New Kaineng [Lore discussion]

[Gibson.4036]

1 hour ago, Tyson.5160 said:

I was a little sceptical of this tsunami business sinking Kaineng City but after looking at the science it makes sense. The fact that Tsunami waves can travel 800 kms an hour is insane to me, as well as throwing in hordes of Risen in there. That level of force would have been devastating to the Canthan shore line and as other people pointed out, would have made short work of the rushed shanty town that Kaineng was. Plus it’s ties the first dragon we fight with the last elder dragon we fight in a nice full circle of the elder dragon story.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.forbes.com/sites/robinandrews/2018/02/27/the-orphan-tsunami-and-the-ghost-forest-is-geologys-greatest-legend/amp/

A fascinating real world story about a North American earthquake flooding Japan.

I’m personally disappointed at the return of the risen in the game, as I find them one of the least interesting foes in the game, though it’s not a huge deal to me.

Wiping out old areas and starting new is getting a little repetitious, too. It’s starting to feel like a convenient way not to deal with the past. Kinda like when writers want to do something new, and declare prior story to have all been a dream so they can just move on.

Edited February 7, 2022 by Gibson.4036

[EdwinLi.1284]

3 hours ago, Gibson.4036 said:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.forbes.com/sites/robinandrews/2018/02/27/the-orphan-tsunami-and-the-ghost-forest-is-geologys-greatest-legend/amp/

A fascinating real world story about a North American earthquake flooding Japan.

I’m personally disappointed at the return of the risen in the game, as I find them one of the least interesting foes in the game, though it’s not a huge deal to me.

Wiping out old areas and starting new is getting a little repetitious, too. It’s starting to feel like a convenient way not to deal with the past. Kinda like when writers want to do something new, and declare prior story to have all been a dream so they can just move on.

Personally, I am glad they will deal with the aftermath of the Risen losing Zhaitan now since we are literally near the end of the Elder Dragon's storyline.

 

With them moving on to a new storyline after EoD or the living world after EoD, it is best to finish unfinished questions involving Elder Dragons such as what became of their minions with their Master now gone.

I am honestly surprised they took this long to start covering this because they had a huge opportunity many times before to cover this with the unfinished 4th Map of Orr that was originally meant to show the aftermath of Zhaitan's death by releasing that map anytime during the course of GW2's life to this day.

Edited February 7, 2022 by EdwinLi.1284

[The Greyhawk.9107]

I'm sick to death of this strawman claim that some of us want Cantha to be exactly the same or that we don't understand that things change in 250 years.  Because EVERYONE knows that things change over time.  But not EVERYTHING changes COMPLETELY.  The real world has numerous examples:  The Taj Mahal has been around for almost 400 years, the Alamo is 300, the Forbidden City is 600, and the Tower of London is spitting distance from a thousand.  We've kept some things from the past in the midst of the rapid changes of the modern era.

The point to all this is that what a lot of us want something from the Cantha we knew from GW1 and I at least am highly skeptical that there will be anything recognizable.  Between the changes in the art style and Anet's habit of just destroying old things there really hasn't been a lot things and places that can be recognizable on sight in GW2 as something left over from GW1.  A few things here and there, sure, but very little.  And to date I've seen very little so far that looks like it'd be recognizable as being Cantha and not some generic location from Blade And Soul or some similar game.

[Teratus.2859]

13 hours ago, Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:

That_Shaman has even pointed out how the direction of the tidal wave makes sense also

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FK1LQ_PWQAAk9iC?format=jpg&name=4096x4096

 

Yeah Istan got lucky there..
Poor Battle Isles though, never stood a chance.

[Teratus.2859]

13 hours ago, Narcemus.1348 said:

Yes, there are many places where the world changes like crazy. I understand this, I lived through a mostly no computer to a computer rich existence and have watched as things grew and expanded. I have also lived and seen parts of the world where things have hardly changed. I lived in a city in Italy with a cathedral hundreds of years old surrounded by rich traditions and culture. I never claimed that it was illogical for this to be what it is, even when Cantha is far more scientifically advanced than we even are today. I merely mourned the death of my hopes for the region and voiced my opinion.

I get that 🙂 

There's still plenty of Cantha left though that I hope will have little to no Jade Tech stuff in it.

Not all changes have to be bad, although I can understand the pessimism, i'm quite pessimistic myself a lot of the time.
But im going to wait to get in game and see everything myself, there's been a few things over time I took a hard no stance against for Gw2 but ended up warming up to eventually so I think the developers have earned some faith in that regard even if they have on occasion done something pretty bad to shake that faith a little..

