PLEASE add a Chill condition to GS5 for Vindicator

[TheeBlackDeath.5692]

Overall I'm mostly happy with the changes they've made with the Vindicator, with exception to the support healer stance, but there is one vital change they should make to Vindicator and that is adding a Chill condition onto their 5th Greatsword skill, Eternity's Requiem.

It's a very small and simple change but there are quite a few of positive behind this change, aside from it making sense since you literally open up holes into the mists to damage your foes like other mist-related skills from Revenant, it should also allow for more crowd control and AOE options which is always welcome with a greatsword spec like this, not only will it allow you to slow enemies to help keep them together or close to you but can also help make further options for different builds in the form of adding a bit more condition damage applications via Abyssal Chill in the Corruption specialization, which really should help hybrid-condi and power builds thrive ultimately.

 

Another minor thing I'd love to see them add is possibly changing Vassals of the Empire or Forerunner of Death in the Vindicator specialization by adding a chilling aura around the user after they land to inflict extra chilling or torment onto nearby foes for at least 3 to 5 seconds max with possibly a life steal or regeneration option from it, Vassals already does have a chill effect when you hit foes with your dodge landing but I always felt like it was rather mediocre for the most part. If they were to revamp Saint of zu Heltzer with a viable lifesteal or regeneration aura or mist after you land that affects you and nearby allies then that would also be quite useful as well as it could add more options besides just being a mild boon bounce on your teammates.

Overall though I'm hoping for them to just add a Chill condi to GS5 however since it's all I'm really asking for, the other part is just a mild suggestion or idea and isn't totally required but would probably be good to see as well.

[Jthug.9506]

I’ll do you one better, make GS5 drop an ice field.

[Master Ketsu.4569]

GS5 is fine and needs no buffs. It does absurd damage, at the cost of having both a very obvious animation and red circle tells ( To prevent it from being busted in PvP ) If it also had CC on it, even soft CC, the skill would immediately become overpowered. The Point of GS5 is that you are supposed to combo it with another skill, and keep track of your opponents dodges for it to be good. These downsides are exactly how high damage skills should be balanced. It's good for the game for the same reason Ranger GS2 is good for the game. 

Unless you are talking about PvE, in which case, lmao PvE balance. 

 

 

Edited December 6, 2021 by Master Ketsu.4569

[Puck.3697]

Wouldn't suprise me if gs5s damage is nerfed in all honesty. The thing can hit for 15k in PvP. It's a very strong ability currently although in beta I did notice if players tried to teleport out from the ability it seemed to follow them and still hit which I'm unsure if was intentional or a bug. 

I can't see them adding chill to the ability though it might become too strong if you add too much to it. 

[Jthug.9506]

I can see the appeal for a the condi synergy, but it's true that GS5 is already at maximum effort, if you added chill or an ice field it would have to be toned down. On the other hand I do agree that it makes a lot of sense from a lore and flavor perspective. But in all honesty I love vindicator just the way it is right now, the only thing I seriously have an issue with is the spear of archamorus which is terribly unreliable and surprisingly weak for an elite.

[TheeBlackDeath.5692]

On 12/5/2021 at 11:03 PM, Master Ketsu.4569 said:

GS5 is fine and needs no buffs. It does absurd damage, at the cost of having both a very obvious animation and red circle tells ( To prevent it from being busted in PvP ) If it also had CC on it, even soft CC, the skill would immediately become overpowered. The Point of GS5 is that you are supposed to combo it with another skill, and keep track of your opponents dodges for it to be good. These downsides are exactly how high damage skills should be balanced. It's good for the game for the same reason Ranger GS2 is good for the game. 

Unless you are talking about PvE, in which case, lmao PvE balance. 

 

 

GS5 is actually one of the lackluster greatsword skills mainly for it's lack of flavor and decreasing damage with each mist burst it does, it'd only really be viable if it also applied a condition alongside the mist bursts. But ultimately the main reason why I want this change only is to enhance the spec overall with PVE AoE options, as I felt like it wasn't good enough even with it's new changes. Plus adding a chill is something so minor that you truly can't be against it especially if it makes sense and adds more build diversity, as chill itself doesn't solely increase damage of the skill.

