Let's be honest, other professions are the problem...

[Puck.3697]

4 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

So basically, the game is trivially easy because of 100% boon uptime? OK ... but that's got nothing to do with anything I've been talking about in this thread so I don't get what you are disagreeing with me about.

Im Stating.

Content has to be Balanced around the Meta (Most Effective Tactic) Or the Meta will Make this Game look absolutely terrible to outside Views I.E More people leave then Join the game due to negative Stigmas and The Negatvitiy of those engaging with the game.

The Fact, you cvan say "Metas a player problem and Doesnt need to be done" is the precise reason this games pvE is one of the worst in the genre and People Actively just announce this games Dead and Dont even bother trying it lmfao.

the fact you can say "Well. just dont use banners now" is the problem of the game The fact the games Power creep as Reached a Point you can honestly just state "play whatever it dont matter"

Edited February 3, 2022 by Daddy.8125

[Obtena.7952]

5 minutes ago, Daddy.8125 said:

Im Stating.

Content has to be Balanced around the Meta (Most Effective Tactic) Or the Meta will Make this Game look absolutely terrible to outside Views I.E More people leave then Join the game due to negative Stigmas and The Negatvitiy of those engaging with the game.

The Fact, you cvan say "Metas a player problem and Doesnt need to be done" is the precise reason this games pvE is one of the worst in the genre and People Actively just announce this games Dead and Dont even bother trying it lmfao.

the fact you can say "Well. just dont use banners now" is the problem of the game The fact the games Power creep as Reached a Point you can honestly just state "play whatever it dont matter"

Well, it can't do that (for many reasons actually) but for one because using meta as a balancing point prevents people from playing how they want. Somehow you convinced yourself this game feature is not important to the success of the game. You don't know if that's true. 

One thing I do know ... this game is where it is today based on the loyalty of it's customer base and not because of what 'outsiders' think of it. Pretty sure that means ALOT more to Anet's business than you give it credit for. 

Edited February 3, 2022 by Obtena.7952

[Puck.3697]

3 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Well, it can't do that because using meta as a balancing point prevents people from playing how they want. 

really? because WoW Does it and its Never been a negative and Never ever had a issue population wise.

Its Statistically Proven that the population of Raid and Group Mentality in MMORPGS are Played this way with or without the companies Support. Because the Player Perception Drives this Not a Company and Not "REAL options".

People will stack what makes the content easiest. they will Stack what is the Safest and they'll Stack what provides Results the Quickiest.  thats statistically proven through Hundreds of Programs and Player counts Done throughout the MMORPG playerbase entirely.

The game Doesnt require this. However PuGS demand it. This disagreemnt between how the games engaged with and is Designed is Causing Major flaws in tthe PvE Experience provided by the game.

again Over 87% of Every fractal run the last Year are the identical Set up of the Same meta proffessions. so if this is how the vast majority play the game. maybe Anet should be balancing for it? as it LITTERALLY makes no difference to the players.

Edited February 3, 2022 by Daddy.8125

[Obtena.7952]

Just now, Daddy.8125 said:

really? because WoW Does it ....

Sure ... but this isn't Wow so 🤷‍♂️

 

Edited February 3, 2022 by Obtena.7952

[Puck.3697]

Just now, Obtena.7952 said:

Maybe ... but this isn't Wow so 🤷‍♂️

Oki then

FFXIV Does it.

ESO Does it.

Black Desert does it.

Every other MMORPG on the kitten market with a class System does.

Maybe theres a "Secret Reason" why every one of these MMORPGS are more successful in PvE Content eh?..

Again:

87% of fractals run i nthe last year have Used the identical Meta Comp, Maybe GW2 players are already engaging with the game in this manner?

[Stx.4857]

I don't main warrior but I do have two at max and I have been playing my newer one recently.

 

I am a bit confused why warrior doesn't have access to protection.  Even though the Boons and mechanics like barrier are being spread around everywhere, doesn't protection seem like a warrior style boon?   Like, I wouldn't really expect warrior to have regeneration for example.  But one of my mains is a Thief and it makes sense that Thief wouldn't have protection, because they are all about evades instead of mitigation.  But why doesn't warrior have it?   

[Puck.3697]

Just now, Stx.4857 said:

I don't main warrior but I do have two at max and I have been playing my newer one recently.

 

I am a bit confused why warrior doesn't have access to protection.  Even though the Boons and mechanics like barrier are being spread around everywhere, doesn't protection seem like a warrior style boon?   Like, I wouldn't really expect warrior to have regeneration for example.  But one of my mains is a Thief and it makes sense that Thief wouldn't have protection, because they are all about evades instead of mitigation.  But why doesn't warrior have it?   

Game costs Less to Balance around 3 Winning Proffessions then it is to actively try and Fix and balance 9, so Anet take the lazy option and ignore the other 6 proffessions 😛 Pretty much the reason. Thats if anet has the Money left to try balance 9 that is. At this point they might aswell state

"Heres 9 Options and heres the 3 We'll bother to Keep relevant".