I'm still quite bitter about the Ice Brood Saga in all honesty and I really have not played much Gw2 this year since finishing that content because it just put me off the game so much.
Cantha is hell of a fishing hook to bring me back though.. ironically.

There are also plenty of spots in Cantha that we never got to explore in Gw1 as well, the entire south region of the continent is unexplored so there is plenty of potential there for new and more traditional Cantha to be created there.

Edited February 7, 2022 by Teratus.2859

[EdwinLi.1284]

1 hour ago, The Greyhawk.9107 said:

I'm sick to death of this strawman claim that some of us want Cantha to be exactly the same or that we don't understand that things change in 250 years.  Because EVERYONE knows that things change over time.  But not EVERYTHING changes COMPLETELY.  The real world has numerous examples:  The Taj Mahal has been around for almost 400 years, the Alamo is 300, the Forbidden City is 600, and the Tower of London is spitting distance from a thousand.  We've kept some things from the past in the midst of the rapid changes of the modern era.

The point to all this is that what a lot of us want something from the Cantha we knew from GW1 and I at least am highly skeptical that there will be anything recognizable.  Between the changes in the art style and Anet's habit of just destroying old things there really hasn't been a lot things and places that can be recognizable on sight in GW2 as something left over from GW1.  A few things here and there, sure, but very little.  And to date I've seen very little so far that looks like it'd be recognizable as being Cantha and not some generic location from Blade And Soul or some similar game.

 

Is it because you controdict yourself a lot with what you're looking for with Cantha?

You say you expect Cantha to change but you are also saying you expect Cantha to look the same as well because, I am assuming, nostalgia for GW1 Factions appears to be the main focus of your excitment for EoD contents rather than the content itself.

 

Either way, we are just the fourm users for GW2 so we're just the minority when it comes to the opinions with GW2 content (different or similar opinions but still the minority) and not like the majority of players ever touch the fourms anyways like in most games. 

 

Not to mention as other have said, the recent focus on New Kaineng is about showing the new part of Kaineng located in the South which is where we will go in GW2 EoD instead of the old part of Kaineng in the North.

I expect we may see a lot of places that is recognized as "Cantha" in the North more (though in ruin state) since it is likely the Canthan governement may not have attempted to rebuild the North location but leave it in ruins thus leaving many of the old buildings underwater or left to be rebuilt by those who choose to live there. My best guess from what we are given so far the Canthan government focus in development and changes for Kaineng appears to be the South region only which may lead to part of the plot about how those living in or near New Kaineng have better lives due to how much easier life is thanks to Jade Tech (remember a previous trailer mentions how Canthans have become obsessed with Jade tech making their life easier and not caring about the cost) while those living in the older part of Kaineng are treated as second class citizens with harsher lives since they don't have the convenience of Jade tech and may have to depend on older traditions and methods of Cantha. 

 

However, Old Kainent maybe going to be the next Living World content since the wordings of Anet developers so far appears to give the impression they may not be giving us any part of Old Kaineng in EoD Main Story but instead maybe the next Living world story unless they surprise us on release and reveal there is one more Map they kept a secret located in part of Old Kaineng.

Edited February 7, 2022 by EdwinLi.1284

[The Greyhawk.9107]

23 minutes ago, EdwinLi.1284 said:

 

Is it not because you controdict yourself a lot with what you're looking for with Cantha?

You say you expect Cantha to change but you are also saying you expect Cantha to look the same as well because, I am assuming, nostalgia for GW1 Factions appears to be the main focus of your excitment for EoD contents rather than the content itself.

An astounding misrepresentation of someone else's words, tell me do you work in public office by chance?  Maybe look into politics as a career choice if you haven't. 

[Narcemus.1348]

3 hours ago, EdwinLi.1284 said:

 

Is it because you controdict yourself a lot with what you're looking for with Cantha?

You say you expect Cantha to change but you are also saying you expect Cantha to look the same as well because, I am assuming, nostalgia for GW1 Factions appears to be the main focus of your excitment for EoD contents rather than the content itself.

 

Either way, we are just the fourm users for GW2 so we're just the minority when it comes to the opinions with GW2 content (different or similar opinions but still the minority) and not like the majority of players ever touch the fourms anyways like in most games. 

 

Not to mention as other have said, the recent focus on New Kaineng is about showing the new part of Kaineng located in the South which is where we will go in GW2 EoD instead of the old part of Kaineng in the North.

