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The Opposite of Prismatic


Gibson.4036

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Elder dragons come in paired opposites. Life/Death, Fire/Ice.

What is the opposite of prismatic? If prismatic is full spectrum, is the opposite the lack of all color, all light? Does that make Bubbles only coincidentally a deep sea dragon? Is its true nature actually the Dragon of Abyss?

These polar opposites seem to be uniquely dangerous to each other, risking a mutual canceling if they engage each other directly. So if the pattern holds, Aurene is in danger if we are about to engage her opposite to a degree she hasn’t been before.

She’s already chosen to stay at a remove from the action because she wants to be a healer, not a destroyer. Will this be uniquely wise at this point because getting involved will mean risking antimatter to her matter?

Even if she stays out, she’ll be all that’s left to absorb the last elder dragons magic if we destroy it. Can she even absorb her opposite’s magic without being destroyed herself?

Edited by Gibson.4036
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2 hours ago, Gibson.4036 said:

Elder dragons come in paired opposites. Life/Death, Fire/Ice.

What is the opposite of prismatic? If prismatic is full spectrum, is the opposite the lack of all color, all light? Does that make Bubbles only coincidentally a deep sea dragon? Is its true nature actually the Dragon of Abyss?

These polar opposites seem to be uniquely dangerous to each other, risking a mutual canceling if they engage each other directly. So if the pattern holds, Aurene is in danger if we are about to engage her opposite to a degree she hasn’t been before.

She’s already chosen to stay at a remove from the action because she wants to be a healer, not a destroyer. Will this be uniquely wise at this point because getting involved will mean risking antimatter to her matter?

Even if she stays out, she’ll be all that’s left to absorb the last elder dragons magic if we destroy it. Can she even absorb her opposite’s magic without being destroyed herself?

Light - Aurene
Darkness - Bubbles.

Very Yin and Yang, which coincidentally the Logo for EoD mimics, as you can see here 

https://www.guildwars2.com/en-gb/end-of-dragons/

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4 hours ago, Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:

Bubbles opposite would have been Kralkatorrik the crystal dragon, not Aurene.

Aurene is all dragon magics, of which Bubbles is one of. Aurene would have no opposite in the system that we know of.

Except, what exactly was Kralkatorrik the dragon of? Purple crystal? Kind of a weird domain compared to life, death, fire, and ice.

Is it possible Kralk’s true nature was to be prismatic, but his madness/corruption distorted that manifestation? 
 

Aurene is the daughter of Glint, daughter of Kralkatorrik. Shouldn’t they have the same essence, only grandpas was corrupted, and that corruption was passed to Glint until she was cleansed of it?

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2 hours ago, Andy.5981 said:

Light - Aurene
Darkness - Bubbles.

Very Yin and Yang, which coincidentally the Logo for EoD mimics, as you can see here 

https://www.guildwars2.com/en-gb/end-of-dragons/

Right, so as we saw at the end of IBS, it would be a terrible idea for Aurene to get involved if Bubbles is the threat.

And can she even absorb her opposite’s magic to maintain the balance, or will that be the End of Aurene.

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3 hours ago, Andy.5981 said:

Light - Aurene
Darkness - Bubbles.

Very Yin and Yang, which coincidentally the Logo for EoD mimics, as you can see here 

https://www.guildwars2.com/en-gb/end-of-dragons/

eeeeeehhhhmmm...... as far as I know Zhaitan is already reffered as something similar as darkness. 
Zhaitan is death and shadow (shadow is actually a kind of darkness)
Aurene might be a complete new elder dragon type with her entirely new domain going against the rules as she consumed the aspects of magic of every other dead dragon to maintain the balance to complete Glint's prophecy. 
There's no darkness and light thing going actually on purpose unless proven. 

However there's still the question of who "Mother" is. Kralkatorrik mentioned her in its last words. Maybe there's an even bigger thing going on. 

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1 hour ago, Gibson.4036 said:

Except, what exactly was Kralkatorrik the dragon of? Purple crystal? Kind of a weird domain compared to life, death, fire, and ice.

Is it possible Kralk’s true nature was to be prismatic, but his madness/corruption distorted that manifestation? 
 

