Upcoming Changes to "The Battle For The Jade Sea"

[Adah.8371]

And the worst of it is that we don't even receive any reward when we fail, compared to Maguma's meta events for example.

 

You spend 30 minutes waiting and negotiating, trying to prove to Commanders that you know the strats and they shouldn't kick you out ; then you fail on the boss at 10%, and nothing... 😅

Of course we mostly do that for the turtle but it's even more annoying to spend so much time for absolutely no reward. 🥹

[Ruisen.9471]

Just did this meta with an open world group.   Someone linked a nice youtube guide and most of us watched it before the fight.

The only issue to me is that the boss just has too much HP.   After watching the video we were able to do the mechanics most of the time, but the DPS check is just way too high.     They could loosen up the mechanics so that only 2/3 of the people need to do it to succeed though, that way the people who aren't able to do more then press 111111 can still do their thing.   Its not a raid, after all.

Also, the pre-event is pretty boring, repeatedly doing the same events over and over for an hour is not exciting.    Dragon's Stand escorts were much more well done.

Edited March 5, 2022 by Ruisen.9471

[Will.9785]

Killed it.  Literally took more than 20 attempts.  I have PTSD now.

Edited March 8, 2022 by Will.9785

[Xero the Dark.8230]

Yup. Still broken. Like my trust. I'll never spend $80 due to excitement again. They hyped this up and THEY KNEW this was coming. I don't want your turle mount anymore. My time and money means nothing to you. 

[xvalkyrie.6742]

One more fail for the books, because we only got one break bar available at the very start and never saw another one, with multiple tail phases in a row, with her swooping a lot especially after the second wisp phase. I'm just really sad at this point, because we're all trying, and this level of rng isn't fair to a group of players in open world. It'd be one thing if this was a raid encounter. But it's not. I really dislike rng. Sigh. 😞

[Labjax.2465]

From what I'm reading here, it sounds like you just need to move the turtle out of the meta event and give it to people in a reasonable way (reasonable meaning easy, like PoF mount easy) and then they will be able to relax and do progression on the meta as you intended until either they get better or you realize you need to tune it down more.

If you are concerned about the number of turtle mounts in open world content (e.g. if it's too easy to obtain), you shouldn't have made them to begin with. You made this bed, now work with it and repair the damage.

[Chocofox.9503]

Seems the boss isnt transitioning correctly. even after pushing her to the health marker she should phase she will often do another few attacks while invuln eating up time.

[lissiandra.1357]

14 minutes ago, xvalkyrie.6742 said:

One more fail for the books, because we only got one break bar available at the very start and never saw another one, with multiple tail phases in a row, with her swooping a lot especially after the second wisp phase. I'm just really sad at this point, because we're all trying, and this level of rng isn't fair to a group of players in open world. It'd be one thing if this was a raid encounter. But it's not. I really dislike rng. Sigh. 😞

Trust me, I basically live in raids and I'd hate any boss that has this much RNG to the point where I would give up on weekly clears. I enjoy raids because mechanics always happen on some sort of pattern, for example on Sabetha the cannons spawn on a timer and are dealt with on a timer; she always does three flak shots before doing a Flamewall, the Flamewall always targets one individual so you stack to properly position it; the sapper bombs (usually) end up on the target furthest west at a very specific time on the timer. Everything can be predicted and mechanically worked around.

 

Some bosses like Xera and Soulless Horror are disliked in part for their RNG (Xera for the teleports after 50%, the towers you need to leyline glide to, and SH for oneshot wall RNG). Difficult bosses like Qadim and Dhuum have fairly little RNG; on Qadim mobs spawn on the exact same patterns and miniboss movement is very controllable. On Dhuum, after the door-side reaper spawns, all spiders will gravitate towards it; the biggest RNG in Dhuum (for normal mode anyways) is who he picks to target for the dip, his attack pattern is fairly consistent and predictable. You very rarely fail raids because you got unlucky (ok, maybe you fail SH because on CM a wall spawned badly), you failed because you messed something up.

 

None of that is the case for this meta event. You get kitten where the boss has a breakbar, then swoops three times then spawns a tail so you can't even capitalize on the exposed debuff... You aren't failing SooWon because you messed something (CC, movements, splitphase, green mechs) up, you're failing because the boss does not have a predictable pattern that you can burn dps around.

 

edit: before the change on Soo Won, I've had runs where we did the green cheese perfectly, were close to time on everything until 20%, but we lost the run at 15% left because the boss decided to burn 40s on the timer (which only had 2mins left after minibosses) via swooping and tail mechanic. 

