Todays nerfs prove that Anet DESPISES Solo Players

[Kuronca.4138]

I know that GW2 its an MMO but I don't want to play with people
The good think that I love about GW2 is that you choose when do you want to play with people, because if you are skilled you can solo things.
Now, you are loosing points, seems that you want to go into WoW trinity thing with dps and healers.
I mostly only do open world, and from time to time I was helping people to get their hero points, now my hero is useless
Playing the piano while playing its not fun, making things harder with no sense is not fun for many of us, we just want to relax, an explore it doesn't hurt anyone.

 

And in case that anyone from Anet will give an explanation saying that people abuse it for fractals/raid or another content, they are lying, nobody would ever accept an open world build , they will kick you asap, maybe training raids will allow you.

[Heretic.6928]

I literally come from work just to have some solo content in open world. I don't really do other content as much due to anxiety and I normally can't hit the DPS that groups ask for because, u know, my wrists are not as good as they were when I was below 25 years old.

 

I just want to relax in open world. Maybe help other ppl a bit. Please do not keep these nerfs. They are not really harming anyone else's fun or the game in general.  

[BikerBeagle.3915]

You know what I find funny (ho ho, not ha ha) is so many people mad at these nerfs claiming they can no longer do hard solo OW content ...while pretentiously claiming that the reason they could do hard solo OW content before was due to "skill".

 

I mean, you either have it, or you don't ...if you don't then that's not the content you should be doing. Being carried by overpowered gear, class skills and traits does not make you 'skilled'.

 

To be clear, this is not a "gitgud" message, it's a "know your limitations" message. If you were previously able to walk yourself into a group of veteran -level enemies, solo world bosses, or do other 'group' content with no fear of dying, how can you not see that as a problem?

[maxwelgm.4315]

These nerfs coincide to Anet demonstrating players on the story the importance of A) CC and B) Combo fields. Open PvE content is still very soloable if you adapt your build and especially your equipment (take things that have + vitality to get crucial `extra mistakes` you can make before hitting the ground). If you're a Rev for instance the CC skills are VERY important to solo - you should be using Shiro's elite to manage gang mobs and to quickly deplete defiance bars in champions (preferably right before one of their big hits). Sustain also should not come only from heals-on-hit as that'd mean you could get free heals in aggressive status combinations - your heal skill and especially regeneration+vigor+protection suddenly have become crucial boons that you should find out in your traitlines and invest into them, even if losing damage potential for it.

 

Anet basically enforced "tradeoffs" so that their vision of no holy trinity can be further realized. Expect to start seeing less "DPS zerker scholar runes" builds in Open PvE and sometimes even in instanced content like strikes, and more "DPS that also provides X boon to allies and self" like currently exists in a limited form as quickbrand and quickscrapper.

[Cynder.2509]

What exactly is this supposed nerf? I play solo 99% of my time and I haven't noticed any change at all. And I'm using raid meta builds instead of petty casual offmeta. I'm still able to solo all kinds of stuff. Guess people don't know what dodge and combos are. This game already is too easy and now when it becomes a little bit changed people act like it's Dark Souls. Pathetic. 
Read your skills, traits and stats properly and know the simple mecahnics and you have no problem. 

[Labjax.2465]

24 minutes ago, BikerBeagle.3915 said:

You know what I find funny (ho ho, not ha ha) is so many people mad at these nerfs claiming they can no longer do hard solo OW content ...while pretentiously claiming that the reason they could do hard solo OW content before was due to "skill".

 

I mean, you either have it, or you don't ...if you don't then that's not the content you should be doing. Being carried by overpowered gear, class skills and traits does not make you 'skilled'.

 

To be clear, this is not a "gitgud" message, it's a "know your limitations" message. If you were previously able to walk yourself into a group of veteran -level enemies, solo world bosses, or do other 'group' content with no fear of dying, how can you not see that as a problem?

It's not a contradiction. Skill isn't magic. The capabilities you have to work with can only take you so far. The exception is prob some <1% of players or whatever who are going to be so skilled at a game they can do far more than the average skilled player, so they're usually not going to be as impacted by nerfs. These are also going to be the types more likely to be deep into build craft and mix-maxing, so it's not as big a deal for them to adapt.

