.

5) Elixir icons are ugly

The targeting adds depth, just please dont make me look at them.  If you cant afford animations, at least make the 40x40 pixel art decent.

Edited December 1, 2021 by Flumek.9043

[Doctor Hide.6345]

I don't get the pistol the complaints. I think pew pew is ok and not boring really. The reason I want to play Harbinger is for the gun and to see it actually used, so pew pew for damage is good in my book because there is no point to the pistol if you don't use it like an actual gun. Not every animation has to be fancy and over the top stupid levels.

[misterman.1530]

Yeah. I'm totally regretting pre-purchasing the ultimate edition. Man, what a waste of money if Harbinger ends up being this crappy.

[Flumek.9043]

34 minutes ago, Doctor Hide.6345 said:

I don't get the pistol the complaints. I think pew pew is ok and not boring really. The reason I want to play Harbinger is for the gun and to see it actually used, so pew pew for damage is good in my book because there is no point to the pistol if you don't use it like an actual gun. Not every animation has to be fancy and over the top stupid levels.

Think how EVERY  pistol engie plays since 2013.

900 range, 321111 .....

 

ALL 3x skills on the weapon have the same role.  Damage. 

No reposition. No timing. No setup with big payoff....you just fire 2 stronger bullets between your 10x average bullets.

 

Its like playing a turret.

You pew pew , turn brain of, and hope enemy lets you freecast. No interaction. That is problem with pistol, its not clunky, just 5x skills meant for same 1x job. 

Example, think how many different decisions you need to make when playing dagger/pistol thief 

[Obtena.7952]

The pistol is the KEAST problematic part of  Harb. I mean, what MORE could you want it to do?

It's ranged, applies condi DPS and useful non-DPS condis and direct damage . It has a short CD stun and has LF regen. That's a pretty HEAVILY loaded weaponset IMO. 

 

Edited December 1, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[Doctor Hide.6345]

25 minutes ago, Flumek.9043 said:

Think how EVERY  pistol engie plays since 2013.

900 range, 321111 .....

 

ALL 3x skills on the weapon have the same role.  Damage. 

No reposition. No timing. No setup with big payoff....you just fire 2 stronger bullets between your 10x average bullets.

 

Its like playing a turret.

You pew pew , turn brain of, and hope enemy lets you freecast. No interaction. That is problem with pistol, its not clunky, just 5x skills meant for same 1x job. 

Example, think how many different decisions you need to make when playing dagger/pistol thief 

 

Yes, I do know how Engi pistol plays which is why I like the Harbinger one more. P/P skills on engi are barely used most of the time really because you use the kits more with grenade, bomb, flame, etc over the actual guns which is a slim part of the rotation. That is why I like the pistol on Harbinger more because the gun is more up front and used.

 

There is nothing wrong  with the same role as damage. You don't need timing or setup etc since it is a gun. A pistol is supposed to shoot things and not be fancy.  If you want fancy, use a melee weapon instead for that, so 5x skills for 1 job is perfect for the pistol.

 

As for thief d/p, that is why I don't care for it really besides being for PvP. It's not really used like how a pistol should be used which I mean just shooting things in the face. I take it a lot of your issues come from a PvP view while I see things more as a PvE side more in which pistol is fine for Harbi. It doesn't need to be changed because it is fine as is animation tactical wise since really it might be the only PvE spec that uses it as main hand for almost all it's builds since engi is mostly kit spamming and P/P Thief is a joke.

[Asum.4960]

6 hours ago, Obtena.7952 said:

The pistol is the KEAST problematic part of  Harb. I mean, what MORE could you want it to do?

It's ranged, applies condi DPS and useful non-DPS condis and direct damage . It has a short CD stun and has LF regen. That's a pretty HEAVILY loaded weaponset IMO. 

 

The problem isn't really what it does, but how it does it. 

 

It's boring to play. 

Even compared to Scepter, which already isn't the most interesting weapon which basically just does damage, it at least has a clear Auto Attack chain with payoff in the end, accompanied by distinct sound effects. A ground targeted skill to add something else to the kit, and a satisfying 3 skill which rewards building up condis on a Target as set up and situational use for boon Corruption, and again giving you a satisfying crunch sound effect to land. 

