Astralporing.1957 Posted January 27, 2022 Share Posted January 27, 2022 (edited) 4 hours ago, battledrone.8315 said: its not OWPVP, you can simply turn PVP off in options. just like in wow. the only remnants from the old game is the town upgrade system. It's not so simple. The issue is that since it was originally designed as OWPvP, or at least PvP focused, it is heavily lacking in the PvE department. It did start to add some things (and more are planned as well), but it's really hard to make such a turnaround after the game development has passed a certain point - and definitely not without some massive time investment (which is generally not something you can do with ease after the game has already launched). Perhaps, given 2-3 years, Amazon would be able to turn the situation around and make it into a decent PvE game, but even without considering bugs and unfinished/unpolished parts of the game, i honestly doubt they'd ever have that time. The first year is very important for a new game, and they wasted it with picking a bad original design direction. 4 hours ago, battledrone.8315 said: the fact, that a half baked attempt like that can waltz in and get over a million sales at launch also suggests, that there is plenty of market for a new mmo No. If it managed to retain those players, that would suggest there's plenty of market for new MMORPG. Like @Gibson.4036said, there's a lot of people that like to visit new games, but that does not automatically mean they intend to move there. Edited January 27, 2022 by Astralporing.1957 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
battledrone.8315 Posted January 28, 2022 Share Posted January 28, 2022 20 hours ago, Astralporing.1957 said: It's not so simple. The issue is that since it was originally designed as OWPvP, or at least PvP focused, it is heavily lacking in the PvE department. It did start to add some things (and more are planned as well), but it's really hard to make such a turnaround after the game development has passed a certain point - and definitely not without some massive time investment (which is generally not something you can do with ease after the game has already launched). Perhaps, given 2-3 years, Amazon would be able to turn the situation around and make it into a decent PvE game, but even without considering bugs and unfinished/unpolished parts of the game, i honestly doubt they'd ever have that time. The first year is very important for a new game, and they wasted it with picking a bad original design direction. No. If it managed to retain those players, that would suggest there's plenty of market for new MMORPG. Like @Gibson.4036said, there's a lot of people that like to visit new games, but that does not automatically mean they intend to move there. yep, but if they had delivered a finished game, it wouldnt had ended this way. its like going to a crappy party, and realizing, that it would had been more fun to stay at home. changing design is never easy, but they certainly had the bank to do so. but mr bezos prolly wanted that fat paycheck NOW. the sad part is , that it will prolly be the last BIG mmo. it will be hard to find investers after this failure. of course people wont stay, if its worse (or even on par) with the old game. but if they were totally happy, then they wouldnt even LOOK at new games, would they? it like the guy, who claims to be happily married, but still is flirting with other women. dont believe it. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibson.4036 Posted January 28, 2022 Share Posted January 28, 2022 7 hours ago, battledrone.8315 said: but if they were totally happy, then they wouldnt even LOOK at new games, would they? Except for the fact that it is impossible for one MMO studio to put out enough content to even keep moderately frequent players busy, apart from implementing artificial repetition for rewards. People pop into new MMOs because they are looking for something new to do for a while, even with no intent to shop for a new game to replace their old one. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Borked.6824 Posted January 28, 2022 Share Posted January 28, 2022 On 1/25/2022 at 3:55 PM, voltaicbore.8012 said: As has been noted several times in this thread (and elsewhere), GW2 is just not built the same way WoW/FFXIV/the other tab-target WoW clones are. Some believe that this choice to build a fundamentally different game was a mistake, and that is a reasonable position to have; trying things outside the tested/accepted formula is always a risky proposition. Are people calling for GW2 to restructure? That's not what I'm gathering. That aside, with the amount of pure disdain toward WoW right now, I'm sure people are ready to disassociate with the formula it stands as much as the game. GW2 doesn't need to change, it just needs to speak the kitten up. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibson.4036 Posted January 28, 2022 Share Posted January 28, 2022 45 minutes ago, Borked.6824 said: Are people calling for GW2 to restructure? That's not what I'm gathering. That aside, with the amount of pure disdain toward WoW right now, I'm sure people are ready to disassociate with the formula it stands as much as the game. GW2 doesn't need to change, it just needs to speak the kitten up. Agreed! Trying things outside an accepted formula is risky, but with 9 years of keeping the game going, I'd say it was a success. Even if they shut off the servers at the end of 2022, GW2 has proved there is an audience for an MMO that breaks out of some of the expectations of how MMOs are supposed to work. Where GW2 has had trouble over the years, IMO, is when it lost its original vision and tried to inject a little bit of the "accepted formula" to try and get the audience that likes that kind of thing to come back. I wonder what GW2 could have been if it had been allowed to be its own, bold self. 4 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astralporing.1957 Posted January 28, 2022 Share Posted January 28, 2022 1 hour ago, Borked.6824 said: That aside, with the amount of pure disdain toward WoW right now, I'm sure people are ready to disassociate with the formula it stands as much as the game. And yet the reason why WoW refugees go primarily towards FF XIV shows that what they want is exactly the same formula they are used to. They don't want to go for something else - they want the same thing, just done better. Or, to be more precise, they don't want the quality of the formula their game is feeding them to go down (which is exactly what happened with WoW) 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
voltaicbore.8012 Posted January 28, 2022 Share Posted January 28, 2022 (edited) 3 hours ago, Astralporing.1957 said: And yet the reason why WoW refugees go primarily towards FF XIV shows that what they want is exactly the same formula they are used to. They don't want to go for something else - they want the same thing, just done better. Or, to be more precise, they don't want the quality of the formula their game is feeding them to go down (which is exactly what happened with WoW) I agree. I think FFXIV's recent spike in interest and massive intake of WoW refugees is the clearest possible evidence that the same old MMO formula is, in fact, what large amounts of players actually want. As you say, Astral, they just want it executed better - which by all accounts FF seems to do, in terms of content pacing, players feeling valued, and old content being kept relevant, etc. The problem for GW2 is that it's just not in a good position to capitalize on that same old formula. As myself and many others (including ANet themselves) stated, GW2 was specifically designed not to be the standard MMO. Because so much of it falls outside of the same old formula, trying to make the game more generic now will likely result in (1) not being unique enough and (2) not being standard enough. People who like GW2 for being different won't be happy, and people looking for the standard MMO experience also won't like it. 3 hours ago, Gibson.4036 said: Where GW2 has had trouble over the years, IMO, is when it lost its original vision and tried to inject a little bit of the "accepted formula" to try and get the audience that likes that kind of thing to come back. I wonder what GW2 could have been if it had been allowed to be its own, bold self. For better or for worse, I also think this is the way to go for GW2. Edited January 28, 2022 by voltaicbore.8012 7 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
battledrone.8315 Posted January 30, 2022 Share Posted January 30, 2022 (edited) On 1/28/2022 at 2:43 PM, Gibson.4036 said: Except for the fact that it is impossible for one MMO studio to put out enough content to even keep moderately frequent players busy, apart from implementing artificial repetition for rewards. People pop into new MMOs because they are looking for something new to do for a while, even with no intent to shop for a new game to replace their old one. that would be the REASON for the fact. still doesnt change the fact, that it is happening, does it now? and the achievement feature is exactly such a system but people STILL jump to other games Edited January 30, 2022 by battledrone.8315 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
battledrone.8315 Posted January 30, 2022 Share Posted January 30, 2022 On 1/28/2022 at 4:27 PM, Gibson.4036 said: Agreed! Trying things outside an accepted formula is risky, but with 9 years of keeping the game going, I'd say it was a success. Even if they shut off the servers at the end of 2022, GW2 has proved there is an audience for an MMO that breaks out of some of the expectations of how MMOs are supposed to work. Where GW2 has had trouble over the years, IMO, is when it lost its original vision and tried to inject a little bit of the "accepted formula" to try and get the audience that likes that kind of thing to come back. I wonder what GW2 could have been if it had been allowed to be its own, bold self. AFAIK they had to change the "no levels" formula already in beta testing. and the disposable content idea from season 1? some ideas are only good on paper. some are not even that. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibson.4036 Posted January 30, 2022 Share Posted January 30, 2022 I’m definitely not suggesting they not learn from mistakes. That’s part of exploring something different. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibson.4036 Posted January 30, 2022 Share Posted January 30, 2022 (edited) 4 hours ago, battledrone.8315 said: that would be the REASON for the fact. still doesnt change the fact, that it is happening, does it now? But it happens with every single MMO, and is unavoidable. And it doesn’t mean people are looking for a divorce, to follow the marriage simile. Edited January 30, 2022 by Gibson.4036 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naxos.2503 Posted January 30, 2022 Share Posted January 30, 2022 I cant say they dont Communicate, they do, but like OP, I concur that no prospective new player is seeing it. Established players Are seeing it, provided they put in the time to research or constantly check the website, however I can say without a doubt that if you're not playing guild wars 2 or has played before but arent keeping tabs on it, you're