But yeah, I'm tired atm and I don't feel I'm explaining this well, but the gist is if you are used to doing content a certain way that for you requires some skill and your approach gets nerfed, maybe you aren't skilled enough that it's easy to adjust. Doesn't mean you aren't skilled at utilizing your class at all in the moment, but you may not be skilled in build craft and minutiae of mechanics. There's a reason build guides are so popular.

Also, your "no fear of dying" part, idk where that's coming from. If people are soloing content made for groups, unless it's in a lowbie zone, odds are there is definitely a risk of dying and it's just that some builds make it easier to correct tactical mistakes in the moment.

Edit: I mean, try standing in bad on any class and see no how long "no fear of dying" lasts. Unless you are full tank or something.

Edited March 2, 2022 by Labjax.2465

[Labjax.2465]

14 minutes ago, Cynder.2509 said:

What exactly is this supposed nerf? I play solo 99% of my time and I haven't noticed any change at all. And I'm using raid meta builds instead of petty casual offmeta. I'm still able to solo all kinds of stuff. Guess people don't know what dodge and combos are. This game already is too easy and now when it becomes a little bit changed people act like it's Dark Souls. Pathetic. 
Read your skills, traits and stats properly and know the simple mecahnics and you have no problem. 

10 years of playing a game that is "too easy." I think you just want a place you can boast. 😉

[Rekhaa.2748]

That's a curious decision, nerf for an extension.

Now i don't want to keep playing, thanks i don't already get EoD and i got elden ring and an eyes on lost ark

[Tiberius.3802]

1 hour ago, BikerBeagle.3915 said:

You know what I find funny (ho ho, not ha ha) is so many people mad at these nerfs claiming they can no longer do hard solo OW content ...while pretentiously claiming that the reason they could do hard solo OW content before was due to "skill".

 

I mean, you either have it, or you don't ...if you don't then that's not the content you should be doing. Being carried by overpowered gear, class skills and traits does not make you 'skilled'.

 

To be clear, this is not a "gitgud" message, it's a "know your limitations" message. If you were previously able to walk yourself into a group of veteran -level enemies, solo world bosses, or do other 'group' content with no fear of dying, how can you not see that as a problem?

Huh? The majority of people in here refer to themselves as casuals and are self-aware enough to admit that they don't possess a ton of skill.

[fourhim.3584]

This thread and others like it make me realize something.  We may really need "hard" and "easy" servers.  I don't know how that would work, or how you'd keep the highly skilled players from doing the easiest content all the time - probably with different loot tables.  But its clear that there is a minority of players that just want to play with other skilled players, and they SHOULD receive greater rewards for doing so, and then a less vocal majority of players like myself that just want to experience the game and don't care that much about loot.  

 

Consider for a moment myself and the others I have brought to this game, which my son and I have been playing for 8 years now.  Myself, a very casual player, bad at dodging and all that, but I do research online for "best builds" and try to make as close to those as I can get, though only using trading post and laurel vendors.  I've done two dungeons, maybe 5 fractals - hated them every time.  I've soloed maybe 2 champions in 8 years, and this was only recently with my Trailblazer's/Tormenting Rune Condi Renegade (who is now dying).  My son is the best player of us, coming from a FPS background.  His best character was his self-healing Assassin's Daredevil build, who is now dying.  Neither of us are having fun anymore.  OK, so we're mid-casual players.

 

Then I invited friends at church to play this game - friend who have never played an MMO in their entire life.  And finally I just recently got my wife to play - who barely does video games at all.  These are BRAND new players who are given a level 80 boost, Celestial Stats with default gear, and told "Ready? Set? Go!" by the game, into "ENDGAME" content!  I'm on Discord with them, asking them what their "build" looks like, and what "traits" they chose, and they say "Huh?"  They didn't even know they had other weapon options, OR even other skills to choose from.  (Thanks, level 80 boost!)  W,A,S,D is a foreign concept, as is Space to jump, double-tap dodge, etc.  They don't know how to manage inventory, their bank, how to put new gear on, DEFINITELY not rune sets and weapon sigils - all this stuff we take for granted now.  THESE are some of the players the game is encouraging to try out Maguuma (yeah right), Path of Fire (the best), and EOD now (also hard).

