WvW Alliances will kill almost EVERY social interactions and friendships crafted over the past 9 years outside of your "main" WvW/Raid Guild and all Solo Players and small Guilds

[Tenga.5867]

This is the worst Anet could do to WvW since it

- will kill almost EVERY social interactions and friendships crafted over the past 9 years outside of your "main" WvW/Raid Guild and all Solo Players and small Guilds

- make it difficult to "get to know" eachother outside of your main guild

- will kill all little and valuable social interactions inbetween "not so known but still known" players

- does not think about EVERYTHING that happens outside of your WvW Guild in terms of Social interactions which WvW is known for.

- all small Guilds, Solo Players, little scirmishers and even known enemy interactions will be gone because it will be hard to embed and create those interactions with completely unknown players and those will change every MU (edit: i got it, it won't be every MU, but still every period. this does not change the fact it will be hard to build up social relationships outside of your chosen wvw guild/alliance)

- will destroy the "have to expect" thing in terms of "my actual server" vs "enemy server". -we knew who is on that enemy side, what their names are, what TAGs they had and what to expect from them. all this will be gone and can't be reestablished without having impact on

 

Social and friendship wise outside of your chosen guild, this is a complete nightmare.

Edited January 16, 2022 by Gilderin.4763

[Dawdler.8521]

1 hour ago, Gilderin.4763 said:

completely unknown players and those will change every MU

That's not how the world restructuring will work.

[Chaba.5410]

1 hour ago, Gilderin.4763 said:

- will destroy the "have to expect" thing in terms of "my actual server" vs "enemy server". -we knew who is on that enemy side, what their names are, what TAGs they had and what to expect from them. all this will be gone and can't be reestablished without having impact on

This IMHO is actually good.  It "keeps it fresh", as a guildmate last night put it.  We won't have players avoiding EBG at all costs when they get matched against Maguuma, for example.  We have to test our performance, exploratory pokes and prods against our opponents because outcomes are unknown and that's actually fun.

Edited January 15, 2022 by Chaba.5410

[Drendal.2085]

2 hours ago, Dawdler.8521 said:

That's not how the world restructuring will work.

thats how its working for me right now. not one single person i know on my WvW server right now.

[Dawdler.8521]

1 hour ago, Drendal.2085 said:

thats how its working for me right now. not one single person i know on my WvW server right now.

You said it changes every matchup. It doesnt. World restructuring is changing the way the world assignments work (ie new teams). A period of assignment is longer than a matchup. Currently with links it's 2 months, which is the same number they've said for the restructuring (7+1 weeks where 7 weeks you can freely choose your WvW guild but stay on the current team, then the last week the teams are locked for the next 8 week period where you get assigned to your new or stay with your old guild, and of course whichever alliance these are with).

[subversiontwo.7501]

5 hours ago, Gilderin.4763 said:

This is the worst Anet could do to WvW since it

- will kill almost EVERY social interactions and friendships crafted over the past 9 years outside of your "main" WvW/Raid Guild and all Solo Players and small Guilds

- make it difficult to "get to know" eachother outside of your main guild

- will kill all little and valuable social interactions inbetween "not so known but still known" players

This is what Alliances, the function, is meant to address when it comes. Alliances will be the option to create a mini-server out of multiple guilds. Guilds that can be solo guilds and small guilds but still gets the same ability to band together up to the 500 cap. The problem you describe only arises if the "valuable social interactions of secondary, not so known but aquainted or getting-to-know" players expand beyond 500. However, stacking things beyond 500 is what the very system is designed to stop. Complaining about that is tantamount to wanting population imbalances as long as they are in your favour. They can't build- or balance a game on your subjective whims.

That's why people keep pointing out that Alliances, the alliance function, is not here yet or that Alliances, the complete system, is not here yet. The current beta does not involve more than 25% or so of the complete system.

It is also why some servers are putting together singular community guilds now to test the scale of things and get a feel for how it plays out. That's actually a good thing beyond just socialising, having fun and testing things out from a player perspective. It also gives Anet data on how chunks of that size interacts in the system relative population totals and whatnot. So it is good data for players and devs alike.

The difference between them and you is that they do and you don't. They test and you cry. Take this for what it is instead. Get some friends together and test the system for a week. That is what you're meant to do. It's a beta test.