18 hours ago, Daddy.8125 said:

Wouldn't suprise me if gs5s damage is nerfed in all honesty. The thing can hit for 15k in PvP. It's a very strong ability currently although in beta I did notice if players tried to teleport out from the ability it seemed to follow them and still hit which I'm unsure if was intentional or a bug. 

I can't see them adding chill to the ability though it might become too strong if you add too much to it. 

You do realize the damage of the mist bursts decrease damage the more they hit, right? It already nerfs itself the more damage you do with the mist bursts and is really only strong if you get hit by the first few hits by the ability. If they added Chill to the ability not only would it make the skill more viable but also make it pretty accurate to what the skill should be doing considering it's a mist-related skill. Not to mention the spec needs more applications for AoE and condi damage options anyway for more build diversity which is something you really can't truly be against if you genuinely want a better spec with better options for players.

16 hours ago, Jthug.9506 said:

I can see the appeal for a the condi synergy, but it's true that GS5 is already at maximum effort, if you added chill or an ice field it would have to be toned down. On the other hand I do agree that it makes a lot of sense from a lore and flavor perspective. But in all honesty I love vindicator just the way it is right now, the only thing I seriously have an issue with is the spear of archamorus which is terribly unreliable and surprisingly weak for an elite.

I also agree that the Spear elite is rather lackluster, I would personally like if they were to add a knockback to the skill as well while possibly increasing the pure damage of it by at least 5%. Normally I tend to use that skill before or after I use my GS5 skill to try and boost my damage with both of those skills though. However I can't imagine them adding an "ice field" to GS5, just adding a condi application with Chill would be all it needs in reality and wouldn't need to change very much at all.

[Puck.3697]

6 hours ago, ShadeOfEclipse.8931 said:

You do realize the damage of the mist bursts decrease damage the more they hit, right? It already nerfs itself the more damage you do with the mist bursts and is really only strong if you get hit by the first few hits by the ability. If they added Chill to the ability not only would it make the skill more viable but also make it pretty accurate to what the skill should be doing considering it's a mist-related skill. Not to mention the spec needs more applications for AoE and condi damage options anyway for more build diversity which is something you really can't truly be against if you genuinely want a better spec with better options for players

I am. But regardless to which it can still one shot a player, 15k DMG is ALOT of damage to get out of one CD. 

That's a crazy amount of DMG. 

[Jthug.9506]

You know looking around there’s lots of builds that can do 18k+ damage with one skill, so it’s actually not that crazy especially with it’s eye poppingly obvious tell that gives anyone who knows what they are looking at the opportunity to dodge and avoid all the pain.

[LucianTheAngelic.7054]

Chill on GS5 would be ideal for sure. +1 for the idea.  The GS kit entirely lacks hard CC so an extra soft CC would be nice to make up for that.  I wouldn’t mind not having a hard CC on GS if we had this third access to chill on it instead 

[Puck.3697]

4 hours ago, Jthug.9506 said:

You know looking around there’s lots of builds that can do 18k+ damage with one skill, so it’s actually not that crazy especially with it’s eye poppingly obvious tell that gives anyone who knows what they are looking at the opportunity to dodge and avoid all the pain.

I don't recall ever being hit for 18k DMG in all honesty.

I'm still putting my money on nerfs as every Anet partner is vocally saying it's broken AF directly to Devs on streams. 

Not even bladesworns dragon trigger hits as hard... And given the fact one consumes a entire resource highly telegraphed and roots you in place. I'd likely say its unintentional for it to hit this hard.

It can be defended as much as people want but I don't think it's going live at its current level

I loved vindicator and I want it to be strong like any other person intending to play rev, but I just don't think the people with the highest access to engage with Devs directly are agreeing with you. And that's likely going to result in these things not happening. 

 

Edited December 7, 2021 by Daddy.8125

[Jthug.9506]

What streams out of curiosity?