I expect we may see a lot of places that is recognized as "Cantha" in the North more (though in ruin state) since it is likely the Canthan governement may not have attempted to rebuild the North location but leave it in ruins thus leaving many of the old buildings underwater or left to be rebuilt by those who choose to live there. My best guess from what we are given so far the Canthan government focus in development and changes for Kaineng appears to be the South region only which may lead to part of the plot about how those living in or near New Kaineng have better lives due to how much easier life is thanks to Jade Tech (remember a previous trailer mentions how Canthans have become obsessed with Jade tech making their life easier and not caring about the cost) while those living in the older part of Kaineng are treated as second class citizens with harsher lives since they don't have the convenience of Jade tech and may have to depend on older traditions and methods of Cantha. 

 

However, Old Kainent maybe going to be the next Living World content since the wordings of Anet developers so far appears to give the impression they may not be giving us any part of Old Kaineng in EoD Main Story but instead maybe the next Living world story unless they surprise us on release and reveal there is one more Map they kept a secret located in part of Old Kaineng.

There is quite a difference between wanting SOMETHING to be recognizable and EVERYTHING to be the same as it used to be. As it stands there appears to be NOTHING from old Kaineng that isn't a complete desolation. As people have pointed out, they even moved the city into regions we never visited before, and those that we have were converted into massive research facilities.

[The Greyhawk.9107]

46 minutes ago, Narcemus.1348 said:

There is quite a difference between wanting SOMETHING to be recognizable and EVERYTHING to be the same as it used to be. As it stands there appears to be NOTHING from old Kaineng that isn't a complete desolation. As people have pointed out, they even moved the city into regions we never visited before, and those that we have were converted into massive research facilities.

Thank you.

[EdwinLi.1284]

6 hours ago, The Greyhawk.9107 said:

An astounding misrepresentation of someone else's words, tell me do you work in public office by chance?  Maybe look into politics as a career choice if you haven't. 

I honestly don't know why you are always so mad and angry at me most of the time when I have never commented to you as a attack.

 

As I said, people maybe seeing what you're saying as a contradiction. Rather than commenting with a attack like this, it will be better to clearify more about what you mean by "recognizable" because people tend to categorize recognizable and the same together due to how these two are more often used to define each other by certain people. 

Reactions like this is one of many reasons why the majority of GW2 players (like most video games) may not choose to communicate on the forums but instead take their discussion to outside sources.

 

3 hours ago, Narcemus.1348 said:

There is quite a difference between wanting SOMETHING to be recognizable and EVERYTHING to be the same as it used to be. As it stands there appears to be NOTHING from old Kaineng that isn't a complete desolation. As people have pointed out, they even moved the city into regions we never visited before, and those that we have were converted into massive research facilities.

 

They are different but it is rather difficult to determine what Greyhawk is trying to communicate with his comment. As I said, people maybe seeing his comment as a contradiction because people do tend to categorize recognizable and the same together. Not everyone will do this but it is a common thing that happens when people want to define something as recognizable or seeing it as something that has not changed.

Edited February 7, 2022 by EdwinLi.1284

[Kayberz.5346]

Im kinda wondering if the comment they made about sewage and the disposal of waste was just a throwaway statement to brush off the lack of a visible sewage system OR if it was somewhat of a plot relevant hint

 

With the theme of cantha being this rapidly developing technological nation i see the potential for some polution and environmentalist tones in the story.

Dragonjade may have some kind of "waste" material associated with it, similar to radioactive materials with nuclear power, i could see the potential for the people in charge of all the development of jade tech being irresponsible with how they handle any dangerous waste materials that come from their industry, perhaps just dumping it into the Echovald wilds causing all kinds of issues.

At the end of the most recent trailer we see that strange black/rainbow magic stuff coalescing together out of the Dragonjade,  and earlier in the trailer i noticed that one of the jade mech bosses they show has that same black/rainbow magic around them

Presumably dragonjade tech doesn't just have infinite power and work indefinitely, it probably "runs out" at some point. Im wondering if perhaps that black/rainbow magic is something that is a result of dragonjade being "spent" and as a result it releases this strange essence which may be a more potent form of volatile magic like we see in LWs3 and 4, and maybe in such a concentrated state has formed sentience similar to the ley-line anomalies 

Edited February 7, 2022 by Kayberz.5346

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

On 2/6/2022 at 11:23 AM, Teratus.2859 said:

Naturally the world is going to change in 250 years, if you went back in time only 50-60 years years from the present day you probably wouldn't even recognise the world you were in.