Aurene is the daughter of Glint, daughter of Kralkatorrik. Shouldn’t they have the same essence, only grandpas was corrupted, and that corruption was passed to Glint until she was cleansed of it?

Kralkatorrik is the dragon of crystal and fury

  • Jormag is the dragon of ice, and its opposite is Primordus the dragon of fire.
  • Mordremoth is the dragon of plants(living things), and its opposite is Zhiatan the dragon of death
  • Kralkatorrik is the dragon of crystal, the hardest, most solid, substance, its opposite is the Deep Sea Dragon the dragon of water, of the most fluid and un-solid thing.
Edited by Sajuuk Khar.1509
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1 hour ago, Cynder.2509 said:

However there's still the question of who "Mother" is. Kralkatorrik mentioned her in its last words. Maybe there's an even bigger thing going on. 

There really isn't though. Mother, as the name would suggest, is Kralkatorrik's mother.

Aurene had a mother(Glint), Glint had a father(Kralkatorrik), Kralkarottik had a mother("Mother"). Nothing has said the Elder Dragons we know of are the first, or only, Elder Dragons to exist. Taimi and Gorrik even lampshade this themselves

Quote
Gorrik: Who do you think Kralkatorrik was referring to as "Mother"?
Taimi: Probably his mother.
Gorrik: Do Elder Dragons have mothers?
Taimi: Aurene does.

Though the way Kralk said the word implied he was remembering someone long dead, and not that mother was alive.

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8 hours ago, Gibson.4036 said:

Except, what exactly was Kralkatorrik the dragon of? Purple crystal? Kind of a weird domain compared to life, death, fire, and ice.

Is it possible Kralk’s true nature was to be prismatic, but his madness/corruption distorted that manifestation? 
 

Aurene is the daughter of Glint, daughter of Kralkatorrik. Shouldn’t they have the same essence, only grandpas was corrupted, and that corruption was passed to Glint until she was cleansed of it?

Kralkatorrik was the dragon of Crystal, which is also an elemental force.

 

Crystals such as diamonds are some of the hardest and strongest materials in the known universe. Even metal and rock are crystals, although composite in nature (polycrystals). In fact life as we know it wouldn't even be possible without crystals, and may not have been able to exist at all.

 

Water is the opposite of crystal, able to destroy anything given enough time. Our entire planet's landscape was formed mostly by the flow of water over billions of years.

 

Unbreakable wall versus unstoppable force.

Edited by Hannelore.8153
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I've generally interpreted 'prismatic dragon of light' as Aurene's core domain still being the same as Kralkatorrik, but like the contrast between Kormir and Abaddon, she chooses to manifest it differently. Prisms are, after all, normally made of crystal, while Kralkatorrik also had elements of lightning, light, and meteorological phenomena.

 

Aurene's able to absorb magics of other domains, but we've seen other Elder Dragons do that as well, including Mordremoth absorbing Zhaitan's magic which is supposed to be Mordremoth's opposite. The distinction might be that other Elder Dragons simply hoarded magic and converted it to their own type over time, while Aurene seems more inclined to allow it to pass through her and redistribute it back into the mortal world, and may only be holding onto magic of her own domain while keeping the others flowing through the ley line network in an orderly fashion (which would fit the 'prismatic' theme).

 

One could definitely come up with contrasts between Kralkatorrik and Aurene versus the DSD. Sky-based phenomena versus the depths of the ocean. Light versus the darkness of those ocean depths. The hardness of crystal versus the fluidity of water. However, the linked nature of Jormag and Primordus being each other's weaknesses seemed to be a unique property of their domains and the link between the two individuals - there may not necessarily be a similar relationship between Aurene and the DSD even if they are opposites. After all, ice and fire do have the property that if you put them together one will destroy the other (and if the two are evenly matched, you'll end up with both gone in the end). The others don't really have this sort of antagonistic relationship, even if they can be regarded as metaphysical opposites.  

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2 hours ago, Gibson.4036 said:

The rigid/hard verses flowing/eroding is an interesting interpretation!

I’m missing where anyone said it did?

