Banner Rework Confirmed!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/guild-wars-2-end-of-dragons-strike-missions-balance-and-rewards/

 

"From Who Can to Who Can’t?

In Guild Wars 2: End of Dragons, only warrior and ranger lack the ability to fill those essential boon support roles.

Since banners and spirits are unique effects, warrior and ranger break from the simple system of shared boons and conditions that allows professions to share common roles. While this creates certain unique group roles like the banner warrior, it also strongly limits play.

Warrior players have been telling us for years that they’d like to be something other than a banner warrior in groups! We agree, and we’re going to rework banners and spirits to fit our shared boon system and open new options for warrior and ranger players. Both professions will have access to new boon support roles using revamped banners, spirits, and related traits.

Unfortunately, due to time constraints and work on new elite specializations, we were unable to make these changes for the Guild Wars 2: End of Dragons launch, and we’re planning to make them part of a larger profession update and balance patch coming this summer. Until then, banners and spirits will remain as they are and continue to have a 10-target cap."

BANNER REWORK!!!!!!!!!!!!!! WHHOOOAAAA YEAH!

Apparently boon based (cool!), but not until this summer (boo).

Also balance patch will be in the summer (boo, but hey take your time to get it right!).
 

Other notable items from the link:

• Ritualist’s equipment provides a large increase to condition damage and vitality, and a small increase to concentration and expertise.
• Dragon’s equipment provides a large increase to power and ferocity, and a small increase to precision and vitality.

So, anyone with 100% crit rate from traits is going to do some Big D damage (not you Bladesworn) after EoD launch. Ritualist stats seem tailor made for the Harbinger too, but I can see Berserker rocking those stats nicely in WvW.

 

 

[Red Haired Savage.5430]

That'll be nice, I'm guessing it'll be 1 of 3 different possibilities?

1. Banners spam boons when placed and we'll have to keep hitting the activate button to keep boons going, directly interacting with the banner will pick it up early.
2. We'll get the older style we throw a banner down and then have to pick it up to spam the boons with unique skills while holding each banner.
3. We equip a banner on our back (only 1 banner at a time) and it pulses boons through it's duration.

I kinda wonder what will happen with the elite banner will it still be a finishing/resurrecting skill too?  Will banner of tactics be moved to our healing slot and have unique/extra ally healing abilities? Be kinda neat to have a shout warrior healing and using tactics banner to also heal allies and then switch banners to another banner to provide other boons.

 

Sad thing is rangers already had this a little bit with some of their spirits.

[Zekent.3652]

For summer, and pretty sure they're just gonna make it 5 targets and some easy/lazy way to deal with it, still being meme skills for pvp and wvw.

I hope i'm wrong.

[Infusion.7149]

Be careful what you wish for you might get it.

Hopefully the bonuses are merged with spotter/pinpoint precision into a blanket +100 stat bonus instead of having so may different bonuses. Same thing goes for banner of tactics and empower allies.

Edited February 12, 2022 by Infusion.7149

[Red Haired Savage.5430]

1 minute ago, Zizekent.2398 said:

For summer, and pretty sure they're just gonna make it 5 targets and some easy/lazy way to deal with it, still being meme skills for pvp and wvw.

I hope i'm wrong.

Yes it'll be 5 target, sounds like they're making all support skills to be 5 targets.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

I have no idea what they have planned. Personally I'd like the older style but where only one gets summoned at a time and can pump out lots of themed boons and condis, and no banner gets placed.

Summon banner, get banner in hand, play keyboard.

Get Strength to pump out quickness and might along with  burning and vulnerability. Good strong CC to boot.
Precision can pump out fury and alacrity, pump out bleeds, weakness, and torment.
Defense can pump out prot, reso, and resistance, and a 5 party stunbreak + stability stacks. Throw in a spammable barrier as well.
Tactics could pump regeneration and vigor along with big heals and big condi cleanses along with some dazes and blinds.
Battle Standard could be lots of damage along with a rez/finish on one skill that banishes the banner.