I really hate this argument, because 250 years ago was the Industrial Revolution, and ever since the Industrial Revolution, technology had been growing at a very exponential rate.

When you want to make a "250 years is a long time" argument, I can just as easily point out the lack of differences between 1250 and 1500, or 1500 and 1750. Or literally any other time period prior to the Industrial Revolution.

There is a possibility of things changing greatly, but also not. Even with the technologal advancements that got a huge boost in the Industrial Revolution, in Europe there are still cities with structures that are centuries years old, and maintained in good condition at that. Take a visit to Italian cities and you'll see architecture dating back to the 1500s easily.

The past 250 years for us might've led a ton of technological advancements for us, but that doesn't it does universally, nor does it mean everything older than 250 years is pure ruins and ancient history.

 

This is part of my issue with Cantha's rapid advancement, their equivalent of the Industrial Revolution began less than 100 years prior to the game, which would put it in roughly 1860s-1900s equivalents - aka roughly where the charr largely are in core, who had their industrial revolution ~200-150 years ago. Instead, they're above the asura, who didn't have an industrial revolution since GW1 which explains why their magitech status in core is literally the same as GW1 just more widespread and recovered from their brief 50 year "dark age". Of course, the existence of "magic" throws a wrench in the comparative timelines, so it isn't too far out that Cantha advanced more than reality did once hitting an Industrial Revolution, but the heavy cyberpunk aesthetic feels less like natural progression, and more like the devs just wanted to catch the last waves of the cyberpunk craze led by the CP2077 hype.

 

In this situation, though, the northern coast of Kaineng City being struck and ruined makes sense. In GW1, Bukdek Byway was full of wooden structures collapsing under its own weight, and it would be a direct hit from a tsunami that was established back in 2007 to wipe out the Battle Isles. Raisu Palace could've survived even if damaged and swarming with risen, but Wajjun Bazzar would also be hit - and of course Kaineng Center. South of those maps, they should only at most be hit by temporary rising water levels (so the Undercity and Shunzun Tunnels flood out for a few months). Sunjiang District, Tahnnakai Temple, Vizunah Square, Nahpui Quarter, and Xaquang Skyway should be relatively untouched so long as the lower wood doesn't rot out from the raising water levels (which at most should just affect Xaquang Skyway).

[Sajuuk Khar.1509]

11 hours ago, The Greyhawk.9107 said:

I'm sick to death of this strawman claim that some of us want Cantha to be exactly the same or that we don't understand that things change in 250 years.  Because EVERYONE knows that things change over time.  But not EVERYTHING changes COMPLETELY.  The real world has numerous examples:  The Taj Mahal has been around for almost 400 years, the Alamo is 300, the Forbidden City is 600, and the Tower of London is spitting distance from a thousand.  We've kept some things from the past in the midst of the rapid changes of the modern era.

The point to all this is that what a lot of us want something from the Cantha we knew from GW1 and I at least am highly skeptical that there will be anything recognizable.  Between the changes in the art style and Anet's habit of just destroying old things there really hasn't been a lot things and places that can be recognizable on sight in GW2 as something left over from GW1.  A few things here and there, sure, but very little.  And to date I've seen very little so far that looks like it'd be recognizable as being Cantha and not some generic location from Blade And Soul or some similar game.

Shing Jea, the Jade Sea, and Echovald, all look pretty much the same as they did in GW1. Kaineng city has the same overall style, just with jade stuff and holograms slapped on top. Its all pretty recognizable as is.

And what habit of just destroying old things? The only thing anet has really destroyed is old LA. Hell, one of the most overused complaints about GW2 is how similar things are, and how heavily they lean into places from GW1.

Edited February 7, 2022 by Sajuuk Khar.1509

[Kayberz.5346]

13 minutes ago, Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:

Shing Jea, the Jade Sea, and Echovald, all look pretty much the same as they did in GW1. Kaineng city has the same overall style, just with jade stuff and holograms slapped on top.

Its all pretty recognizable as is.

These people have been complaining about pretty much every single thing that has been shown about the expansion 

They made their mind up a long time ago that they didn't want to like the expansion for whatever reason. Anything Anet would have shown would have been met with the same inconsistent hate regardless of what it looked like 

These people do literally nothing but post negative feedback and complain about things on the forums, zero point in trying to have a discussion in good faith with them. If you point out inconsistencies in their arguments they'll just backtrack into subjective opinion based arguments and stand their ground that way.