Edited January 15, 2022 by subversiontwo.7501

[Drendal.2085]

so your saying i would be stuck without my friends for 8 weeks

[Drendal.2085]

i dont play all the time. i work 12 hour shifts for a month or more and come back and play for a few weeks. this system would lock me out from playing with friends when i get back.

[etsmith.9025]

4 hours ago, Chaba.5410 said:

" We won't have players avoiding EBG at all costs when they get matched against Maguuma, for example. "

 

Actually this is happening right now. This match up we have the mag players spawn camping EBG as usual and the majority of players/ guilds have either gone to PVE or just logged out completely due to the same toxic BS.  The matchup is heavily unbalanced. 

As expected you have mega alliances just rolling over the smaller guilds/ alliances. 4 accounts all in the same boat including my EU account. 

 

[subversiontwo.7501]

1 hour ago, Drendal.2085 said:

i dont play all the time. i work 12 hour shifts for a month or more and come back and play for a few weeks. this system would lock me out from playing with friends when i get back.

Not at all, if you and your friends play together in a guild you just keep that guild checked as your "main" guild (for transfer purposes) and you will be seeded together for as long as you have that guild and keep it as your "main" guild. If you make a new guild or want to check another guild as your main then you need to log in sometime during week 7 out of 8 and click a box. I'm sure you can click a box after a 12hr shift.

This goes for the betas as well by the way. I clicked my guild of choice back in september and have not changed it since, through beta 2 and 3. The choice still stands.

The issue that you might get if you don't play for a month or two is that the system may begin counting you as inactive but as far as I understand the system will then allow you to choose your world (under certain restrictions; ie., the 2018 outline speaks about reserving 10% of a world to the cap for guilded players' reactivations and transfers) when you reactivate. Exactly how this system will work no one knows yet. It is possible that even the devs have not iterated upon it past its first draft. However, it's the/similar to the golden lock thing you see in the current beta. I'd say its one of those things where you should probably expect some gymnastics and be humble about that you may be in a somewhat unusual position playing so irregularily, but that it at the same time will provide some ways for you to navigate around the problem from having some post-transfer priority to having the option to make sure you don't flag as inactive when you can't play as much.

Edited January 15, 2022 by subversiontwo.7501

[b k.1648]

Transferring has already done a number on server communities, right from launch. I only recognised a handful of people on the old system, so this feels pretty much the same.

[Lillybug.5369]

this bites !!!!!! me and a group friends try to get into wvw and got thrown  into different maps, totally hate this new way . i dont play if i cant be with them, since we dont do wvw all the time and we from different all of us, i love old wvw

 

[Molesworth.1684]

I couldn't agree more with the original post.  I never wanted this alliance system and now seeing it in action, my worst fears are confirmed.  My beloved home server community will be destroyed to create pre-formed map blobs which will clash with huge lag.  I will no longer play alongside old friends who are in different guilds to myself.  To cap it all, last night on my home borderland the two enemy teams had organised private blob scrims and we owned every objective so that map was totally dead to our team. Is this what you want?

 

I know wvw has always had its issues, but this system is a disaster.  I have played and loved GW2 loyally since just after launch and have been a good spender at the gemstore, but if this alliance system is applied, it will very likely drive me away from the game, which will be a very sad day for me.  

[Meridian.9103]

Just form a guild with your friends and select that as your wvw guild. Problem solved.

Just a little bit of organising yourselfes goes a long way.

[Sansar.1302]

11 hours ago, subversiontwo.7501 said:

Not at all, if you and your friends play together in a guild you just keep that guild checked as your "main" guild (for transfer purposes) and you will be seeded together for as long as you have that guild and keep it as your "main" guild. If you make a new guild or want to check another guild as your main then you need to log in sometime during week 7 out of 8 and click a box. I'm sure you can click a box after a 12hr shift.

This goes for the betas as well by the way. I clicked my guild of choice back in september and have not changed it since, through beta 2 and 3. The choice still stands.