I'm dreaming big I know, but I want the skill bars to come back and be strong for once. They really need to not be static or they won't see use in WvW or PvP, and I can't see how they could be any different than Shouts if they were just aoe boon buttons on the utility bar.

Warriors, throw your ideas here and let the Devs know the support you actually want out of banners other than babysitting a pair of sticks in the mud.

[Kronos.2560]

The risk here is while yes banners go away and get reworked and now you are no longer a bannerslave. It might get reworked to something useless and now you can't even be a bannerslave and thus are unwanted until the next patch 6 months+ later. Crossing fingers the rework is something awesome and not just a last minute flip the banners to provide swiftness and 1 might every 5 seconds or something useless like that. 

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

9 minutes ago, Kronos.2560 said:

The risk here is while yes banners go away and get reworked and now you are no longer a bannerslave. It might get reworked to something useless and now you can't even be a bannerslave and thus are unwanted until the next patch 6 months+ later. Crossing fingers the rework is something awesome and not just a last minute flip the banners to provide swiftness and 1 might every 5 seconds or something useless like that. 

Okay, so I'm going to need you to take that negativity, ball it up, and toss it into the trash.

If it's like the old banners where you get 5 new skills, but are different for each banner this time, and have lots of useful effects, then there will certainly be a place in content. Especially, if in the summer balance they actually nerf things like FB and Scourge.

That and when that happens the support skills will all be 5 man. In their news release they want the player to matter, not the profession. Which means that they are going to give out aoe stability, quickness, alacrity, and barrier to other professions. To make that work they'd have to nerf FB and scourge while buffing others.

[Red Haired Savage.5430]

24 minutes ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

I have no idea what they have planned. Personally I'd like the older style but where only one gets summoned at a time and can pump out lots of themed boons and condis, and no banner gets placed.

Summon banner, get banner in hand, play keyboard.

Get Strength to pump out quickness and might along with  burning and vulnerability. Good strong CC to boot.
Precision can pump out fury and alacrity, pump out bleeds, weakness, and torment.
Defense can pump out prot, reso, and resistance, and a 5 party stunbreak + stability stacks. Throw in a spammable barrier as well.
Tactics could pump regeneration and vigor along with big heals and big condi cleanses along with some dazes and blinds.
Battle Standard could be lots of damage along with a rez/finish on one skill that banishes the banner.

I'm dreaming big I know, but I want the skill bars to come back and be strong for once. They really need to not be static or they won't see use in WvW or PvP, and I can't see how they could be any different than Shouts if they were just aoe boon buttons on the utility bar.

Warriors, throw your ideas here and let the Devs know the support you actually want out of banners other than babysitting a pair of sticks in the mud.

You're forgetting resolution that we struggle to get. Don't let Anet forget it or we wont get it.  Although I kinda wonder if that's why we didn't get much access to it because we'll get decent access to it with banner rework? I was also kinda thinking it might be interesting if the banners somehow interact with adrenaline? Like now we hit harder from spending stacks of adrenaline so maybe the boons do more for not spending adrenaline, sort of a flip on the current spend the adrenaline as fast as you get it? Damage spends adrenaline and support stores it?  Just some thoughts that could be interesting.  Although that would make Core the best boon support for warrior over other elite specs, which I'm fine with.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

16 minutes ago, Red Haired Savage.5430 said:

You're forgetting resolution that we struggle to get. Don't let Anet forget it or we wont get it.  Although I kinda wonder if that's why we didn't get much access to it because we'll get decent access to it with banner rework? I was also kinda thinking it might be interesting if the banners somehow interact with adrenaline? Like now we hit harder from spending stacks of adrenaline so maybe the boons do more for not spending adrenaline, sort of a flip on the current spend the adrenaline as fast as you get it? Damage spends adrenaline and support stores it?  Just some thoughts that could be interesting.  Although that would make Core the best boon support for warrior over other elite specs, which I'm fine with.