 

What Pistol does is fine (although I wouldn't call damage, a bit of Vuln and CC "heavily loaded", considering other classes get mobility, blocks, invulns, evades, boons, combo fields and finishers and so on on their weapons), but all three skills are just "shoot tab targeted bullet". No attack chain to count with payoff, no skills with setup or thought, nothing ground or line targeted to break the monotony, nothing, just press button, gun goes pew *3. 

Just adding an Auto Attack Chain and making Vile Blast ground targeted would already do wonders to make it more interesting. No extra effects needed (other than maybe giving 100% combo finisher to Weeping Shots).

 

I agree on that it's the least of Harbinger's problems though, not that that's saying much.

Edited December 2, 2021 by Asum.4960

[Obtena.7952]

11 minutes ago, Asum.4960 said:

The problem isn't really what it does, but how it does it. 

 

It's boring to play. 

Even compared to Scepter, which already isn't the most interesting weapon which basically just does damage, it at least has a clear Auto Attack chain with payoff in the end, accompanied by distinct sound effects. A ground targeted skill to add something else to the kit, and a satisfying 3 skill which rewards building up condis on a Target as set up and situational use for boon Corruption, and again giving you a satisfying crunch sound effect to land. 

 

What Pistol does is fine (although I wouldn't call damage, a bit of Vuln and CC "heavily loaded", considering other classes get mobility, blocks, evades, combo fields and finishers and so on on their weapons), but all three skills are just "shoot tab target bullet". No attack chain to count with payoff, no skills with setup or thought, nothing ground or line targeted to break the monotony, nothing, just press button, gun goes pew *3. 

Just adding a Auto Attack Chain and making Vile Blast ground targeted would already do wonders to make it more interesting. No extra effects needed (other than maybe giving 100% combo finisher to Weeping Shots).

 

I agree on that it's the least of Harbinger's problems though, not that that's saying much.

Sure .. but how exciting can it be? I mean, it's a three action weapon that is JAMMED with things that it has to have on it for the spec to work. I mean, I don't expect much from the weapon itself as for being 'fun' ... if the intent of the spec is to build DPS with Blight, you are spending as much time in Shroud as possible anyways

Could have an auto attack chain. It wouldn't hurt but I don't think it raises the 'fun' level so much that it's worth the effort especially since it's unlikely it would interact with other skills in a significant way. 

Edited December 2, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[Krysard.1364]

pretty much sums it up. lf rly feels pointless now

[JusticeRetroHunter.7684]

4 hours ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Sure .. but how exciting can it be? I mean, it's a three action weapon that is JAMMED with things that it has to have on it for the spec to work. I mean, I don't expect much from the weapon itself as for being 'fun' ... if the intent of the spec is to build DPS with Blight, you are spending as much time in Shroud as possible anyways

Could have an auto attack chain. It wouldn't hurt but I don't think it raises the 'fun' level so much that it's worth the effort especially since it's unlikely it would interact with other skills in a significant way. 

 

There are plenty of ways to make skills exciting. It's a game design issue, and all the specs suffer from this lack of imagination in what the skills could potentially do. The class themes are cool, but all the skills do the same thing...they are like other people mentioned just damage skills...give or take a boon here a condition there.

It all starts and ends with interaction and how those skills interact with other skills...Instead you have skills that are like... just the opposite of this concept of interaction...they try to AVOID interacting with other aspects of their class.

Edited December 2, 2021 by JusticeRetroHunter.7684

[GalYurrr.5481]

I know it's a minor complaint, but the repetitive sound of the pistol shooting constantly really started to get on my nerves after less than 20mins.  It will actually drive me towards using other specs/weapons.  I think all 3 abilities just being pew pew (and sounding the same) like you say exacerbates the issue further.  Some more unique/Necro sounding effects would go a long way to help it feel more in theme.

 

I hope the name Garbinger catches on, that's good. xD

[XECOR.2814]

19 minutes ago, GalYurrr.5481 said:

I know it's a minor complaint, but the repetitive sound of the pistol shooting constantly really started to get on my nerves after less than 20mins.  It will actually drive me towards using other specs/weapons.  I think all 3 abilities just being pew pew (and sounding the same) like you say exacerbates the issue further.  Some more unique/Necro sounding effects would go a long way to help it feel more in theme.

 

I hope the name Garbinger catches on, that's good. xD

It is well known that necro does not get resources allotted for animations, qol and sound effects.

Edited December 2, 2021 by XECOR.2814

[felincyriac.5981]

what is even the point of this spec? 

[Axl.8924]

10 hours ago, Asum.4960 said:

The problem isn't really what it does, but how it does it. 