Edited March 5, 2022 by lissiandra.1357

[KurokouNekoki.7891]

I have slept for 8 hours this evening, because I'm so sleep deprived from the last four days of trying to go for a completion and also trying to get infos from others peoples' runs around the forums, reddit and in-game; to encounter a massive 6 pages of notifications, on this thread alone, about nothing having really changed (nor that I was expecting something miraculous either by that point).

I tried to do the META after the changes earlier in the afternoon, but immediately got turned off the moment I landed in the map (the four days of hoping, while waiting for communication, took their toll on me (again the importance of quick communication when you are aware of a problem)).

I hear several of my friends who are still attempting but even they are agreeing this is borderline getting into "Insanity" territory, the same insanity that made me snap at some of my friends because I'm exasperated and absolutely demolished.
So I think I'll see more where it leads, because it is far from motivating,

I think by now you should just look at alternative way to get us to have that siege turtle, otherwise I'm afraid this is wasted Development Time because I think we literally throwing the sponge by now.

Edited March 5, 2022 by KurokouNekoki.7891

[Ruisen.9471]

17 minutes ago, Labjax.2465 said:

From what I'm reading here, it sounds like you just need to move the turtle out of the meta event and give it to people in a reasonable way (reasonable meaning easy, like PoF mount easy) and then they will be able to relax and do progression on the meta as you intended until either they get better or you realize you need to tune it down more.

If you are concerned about the number of turtle mounts in open world content (e.g. if it's too easy to obtain), you shouldn't have made them to begin with. You made this bed, now work with it and repair the damage.

Yeah, most of the complaints about the meta is about the turtle, lol.

I think people would stop complaining if they just let us have the turtle some other way.

[KurokouNekoki.7891]

3 minutes ago, Ruisen.9471 said:

Yeah, most of the complaints about the meta is about the turtle, lol.

I think people would stop complaining if they just let us have the turtle some other way.

I honestly don't understand why they just don't let do Escort on the Hatchery and the NPC is like "Thank you for Saving the Hatchery here have an egg, I dunno where it comes from or which species it is, but here you go!" 
Like Aksim with the Raptor in PoF...

Furthering the belief that this expansion was created by a whole different team than the previous expansions with absolutely no play knowledge on how it worked previously...

You want to try something new, how about asking us. You don't change a formula that already works fine, for the sakes of good impression.

Edited March 5, 2022 by KurokouNekoki.7891

[Blue D Phoenix.7260]

I'm actually ok to have 1 hard-core meta in entire gw2. Which actually requires well organised, coordinated group. I'm sure there's gonna be a Guild just for this, lol. 

 

Tho I hope the reward is worth it. I'm also guessing they made the turtle unlock behind this to make players play it, I don't think anyone will be willing to do 1.5 hrs meta and find out what it rewards, Especially when the meta is harder than other metals. 

[Tails.9372]

19 hours ago, Rubi Bayer.8493 said:

The Jade Sea meta was designed to be the ultimate open world finale, an epic conclusion to the 10-year Elder Dragon story arc. To accomplish this ... the encounter was designed from the start to be challenging

And that's where you screwed up. You should have designed it to be a fun place for the average player, one people like to return to but this was obviously not a priority.

Istan for example was a place people liked to play and I still see people lamenting its "downfall" to this day. But this map... I've seen many people including big content creators saying that they're never going to return to it once they got what they were after so gz on accomplishing your initial goal I guess.

Edited March 5, 2022 by Tails.9372

[KurokouNekoki.7891]

2 minutes ago, Blue D Phoenix.7260 said:

I'm actually ok to have 1 hard-core meta in entire gw2. Which actually requires well organised, coordinated group. I'm sure there's gonna be a Guild just for this, lol. 

 

Tho I hope the reward is worth it. I'm also guessing they made the turtle unlock behind this to make players play it, I don't think anyone will be willing to do 1.5 hrs meta and find out what it rewards, Especially when the meta is harder than other metals. 

I swear if that guild is [TAIL] or [GRN] I'll scream. xD

[DiamondGeezer.9086]

Spent 6 hours in one evening failing the event. 

 

get that world raid out of open world to many casuals its not fun.

or get the turtle achievement out of it 

I will not play this event until it's fixed

[Vexona.6452]

1 hour ago, lissiandra.1357 said:

Trust me, I basically live in raids and I'd hate any boss that has this much RNG to the point where I would give up on weekly clears. I enjoy raids because mechanics always happen on some sort of pattern, for example on Sabetha the cannons spawn on a timer and are dealt with on a timer; she always does three flak shots before doing a Flamewall, the Flamewall always targets one individual so you stack to properly position it; the sapper bombs (usually) end up on the target furthest west at a very specific time on the timer. Everything can be predicted and mechanically worked around.

