Changes in EoD and Mystic Clovers [Merged]

[Thevaultdwellinggamer.4267]

Seriously though, if they were going to do this, They should have been hush hush about it at the very least, cause a sensitive topic like this is going to spark a panic, and everyone and their grandmother is going to panic buy the coins for future profit.

I do envy the people who have been hording them though.

[ArchonWing.9480]

15 minutes ago, Hannelore.8153 said:

The problem was that players were doing Fractals for the MCs and then turning around and turning them into Mystic Clovers immediately, so as long as they were doing T4+CMs they not only got their required Mystic Coins & Clovers for free but turned a profit in doing so, which isn't how Legendaries are meant to be made.

 

All other methods of obtaining these items (especially PvP and WvW) require far more time and effort, and don't turn anywhere near as much of a profit.

Well, can't say for PvP but nothing should ever be compared to WvW rewards or brought that to that level. It's just bad.

To get 6 mystic coins from WvW weekly, you'd need to play 8.64 hours even assuming you're Diamond Rank and you only play when the server is 1st. This is not even worth considering for the majority of WvW players, much less Gw2 players. I mean if Mystic Coins were given every tier, that'd be more like it.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Special:RunQuery/WvW_skirmish_pip_query?title=Special%3ARunQuery%2FWvW_skirmish_pip_query&pfRunQueryFormName=WvW+skirmish+pip+query&WvW+skirmish+pip+query[skirmish+ticket+target]=365&WvW+skirmish+pip+query[max+playtime]=24&WvW+skirmish+pip+query[war+score+placement+low]=0&WvW+skirmish+pip+query[war+score+placement+mid]=0&WvW+skirmish+pip+query[war+score+placement+high]=100&WvW+skirmish+pip+query[rank]=Diamond&WvW+skirmish+pip+query[commander]=0&WvW+skirmish+pip+query[publiccommander]=0&WvW+skirmish+pip+query[commitment]=100&WvW+skirmish+pip+query[map]=Core+WvW+map&WvW+skirmish+pip+query[participation]=6&WvW+skirmish+pip+query[enhancement]=Yes&WvW+skirmish+pip+query[enrichment]=Yes&WvW+skirmish+pip+query[xp+boost]=No&WvW+skirmish+pip+query[c+boost]=No&WvW+skirmish+pip+query[bl+boost]=No&WvW+skirmish+pip+query[call+of+war]=No&wpRunQuery=&pf_free_text=

 

Edited February 12, 2022 by ArchonWing.9480

[Ashen.2907]

2 hours ago, Radina.6057 said:

Thats clearly the main intention. They axe old content and promote the new one. They did it with dungeons, now they do it with fractals (and raids).

"Axing" existing content, by making it unrewarding, means that even with several new strikes there is a net loss of rewarding content with the addition of the expansion.

[Asum.4960]

Changing Fractal CM rewards from ~25 Mystic Coins per week, 14 Mystic Clovers for 14 Mystic Coins per week to 0 Mystic Coins per week and 10 Mystic Clovers for 20 Mystic Coins per week seems incredibly heavy handed to me. 

Fractals already took profit hits over time with Agony Infusions becoming virtually worthless, Stabilizing Matrices dropping significantly etc., and especially for CM's I'm not sure what the incentive for those will be going forward, over just let's say, doing Recs (and maybe T4's) and calling it a day. 

 

To justify this heavy reward nerf with saying you don't want Fractals to be the "one-stop source" for Mystic Coins, and then making the 4 new Strikes the one single endgame source for them also seems really silly (as is calling these new Mystic Clovers "discounted" after essentially doubling their price, -1 Ecto+1Mystic Coin isn't a discount). 

What is the point of the (now almost twice as pricy) Mystic Coin to Mystic Clover conversion for Fractals and Raids, when you can only get Mystic Coins through Strikes (and let's be honest, the biggest influx is whales buying multiple, if not hundreds of, accounts for Log-in Rewards, not CM's) - If you then also get your Clovers from Strikes (10 Mystic Coins per week from Strikes, 5 Clovers costing 10 Mystic Coins per week from Strikes)?

 

So Fractals and Raids are just there to convert excess Mystic Coins (from Log-in rewards etc., or bought) to Mystic Clovers? What about players who don't need Mystic Clovers, while Mystic Coins stay attractive as reward to liquidate? And again, where does that leave Fractal CM's in particular? Why run them over faster and easier T4's and Recs if the harder content doesn't offer any extra, long-term useful, rewards? 

Rec's already is the best money for time I believe, shouldn't more challenging content be more rewarding?