 

It's boring to play. 

Even compared to Scepter, which already isn't the most interesting weapon which basically just does damage, it at least has a clear Auto Attack chain with payoff in the end, accompanied by distinct sound effects. A ground targeted skill to add something else to the kit, and a satisfying 3 skill which rewards building up condis on a Target as set up and situational use for boon Corruption, and again giving you a satisfying crunch sound effect to land. 

 

What Pistol does is fine (although I wouldn't call damage, a bit of Vuln and CC "heavily loaded", considering other classes get mobility, blocks, invulns, evades, boons, combo fields and finishers and so on on their weapons), but all three skills are just "shoot tab targeted bullet". No attack chain to count with payoff, no skills with setup or thought, nothing ground or line targeted to break the monotony, nothing, just press button, gun goes pew *3. 

Just adding an Auto Attack Chain and making Vile Blast ground targeted would already do wonders to make it more interesting. No extra effects needed (other than maybe giving 100% combo finisher to Weeping Shots).

 

I agree on that it's the least of Harbinger's problems though, not that that's saying much.

 

It sounds like your issue is hte mobilitty and escapes and all that. I agree with what others have said that cc and dmg is part of what a weapon does is important as long as it combines the right amount of mobility and or ways to negate damage and heal to survive and do damage.

[Flumek.9043]

16 hours ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Sure .. but how exciting can it be? ... if the intent of the spec is to build DPS with Blight, you are spending as much time in Shroud as possible anyways

 

Pistol is just copy of scepter. Attack till death. Spam of cooldown.

 

 Does ANYTHING change, in your matchups, playstyle or decision making, if you equip pistol vs scepter ?

If answer is no, Im just saying I personally wouldve like more flavor and choice if we get a new weapon, since necro already has only 4 mainhands, 2 condi 2 power, so almost 0 real choice.

 

2) What can you put into a 3- slot ranged weapon?

I agree, double pistols for 5-slots would be best 🙂 I just cant see a glass canon working out with only dmg abilities

[Obtena.7952]

1 hour ago, Flumek.9043 said:

 Does ANYTHING change, in your matchups, playstyle or decision making, if you equip pistol vs scepter ?

I think it could be ... because pistol has additional LF regain, stun and other non-damaging Conditions on it .  I mean, yeah it's pretty similar to Scepter, no doubt there. I guess somoene optimization a rotation may see a difference. The average dude ... probably just facerolling. 

Edited December 2, 2021 by Obtena.7952

[Dr Meta.3158]

 

20 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

I think it could be ... because pistol has additional LF regain, stun and other non-damaging Conditions on it .  I mean, yeah it's pretty similar to Scepter, no doubt there. I guess somoene optimization a rotation may see a difference. The average dude ... probably just facerolling. 

It seems that it is moreso the case that scepter sucks.

[Drarnor Kunoram.5180]

1 hour ago, Flumek.9043 said:

 Does ANYTHING change, in your matchups, playstyle or decision making, if you equip pistol vs scepter ?

You need to be more concerned with projectile hate, but you do get another interrupt.  You can do less about boons, though.

Edited December 2, 2021 by Drarnor Kunoram.5180

[Aktium.9506]

I haven't really had time to test it this beta myself due to work, but I have a hard time imagining Harbinger working out well in any content outside of raids with literally no sustain in its kit.

The Power traitline still existing at all is absolutely criminal as well. Even the one guy I saw shilling for Power Harb last beta did so because of the health regen being really good. Well, that's gone. The Power traitline should just be replaced with either something that focuses on mobility, boonhate or increasing effects of Blight.

[Tobias.8632]

3 hours ago, Flumek.9043 said:

Pistol is just copy of scepter. Attack till death. Spam of cooldown.

 

 Does ANYTHING change, in your matchups, playstyle or decision making, if you equip pistol vs scepter ?

If answer is no, Im just saying I personally wouldve like more flavor and choice if we get a new weapon, since necro already has only 4 mainhands, 2 condi 2 power, so almost 0 real choice.

 

2) What can you put into a 3- slot ranged weapon?

I agree, double pistols for 5-slots would be best 🙂 I just cant see a glass canon working out with only dmg abilities

 

Uh, yeah, insane constant interrupts and cc on 3? Necro doesn't even have access to stun outside of reaper and now it's on a 12 second cooldown on a weapon skill that **** is nutty