That's the great thing about raids; you're always getting better. Even on the RNG heavier fights, we know X will happen with a possibility of 1 or 3 things. But you are right in that Soo-Won's RNG actually makes the fail, especially when people are understanding and getting into green circles now.

 

[Gorem.8104]

1 hour ago, Ruisen.9471 said:

Yeah, most of the complaints about the meta is about the turtle, lol.

I think people would stop complaining if they just let us have the turtle some other way.

 

The only problem I see with that right now, is that if they did that, in the next instant, this meta and map would die and never be completed. It should have been like that at the start with other ways to get it if they wanted this to be this hard... but this meta needs to be a lot more rewarding then it currently is. Unless this zone can give out like 40 gold an hour, no one will do this besides raid groups who want a raid challenge in a raid. 

[Suranis.8279]

I'm 50 years old and not a well man. I am not autistily good and able to learn perfect pathamatically perfect timed rotations to get OMGWTFBBQ DPS. Or as I like to say, I dont need a computer program to tell me I suck. Hell, I have been stuck needing to Kill Xera for the Legendary Armour Achievement for years now as the raid group I was with broke up and no-one is going to carry a random dude in a 10 man raid, especially when they see my Arcdps damage. Plus I have psychological issues involving lack of confidence and things in my head screaming that I'm useless when I an finding an encounter difficult, to the extent that my brain is actually fighting my hands moving so my attacks slow down.

What you need in a climactic fight is spectacle. You dont need "Challange." as such. You are getting 50 odd random players together who will have completely random set ups. You will have people in raid gear who will be wondering why they are falling over when the Boss looks at them, becasue they wont have the people casting protection and distorting them and so on.. YOu will have the person who only picked up the game a month ago who only has rare gear and one exotic with random stats as they cant craft and only have geared with drops. And you have people like me whose youthful reflexes have gone and who SUCK at jumping puzzles, so that Wisp crap is impossible for me to do (seriously, I've only done the encounter twice but that wisp bouncing was  agony, and I've only made it to the top once). And you have THAT GUY who only wants to kitten the encounter up for everyone, becasue he has a small kitten.

How the eff can you make that encounter "challenging" when you set it up like a 10 man raid? You need clear consistent mechanics. Hell if you want the way it is now, then make it a private instance. For a public instance you need stuff that is largely impossible for someone to deliberately grief and wreck. And right now it does not do that.

As someone said on Reddit "The fact that you are only as good as your worst player in a 50 man group is one of the worst feelings I've ever had in a game." That's the problem.

Take Triple Trouble. When I do that there are generally only maybe 5 experienced people tops doing a special role, namely egg blocker and husk handler, and the rest of the people are following the com in a semi organized mob.  I know it took months for people to figure that out, but the rules of the encounter were consistent. At no time did every single person have to know a special role, like whisping up the tower. AND it was following the rules that the rest of the game follows.

In this one, it is better to NOT do what people have been taught for years to do - stand in a green circle.

And... sorry its just not enjoyable. Even without the fact that it triggers my demons as I start blaming myself for failing an encounter for everyone.

Leave the raid boss difficulty in Raids. I can't do raids without my brain shouting at me that I suck, I don't want to have the same issue when simply completing a story.

Edited March 5, 2022 by Suranis.8279
Added one more line

[GingeraleDragon.5804]

The thing about the meta is that it feels like it was made with how it'll be three months from now in mind, not how it'll be on launch. Sure, it's 6 days old now, but people still do not get the mechanics, no matter how organized the group is. The boss has too much phases of attacking anything other than the central health bar. Green circles don't seem to make sense to anyone. Opportunity of attacks are divided between the head and the tail. For the casual story player, this is a lot. It doesn't make sense.

 

This meta was built around having a turtle. But we can't get a turtle because we STILL do not have enough time to beat the final boss.

 

It's cool. It's fun. It's a great idea. But we can't eat the cake we don't have. Locking the turtle behind this is absolutely cruel if it's going to be in the state it's in right now. This meta hurts my fingers every time I play it.

But you guys are doing great with fine-tuning this content as it's rolled out. I feel like you could axe certain mechanics of the boss fight itself and nothing will be lost. The tail? Pointless and confusing. The whirlpools? Less a threat and more a speedbump, it's easier to die in them than fight them. The side-bosses? Okay, once is neat, but another three when time is already so short? Wouldn't exactly call that fun.