 

Maybe we can blame it on the awesome advertising for the new content and the level 80 boosts.  I don't know.  But I do know that these are the players who almost never comment in forums - they might not even know these forums exist, and yet they make up a large percentage of players.  (In most games, those who comment on forums are skewed toward better players.)

 

So for those of you who say things like "the PVE nerfs were needed", and "just learn X, Y, Z", please think of whom you are alienating.  It just comes across as so condescending, and I know you don't mean for it to be.  The GW2 community is one of the most helpful and kind communities out there, which is why I have stuck around.  Just know that there are THOUSANDS of us out there that just want to experience the story and explore this beautiful world they have made.  We care nothing about Crafting (one of my biggest complaints with build recommendations are that they assume we are all crafting), Forging legendaries, Fractals, Dungeons, Strike Missions, Raids, PVP, WVW.  Most of them are not joining guilds either, because they are terrified of letting down other players who have no patience for them.  You top tier players may not like it - but that's your GW2 player "base".  You are the elite.  We just want to explore and not die (much).  Not asking to be immortal, just survivable.

 

But for us to get these new specializations, we FIRST have to get all those hero points, many of which are guarded by tough Elite mobs in EOD (though certainly better than POF and HOT in this regard), the maps are empty so there's no one to help.  So when PVE nerfs for players like myself and my son happen, I hope you can see why our enjoyment for the new expansion has been quashed by the simultaneous difficulty spike when using our favorite characters.  Even fishing, which is what I was most looking forward to, I can't even peacefully watch myself fish, because I have to stressfully manage this fish-catching bar instead.  And so much for fishing in the rest of Tyria, which is nigh impossible.  It's just a big let down on so many levels, which is so sad for a game that had such promise...

Edited March 2, 2022 by fourhim.3584

[AliamRationem.5172]

1 hour ago, Rekhaa.2748 said:

That's a curious decision, nerf for an extension.

Now i don't want to keep playing, thanks i don't already get EoD and i got elden ring and an eyes on lost ark

It's a little hard to believe that someone complaining about losing some faceroll sustain is going to go play Elden Ring of all things.  But okay.  Good luck with the combat over there.

[AliamRationem.5172]

1 minute ago, fourhim.3584 said:

This thread and others like it make me realize something.  We may really need "hard" and "easy" servers.  I don't know how that would work, or how you'd keep the highly skilled players from doing the easiest content all the time - probably with different loot tables.  But its clear that there is a minority of players that just want to play with other skilled players, and they SHOULD receive greater rewards for doing so, and then a less vocal majority of players like myself that just want to experience the game and don't care that much about loot.  

 

Consider for a moment myself and the others I have brought to this game, which my son and I have been playing for 8 years now.  Myself, a very casual player, bad at dodging and all that, but I do research online for "best builds" and try to make as close to those as I can get, though only using trading post and laurel vendors.  I've done two dungeons, maybe 5 fractals - hated them every time.  I've soloed maybe 2 champions in 8 years, and this was only recently with my Trailblazer's/Tormenting Rune Condi Renegade (who is now dying).  My son is the best player of us, coming from a FPS background.  His best character was his self-healing Assassin's Daredevil build, who is now dying.  Neither of us are having fun anymore.  OK, so we're mid-casual players.

 

Then I invited friends at church to play this game - friend who have never played an MMO in their entire life.  And finally I just recently got my wife to play - who barely does video games at all.  These are BRAND new players who are given a level 80 boost, Celestial Stats with default gear, and told "Ready? Set? Go!" by the game, into "ENDGAME" content!  I'm on Discord with them, asking them what their "build" looks like, and what "traits" they chose, and they say "Huh?"  They didn't even know they had other weapon options, OR even other skills to choose from.  (Thanks, level 80 boost!)  W,A,S,D is a foreign concept, as is Space to jump, double-tap dodge, etc.  They don't know how to manage inventory, their bank, how to put new gear on - all this stuff we take for granted now.  THESE are some of the players the game is encouraging to try out Maguuma (yeah right), Path of Fire (the best), and EOD now (also hard).