You didn't, but Sajuuk Khar.1509 said this:

16 hours ago, Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:

Bubbles opposite would have been Kralkatorrik the crystal dragon, not Aurene.

Aurene is all dragon magics, of which Bubbles is one of. Aurene would have no opposite in the system that we know of.

Which I don't think could be the case if Aurene, as I previously stated, hasn't had any contact with the DSD.

 

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18 hours ago, Andy.5981 said:

Light - Aurene
Darkness - Bubbles.

Very Yin and Yang, which coincidentally the Logo for EoD mimics, as you can see here 

https://www.guildwars2.com/en-gb/end-of-dragons/

The problem with that is that Zhaitan was the Dragon of Death and Shadow.

Shadow is darkness.

Meanwhile, Kralkatorrik - which would be Bubble's opposite under this theory of "every Elder Dragon has an opposite"- was Crystal (earth) and Fury. And as others have said, Earth and Water are often considered opposing forces.

Aurene seems to be "light" and "Prism" because she has more than just Kralkatorrik's magic, but is capable of filtering all magic (within limitations, and without explanation for why beyond "bonding with mortals" which didn't seem to help Jormag one bit). She's not only Kralkatorrik's replacement, but also seems to function as Zhaitan's, Mordremoth's, and Kralkatorrik's replacement - and got Jormag's and Primordus' to boot now given the Gen3 legendaries.

That said, as Drax pointed out, every Elder Dragon was capable of absorbing all magic, and it could be that she's "prism" and "light" because it's the kinder, gooder variation of crystals and storms, to run parallel to Abaddon of Secrets post-fall and Kormir of Truth - both being knowledge, and Kormir still occasionally dubbed the goddess of secrets herself, while Abaddon was dubbed god of wisdom pre-fall.

In addition to all of this, the notion of opposites is still theoretical. Despite some posters' insistence, there's no solid evidence that Mordremoth and Zhaitan are opposites. S3 did subtly hint at such in Episodes 3 and 6, but such hints flies in the face of Primordus and Jormag being "each other's unique weaknesses" and would instead imply two unique weaknesses - the opposite magic, and something that takes advantage of their own magic - and that we never discovered Primordus' and Jormag's self-inflicting unique weakness. Or even bothered to find it before waking up an Elder Dragon to pit two Elder Dragons against each other which everyone thought was a bad idea. Similarly, nothing says that Kralkatorrik - or Aurene - is an opposite to the DSD and vice versa.

TBH, the notion of two weaknesses to every Elder Dragon makes sense, as currently Jormag/Primordus' weaknesses are the odd-man out. Kralkatorrik's weakness was his own branding; Mordremoth's weakness was attacks on his mind; Zhaitan's weakness was his ability to create specialized minions; then Primordus' weakness was Jormag, and Jormag's weakness was Primordus. Odd twins out.

3 hours ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

Heck, one could say that if Aurene has every magic type except the DSD's, then the DSD is her opposite through similar mechanisms to colour theory.

Well, in theory, the DSD should have every magic by this point. Zhaitan's, Mordremoth's, Kralkatorrik's, Jormag's, and Primordus'.

 

But if "Prismatic" has an opposite, it'd be "Coalescence". Prisms separate light into various colors. So the opposite would be combining colors into a single light. But the DSD is unlikely to be this, unless it got replaced by another "first of their kind" dragon off-screen.

TBH, that'd be an interesting Elder Dragon to witness.

Edited by Konig Des Todes.2086
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26 minutes ago, Randulf.7614 said:

I thought Aurene was the first of her kind in that she purified the magic. Therefore there is no natural opposite. She’s prismatic because she absorbed/amalgamated/purified multiple aspects into one

I don't think we get an explanation for the statement that Aurene is the first of her kind. I don't even really know if there is a clear explanation of what 'corrupted' magic is. But Aurene is certainly different than Kralk and when talking about the DSD we need to treat it is potentially the opposite of Kralkatorric, not Aurene.