[Jthug.9506]

On 12/7/2021 at 12:47 PM, Daddy.8125 said:

I don't recall ever being hit for 18k DMG in all honesty.

I'm still putting my money on nerfs as every Anet partner is vocally saying it's broken AF directly to Devs on streams. 

Not even bladesworns dragon trigger hits as hard... And given the fact one consumes a entire resource highly telegraphed and roots you in place. I'd likely say its unintentional for it to hit this hard.

It can be defended as much as people want but I don't think it's going live at its current level

I loved vindicator and I want it to be strong like any other person intending to play rev, but I just don't think the people with the highest access to engage with Devs directly are agreeing with you. And that's likely going to result in these things not happening. 

 

18k deathly claws for instance. Although I think it was a vindicator doing GS5 that actually chunked him here ironically:

https://youtube.com/clip/UgkxQjjy-xBq7rnVWTJzS7hUvV3w6dEOZmp_

also warrior rifle burst:

Weaver burst:

Soulbeast burst:

Norn beastform: 

Deadeye:

I’m sure there’s many more.

Edited December 8, 2021 by Jthug.9506

[TheeBlackDeath.5692]

On 12/7/2021 at 6:54 AM, Daddy.8125 said:

I am. But regardless to which it can still one shot a player, 15k DMG is ALOT of damage to get out of one CD. 

That's a crazy amount of DMG. 

Fair point, however, the Chill itself would have to be from the mist bursts themselves if anything and not directly the attack, as it would make the most sense, and technically it wouldn't be increasing the overall damage of the ability too drastically either to be all that OP to add as well

Especially when ER's animation has a readable windup that most people are gonna dodge or block out of if they see it in PvP for the most part unless they get caught off guard, meanwhile this change seemingly only adds and boosts both of the AOE and CC options of the spec in PvE, which is rather needed considering how lacking it is compared to some other classes.

 

I still can't see any real negatives behind this very minor change that doesn't change the skill very much besides ultimately enhancing the spec overall to make a bit more viable for PvE especially.

[Puck.3697]

Just now, ShadeOfEclipse.8931 said:

Fair point, however, the Chill itself would have to be from the mist bursts themselves if anything and not directly the attack, as it would make the most sense, and technically it wouldn't be increasing the overall damage of the ability too drastically either to be all that OP to add as well

Especially when ER's animation has a readable windup that most people are gonna dodge or block out of if they see it in PvP for the most part unless they get caught off guard, meanwhile this change seemingly only adds and boosts both of the AOE and CC options of the spec in PvE, which is rather needed considering how lacking it is compared to some other classes.

 

I still can't see any real negatives behind this very minor change that doesn't change the skill very much besides ultimately enhancing the spec overall to make a bit more viable for PvE especially.

As I'm expecting the damage to get nerfed it wouldn't suprise me if they made up for it abit by adding chilled. 

I'd just be surprised if we get that level of DMG + chilled. 

[Infusion.7149]

There's chill on the engage skill (Phantom's Onslaught) as well as the auto chain. I wouldn't be surprised if this request is outright ignored.

[TheeBlackDeath.5692]

12 hours ago, Daddy.8125 said:

As I'm expecting the damage to get nerfed it wouldn't suprise me if they made up for it abit by adding chilled. 

I'd just be surprised if we get that level of DMG + chilled. 

Honestly I'd hope that'd be the case if the damage of the skill really is that bad in PvP, however I haven't noticed anything too outrageous about it so far.

[jpsssss.7530]

It doesn't have chill because people were clapping cheeks for 15k+ in WvW.

[Thon.3780]

If you need improve , just switch chill from auto Atk 2 to Atk1 . That will change attack momentum a lot.

Edited December 23, 2021 by Thon.3780

[phokus.8934]

22 hours ago, jpsssss.7530 said:

It doesn't have chill because people were clapping cheeks for 15k+ in WvW.

Doing a gs2+5 combo with all berserker I was doing at most 10k.  What is this secret sauce that you're doing 15k with?