 

Maybe we can blame it on the awesome advertising for the new content and the level 80 boosts.  I don't know.  But I do know that these are the players who almost never comment in forums - they might not even know these forums exist, and yet they make up a large percentage of players.  (In most games, those who comment on forums are skewed toward better players.)

 

So for those of you who say things like "te PVED nerfs were needed", and "just learn X, Y, Z", please think of whom you are alienating.  It just comes across as so condescending, and I know you don't mean for it to be.  The GW2 is one of the most helpful and kind communities out there, which is why I have stuck around.  Just know that there are THOUSANDS of us out there that just want to experience the story and explore this beautiful world they have made.  We care nothing about Crafting (one of my biggest complaints with build recommendations are that they assume we are all crafting), Forging legendaries, Fractals, Dungeons, Strike Missions, Raids, PVP, WVW.  Most of them are not joining guilds either, because they are terrified of letting down other players who have no patience for them.  You top tier players may not like it - but that's your GW2 player "base".  You are the elite.  We just want to explore and not die (much).  Not asking to be immortal, just survivable.

 

But for us to get these new specializations, we FIRST have to get all those hero points, many of which are guarded by tough Elite mobs in EOD (though certainly better than POF and HOT in this regard), the maps are empty so there's no one to help.  So when PVE nerfs for players like myself and my son happen, I hope you can see why our enjoyment for the new expansion has been quashed by the simultaneous difficulty spike when using our favorite characters.  Even fishing, which is what I was most looking forward to, I can't even peacefully watch myself fish, because I have to stressfully manage this fish-catching bar instead.  And so much for fishing in the rest of Tyria, which is nigh impossible.  It's just a big let down on so many levels, which is so sad for a game that had such promise...

Had it occurred to you that the "quality" of responses is reflective of the quality of the complaints?  I refer you to the thread title.  What sort of responses do you expect to come from that exactly?

I'm on the side of "What's the big deal here?"  I'm not telling anyone to "git gud".  In fact, I'm one of the people who takes the time to design and share some of the low-impact builds that were impacted by these changes.  I understand and sympathize with the plight of players who just want to enjoy the game and have a hard time doing so when things are too difficult. 

That doesn't mean, however, that I don't also understand that certain things like torment runes were just plain broken and never should have existed in the first place or that classes like renegade and scourge being so effective and so faceroll were too much of a good thing.

Of course, anything short of total agreement means I "DESPISE" solo players and want to "gatekeep" open world play to force everyone into groups.  Also, I hate children and I go around kicking puppies and kittens.

[Gibson.4036]

4 minutes ago, AliamRationem.5172 said:

Had it occurred to you that the "quality" of responses is reflective of the quality of the complaints?  I refer you to the thread title.  What sort of responses do you expect to come from that exactly?

.....

Of course, anything short of total agreement means I "DESPISE" solo players and want to "gatekeep" open world play to force everyone into groups.  Also, I hate children and I go around kicking puppies and kittens.

I totally understand your response here. But please also recognize that among the kneejerk thread title and people saying "I quit I'm off to play X" there are people giving moderate, nuanced criticisms. Things like "the nerfs could have been done in smaller steps" and "the nerfs could have been done with lead time before or after launch" are being shared, not just "OMG this SUUUUUCKS".

It's a sad truth whenever people have criticisms that there will be those who just rant loudly and drown out the reasonable criticism.

It's equaly true of both sides. There is a mix of "this was really needed for the health of the game, and there will be some other options" and "just git gud you weak casuals who just want to auto-attack".

I do find it tricky to tune out the noise and try to focus on the people who are sharing thoughtfully and listening to what other people have to say.

[Brandon Uzumaki.1524]

Remember that we have another bigger balance patch for later, and the way things are going it's gonna be the february patch all over again lol.