The issue that you might get if you don't play for a month or two is that the system may begin counting you as inactive but as far as I understand the system will then allow you to choose your world (under certain restrictions; ie., the 2018 outline speaks about reserving 10% of a world to the cap for guilded players' reactivations and transfers) when you reactivate. Exactly how this system will work no one knows yet. It is possible that even the devs have not iterated upon it past its first draft. However, it's the/similar to the golden lock thing you see in the current beta. I'd say its one of those things where you should probably expect some gymnastics and be humble about that you may be in a somewhat unusual position playing so irregularily, but that it at the same time will provide some ways for you to navigate around the problem from having some post-transfer priority to having the option to make sure you don't flag as inactive when you can't play as much.

 

My friends are spead out all over different guilds on my server and despite playing wvw since start (and these days only play wvw )

and i am not in a guild at all.

Personaly i dont like this direction of wvw at all.

[Meridian.9103]

You can be in 5 guilds, only one of them has to be selected as your wvw guild and it doesn't have to be the same you represent. Is it really that much of a problem to form a guild with friends to simply solve this problem?

Edited January 16, 2022 by Meridian.9103

[Cyninja.2954]

3 hours ago, Molesworth.1684 said:

I couldn't agree more with the original post.  I never wanted this alliance system and now seeing it in action, my worst fears are confirmed.  My beloved home server community will be destroyed to create pre-formed map blobs which will clash with huge lag.  I will no longer play alongside old friends who are in different guilds to myself.  To cap it all, last night on my home borderland the two enemy teams had organised private blob scrims and we owned every objective so that map was totally dead to our team. Is this what you want?

 

How is this dofferent to past resets where commanders orgnaized blob fights? It's the exact same thing, with the exception of the 1 week duration and unpredictability of matchup coming with this short duration (thus not giving players a way to skip this map on reset).

 

3 hours ago, Molesworth.1684 said:

I know wvw has always had its issues, but this system is a disaster.  I have played and loved GW2 loyally since just after launch and have been a good spender at the gemstore, but if this alliance system is applied, it will very likely drive me away from the game, which will be a very sad day for me.  

 

Unfortunate, let's hope it brings more players back than it drives away then.

[Tenga.5867]

Quote: You can be in 5 guilds, only one of them has to be selected as your wvw guild and it doesn't have to be the same you represent. Is it really that much of a problem to form a guild with friends to simply solve this problem?

(sry i kittened up the quoting function :3)
it actually is. this is not how humans and social friendships do work. you don't decide once ever 8 weeks or two month or what ever period with whom you wanna play. also there are very very different kind of players in wvw. lets say you want to raid with your wvw guild. you did this for years, twice a week, but the rest of the week your with your spread roaming buddies from dirrerent guilds. you got to know each other by playing along over the years and you did built friendships. all this will be gone if anet is forcing this system on us. if you HAVE to chose what kind of player you want to be.

so lets say, you decide for your wvw raid still, the one that is happening twice a week. the rest of that time, your lost out with unknown people and EVEN IF YOU are able to create new friendships and you are socializing with them, all this will be SHUFFLED again after said period cause you only got influence in chosing ONE type of ally.

i rly hope you guys get whats the problem with this system. we won't be able to have social interactions we built over years within our server and enemy server. we won't be able to hop server if we wanna join a different enemy. it's not on us cause we are getting shuffled all the time. you can only chose one ally guild. thats it. everything besides that will get shuffled.
what we have now is way more adjustable even tho its not perfect.
and i havn't even mentioned another aspect of that game. the real world to ingame interaction. lets say a twitch streamer wants to give his community to join him from time to time. this won't be possible. only if said streamer will create a guild just for that. but then he/she can't participate in everything else. this new system is so full of restrictions that it kills most social interactions outside of your main chosen wvw guild.

i'm pretty happy about some of the posters here were able to explain better how this new system will work and i'm left with some hope it won't be that bad in the end, but still i see many problems towords building friendships, holding them, building long period social interactions within those, forming an identity, having a server identity, having side projects.

 

this new matchups is maybe good for "creating content for big blob guilds who only do just like this. zerging all day long." but thats exactly NOT what wvw is about. its all about everything compared, its nieches, its small guilds, its scouts, its about people who know people and their TAGs.