Dude, I didn't forget, I just abbreviated it to reso.

[Red Haired Savage.5430]

2 minutes ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

Dude, I didn't forget, I just abbreviated it to reso.

I musta missed it sorry.

[oscuro.9720]

Woooo! Perhaps viable competitive mode banners?!?! 

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

13 minutes ago, oscuro.9720 said:

Woooo! Perhaps viable competitive mode banners?!?! 

Man I hope so. Something to do other than bubble botting in zergs.

[Grand Marshal.4098]

ANET, MAKE BANNERS LIKE FACETS AND GIVE DEFENSE BANNER A STUNBREAK ACTIVE!

 

It's about time...

 

Need the stats to remain as a non-boon option, but give boons to the second active of the banners aka Might (Strength), Fury (Precision), Reso, Stab (Defense), Regen, Prot (Tactics), Make the pulsing boons the Battle Standard's first active and it's second active the rez/stomp/dmg. 

 

We need a Stunbreak Banner to be creative. Give us a stunbreak banner and allow for true creativity!!!!! 

 

OBVIOUSLY MOBILE WITH NO HITPOINTS LIKE SPIRITS IN COMPETETIVE MODES

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

1 hour ago, Grand Marshal.4098 said:

ANET, MAKE BANNERS LIKE FACETS AND GIVE DEFENSE BANNER A STUNBREAK ACTIVE!

 

It's about time...

 

Need the stats to remain as a non-boon option, but give boons to the second active of the banners aka Might (Strength), Fury (Precision), Reso, Stab (Defense), Regen, Prot (Tactics), Make the pulsing boons the Battle Standard's first active and it's second active the rez/stomp/dmg. 

 

We need a Stunbreak Banner to be creative. Give us a stunbreak banner and allow for true creativity!!!!! 

 

OBVIOUSLY MOBILE WITH NO HITPOINTS LIKE SPIRITS IN COMPETETIVE MODES

I think stunbreak on summon for Defense  would work if they go back to  it being a bundle.

But it needs to be active, no more of this drop banners (2s dead time plus aftercasts) then pick them back up to resummon again BS (another 4s of dead time).

They need to be active, they need to be mobile, and they need to be more than just stat sticks. Honestly I'd rather get rid of the stats and be very boon centric, but with powerful active effects.

There is so much opportunity here for Anet to do some unique and amazing support work for core warrior, that leaving them as is but with pulsing boons would be a lost opportunity.

[felix.2386]

they are gonna make banner give might/regen/fury etc and have almost the same boon as battle banner lol

i can almost see it, too late and too lazy..

 

also without banner, warrior will be just another low tier braindead dps with 0 team support when spec for dps build unlike other classes aka unwanted in the current state

Edited February 12, 2022 by felix.2386

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

1 minute ago, felix.2386 said:

they are gonna make banner give might/regen/fury etc and have almost the same boon as battle banner lol

i can almost see it, too late and too lazy..

 

also without banner, warrior will be just another low tier braindead dps with 0 team support aka unwanted in the current state

felix, take that negativity and channel it instead to some constructive suggestions for the devs.

 

Also, Devs, just adding boons to the current banners is a no no. Don't do that. Go big or go home.

[DKRathalos.9625]

@Lan Deathrider.5910This is like uh.... I dunno how to feel about this. At one side I really happy they finally wants to rework banner and there is a hint of like class rework or something at summer but... on the other side I doubt they can do a good job.

They literally just butchered Fractal CM reward because they think reward need to be spread.

[Grand Marshal.4098]

1 minute ago, DKRathalos.9625 said:

@Lan Deathrider.5910This is like uh.... I dunno how to feel about this. At one side I really happy they finally wants to rework banner and there is a hint of like class rework or something at summer but... on the other side I doubt they can do a good job.