[Pezz.4758]

22 minutes ago, AliamRationem.5172 said:

It's a little hard to believe that someone complaining about losing some faceroll sustain is going to go play Elden Ring of all things.  But okay.  Good luck with the combat over there.

 

This I think is a massive disconnect people are failing to recognize. 

I play GW2 as my stress relief chill out game. My raid days are a decade behind me, Im not asking for nerfs in that content.

I just want to do some chill quests and experience the open world when I log into GW2, and THAT is the issue.

 

GW2 has always had the reputation of being the friendly play as you want relaxed chill out MMO with cool PVP.

Not a neckbeard world first raider? Forget wow, check out Guild Wars! Heck, back when WoW was relevant they used to use

"maybe try guild wars 2" as an insult for people that couldnt hack the raids in WoW.

 

It is in no way because I am incapable of doing the content that I am vexed by the changes, its because the changes make GW2

a redundancy in my schedule. 

 

I already have hardcore games I play when Im pumped up to to focus up. Heck I have a massive bloodborne caryl rune tattoo as it is one of my favourite games of ALL time, and I have thousands of hours in it.

 

Bottom line is I just cant make sense of it. I can log into wow and face tank every quest elite or not on a warlock or hunter. It doesnt "kill the end game" or "take away from other peoples sense of accomplishment", dude they literally made the green fire quest a giant solo raid boss utilizing all the solo skills of the warlock.

 

FF is moving more and more towards supporting the MMO soloist, it doesnt take away from the raiders sense of self worth.

 

So why on earth is a game with a decade of catering to casual players suddenly 180 on design, and barring an answer to that, why is ANYONE surprised that people aren't happy about it?  

 

Its beyond me, but Ive been called pathetic, bad, lame, no lifer (the irony) for simply pointing out these inconstancies, and Im about done. 

 

If the grand vision is dead maps by day 2 and no relevance outside of the core community whatsoever, (check out Metacritic, there is NOTHING ) than congrats, I suppose you showed me.

[AliamRationem.5172]

8 minutes ago, Gibson.4036 said:

I totally understand your response here. But please also recognize that among the kneejerk thread title and people saying "I quit I'm off to play X" there are people giving moderate, nuanced criticisms. Things like "the nerfs could have been done in smaller steps" and "the nerfs could have been done with lead time before or after launch" are being shared, not just "OMG this SUUUUUCKS".

It's a sad truth whenever people have criticisms that there will be those who just rant loudly and drown out the reasonable criticism.

It's equaly true of both sides. There is a mix of "this was really needed for the health of the game, and there will be some other options" and "just git gud you weak casuals who just want to auto-attack".

I do find it tricky to tune out the noise and try to focus on the people who are sharing thoughtfully and listening to what other people have to say.

Sure.  But let's be honest, a big factor here is that nobody likes having their build nerfed.  There was never going to be a good time to reign in something as impactful as battle scars or torment runes, for instance.  Renegade has been the top solo play build for some time now because of how impactful these two non-interactive healing effects were.  That they also provided a significant damage increase to one of the top damage dealers in addition to essentially free healing in ridiculous quantities and ANet did nothing about it until now is, frankly, mind-boggling.

The only one I am scratching my head on is thief.  They're the outlier here because they actually had to give up significant damage in order to gain healing and they weren't exactly overperforming on sustain as a result of it.  I expect this has something to do with balancing specter into the mix and they'll probably do some adjustments later, but I feel this was clumsily handled.  Scourge and renegade absolutely were and I don't think anyone is going to argue that mirage's class mechanic needed any help in open world.

[Tatwi.3562]

I 100% agree.

 

It's so irritating how a couple of people who work for a company think that it's cool to force what they like upon the paying customers who may well enjoy something entirely different. Just because you like it doesn't mean the rest of us do.