Edited February 7, 2022 by Kayberz.5346

[Zola.6197]

Yeah, I think it’s a bit quick to judge these things. We’ve only seen snapshots of the maps with loads of content turned off for spoilers. Obviously New Kaineng is going to be very different, but the devs even stipulated that Shing Jea will provide that more traditional GW1 cantha feel. So I think there will be plenty of recognizable elements, they just might not be in New Kaineng.

I will say the GW2 Echovald looks much less gloomy than I remember though, and seemed to reuse a lot of HoTs assets.

Edited February 7, 2022 by Zola.6197

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

10 hours ago, EdwinLi.1284 said:

Is it because you controdict yourself a lot with what you're looking for with Cantha?

You say you expect Cantha to change but you are also saying you expect Cantha to look the same as well because, I am assuming, nostalgia for GW1 Factions appears to be the main focus of your excitment for EoD contents rather than the content itself.

It is not a contradiction to say you expect changes, but also expect recognizability.

Jahai Bluffs is perhaps a good example of this. Its layout is very recognizable on the world map, easily the best map in terms of recognition to GW1 (compared to core maps especially which just plop down some PoI and a few unique models that seem vaguely similar but the layout is utterly different), and some parts of it can also be recognized directly. But it also looks like there was renovation and advancement done to the structures of the map, and of course the rifts have shifted things greatly too.

That said, I think Shing Jea may fill that role of nostalgia for players. Echovald won't since anything nostalgic is just pure ruins like the core game, and Jade Sea map is explicitly stated to be mostly covering the unexplorable portion of the world map from GW1 - so outside the heavily altered Jade Quarry and Harvest Temple, there won't be much if any recognizable locations. The poor district of Kaineng City may also fill that role, but that's to be seen.

Edited February 7, 2022 by Konig Des Todes.2086

[Sajuuk Khar.1509]

9 minutes ago, Kayberz.5346 said:

These people have been complaining about pretty much every single thing that has been shown about the expansion 

They made their mind up a long time ago that they didn't want to like the expansion for whatever reason. Anything Anet would have shown would have been met with the same inconsistent hate regardless of what it looked like 

These people do literally nothing but post negative feedback and complain about things on the forums, zero point in trying to have a discussion in good faith with them. If you point out inconsistencies in their arguments they'll just backtrack into subjective opinion based arguments and stand their ground that way.

Pretty much. Its just the modern video game mentality you see everywhere, a near religious need to find anything, no matter how small or petty, to hate and overblow it to epic proportions.

[Kayberz.5346]

39 minutes ago, Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:

Pretty much. Its just the modern video game mentality you see everywhere, a near religious need to find anything, no matter how small or petty, to hate and overblow it to epic proportions.

Imagine spending pretty much every single day browsing forums to post negative opinions.

You would think if these people were so pessimistic about the game they would do something else with their time.

Its unfortunate that some of the most active users on the forums are also the most perpetually negative ones. Its not a good look.

What a sad way to live

Edited February 7, 2022 by Kayberz.5346

[Teratus.2859]

2 hours ago, Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

I really hate this argument, because 250 years ago was the Industrial Revolution, and ever since the Industrial Revolution, technology had been growing at a very exponential rate.

When you want to make a "250 years is a long time" argument, I can just as easily point out the lack of differences between 1250 and 1500, or 1500 and 1750. Or literally any other time period prior to the Industrial Revolution.

There is a possibility of things changing greatly, but also not. Even with the technologal advancements that got a huge boost in the Industrial Revolution, in Europe there are still cities with structures that are centuries years old, and maintained in good condition at that. Take a visit to Italian cities and you'll see architecture dating back to the 1500s easily.

The past 250 years for us might've led a ton of technological advancements for us, but that doesn't it does universally, nor does it mean everything older than 250 years is pure ruins and ancient history.

 

This is part of my issue with Cantha's rapid advancement, their equivalent of the Industrial Revolution began less than 100 years prior to the game, which would put it in roughly 1860s-1900s equivalents - aka roughly where the charr largely are in core, who had their industrial revolution ~200-150 years ago. Instead, they're above the asura, who didn't have an industrial revolution since GW1 which explains why their magitech status in core is literally the same as GW1 just more widespread and recovered from their brief 50 year "dark age". Of course, the existence of "magic" throws a wrench in the comparative timelines, so it isn't too far out that Cantha advanced more than reality did once hitting an Industrial Revolution, but the heavy cyberpunk aesthetic feels less like natural progression, and more like the devs just wanted to catch the last waves of the cyberpunk craze led by the CP2077 hype.