They literally just butchered Fractal CM reward because they think reward need to be spread.

I don't have high hopes either, but if they read this and not posts from 5 year ago, might as well be vocal asf. I think in my idea, banners will maintain the unique stat niche, providing a means of boosting without boons that can get corrupted and stripped, cause we got too much of that anywa, so divide it into a bit of stats and a bit of boons, give a stunbreak banner to not have us bite our fingers with a 75 sec CD Shake it Off as our only stunbreak that limits Banner play annnd boom, useful. 

 

If anet wants to maintain the light fields on us, sure, using/removing banner grants swiftness on us, and using banner maintains the light field allowing for some good cleansing and potential aura synergy.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

1 minute ago, DKRathalos.9625 said:

@Lan Deathrider.5910This is like uh.... I dunno how to feel about this. At one side I really happy they finally wants to rework banner and there is a hint of like class rework or something at summer but... on the other side I doubt they can do a good job.

They literally just butchered Fractal CM reward because they think reward need to be spread.

DKR, shhh, calm down. Tell the devs the exact things not to do. Then give some positive feedback on what good banner support looks like to you.

They realize that the current banner meta is not fun, we don't like it, and its aweful. They want to go back to  basics on every class being able to fill any roll. Good. That means fewer FB and scourges and room for Warrior to get awesome support abilities.

So be constructive on what you see that as being in regards to banners. This is your chance to give voice to what you DON'T want to see and what you DO want to see.

For me, its the effects being mobile with the warrior. Baseline.
It is a 5 man stunbreak on Defense plus stability.
It is a 5 man Burst heal plus cleanses on Tactics with it moves to the healing slot.
It is 5 man quickness and might, with possible burning and CC on Strength.
It is 5 man fury, alacrity along with aoe bleeds and torment on Disciplin.
It is mass boons and condi +revive on Battle Standard.

I'd like them to go back to bundles, with cool AF abilities. FB tomes could do it, so can banners. But absent that I think the above should be done. Trait could double all the effects, or it could make all banners give 10 might. The sky is the limit. So knock yourself out and  be creative.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

5 minutes ago, Grand Marshal.4098 said:

I don't have high hopes either, but if they read this and not posts from 5 year ago, might as well be vocal asf. I think in my idea, banners will maintain the unique stat niche, providing a means of boosting without boons that can get corrupted and stripped, cause we got too much of that anywa, so divide it into a bit of stats and a bit of boons, give a stunbreak banner to not have us bite our fingers with a 75 sec CD Shake it Off as our only stunbreak that limits Banner play annnd boom, useful. 

 

If anet wants to maintain the light fields on us, sure, using/removing banner grants swiftness on us, and using banner maintains the light field allowing for some good cleansing and potential aura synergy.

GM, go bigger. Stop being timid. Lan is in a 0 fcks to give mode at the moment and he is taking the rest of you along for the ride.

[felix.2386]

29 minutes ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

felix, take that negativity and channel it instead to some constructive suggestions for the devs.

 

Also, Devs, just adding boons to the current banners is a no no. Don't do that. Go big or go home.

Lan Deathrider, it's not negativity tho, it is basically my knowledge of the team after i've dealt with them as a veteran since 2013.

and this is basically what they did 85% of the times to warrior for 9 years, lazy changes after lazy changes.(lazy might not be the perfect word, most likely due to their pointless "design philosophy" of warrior, but end result really give the lazy vibe)

 

and i dont use my time to do other people's job and i don't like sucking other people's thumb

 

also people like me and the other guys above mentioning it actually may cause the dev to rethink their lazy idea...

 

what makes them decide to change banner now anyway, last desperate attempt at keeping old players back with empty promises and buy EoD.

after EoD release, its just going back to the old anet that leaves warrior in the dust like they always did during pre expansion and after. 

i would actually be surprised if they actually did something different, tho i have incredibly low expectation.