 

I'll be hanging on to my money until you get that through your heads. 👍

[Gibson.4036]

7 minutes ago, AliamRationem.5172 said:

Sure.  But let's be honest, a big factor here is that nobody likes having their build nerfed.  There was never going to be a good time to reign in something as impactful as battle scars or torment runes, for instance.  Renegade has been the top solo play build for some time now because of how impactful these two non-interactive healing effects were.  That they also provided a significant damage increase to one of the top damage dealers in addition to essentially free healing in ridiculous quantities and ANet did nothing about it until now is, frankly, mind-boggling.

The only one I am scratching my head on is thief.  They're the outlier here because they actually had to give up significant damage in order to gain healing and they weren't exactly overperforming on sustain as a result of it.  I expect this has something to do with balancing specter into the mix and they'll probably do some adjustments later, but I feel this was clumsily handled.  Scourge and renegade absolutely were and I don't think anyone is going to argue that mirage's class mechanic needed any help in open world.

Yes, there always would have been shock. There never would have been a good time, but there could have been a better time. No one wants to spend launch week running hero points or farming gold to regear. They want to be in the new zones playing.

Agreed on thief, but I don't understand the sun and moon style nerf either. My spellbreaker is nowhere near the easy survivablity of condi renegade or even bounding daredevil.

I do wish they'd found a way to leave the sustain in, but somehow reduce damage if you choose it. Imagine the difference in reaction if lower-skilled players entered EoD finding they took longer to kill things than that they were suddenly getting downed more.

[Tails.9372]

1 hour ago, Gibson.4036 said:

It's equaly true of both sides. There is a mix of "this was really needed for the health of the game, and there will be some other options" and "just git gud you weak casuals who just want to auto-attack".

The issue is that both of them are not reasonable criticisms as even the ones who claim to make a case for how it actually hurts "the health of the game" ultimately just refrace their viewpoint of "I simply don't like that X exists". At least with other controversial issues (like stealth in PvP) the people advocating for change can explain and give actual examples of how the issue in question affects their gameplay in a tangible way.

But with this: did these effects put a strain on the "metagame"? No. Did they limit build divercity? No. Did they impact the gameplay of anyone other then the person who chooses to use them? Generally not.

Then why nerf it? To spite the players who use it? Because some players don't like the fact that other players play the game in a way they deem to be "improper" even though it doesn't actually affect how they themselves play the game? It really shouldn't be that hard to understand why so many people are unhappy with changes that negatively impact their gameplay experience for seemingly no other reason then "just cause" (remember: unlike with the changes to 10 target support skills the devs. didn't even bother to give their reasoning for these ones which is already rather telling).

Edited March 2, 2022 by Tails.9372

[Gibson.4036]

1 minute ago, Tails.9372 said:

The issue is that both of them are not reasonable criticisms as even the ones who claim to make a case for how it actually hurts "the health of the game" ultimately just refrace their viewpoint of "I simply don't like that X exists".

You have good points.

My post was really about tone. There are people spouting ridicule and anger and there are people calmly sharing their beliefs on both sides, whether one agrees or not.

[Scoobaniec.9561]

1 hour ago, AliamRationem.5172 said:

It's a little hard to believe that someone complaining about losing some faceroll sustain is going to go play Elden Ring of all things.  But okay.  Good luck with the combat over there.

Different combat system. if you good no need to even drink a hp pot once. Now in gw2 theres only so many dodges u can use while champ hits u for 5k per auto in full trailblazer. I honestly dare anyone to show me soloing that one golem champ at dragon fall ( https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Champion_Nature_Elemental ) in full melee bc even with torment runes (and all rev healing traits) i wasnt unable to brute force sustain throught him.

 

Whos up for the challenge here? Anyone with balls or just keyboard warriors?

 

 

Either way. let sum it up. Anet says they want build diversity and then proceed to delete sustain open world builds which are useless in any other contest. Including torment runes which are dps loss. Show me single build utilize them in raids or whatever. Theres none due to better damage options. So in the end we are abck to kill it before it kills u full dps mode. Great diversity, job well done

Edited March 2, 2022 by Scoobaniec.9561

[AliamRationem.5172]

3 minutes ago, Scoobaniec.9561 said:

Different combat system. if you good no need to even drink a hp pot once. Now in gw2 theres only so many dodges u can use while champ hits u for 5k per auto in full trailblazer. I honestly dare anyone to show me soloing that one golem champ at dragon fall ( https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Champion_Nature_Elemental ) in full melee bc even with torment runes (and all rev healing traits) i wasnt unable to brute force sustain throught him.