[Obtena.7952]

4 minutes ago, Daddy.8125 said:

87% of fractals run i nthe last year have Used the identical Meta Comp, Maybe GW2 players are already engaging with the game in this manner?

If they are, then what is the ACTUAL problem? That's just a indication people doing fractals like to run specific comps. That should surprise no one. That happens in all kinds of games ... there are preferred comps all the time. Seems to me that's not a problem that people can choose to do this ... as intended. 

Edited February 3, 2022 by Obtena.7952

[Puck.3697]

Just now, Obtena.7952 said:

If they are, then what is the ACTUAL problem? That's just a indication people doing fractals like to run specific comps. That should surprise no one. That happens in all kinds of games ... there are preferred comps all the time. 

that 87% of runs are done Sub 2 minutes Because of how easy content is when done this Way, which to a Outside or uninvested Player Just looks Absolutely awful Which Causes people to quit Early or not bother trying the game.

 

[Obtena.7952]

7 minutes ago, Daddy.8125 said:

that 87% of runs are done Sub 2 minutes Because of how easy content is when done this Way, which to a Outside or uninvested Player Just looks Absolutely awful Which Causes people to quit Early or not bother trying the game.

 

Yet somehow you concluded balancing around the meta fixes that ... because I can asure you ... it doesn't. I mean, you are a little all over the place here and it's hard to follow your train of thought. What does how easy the content is to complete have to do with your point that Anet should balance around the meta?

You do realize those two thinks are completely unrelated right?

Edited February 3, 2022 by Obtena.7952

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

11 minutes ago, Stx.4857 said:

I don't main warrior but I do have two at max and I have been playing my newer one recently.

 

I am a bit confused why warrior doesn't have access to protection.  Even though the Boons and mechanics like barrier are being spread around everywhere, doesn't protection seem like a warrior style boon?   Like, I wouldn't really expect warrior to have regeneration for example.  But one of my mains is a Thief and it makes sense that Thief wouldn't have protection, because they are all about evades instead of mitigation.  But why doesn't warrior have it?   

You can get it with Spellbreaker and soon Jokesworn.

[Puck.3697]

Just now, Obtena.7952 said:

Yet somehow you concluded balancing around the meta fixes that ... because I can asure you ... it doesn't. I mean, you are a little all over the place here and it's hard to follow your train of thought. What does how easy the content is to complete have to do with your point that Anet should balance around the meta?

The point is.

If the Meta Strategy does 40k DPS.

and the Required Strategy to complete content is 15k DPS.

This means, boss Mechanics No longer exist or happen and make the Fight increasingly Easier and Easier the closer your comp is to the 40k Mark.

The Disparity Between the Meta Strategy and Required Strategy cannot be this Far apart in the hardest Difficulty options this game has.

Lets look at WoW.

LFR, Doesnt require a Strat, Nor does Normal Mode Raids, they are Easy and Overcome Easily with MCUH lower performance. However these strats would not work in mythic Content where Correct Comps and meta following are more required realistically to compete in.

GW2 needs this. No. you should Not be Required to play a Meta comp to Drive the average gameplay of a Game. however the BLEEDING EDGE of difficulty should be Much closer to needing it.

[Obtena.7952]

4 minutes ago, Daddy.8125 said:

 No. you should Not be Required to play a Meta comp to Drive the average gameplay of a Game. however the BLEEDING EDGE of difficulty should be Much closer to needing it.

You're right ... and you aren't required to play a meta comp to 'drive the average gameplay' of the game. 

Also you're right ... the bleeding edge of difficulty risk IS reduced by play optimal (meta) comps.

So what's the problem here again?

Edited February 3, 2022 by Obtena.7952

[Stx.4857]

5 minutes ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

You can get it with Spellbreaker and soon Jokesworn.

Ah crap you're right.  I haven't played my SB in a long time so never mind!

[Puck.3697]

Just now, Obtena.7952 said:

You're right ... and you aren't required to play a meta comp to 'drive the average gameplay' of the game.

No thats what im stating. its Fine in the average gameplay. Because the game Needs to learn to build for both communities and not just 1.

It needs Content. Which has a Entry bar Low enough for the Average, While providing a Skill Ceiling high enough to engage Players who Progressively play the game simultaniously. or as most like to call it (A Difficulty slider)

Doom CM. Needs a Entry point alike where it is (Where we have video proof of people killing it With auto attack only builds xD) and a Hieghtened point where it cannot Be Overcome by something alike this.

[Obtena.7952]

2 minutes ago, Daddy.8125 said:

No thats what im stating. its Fine in the average gameplay. Because the game Needs to learn to build for both communities and not just 1.

It needs Content. Which has a Entry bar Low enough for the Average, While providing a Skill Ceiling high enough to engage Players who Progressively play the game simultaniously. or as most like to call it (A Difficulty slider)

Doom CM. Needs a Entry point alike where it is (Where we have video proof of people killing it With auto attack only builds xD) and a Hieghtened point where it cannot Be Overcome by something alike this.