 

In this situation, though, the northern coast of Kaineng City being struck and ruined makes sense. In GW1, Bukdek Byway was full of wooden structures collapsing under its own weight, and it would be a direct hit from a tsunami that was established back in 2007 to wipe out the Battle Isles. Raisu Palace could've survived even if damaged and swarming with risen, but Wajjun Bazzar would also be hit - and of course Kaineng Center. South of those maps, they should only at most be hit by temporary rising water levels (so the Undercity and Shunzun Tunnels flood out for a few months). Sunjiang District, Tahnnakai Temple, Vizunah Square, Nahpui Quarter, and Xaquang Skyway should be relatively untouched so long as the lower wood doesn't rot out from the raising water levels (which at most should just affect Xaquang Skyway).

Unless you hit a dark age or some kind of stagnation period progress tends to increase overtime more and more drastically, hence the industrial revolution you mentioned opening the door for rapid advancement.

250 years of advancement may not have been that big a difference a thousand years ago but for more technologically advanced societies it definitely can be.

In Gw2 I would say the argument definitely stands considering every region of the world has drastically changed from what we saw in Gw1.
The entire region of Kryta is borderline unrecognisable from what it was in Gw1.

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

15 minutes ago, Teratus.2859 said:

Unless you hit a dark age or some kind of stagnation period progress tends to increase overtime more and more drastically, hence the industrial revolution you mentioned opening the door for rapid advancement.

Oh, I'm not disagreeing that there's constant progression. Just that there's not leaps and bounds that we have experienced in our own lifetime, but people often act as if there is and use our own recent century to explain it away. Progress in Europe was much slower prior to the Industrial revolution for the past few thousand years.

Quote

In Gw2 I would say the argument definitely stands considering every region of the world has drastically changed from what we saw in Gw1.

That's... actually part of the issue for some. Yes, progress is there, but the whole "every region of the world has drastically changed" is the issue people are pointing out.

Personally speaking, it's the fact that any structure from GW1 is either missing in GW2, or in total ruins. In some cases like Ascalon City and Lion's Arch, this makes sense for it to be in ruins. In other cases, Shaemoor and Morah, not so much for there to be nothing recognizable, or Droknar's Forge, which somehow sunk due to tidal wave despite a big kitten mountain in the way. I'd love more maps like Jahai Bluffs, Thunderhead Peaks, and Grothmar Valley which has a very notably similar terrain layout and structural design.

In terms of technological advancements, my only issue comes from Rata Novus somehow providing leaps and bounds for asuratech (Novans were not more invested in advancements than Rata Sum, so why is the discovery allowing such improvements?) and Cantha's <100 years of development putting them from on par to modern GW2 Kryta, to above Rata Novans. It just seems unrealistically fast there, and the argument defending both of these is so often "well look at how different America is now compared to 1776!"

But that's apples and oranges.

Edited February 7, 2022 by Konig Des Todes.2086

[Randulf.7614]

14 hours ago, The Greyhawk.9107 said:

I'm sick to death of this strawman claim that some of us want Cantha to be exactly the same or that we don't understand that things change in 250 years.  Because EVERYONE knows that things change over time.  But not EVERYTHING changes COMPLETELY.  The real world has numerous examples:  The Taj Mahal has been around for almost 400 years, the Alamo is 300, the Forbidden City is 600, and the Tower of London is spitting distance from a thousand.  We've kept some things from the past in the midst of the rapid changes of the modern era.

The point to all this is that what a lot of us want something from the Cantha we knew from GW1 and I at least am highly skeptical that there will be anything recognizable.  Between the changes in the art style and Anet's habit of just destroying old things there really hasn't been a lot things and places that can be recognizable on sight in GW2 as something left over from GW1.  A few things here and there, sure, but very little.  And to date I've seen very little so far that looks like it'd be recognizable as being Cantha and not some generic location from Blade And Soul or some similar game.

To be fair, that’s a very valid point of view and concern. I’ve always felt that whilst some areas of GW1 appeared in core, they were not recognisable as such. Same with Elona and I’d argue only Augury Rock and the basic overlay of Desolation married up. All the iconic old areas like LA, Ascalon, Elonian hanging gardens and the Moon Palace were either wrecked beyond recognition or lacked the same surrounding presence.