 

Whos up for the challenge here? Anyone with balls or just keyboard warriors?

 

 

Either way. let sum it up. Anet says they want build diversity and then proceed to delete sustain open world builds which are useless in any other contest. Including torment runes which are dps loss. Show me single build utilize them in raids or whatever. Theres none due to better damage options. So in the end we are abck to kill it before it kills u full dps mode. Great diversity, job well done

They didn't delete open world builds. Renegade and scourge are still top notch. Again this kind of ridiculous hyperbole is why the discussion is toxic. Stop playing the victim. These are perfectly reasonable nerfs.

[yann.1946]

14 minutes ago, Tails.9372 said:

The issue is that both of them are not reasonable criticisms as even the ones who claim to make a case for how it actually hurts "the health of the game" ultimately just refrace their viewpoint of "I simply don't like that X exists". At least with other controversial issues (like stealth in PvP) the people advocating for change can explain and give actual examples of how the issue in question affects their gameplay in a tangible way.

Some people have actually given reasons why they where a problem. 

14 minutes ago, Tails.9372 said:

But with this: did these effects put a strain on the "metagame"?

In some sense yes. 

14 minutes ago, Tails.9372 said:

No. Did they limit build divercity?

Absolutely, atleast if you mean in the sense that less builds come close to optimal. 

14 minutes ago, Tails.9372 said:

No. Did they impact the gameplay of anyone other then the person who chooses to use them? Generally not?

That argument can theoretically be used for all pve situations. It's a pretty bad argument though because it absolutely does. 

14 minutes ago, Tails.9372 said:

Then why nerf it? To spite the players who use it?

To make these builds more inline with the other OW builds? To motivate learning? To sell more expacs? Who knows

14 minutes ago, Tails.9372 said:

Because some players don't like the fact that other players play the game in a way they deem to be "improper" even though it doesn't actually affect how they themselves play the game?

 

14 minutes ago, Tails.9372 said:

It really shouldn't be that hard to understand why so many people are unhappy with changes that negatively impact their gameplay experience for seemingly no other reason then "just cause" (remember: unlike with the changes to 10 target support skills the devs. didn't even bother to give their reasoning for these ones which is already rather telling).

The timing was bad, absolutely. But you can not pretend nerfs to the sustain where not needed for the game balance. 

[Pezz.4758]

7 minutes ago, AliamRationem.5172 said:

They didn't delete open world builds. Renegade and scourge are still top notch. Again this kind of ridiculous hyperbole is why the discussion is toxic. Stop playing the victim. These are perfectly reasonable nerfs.

you keep conflating subjective taste with objective reality

 

perfectly reasonable TO WHOM? and which is it, were the nerfs unnoticeable, or justified?

 

if they are unnoticeable than they are unjustifiable as they have caused a rift for no apparent reason

if they are justifiable then they must be having an impact which people are struggling to find the reasons for

 

it cant be both  

[Pezz.4758]

5 minutes ago, yann.1946 said:

Some people have actually given reasons why they where a problem. 

In some sense yes. 

Absolutely, atleast if you mean in the sense that less builds come close to optimal. 

That argument can theoretically be used for all pve situations. It's a pretty bad argument though because it absolutely does. 

To make these builds more inline with the other OW builds? To motivate learning? To sell more expacs? Who knows

 

The timing was bad, absolutely. But you can not pretend nerfs to the sustain where not needed for the game balance. 

 

What does open world questing have to do with game balance? 

And if this is the new direction why was it implemented stealthily at the last possible second?

 

Anet could easily clear this up. Make a statement, clarifying their position on open world accessibility and difficulty and be done with it.

 

If I have to be in dungeon/raid form to help a farmer with his apples in X heart quest than just come out and say it. 

Edited March 2, 2022 by Pezz.4758