 

Is it do-able? Sure, maybe. But I'm not the kind of person who has the gold to invest in min-maxing my casual exotic-armor characters, craft legendaries, and full ascended sets. I'm the kind of guy who goes through the story content comfortably. This meta seems to cater to those kind of people in terms of what it has to offer, there's even an achievement for it related to the story. So why's this built like a raid? The whole first area in Cantha has a base game tutorial area. What kind of people is this expansion catered for? New players? New players are not going to understand this.

 

Please axe some of the mechanics to the boss fight. Or give us more time. As of right now, it feels more like a chore than an epic conclusion to 10 years of dragon-slaying.

[Doomfrost.5728]

People will eventually get better, and then it'll just be another event. The fact that even right now people are able to get the final boss so low on health this early on means that'll it'll probably be a cakewalk given time. 

[Minjin.8259]

I think it needs more time added.  I have done it multiple times, people are understanding the mechanics and all.  But to fail when she has a sliver of health and the clock runs out or because of RNG is very tiring.  It's a LONG meta.  While I love the game and play too many hours a day, people like me still have families and work and outside lives.  So most of us can't just sit and spam it endlessly, nor do we want to.  Sure I want a turtle like everyone else.  But not at this expense of time and energy.  I realize it's new and I will get it eventually, but I am losing the urge to try right now.

Edited March 5, 2022 by Minjin.8259
typo

[UMos.6347]

I think the meta is fine as it is.

While I have not completed it, the challenge is a refreshing thing. Right now, I don't really care about the reward at the end. If it is "just" the turtle or not. I agree with some people that, if the loot is not good, people will stop running a tough fight once everyone got their turtles. Since I don't like farming the same meta over and over again, I don't think that is that big of a problem.

 

For those who say that this meta is too big hard and therefore gatekeeping people from getting the turtle mount: The grifon and skyscale were also pretty meaty achievements so I don't see the problem when you don't get it in one week.

 

What changes I DO like is that we should not skip some green-circle-phase by dying. I think that is only fair and makes the fight better.

[GingeraleDragon.5804]

21 minutes ago, UMos.6347 said:

The grifon and skyscale were also pretty meaty achievements so I don't see the problem when you don't get it in one week.

The Griffon and Skyscale weren't locked beyond content that the average player may or may not do. A time and moneysink? Sure, but not behind a boss fight that doesn't have enough time to complete it.

[Artemis.8034]

1 hour ago, Gorem.8104 said:

 

The only problem I see with that right now, is that if they did that, in the next instant, this meta and map would die and never be completed. It should have been like that at the start with other ways to get it if they wanted this to be this hard... but this meta needs to be a lot more rewarding then it currently is. Unless this zone can give out like 40 gold an hour, no one will do this besides raid groups who want a raid challenge in a raid. 

Its going to die anyway, people that have the turtle aint going back if they can help it, and those that cant get it will just stop out of frustration. I feel bad for new players in the future they will never get it, should never lock a mount behind something like this. Esp when you made a statement saying said mount would not be any harder than the roller beetle. I dont rem having to fight a raid boss for the beetle. i rem doing a bunch of events and collecting , but nothing on this level of mechanics and rng 

[Labjax.2465]

3 minutes ago, GingeraleDragon.5804 said:

The Griffon and Skyscale weren't locked beyond content that the average player may or may not do. A time and moneysink? Sure, but not behind a boss fight that doesn't have enough time to complete it.

This. Also, IMO they are still too much, even though less so than turtle. Two wrongs don't make a right, as the saying goes. Idk why any mounts should be behind such locks to begin with. Games these days will obsess so hard over keeping players in-game they refuse to give them fun things to use so they'll enjoy the experience, making them treat the game like a job to chase some future concept of fun in the distance. The result being that people will burn themselves out hoping at the end, they get to enjoy themselves and then by the time they actually get what they wanted, they realize it was built up too much and they are too burned out now to enjoy it much anyway. I can already see that's happening with the turtle mount based on the replies here and that's before people have even gotten it, which makes it doubly worse.

For my own part, when I started playing PoF and got ahold of a raptor, I started having fun quickly. By comparison, when I chase some collection or whatever to acquire something I want, I'm often putting off fun (having to do stuff I didn't want to do) to get what I think will be fun in the future and that kind of thing eats away at my interest in a game over time until I just don't want to log in anymore.