Edited December 23, 2021 by phokus.8934

[LucianTheAngelic.7054]

With the lack of hard CC on GS it makes sense to add another source of (short) chill on it. Gs5 is the best and most thematic option for that.  The only other rev combos that entirely lack hard CC are x/S and at least both of those options have the ability to go x/A instead for the extra CC if they want it which is something that GS cannot do. 

[oscuro.9720]

On 12/23/2021 at 6:56 AM, phokus.8934 said:

Doing a gs2+5 combo with all berserker I was doing at most 10k.  What is this secret sauce that you're doing 15k with?

Not the person, but I got hit for a 13k gs5 on my warrior (2.4k armor), so it would certainly be unsurprising to see 15+ k. Would be nice if the 3 second charge skill they added hit that hard 😂

[draxynnic.3719]

I have a strong suspicion that ArenaNet has already experimented with Abyssal Chill on a multihit attack and decided it was too strong, and that's why Icerazor does cripple and vulnerability rather than chill. So I don't see it going on GS5. GS2, maybe, or cripple on GS5 instead.

[LucianTheAngelic.7054]

On 12/26/2021 at 10:15 PM, draxynnic.3719 said:

I have a strong suspicion that ArenaNet has already experimented with Abyssal Chill on a multihit attack and decided it was too strong, and that's why Icerazor does cripple and vulnerability rather than chill. So I don't see it going on GS5. GS2, maybe, or cripple on GS5 instead.

Icerazor likely isn't chill because it could theoretically be 20 stacks of torment on a single target on a condi focused spec that can also stack 50 bleed with its other utility.  In PvE ice razor having chill could disproportionately blow the dps numbers out simply off of a single skill (I don't think Icerazor would necessarily be a problem in PvP/WvW even if it had chill because of the rest of the skill's functionality (single target, CCable)).

In comparison, GS5 on Vindicator is 5 guaranteed + 9 random impacts possible (only 1 target each!), and only will hit the max number of times reliably on huge hitboxes.  In a pvp/wvw scenario you're looking at a likely 5-8 torment max (on one target) due to the way the skill works if people eat all of the guaranteed hits plus a few of the random hits (in reality this is fairly unlikely).  Also with the lack of Hard CC in the GS kit you're looking at it needing to be set up by other people or have to set it up with a legend CC generally.  For PvE, it would be 13 torment max, but Vindicator isn't going to be enabling PvE condi builds regardless as it doesn't provide anything for a good PvE condi build, so it's fine there. 

The only thing adding chill on GS5 does is help enable PvP/WvW hybrid and condi builds for vindicator.  You do have to sacrifice a fair amount of potential strike damage to make Abyssal Chill even work on the build (you are required to drop Devastation, Invocation, or Retribution to take Corruption and also have to then take Grieving, Viper, Celestial, or Trailblazer instead of Berserker/Marauder to get high enough condi damage to make it worthwhile).  Because of this drop in strike damage potential, I don't think it blows out the possible damage inordinately and as such it should be fine to implement.  GS5 with Chill would also help makeup for the lack of hard CC in the GS, which is something missing from Vindicator as a whole really and would be a welcome change due to that.  

Edited December 29, 2021 by LucianTheAngelic.7054

[Obtena.7952]

GS is already too similar to S/S ... so no, please do not add a Chill condition to it. 

[draxynnic.3719]

5-13 stacks might be less than 20, but it's still a lot to just tack onto a skill that also has decent power coefficients.

 

And if you put it on GS2 instead, it's a reliable chill every 3 seconds which can be used more reliably for CC in general, and provides synergy (follow up with the big GS5) rather than having your soft CC and big damage skill in the same skill. It's also easier to balance because it's easy to predict how many torment stacks have already been applied.

 

12 hours ago, Obtena.7952 said:

GS is already too similar to S/S ... so no, please do not add a Chill condition to it. 

That horse has already bolted. GS already chills on the autoattack. And the gap-closer. And, potentially, the jump.

 

Which is, IMO, a good thing. Putting a bit of chill on power weapons allows them to be not terrible with condi builds, which is important on a weaponswapping profession that only has one condition-oriented core set. If anything, hammer needs more chill for this reason.