 

As for Kralk's vs the DSD's domains. Solid vs Liquid is a very attractive representation if they are to be opposites. But I feel like this representation applies to Jormag and Primordus too. Jormag freezes things solid while Primordus represents burning and melting things down with fire. Although Primordus has to use solidified lava and other materials to create minions. To a lesser extend even in Mordremoth vs Zhaitan, Mordremoth represents growth and replicating forms of life across the world, while Zhaitan represents death, the decay and destruction of said forms.

 

So in my thoughts, overall, one set of dragons represents form, the creation of it and the preservation of it. The other set represents the lack of form, loss of form, and destruction of it. And if this sense of structure vs disorder in the dragons' opposing power extends to time itself, which is apparent in Aurene having the gift of prophecy of seeing the future, could that mean that the DSD may have the means to destroy prophecy and change the future.

 

And this leads me to more thoughts on the Dragon/Magic cycle presented in this game. This cycle has been presented as some reliable occurrence, a structured system of sorts prescribing how magic would ebb and flow in the world. Though it is a bit unstable as the dragons seem to grow ever more ravenous with each passing, it is presented as a process that has reliably occurred for an uncountable number of ages in this world. And now that structure is falling apart. Brought on by the player character the commander. As Joko so eloquently put, and Braham bluntly seconded, the commander causes chaos.

 

Aurene's lineage is of crystals and prophecy, of solid form and certainty. Then the commander is the opposite, going against what was historically a certain process, mortals life would be razed and the Tyrian magic cycle would reoccur. From a meta narrative perspective, as a customizable videogame character, the commander doesn't have a certain form or biography. If the DSD is the opposite of Kralkatorric, the opposite of Aurene's lineage, then the commander is almost certainly an agent or at least an ally of the DSD. This I feel could be the big spoiler in EoD, the thing that is why ANet has to remove everything in their map previews to prevent being outright shown and confirmed. But that is just my rambling thoughts...

 

It is also the story that has been GW2 so far. The alliance of opposed forces for a greater cause. And perhaps that is what Kralk meant when he said Aurene is the first of her kind. She is born as a child of structure, solidity, and prophecy, but she is raised by and chooses as her champion agents of chaos, liquidity, and uncertainty. She is the first dragon to experience and understand these two forces in the world and accept both as part of it.

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9 minutes ago, PseudoNewb.5468 said:

I don't think we get an explanation for the statement that Aurene is the first of her kind.

We do, Aurene is the first Elder Dragon to be able to take in all the various magics without them conflicting inside her, and causing torment. Kralk talks about this when you are inside him.

9 minutes ago, PseudoNewb.5468 said:

And this leads me to more thoughts on the Dragon/Magic cycle presented in this game. This cycle has been presented as some reliable occurrence, a structured system of sorts prescribing how magic would ebb and flow in the world. Though it is a bit unstable as the dragons seem to grow ever more ravenous with each passing, it is presented as a process that has reliably occurred for an uncountable number of ages in this world. And now that structure is falling apart. Brought on by the player character the commander. As Joko so eloquently put, and Braham bluntly seconded, the commander causes chaos.

Well, assuming it wasn't another of Jormag's lies, Jormag does mention early in IBS that the cycle didn't exist at one point.

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4 hours ago, Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:

We do, Aurene is the first Elder Dragon to be able to take in all the various magics without them conflicting inside her, and causing torment. Kralk talks about this when you are inside him.

He doesn't say this.

The "first of her kind" is in response to allying with mortals against dragons:

Kralkatorrik's Torment: THESE CREATURES MAKE YOU WEAK!
Kralkatorrik: They are her strength.
Kralkatorrik's Torment: SHE BETRAYS HER OWN KIND!
Kralkatorrik: She is the first of her kind.

Since you like to get nit picky about specific quotes and adjacent dialogue, I'm surprised you didn't catch yourself on this one.

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33 minutes ago, Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

He doesn't say this.

The "first of her kind" is in response to allying with mortals against dragons:

Kralkatorrik's Torment: THESE CREATURES MAKE YOU WEAK!
Kralkatorrik: They are her strength.
Kralkatorrik's Torment: SHE BETRAYS HER OWN KIND!
Kralkatorrik: She is the first of her kind.