 

and please guys, this isn't a hatespeech post or anything. i'm just a wvw veteran, being here from the start, having concerns about what will happen to our beloved wvw family like players. i'm happy anet wants to take care (finally) about wvw and its players, but again i just feel like they have no idea about their game and the playerbase dedicated to said gamemode. all they do is forming that game about that one grp that likes running in a circle spaming everything.

this system maybe sounds and looks good on paper but it does not benefit its whole wvw community. i'd bet most wvw players are not dedicated to just one style of playing wvw. its about its variations, but still with friends. we will lose all this

 

:3 cheers

Edited January 16, 2022 by Gilderin.4763

[Meridian.9103]

19 minutes ago, Gilderin.4763 said:

also there are very very different kind of players in wvw. lets say you want to raid with your wvw guild. you did this for years, twice a week, but the rest of the week your with your spread roaming buddies from dirrerent guilds. you got to know each other by playing along over the years and you did built friendships.

Couldn't this be solved by forming an alliance?

[Forgotten Legend.9281]

yes, you can be in 5 guilds.

 

yes, these 5 guilds can be on five different WvW teams because they don't form an Alliance with each other.

 

yes, it disrupts who you can play WvW with.

 

i am in 2 different WvW guilds and play with other people on my server who live on the other side of the world. we're talking people from over a dozen guilds. NONE of these guilds plan on joining the same alliance. i play with them all because my work schedule changes every day. so this will totally suck for me. i won't be able to play with my friends anymore. this means i'll have to play with random people to find out their playstyle doesn't align with mine, or that our personalities clash, or something. it takes awhile to get to know people and to know if you have fun running with them. 

 

joining an Alliance is no where near the same thing as joining a server.

 

also: there are rumors going around that Devs have said in Discord that Alliances will cap at 200 WvW players. population is absolutely dismal compared to server population.

[Tenga.5867]

23 minutes ago, Meridian.9103 said:

Couldn't this be solved by forming an alliance?

i don't think it will work out like this. like i said, this is not how human friendships build and work in general. you do weight some friendships different than others so. it will and can still work out in a steady fixed envirorment like we have today (server and its identity) but this cannot work when this all gets randomized. you have to decide with whom you wanna play with, some of them don't wanna play with the same ppl you want which means everyone will lose ppl which this person likes to play with.

all this would need a massive oranisation by everyone and this is not how friendships work. you don't organize them in the first place. they build up over time, you start weighting them, the other person aswell. personal, social interactions cannot work out and you can't take care of them when you get shuffled every said period.
i rly don't see how (the system at its current state) this can work out. building friendships, there is somewhat magic behind it. so many things you have to consider and we will lose all this for one big grp we can play with.

[Scolix.4879]

I am not a fan of this thing at all PvP side of every game even in GW2 is always toxic but this restructuring has really brought some really nasty douchebags under their rocks into a daylight.

I would rather take old bad balancing over the new bad balancing + the maximum toxicity the beta  thing has.

I have never had to but chat box off until now.

[Cyninja.2954]

7 hours ago, Forgotten Legend.9281 said:

also: there are rumors going around that Devs have said in Discord that Alliances will cap at 200 WvW players. population is absolutely dismal compared to server population.

 

If that is the case, it just means that WvW population issues are even more severe than previously assumed and the size of alliances and guilds allowed to organize has to be reduced as to not create to big chunks of players.

 

Even more of a reason to move to the new system given servers have far larger capacities of players. Which would explain the dire differences in activity between Tier 1 and Tier 5 matchups.

[Gotejjeken.1267]

I just worry about balance due to popularity.  Basically if your guild isn't good at interacting with other guilds you might be stuck in a random alliance that is not favorable (the 'unlikables').  Which would mean your chat may be super toxic by no fault of your own.

 

Guess that can be solved by doing better socialization work, but it really does seem dog eat dog compared to the overall 'worlds' we have now.  

[Dawdler.8521]

1 hour ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

I just worry about balance due to popularity.  Basically if your guild isn't good at interacting with other guilds you might be stuck in a random alliance that is not favorable (the 'unlikables').  Which would mean your chat may be super toxic by no fault of your own.

Alliances as Anet described them are joined and left by choice. Its completely impossible to be "stuck" in a random alliance. If your guild cant interact with other guilds then dont join an alliance. If your guild is in an alliance you dont like, either deal with it by following the guild lead or leave the guild.