Right ... we are going to get that difficulty tiers in EoD with Strike CM's in EoD. So 🤷‍♂️

 

Edited February 3, 2022 by Obtena.7952

[Puck.3697]

Just now, Obtena.7952 said:

Right ... we are going to get that with Strike CM's. So ?

but the current raids have CM Versions to.. and they're doable with AFK Builds?.... even in such cases can be Done by a group of 10 Players AFK With Minonmancer builds... if CMs want to actually fulfill this Role they cant be Alike anything we currently have.

[Obtena.7952]

1 minute ago, Daddy.8125 said:

but the current raids have CM Versions to.. and they're doable with AFK Builds?.... even in such cases can be Done by a group of 10 Players AFK With Minonmancer builds... if CMs want to actually fulfill this Role they cant be Alike anything we currently have.

Depends who it is ... I've seen some very capable people play some pretty garbage builds and complete content. 

Edited February 3, 2022 by Obtena.7952

[Puck.3697]

Just now, Obtena.7952 said:

Depends who you are ... I've seen some very capable people play some pretty garbage builds and complete content. 

thats the point...

If CMs gonna actually fulfill the Role. "Garbage builds" Cant be capable of doing the content. because if they can, the bar of balancing is stll too low and Will hold 0 Challange to players with correct builds.

[Obtena.7952]

3 minutes ago, Daddy.8125 said:

thats the point...

If CMs gonna actually fulfill the Role. "Garbage builds" Cant be capable of doing the content. because if they can, the bar of balancing is stll too low and Will hold 0 Challange to players with correct builds.

Sure, that goes without saying, we won't know until people start to do them. But it's not worth speculating they won't accomplish that to claim Anet needs to change the game right now. #crystalballs

 

Edited February 3, 2022 by Obtena.7952

[Puck.3697]

Just now, Obtena.7952 said:

Sure, that goes without saying, we won't know until people start to do them. But it's not worth speculating they won't accomplish that to claim Anet needs to change the game. #crystalballs

 

its not a Crystal ball thoery. and im not stating Prior their introduction its gonna Fail.

but I am saying. for CMs to hold Challange. Conceptually the Idea of Roles either need removing, or Be Accepted Because for content to be Properly balanced the Most effective Strategy has to be the balancing Point Otherwise the Meta builds will simply Destroy the content due to being Power crept above content alike they do now.

 

[Obtena.7952]

6 minutes ago, Daddy.8125 said:

its not a Crystal ball thoery. and im not stating Prior their introduction its gonna Fail.

but I am saying. for CMs to hold Challange. Conceptually the Idea of Roles either need removing, or Be Accepted Because for content to be Properly balanced the Most effective Strategy has to be the balancing Point Otherwise the Meta builds will simply Destroy the content due to being Power crept above content alike they do now.

 

That's the thing ... balancing to meta doesn't prevent meta builds from simply destroying the content. Again, how easy the content is to complete has NOTHING to do with whether Anet is balancing to meta or not. 

In otherwords, the meta can exist and a few or lots of things could be meta ... and STILL be hard to complete content with OR be easy. They aren't related.

I mean, if Anet were to balance non-meta builds to the current meta, the content would be trivial for MORE players, not less. 

Edited February 3, 2022 by Obtena.7952

[Puck.3697]

5 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

That's the thing ... balancing to meta doesn't prevent meta builds from simply destroying the content. Again, how easy the content is to complete has NOTHING to do with whether Anet is balancing to meta or not. 

In otherwords, the meta can exist and a few or lots of things could be meta ... and STILL be hard to complete content with OR be easy. They aren't related.

they actually do.

If the games Balanced around 40k DPS being Required. the Enrage timer will Actually Fail anyone doing below that. and be a challange to players doing 40k DPS..

the reason the games Easy is ebcause the DPS Done is higher then the DPS Required. which means Mechanics arent going off because they're dying too fast remove this issue and you force the players to do the mechanics therefore making content less Destroyable.

The bosses need to live longer. so their mechanics are actually relevant to the fight. in GW2s Case actually the DPS Done by Meta builds is ALOT of the problem.

Edited February 3, 2022 by Daddy.8125

[Obtena.7952]

5 minutes ago, Daddy.8125 said:

they actually do.

If the games Balanced around 40k DPS being Required. the Enrage timer will Actually Fail anyone doing below that. and be a challange to players doing 40k DPS..

 

Right ... but that has nothing to do with whether the game is balanced to meta or not. That has EVERYTHING to do with what meta builds can achieve. 

Again, if meta builds are more than able to complete content, even in the average players hands ... if more things are balanced to that meta standard, then the content is trivial to more people. 

Edited February 3, 2022 by Obtena.7952

[Puck.3697]

1 minute ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Right ... but that has nothing to do with whether the game is balanced to meta or not. That has EVERYTHING to do with what meta builds can achieve. 

how isnt that relative? thats litterally the same thing.

THe Balance as of current. means what Meta builds can achieve is Overpowering the bosses..

So the Options TO prevent such is:

Drop what Meta builds can achieve to fit the boss

or Increase the Boss to Make what meta builds can achieve the Norm.