 

Idk if I'm missing something here, but this just seems like an assassination of the Fractal CM scene and, unless EoD Strikes are wildly popular (but potentially even then), a further inflation of Mystic Coin prices (-~25 MC's per player per week from Fractal CM's, +10 Mystic Coins per player per week from Strikes, plus doubling the MC cost for Clovers). 

 

If you want to make Fractal CM rewards more consistent, why not change the rewards from 0-3 Mystic Coins on CM Bosses to a flat 1 Mystic Coin at the end of each CM, or if you want to nerf it further, a repeatable achievement that grants 1 Mystic Coin for every 2-3 CM's completed?

 

While I'm personally not affected by this (it's been years since I've played for rewards, I'm set), I just don't see this being a good thing for the game. Rather than supporting a variety of endgame, it's seems to be intended to funnel everybody into EoD Strikes, which launches with just 4 Bosses - just repeating those over and over again because of all the new EoD rewards for them + becoming the sole endgame source of MC's will get old really quick and runs the risk of burning players out, rather than launching a new endgame staple.

Considering with this Reward scheme you will need ~5 times the amount of players playing EoD Strikes religiously than currently players playing Fractal CM's, just for the MC prices to remain the same, once the Strike population drops after the initial hype and chasing new EoD rewards, MC prices might skyrocket while Fractals CM's lay dead.

Edited February 12, 2022 by Asum.4960

[Khisanth.2948]

3 hours ago, Malus.2184 said:

This is being billed as a discount while it's effectively a price increase. That's my real worry.

It is billed as a discount compared to making it them through the mystic forge.

3 hours ago, evlover.6270 said:

If the mystic coin rewards from cms are too inconsistent, why not just remove them from the first bosses and have 1-2 or 1-3 guaranteed from the last boss of each cm? (one time daily)

That sounds like you didn't read the article because the reason is directly stated.

Quote

making fractals the most efficient one-stop source for obtaining the gold, Mystic Coins, and Mystic Clovers you need for legendary progression.

The coins weren't removed because the rewards are inconsistent. The coins were removed because the devs felt that the fractals were too efficient for crafting a legendary.

 

 

[Aeon.4583]

Looks like the only good loot from Fractal CMs will be Integrated Fractal Matrix, and it is account bound.

[mythical.6315]

3 hours ago, Asum.4960 said:

Changing Fractal CM rewards from ~25 Mystic Coins per week,

 

If that's all that players got across an entire week then it's hardly going to impact players doing CMs and that's assuming the number isn't an exaggeration in the first place. 

[George.9745]

13 minutes ago, mythical.6315 said:

 

If that's all that players got across an entire week then it's hardly going to impact players doing CMs and that's assuming the number isn't an exaggeration in the first place. 

You can get between 0-63/week. So 25 is not an exageration at all. Stop deffending bad practices and maybe at least read the changes? And then come back. You probably don't even run fractals to know how many MCs u can get/day. 

[mythical.6315]

43 minutes ago, George.9745 said:

You can get between 0-63/week. So 25 is not an exageration at all. Stop deffending bad practices and maybe at least read the changes? And then come back. You probably don't even run fractals to know how many MCs u can get/day. 

It is if it’s not the average. Just because 1-3 mystic coins is a possible drop, does not mean that you will always get it nor would you get 3. The EU farming site reports the mystic coins are a small percentage of the overall loot. It’s around an average of 2-3 which is what other players have reported in the past of Reddit and such.  I don’t think you even know the breakdown of the fractal rewards. 

[George.9745]

2 minutes ago, mythical.6315 said:

It is if it’s not the average. Just because 1-3 mystic coins is a possible drop, does not mean that you will always get it nor would you get 3. The EU farming site reports the mystic coins are a small percentage of the overall loot. It’s around an average of 2-3 which is what other players have reported in the past of Reddit and such.  I don’t think you even know the breakdown of the fractal rewards. 

Again. U can't see the issue because u don't play them. No point in arguing. U have no valid points. Bye

[Asum.4960]

1 hour ago, mythical.6315 said:

 

If that's all that players got across an entire week then it's hardly going to impact players doing CMs and that's assuming the number isn't an exaggeration in the first place. 

What else would you do CM's for though? Especially for players who have maxed everything out (Omni Potion, Fractal God, Skins/Infusions etc. - aka likely the largest demographic of frequent CM runners at this point), why do the extra effort of playing CM's for ~50 gold less a week, when Recs and T4 gives you all the same Fractal loot but takes half an hour less a day (time now better spent doing EoD Strikes for MC's), and far less effort?