 

I have zero such attachment to Factions Cantha and love the new look, but I can empathise with the desire to see the odd piece of standout location or geography that still retains some feel of it’s original appearance.

[Tyson.5160]

17 hours ago, The Greyhawk.9107 said:

 The real world has numerous examples:  The Taj Mahal has been around for almost 400 years, the Alamo is 300, the Forbidden City is 600, and the Tower of London is spitting distance from a thousand.  We've kept some things from the past in the midst of the rapid changes of the modern era.

 

I get your point however you are overlooking a key difference though, between our world and Tyria.

 

Titanic monstrosities called Elder Dragons. Beings that change landscapes just by flying around and corrupting things.

 

Having Kaineng flooded by Zhaitan makes sense to me, especially since it devastated many of the coastal regions too in central Tyria. Even Sandswept mention the catastrophe. 
 

i don’t know, I just don’t see it as this huge kick in the crotch that some people are describing.

[EdwinLi.1284]

11 hours ago, Kayberz.5346 said:

Im kinda wondering if the comment they made about sewage and the disposal of waste was just a throwaway statement to brush off the lack of a visible sewage system OR if it was somewhat of a plot relevant hint

 

With the theme of cantha being this rapidly developing technological nation i see the potential for some polution and environmentalist tones in the story.

Dragonjade may have some kind of "waste" material associated with it, similar to radioactive materials with nuclear power, i could see the potential for the people in charge of all the development of jade tech being irresponsible with how they handle any dangerous waste materials that come from their industry, perhaps just dumping it into the Echovald wilds causing all kinds of issues.

At the end of the most recent trailer we see that strange black/rainbow magic stuff coalescing together out of the Dragonjade,  and earlier in the trailer i noticed that one of the jade mech bosses they show has that same black/rainbow magic around them

Presumably dragonjade tech doesn't just have infinite power and work indefinitely, it probably "runs out" at some point. Im wondering if perhaps that black/rainbow magic is something that is a result of dragonjade being "spent" and as a result it releases this strange essence which may be a more potent form of volatile magic like we see in LWs3 and 4, and maybe in such a concentrated state has formed sentience similar to the ley-line anomalies 

I think it is for convenience to not design the sewers in the New Kaineng area and for plot reasons since if there is something wrong with Jade Tech then the waste it produce maybe something the Canthan government want to hide to keep people ignorant of the cost for depending on Jade tech.

A more reasonable lore reason for such a action is that the Canthan government really want to focus on New Kaineng being the best part of Cantha to live in but if we go to Old Kaineng where they have little focus of making things better then we may see the sewer system more openly due to lack of care being given to Old Kaineng.

 

9 hours ago, Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

I really hate this argument, because 250 years ago was the Industrial Revolution, and ever since the Industrial Revolution, technology had been growing at a very exponential rate.

When you want to make a "250 years is a long time" argument, I can just as easily point out the lack of differences between 1250 and 1500, or 1500 and 1750. Or literally any other time period prior to the Industrial Revolution.

There is a possibility of things changing greatly, but also not. Even with the technologal advancements that got a huge boost in the Industrial Revolution, in Europe there are still cities with structures that are centuries years old, and maintained in good condition at that. Take a visit to Italian cities and you'll see architecture dating back to the 1500s easily.

The past 250 years for us might've led a ton of technological advancements for us, but that doesn't it does universally, nor does it mean everything older than 250 years is pure ruins and ancient history.

 

This is part of my issue with Cantha's rapid advancement, their equivalent of the Industrial Revolution began less than 100 years prior to the game, which would put it in roughly 1860s-1900s equivalents - aka roughly where the charr largely are in core, who had their industrial revolution ~200-150 years ago. Instead, they're above the asura, who didn't have an industrial revolution since GW1 which explains why their magitech status in core is literally the same as GW1 just more widespread and recovered from their brief 50 year "dark age". Of course, the existence of "magic" throws a wrench in the comparative timelines, so it isn't too far out that Cantha advanced more than reality did once hitting an Industrial Revolution, but the heavy cyberpunk aesthetic feels less like natural progression, and more like the devs just wanted to catch the last waves of the cyberpunk craze led by the CP2077 hype.