Edited February 12, 2022 by felix.2386

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

1 minute ago, felix.2386 said:

Lan Deathrider, it's not negativity tho, it is basically my knowledge of the team after i've dealt with them as a veteran since 2013.

and this is basically what they did 85% of the times to warrior for 9 years, lazy changes after lazy changes.

 

and i dont use my time to do other people's job and i don't like sucking other people's thumb

 

also people like me and the other guys above mentioning it actually may cause the dev to rethink their lazy idea...

 

what makes them decide to change banner now anyway, last desperate attempt at keeping old players back with empty promises and buy EoD.

after EoD release, its just going back to the old anet that leaves warrior in the dust like they always did during pre expansion and after. 

i would actually be surprised if they actually did something different, tho i have incredibly low expectation.

Dude.  I've been around since the beginning as well, so I feel you. They've trashed on warrior pretty steadily. That does not mean that it isn't Warrior's time to get dank asf reworks like the Explosives rework on Engi.

Take the doom and gloom, shelve it in the dark corner of the recesses of your mind, and come back with some positive attitude on what a GREAT banner rework looks like to you.

[oscuro.9720]

What I would like to see for banners is something similar to Glint facets. However, without the same energy mechanic of Revenant, there would be some key differences. I know this has been discussed on here before, but I’ll retype out the idea, just incase new people are reading;

The general idea would be to activate the banner, and a banner is raised on the warrior, giving the pulsing support (boobs, heals, barrier, whatever) around the warrior. Every banner should have a unique field attached to it.

The banner effect would be in place for 60 seconds with a cool down of 20 seconds (matches the current structure of banners). The skill would then become some sort of flip skill (example; group stun break+stability). Activating the flip skill would cancel the banner effect, and put the banner on a 20 second cool down. 

This would preserve the banner as a 20s cool down skill with an active effect of possibly 60s. 
That’s just how I’ve always envisioned banners being functionally effective, but I don’t play pve which is the main place banners are impacted, so take my ideas with a grain of salt.

Now, some specific ideas;

Banner of Tactics:

Passive: Grant regeneration and resistance around the warrior. This banner creates a water field. 
Active: Heal allies around you  (5k?) and cleanse conditions (3?).

Banner of strength: 

Passive: Pulse might and swiftness. This banner creates a fire field.
Active: Create a conflagration that burns and damage enemies in the area for 5sz

Banner of Discipline:

Passive: Pulse Fury and Vigor. This banner creates a Lightning Field. 
Active: Unleash a storm of lightning, granting super speed and quickness to allies around you. 
Banner of Defense: 

Passive: Pulse Protection and Resolution around the warrior. This banner creates a Light Field. 

Active: Destroy the earth around you, immobilizing enemies and granting Magnetic Aura to allies.

Battle Standard:

Passive: Pulse Stability around the warrior. This banner creates an ethereal field. 
Active: desolate the surrounding area with the force of a thousand suns, granting barrier to allies and damaging foes. Downed individuals are either revived (allies), or finished (enemies). 
 

These are probably ridiculously OP, I didn’t really consider balance at all.

Edited March 24, 2022 by oscuro.9720

[anbujackson.9564]

Well what are the possibilities? The stat increases will go away. 

- You place them and instead of pulsing stats they pulse boons. Ok sure. The general gameplay will be the same.

- You get the old system back where you pick them up each and cast their skills and put them down again. The strong boons are on the active skills while the passive apply will be some regular boons. 

- A moving banner on your back. As much as I like the idea, its the one that might be the worst to design.

Also keep in mind that you mostly will be forced to invest quite a bit in boon duration. Casting active skills and placing banners down again will be quite a dps loss, too (repeat that once or twice for each banner and you basically do nothing else). The appeal of bs was that you never had to invest anything. Those balance changes/nerfs to other specs better be impressive or your hybrid support wont be able to compete. Personally I dont see it. But you never know what will happen.