[mythical.6315]

4 minutes ago, George.9745 said:

Again. U can't see the issue because u don't play them. No point in arguing. U have no valid points. Bye

I do them several times a week and I don’t get as many mystic coins as you claim. Don’t blindly make assumptions about me. 

[mythical.6315]

2 minutes ago, Asum.4960 said:

What else would you do CM's for though? Especially for players who have maxed everything out (Omni Potion, Fractal God, Skins/Infusions etc. - aka likely the largest demographic of frequent CM runners at this point), why do the extra effort of playing CM's for ~50 gold less a week, when Recs and T4 gives you all the same Fractal loot but takes half an hour less a day (time now better spent doing EoD Strikes for MC's), and far less effort?

For the gold?

[George.9745]

4 minutes ago, mythical.6315 said:

I do them several times a week and I don’t get as many mystic coins as you claim. Don’t blindly make assumptions about me. 

I do them daily and every week end up with around 30 proffit and 14 clovers. So yeah. It's a big change for me and others who like doing them.

[Asum.4960]

18 hours ago, mythical.6315 said:

For the gold?

What gold? The extra gold from CM's largely is Mystic Coins. Other than that there's only the chance for 1-5 Ectos. Unless the CM's are daily anyway, I don't really see players spending the time to do them anymore just for that. 

Why spent 30m+ doing some of the hardest content ingame for a chance to get a few extra Ectos (which you can get faster and far easier just about anywhere else - like just farming low Tier Fractals for the same amount of time for far more gold)? 

The point isn't that Fractals won't be worth running anymore, but CM's in particular. 

Unless you need extra Pristine and normal Fractal Relics and or Research Pages, which I'd wager most long time frequent CM runners aren't, there isn't really any point to CM's once MC's are gone - especially since that time can be spent better doing EoD Strikes. 

Recs already are more gold per time spent, once the MC's are gone from CM's, you are better off just running Recs, maybe T4's, and then doing EoD Strikes. 

The selling point of CM's, outside of being some of the most engaging and fun content in the game, (longterm) was MC's.

Edited February 13, 2022 by Asum.4960

[Yellow Rainbow.6142]

I am guessing Anet idea is that more people will do strike mission = more mystic coin in market = cheaper coin price.

That's the only logic I can think of it.

[casualkenny.9817]

the idea of significantly nerfing old content rewards to boost new content patronage is bad.

 

in the short term, you force migration to new content. that players may not enjoy, at all. players want content that is enjoyable AND rewarding. 

 

in the long term (which is essential for any mmo), you reduce the pool of possible activities worth doing, and players now need to repeat the same stuff for loot. they could, purely theoretically, do old and unprofitable content for the lols, but that's such a waste, all that wasted content with dead LFGs.

 

old content should at max be nerfed to 80% (90% is better) of optimal loot rates, and restructured after X years to be run at 30% capacity, so smaller groups of 2-15  can do them. this provides additional avenues for guild-organised explorations where veterans and newbies can do something together and still gain something from it. and new content should be designed with that in mind.

 

an optimal situation is where there's multiple things worth doing in-game, and anyone who is bored of their daily routine can just open LFG and jump in to niche content that is worth doing. and new players will have vets to do them with (and get guidance)

 

there's just so much wasted content that's not worth doing rewards-wise.

 

and no, "join a good guild" doesn't work for everybody.

 

disclaimer:

i'm not skilled enough to do T4 (let alone CMs), and T3 LFGs are deader than a doornail and not really worth doing, and most imptly i have been on hiatus for more than 2 yrs due to boredom,  so this change won't affect me at all.

[Dragonis.5964]

So they say that one kind of content is too effecient for crafting a legendary. But they just move it to new content so we play that instead. New strikes will become the most efficient way for lege crafting being the best way of getting mystic coins that you can spend right away at the same place ... no need to do any other content!

They missed the point there and should have spread MC sources to all content, not just to strikes. 

[Malus.2184]

I've been rethinking and due top the steep increase in difficulty each from 98 to 99 to 100 they should reward 1, 2, and 3 MC respectively else 98 would be farmed relentlessly for the same reward as 99 despite 99 being harder.

[Chaos.8460]

You can clearly tell that they don't play their own game or if they do they just 

item.add(mc_id) 5000

item.add(clover_id) 5000

 

"It was too easy to get them, sucks to be you. Also if u liked doing 1hr of cms a day and feel rewarded, kitten off"

Edited February 12, 2022 by Chaos.8460

[Gorem.8104]

11 hours ago, ArchonWing.9480 said:

"Mystic coins are too common, let's  take away ways to get them"

-said no one ever.