 

In this situation, though, the northern coast of Kaineng City being struck and ruined makes sense. In GW1, Bukdek Byway was full of wooden structures collapsing under its own weight, and it would be a direct hit from a tsunami that was established back in 2007 to wipe out the Battle Isles. Raisu Palace could've survived even if damaged and swarming with risen, but Wajjun Bazzar would also be hit - and of course Kaineng Center. South of those maps, they should only at most be hit by temporary rising water levels (so the Undercity and Shunzun Tunnels flood out for a few months). Sunjiang District, Tahnnakai Temple, Vizunah Square, Nahpui Quarter, and Xaquang Skyway should be relatively untouched so long as the lower wood doesn't rot out from the raising water levels (which at most should just affect Xaquang Skyway).

I still suspect part of the mystery involving EoD plot maybe focus on the unusual sudden advancement of Cantha through Jade Tech and its discovery. Recent information reveal shows that Joon is a very questionable person since she founded the new Jade brotherhood and began focus a lot more on unethical ideas which we know some of them involving testing Dragon Jade on living beings.

Edited February 8, 2022 by EdwinLi.1284

[Teratus.2859]

12 hours ago, Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

Oh, I'm not disagreeing that there's constant progression. Just that there's not leaps and bounds that we have experienced in our own lifetime, but people often act as if there is and use our own recent century to explain it away. Progress in Europe was much slower prior to the Industrial revolution for the past few thousand years.

That's... actually part of the issue for some. Yes, progress is there, but the whole "every region of the world has drastically changed" is the issue people are pointing out.

Personally speaking, it's the fact that any structure from GW1 is either missing in GW2, or in total ruins. In some cases like Ascalon City and Lion's Arch, this makes sense for it to be in ruins. In other cases, Shaemoor and Morah, not so much for there to be nothing recognizable, or Droknar's Forge, which somehow sunk due to tidal wave despite a big kitten mountain in the way. I'd love more maps like Jahai Bluffs, Thunderhead Peaks, and Grothmar Valley which has a very notably similar terrain layout and structural design.

In terms of technological advancements, my only issue comes from Rata Novus somehow providing leaps and bounds for asuratech (Novans were not more invested in advancements than Rata Sum, so why is the discovery allowing such improvements?) and Cantha's <100 years of development putting them from on par to modern GW2 Kryta, to above Rata Novans. It just seems unrealistically fast there, and the argument defending both of these is so often "well look at how different America is now compared to 1776!"

But that's apples and oranges.

I certainly agree with what you said about trying to capitalise on the whole cyberpunk thing, I've made my distaste for that particular style quite often in other threads as well.

But I think what Anet have pretty much gone for with Cantha is in some way a kind of industrial revolution for their nation due to the new way they've harnessed Dragon Jade and discovered Jade Tech.
Canthans have been mining and using Jade for a long time anyway, they've just found a new way of using it which has drastically advanced their culture.

The way I'm thinking of it is more along the lines of say humans discovering how to harness a sustainable form of fusion energy which would drastically change our countries and how we look at current energy and environmental problems.

I do agree though that Jade Tech being superior to Asuran Technology is a bit of a stretch.
Especially when it really doesn't look the part.
Asuran tech looks drastically more advanced than Jade tech does so I do hope there is some kind of confirmation in End of Dragons that it isn't quite on the same level as Asuran tech even if it is something the Asura can also adopt to advance their own technology down the road.
I'd quite like to see what an Asuran Dragon Jade Golem would look like in all honesty.

[Narcemus.1348]

18 hours ago, Kayberz.5346 said:

These people have been complaining about pretty much every single thing that has been shown about the expansion 

They made their mind up a long time ago that they didn't want to like the expansion for whatever reason. Anything Anet would have shown would have been met with the same inconsistent hate regardless of what it looked like 

These people do literally nothing but post negative feedback and complain about things on the forums, zero point in trying to have a discussion in good faith with them. If you point out inconsistencies in their arguments they'll just backtrack into subjective opinion based arguments and stand their ground that way.

 

Honestly, comments like this hurt. I personally have been following and have loved this franchise since sometime between Eye of the North and the release of Guild Wars 2. Sometimes that sort of love produces excitement and joy (I truly loved what they showed of the Jade Sea, Path of Fire was an incredible expansion especially when it comes to maps and exploration, etc...) And sometimes it produces disappointment (disappointment in Kaineng Center and the realization that so little remains in decent condition from the predecessor game.)

 

I truly hate that we seem to live in a society that disallows people to have opinions, as if such things can be quantifiably right or wrong. For example if I were to admit I loved the most recent Star Wars trilogy I would be vehemently opposed on many sides (not to start that sort of debate here, merely to make a comparison).