missing all the info drops and trailers. I'm not seeing ads, I'm not seeing banners. I am seeing EoD mentionned in articles of MMos to look out for in 2022... among -many- other titles. It's being drowned by concurence, mostly because those articles fail to establish how different Gw2 Is compared to it's concurence, those articles are not even looking at most MMos they're listing in depths, they're just saying the equivalent of "It's cool". This is where I'd generally propose a solution, except I cant think of any. The market is just That saturated. Even more so when it comes to Q1 releases. If I take my own example there, not only are two MMos within my sphere of interest having major releases in February, a good number of non-MMo releases occur in February as well. And I'm a long time player who's followed the serie for a pretty long time, my attention is divided across all of those things, and it's becoming harder to maintain hype. It still has my interest, but again I am not a new player. A new player has All those other things releasing in Q1 I mentionned and isn't aware the game is noteworthy in any way because the media doesn't spend any time studying the game in depth. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mungrul.9358 Posted January 30, 2022 Share Posted January 30, 2022 Regarding the perceived success of New World, remember that we are currently in the middle of a global pandemic, and that the gaming industry as a whole has seen its financial success massively and positively distorted by the amount of people staying home and playing games. It'll be interesting to see how many of these success stories (New World & FFXIV included) manage to keep their momentum going once things begin to approach normal again. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarcShriek.5829 Posted January 30, 2022 Share Posted January 30, 2022 Apparently members of the band Lit used to work for Anet. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astralporing.1957 Posted January 31, 2022 Share Posted January 31, 2022 (edited) 21 hours ago, Mungrul.9358 said: It'll be interesting to see how many of these success stories (New World & FFXIV included) manage to keep their momentum going once things begin to approach normal again. I'd be very careful about calling New World a "success story". Initial reception doesn't mean much longterm. Remember, that Anthem had a very succesful initial launch (and we all know how it ended once people had time to actually get acquainted with that game), and FF XIV was originally an abyssmal failure. And that's even when we ignore how New World's initial reception is less than warm, mildly said. Edited January 31, 2022 by Astralporing.1957 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
voltaicbore.8012 Posted January 31, 2022 Share Posted January 31, 2022 (edited) 22 hours ago, Mungrul.9358 said: It'll be interesting to see how many of these success stories (New World & FFXIV included) manage to keep their momentum going once things begin to approach normal again. New World has already failed to keep this momentum: New World Failed, Big Time - YouTube It's certainly not full dead, but at the same time it's certainly not lived up to its hype by any means. For all the fault-finding we could do about GW2, it's certainly not one of the numerous failed launches that we've seen these past years in the MMO space. Edited January 31, 2022 by voltaicbore.8012 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
battledrone.8315 Posted February 1, 2022 Share Posted February 1, 2022 On 1/30/2022 at 3:22 PM, Mungrul.9358 said: Regarding the perceived success of New World, remember that we are currently in the middle of a global pandemic, and that the gaming industry as a whole has seen its financial success massively and positively distorted by the amount of people staying home and playing games. It'll be interesting to see how many of these success stories (New World & FFXIV included) manage to keep their momentum going once things begin to approach normal again. new world is a success? they have lost about 90% of the players already. if that is a success, i really wouldnt want to see what a failure looks like.. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
battledrone.8315 Posted February 1, 2022 Share Posted February 1, 2022 On 1/30/2022 at 1:59 PM, Gibson.4036 said: But it happens with every single MMO, and is unavoidable. And it doesn’t mean people are looking for a divorce, to follow the marriage simile. yep, it happens every time. you can almost call it a law of nature. i dont know about you, but i could prolly count the number of married and happy couples on one hand. people ARE looking for a divorce. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
battledrone.8315 Posted February 1, 2022 Share Posted February 1, 2022 19 hours ago, voltaicbore.8012 said: New World has already failed to keep this momentum: New World Failed, Big Time - YouTube It's certainly not full dead, but at the same time it's certainly not lived up to its hype by any means. For all the fault-finding we could do about GW2, it's certainly not one of the numerous failed launches that we've seen these past years in the MMO space. hyping the game so much was a big mistake, when it clearly wasnt ready for launch. and given the number of bugs and exploits, it would had failed even harder as a hardcore pvp title. if they want to turn it around, they have to do a FF revamp, and relaunch with fresh servers. and i doubt, that mr bezos has the patience for that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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