I mean I don't do CMs anymore, but coins were a big deal with that, and I'm not going to arbitrarily switch over to raids or w/e just to get them.

Exactly, considering Mystic Tribute is a thing, everyone I talk to was hoping EoD would only add ways for more coins to drop, alleviate the problem a bit, make things go smoother and not take years to accomplish. 
Instead this patch will do the opposite and make the coin generation be less then what we had before EoD hit WHILE making Clovers cost more coins. Wut. 

[Saddam.1065]

the price of mystic coins went up again for 2.3 gold just today  , kitten you anet u keep this game for yourself you ruin my dream of crafting legendries im sick and feed up with this greedy company not the most greedy company  to be honest but still greedy .

can you please leave everything on the same , i was really happy with Mystic coins price around 1.7 gold ? please

Edited February 12, 2022 by Saddam.1065

[YamiNoNeko.8739]

I  am not the one to make post on forums but seriously, what is ArenaNet thinking with some of this changes.

We're basically getting force to play content that some of us don't even want to play to begin with and in my honest opinion that is a bad design.

 

"The removal of Mystic Coin drops from Challenge Mode bosses creates room for us to add a consistent and predictable source of Mystic Coins to strikes."

You could already do without the removal but now you're saying "we're forcing everyone to play strikes!" You could have left it and just add it to strikes instead of killing the little % of players who do CMs.

"We want to spread the love to other types of content, but that means that no single source should award such high amounts of legendary resources at the same time. "
How is only strikes having MCs spreading the love...? You're contradicting yourself ANET with basically putting the MCs in one single game mode.
It's being years since they  added a new fractal as well as a new raid wing and by the looks of it, ANET is not even adding a new raid wing or new fractals when EoD comes.
Thank you for killing the little % of players who enjoyed doing CMs.

Could  have simple reworked the system by letting  Fractals, Raids, and Strikes reward MCs or being able to be bought with the currency of that game mode instead of simple taking them out from one game mode and putting them on another because you want the player base to do strikes..

 

If I myself want to do 10 man content, I rather raid then do strikes.

A lot of people hate this change because there was a better way to do it then simply just completely gutting one game mode to put them on another game mode.
That's all I have to say and also after the post went live, MCs sky rocketed to 2g+... Great...

 

Edited February 12, 2022 by YamiNoNeko.8739

[phokus.8934]

Fractals are the all around best content for liquid and non-liquid gold.

Strikes are absolutely garbage because their rewards are pretty bad.  They should've kept MCs in fractal CMs because they are challenging.

You may see an uptick in strikes participation but it won't help the price of MCs.  They're going to be more expensive so kudos to anyone who held them.

[evlover.6270]

7 hours ago, Khisanth.2948 said:

That sounds like you didn't read the article because the reason is directly stated.

 

The coins weren't removed because the rewards are inconsistent. The coins were removed because the devs felt that the fractals were too efficient for crafting a legendary.

 

 

Quoting the article: "Although this chance is random and unreliable, it adds up as many players take on Challenge Mode fractals consistently, making fractals the most efficient one-stop source for obtaining the gold, Mystic Coins, and Mystic Clovers you need for legendary progression. We want to spread the love to other types of content, but that means that no single source should award such high amounts of legendary resources at the same time." + "The removal of Mystic Coin drops from Challenge Mode bosses creates room for us to add a consistent and predictable source of Mystic Coins to strikes."

Now who didn't read the article, nor my post? They literally stated it's random, unreliable, too efficient and want to spread it to other game modes. Deleting them from fractals is not spreading the love, it's loving someone else while throwing away your old love. Now it's random but in the end people get a lot because they consistently farm them, if you'd only keep the 0-3 chance at endbosses (or make it 1-3 so you'd at least get one) and you delete them from the first 2 bosses, it lowers the total output just like they want. If you spread it to all 3 PvE game modes instead of just fractals, people would play all of those gamemodes, which would truly be spreading the love. What will happen with the current changes is that people will stop doing cms, they'll just do the t4's, they'll do strikes for the 10 mystic coins and buy the 5 strike clovers with them, and raids will just stay the same because people already used up their mystic coins on the strike clovers or on the fractal clovers if they have spare mystic coins somehow or bought some on the tp, so no enticement to raids at all. Now it's just a push from cms towards strikes instead of giving all 3 of them a small output of mystic coins and making all 3 of them worth playing to obtain them. They've spread out the vendors for clovers but if you don't have a way to obtain mystic coins to use those vendors, they're worthless.

Edited February 12, 2022 by evlover.6270