Since you like to get nit picky about specific quotes and adjacent dialogue, I'm surprised you didn't catch yourself on this one.

No, those are two entirely separate statements there. Don't selectively leave out other parts of the conversation to try to edit the meaning there.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Descent

Quote
Flying into Kralkatorrik
Aurene: It's so...beautiful. And quiet.
<Character name>: If we succeed, what happens to you?
Aurene: I...I'm not sure, exactly.
Aurene: I can feel all the magics in him. They're not in harmony.
Kralkatorrik: Child of my child...
Aurene: Oh...
Kralkatorrik: Come to me.
<Character name>: Aurene, what's happening?
Aurene: I can...feel his pain.
Aurene: A million agonies. So, so,so much suffering.
Approaching Kralkatorrik's heart
Kralkatorrik: My heart is yours.
<Character name>: Is this some kind of trick?
Aurene: No. I think he wants us here.
Kralkatorrik's Torment: (ROAR)
<Character name>: You...sure about that?
Kralkatorrik's Torment: THIS IS YOUR FAULT!
Aurene: He's...fractured. Warring with the other magics.
Fighting Kralkatorrik's Torment
Aurene: I've got you!
Kralkatorrik's Torment: KILLED YOU ONCE! DO IT AGAIN!
Kralkatorrik's Torment: BLIND! LOST!
Kralkatorrik's Torment: ALL WILL PAY!!
When Kralkatorrik's Torment is at 75%
Aurene: A storm is coming! Follow me, Champion. I'll protect you.
Kralkatorrik: You are more than I.
Kralkatorrik: Death does not stop you.
Kralkatorrik: The magics do not torment you.
Kralkatorrik: They belong within you.
Fighting the Facet of Fire and War
Kralkatorrik: Claim what is yours!
After defeating the Facet of Fire and War
Aurene: Now! Deal the final blow!
Fighting Kralkatorrik's Torment again
Kralkatorrik's Torment: THIEVES! YOU ARE MY ANGUISH!
Kralkatorrik's Torment: PARALYZED!
When Kralkatorrik's Torment is at 40%
Aurene: Follow me, Champion. I'll protect you.
Kralkatorrik: Torment is blinding. It lies.
Kralkatorrik: Its pollution steals my sense.
Kralkatorrik: It promises: destroy everything and the pain will cease.
Aurene: I understand, grandfather. We'll end it for you.
Fighting the Facet of Root and Madness
Kralkatorrik: Remove this impure magic from me.
After defeating the Facet of Root and Madness
Aurene: It's ready, Champion!
Fighting Kralkatorrik's Torment again
Kralkatorrik's Torment: OUTRAGE! DESPAIR! MURDER!
Aurene: Press on, my champion. The end is near.
Kralkatorrik's Torment: ALL WILL PAY!!
Kralkatorrik's Torment: BLIND! LOST!
Kralkatorrik's Torment: GET AWAY!
When Kralkatorrik's Torment is at 10%
Aurene: Follow me, Champion. I'll protect you.
Kralkatorrik: Your first words... I heard them.
Aurene: I'm not you.
Kralkatorrik: But you are of me. And soon I will be of you.
Kralkatorrik: Your mother assumed that my vision...
Aurene: She thought it terrified you.
Kralkatorrik: Nothing terrifies an Elder Dragon.
Kralkatorrik: Not even death.
Fighting the Facet of Shadow and Death
Kralkatorrik: This you have already learned.
Aurene: I no longer fear death.
After defeating the Facet of Shadow and Death
Aurene: One more blast!
Returning to Kralkatorrik's Torment
Kralkatorrik's Torment: THESE CREATURES MAKE YOU WEAK!
Kralkatorrik: They are her strength.
Kralkatorrik's Torment: SHE BETRAYS HER OWN KIND!
Kralkatorrik: She is the first of her kind.
After defeating Kralkatorrik's Torment
Kralkatorrik: You have laid me bare. The pain...is ebbing.
Aurene: I'm sorry it has to be this way, Grandfather.
Kralkatorrik: Child of my child...
Kralkatorrik: I only hope that you never have to kill what you love.
Kralkatorrik: Now mortal, return my blood to my heart.
<Character name>: Aurene?
Aurene: Do it.

Kralkatorrik specifically mentions how Aurene is greater then him. Being immune to death, being able to take in all the magics within herself and not suffer torment. He even makes the claim that the magic BELONG within her, setting her as fundamentally different then him who is suffering from torment because the magics aren't supposed to be in him. Mortals give her strength, but its her unique physiology, her ability to take in all the magic and not be tormented, her immunity from death itself, that makes her wholly different then other Elder Dragons.

Not to mention Jormag took on a mortal champion and didn't fundamentally change its nature, because being connected to mortal isn't the thing that makes Aurene what she is. Being connected to mortals just gives her strength/compassion, and, according to Glint's recording earlier in the season, lets Aurene manage her magic better.

Edited by Sajuuk Khar.1509
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I think there's a big fundamental difference between Aurene and Jormag in their views of mortals:

Jormag still viewed mortals as tools, to be used (and expended) for Jormag's benefit. Apart from Aurene refusing to throw herself at Primordus so that Jormag doesn't have to, this is the primary source of disagreement in the conversations between Aurene and Jormag. In particular, while Aurene redistributes magic freely (which is probably why she still comes off as weaker than Jormag and Primordus, even though she's had the opportunity to collect more magic than either, she's not hoarding it in herself), Jormag still wanted to hoard as much magic as possible to increase their own power.

There are signs that Jormag might have started warming to Ryland, but their attacks on Lake Doric and elsewhere viewed that they still viewed mortals as little Frozen magic batteries to empower themself. It probably also didn't help that Ryland really seemed to only show loyalty to his warband - which was gone by the time Jormag awakened - and otherwise he seemed to pretty much only be looking out for himself while holding a callous attitude towards everyone else, so he's not exactly setting an example for Jormag to change their attitude, while the Commander and the Exalted went some way to teach principles of compassion and charity toward Aurene.

To put this in context, Vlast was seen as a failure because he didn't have a close enough bond with mortals... but while he viewed himself as above them, he still protected them and believed in the Legacy, even if he knew he couldn't be a part of it as his mother intended. Jormag's overall attitude towards mortals is clearly more negative than Vlast's.

I think there's a strong degree to which Aurene's ability to manage (not absorb) multiple types of magic can be linked to her belief that other beings deserve magic, life, and freedom too. If she hoarded magic like her predecessors did before her, then it would probably clash inside her and bring Torment as well. However, because she redistributes it back out to mortals and the ley line network, opposing magics never have the chance to build up and stagnate within her until they start to destructively interfere with one another.

Which is something that brings the two sides of Sane Kralkatorrik's observations regarding Aurene together. Mortals are her strength - because its her attitude towards mortals and her willingness to redistribute magic freely is how she is able to manage magic from multiple domains without them conflicting inside her. If she didn't have that attitude and was instead tempted to keep the magic within herself to boost her own power, she'd probably tread the same path as her predecessors (which might be why Vlast was a failure: even though he protected mortals in Path of Fire, he'd probably be tempted to hoard the magic he acquired as well because he thinks he'll put it to better use than they do, which could easily lead to him succumbing to madness in turn). Because Aurene truly believes in mortals, though, she demonstrates that trust by releasing most of the magic that passes through her back into Tyria. A lot of that magic is still likely to be misused by various mortal factions, but the overall result is still less destructive than the established Elder Dragon cycle.

(Heck, you could even use this to unify Sane Kralkatorrik and Torment's comments. From Torment's perspective, mortals make Aurene weak because she's not absorbing as much magic as she can and therefore growing physically and magically stronger. Sane Kralkatorrik, on the other hand, recognises that this allows her to keep her sanity and remain mentally stronger.)

And this may be part of the prism symbology. A prism orders the light that passes through it, with each colour in its place, but does not absorb much of it in the process. Other Elder Dragons, on the other hand, are more akin to a black body: absorbing the light that strikes it, growing hotter and hotter in the process and re-radiating some of it as a result, but the increasing temperature of the black body might cause it to start to melt or otherwise sustain some form of thermal damage.

Edited by draxynnic.3719
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