Upcoming Changes to "The Battle For The Jade Sea"

[Veka.8710]

5 minutes ago, Pyriel.4370 said:

If you find that unpleasant then you must avoid confrontation in it's entirety. It's called pointing out the obvious.

Buddy, it's unpleasant because you're coming off in a very condescending tone and I have been reading the last few pages just an fyi, you could've been more respectful about disagreeing with other peoples opinion. This whole response you're giving me right now is another example with you being unpleasant, seems to me like you need to avoid confrontations entirely if you can't respect other peoples opinions but expect people to respect yours. There's a rude way and a respectful way, good day. 

 

 

7 minutes ago, Gorem.8104 said:

TT is something most people will never see or know exists. the EOD Story puts you into this area and tells you to do the meta. You cannot compare the 2. You need to actively go out of your way to do TT. 

I feel like the should've made the harder version like Dragonstorm, a controlled instance like that with better rewards.

Edited March 14, 2022 by Veka.8710

[Pyriel.4370]

1 minute ago, Raizel.8175 said:

In my opinion, it was a very good finale. You're finally fighting a real Elder Dragon - the first time since Mordremoth. Kralkatorik was a pitiful mess of hitting defenseless "weak points" and Jormag and Primordus killed each other - you only fought their so-called "Champions". We're two weeks into the expansion now. Things will most likely change. In most of the more or less organized squads I was in since the last patch, with some decent RNG we always had around 2 minutes left. I'd like to see some cautious changes first instead of having Arena Net "overcorrect". I'd be happy if they'd fix the RNG-aspect first so we as community can see if we then achieve reasonable results.

For it to be good, you'd be looking at the story finale. THAT is good. multi faceted, story-driven, hectic enough, inspiring enough. Showed real effort and love.

For that meta to be "good" for fighting an elder dragon. I'd suggest the following.
 - Remove all RNG relating to the tail and switch and have it purely phase orientated.
 - Lower mob count but make the ones left have more hp, perhaps these mobs should be Zhaitan, Mordremoth, Kralkatorrik, Primordus and Jormag, or at least their champs.
 - Whirlpools can be broken by dmg instead of breakbar.
 - Make bubbles targettable by melee, perhaps graphically have a fountain or something feeding them to have it make sense.
 - Disable tables and reduce breakbar for everything.
 - Add in phases where you fight the "reflections" (like the story finale).
 - Add in multi rewards like Teq where for each phase you pass, you get a chest.
 - Add in real rewards and it's own achieve section.
 - Add the option of a hard mode triggered only by guilds or "alliances", use this for RL hype for world first. 
 - Speed up the pre-events.
 - Longer timer.

[Seth Moonshadow.2710]

11 minutes ago, Raizel.8175 said:

Well, sorry... Triple Trouble also requires decent coordination. You can't always design content based on the lowest common denominator. If you do, you're going to be creatively bankrupt at some point of time.

False! "creativity" has nothing to do with difficulty. Not coding for your lowest common denominator needs a different kind of packaging as that is the average game out there including Guild Wars 2. You will go bankrupt if you don't and then where will your creativeness be? Many games have failed because of that.

 

The creative portion of that meta is fantabulus! Having a tail swipe (when not rng) having the slapping hand the battle it's self is great! That is not many of our complaints!

 

The complaint is:

1 Open World belongs to open world = Lowest Common Denominator

2 RNG remove it or keep it but only in the instanced version

3 Should have locked box items and their access (not to be confused with unlocking just the collection but actually getting and using of the item) attached to story, Tasks or achievement  and not behind another "Unique game experience" (i.e. RAID's and Strikes).

 

As I see them and as many others have stated. That seems the consensus.

 

At this point I would be happy if they just unlocked the mount on every ones account. I liked the way I earned all my other mounts. This was supposed to be easier.

[Zephire.8049]

1 hour ago, Raizel.8175 said:

It isn't hard - the only "hard" part is RNG screwing you over. The rest consists of basic game mechanics. That's why people should post suggestions about fixing the RNG-aspect.

RNG =/= difficulty and as players cannot affect RNG, it's a needless difficulty and any RNG that can randomly fail people no matter how well they play or how much time they put in is a bad mechanic that should have never made it past QA.

But of the "basic mechanics" there is:

• An AOE that insta-downs you that cannot be blocked or dodged if you're in the indicator when 99% of AOEs up to this point can be blocked or dodged even if you're in the indicator. There's also no message in the meta or any other point in the game that a swirly border on AOE means it cannot be blocked or dodged.
• There's zero indication the slam will result in a wave across the platform even though we've had that indicator for years.
• Purple indicators over your head mean you're focused and have an extra mechanic. Only this time you have no say over the mechanic, assuming you even see the indicator as there's no text or auditory notification you'll be bubbled.
• Ignore people who are downed/bubbled/in whirlpools even though you've been told helping others will help yourself (and the game advertised as such).
• Kill adds. Except don't unless it's a phase where you can't focus on the boss as you need to focus the boss and ignore everything else whenever you can attack her because of how slim the margin of error is and you have no leeway when it comes to damage.
• If your skills change over, that means the developers want you to use the new skills. Except this time.

Even following the zerg doesn't work because the zerg can be slow to react to changes. Except you kinda need the zerg to survive the sheer number of adds so there's only so much you can do. You are both expected to play selfishly and not do anything without the group.

Cut the RNG down (not having a set X > Y > Z of mechanics is fine but there needs to be limitations on it), cut the sheer number of adds by at least half, better indicate the slam is different than every other AOE in the game, indicate there's a wave that comes from the slam, better indicate when people are about to be bubbled and provide a way to avoid that, drastically cut down the whirlpool breakbars and/or allow them to be broken via damage, change the colour of the orbs during the cyclone phase to be green or blue so people want to pick them up/they don't blend in with all the crossed swords of the same colour, remove the AOE indicator for edge where people attack the tail so people don't run back into her tail when she slams it down.

That's just off the top of my head.

The mechanics are consistent until they aren't and there's no indication when they aren't unless you run head first into them. And in a meta such as this, that means there's only so many new players a group can take on because this encounter is designed so you need prior experience in it (or can learn extremely fast) but the threshold for success is small so if more than a handful of people are slow in reacting or die to mechanics, people who are probably new to the whole thing, it's likely a fail for the whole group.

And even then, that's assuming a bug doesn't wipe everyone, everyone has fast computers and internet connections, and RNG doesn't decide no matter how hard and well people carried that it's a big fat fail for the whole lot.

RNG is certainly an issue but even the "basic" mechanics work differently and the meta assumes everyone will have a base level of understanding raid mechanics regardless of if they raid or not, prior meta experience, knowledge of traits, knowledge of skills, and knowledge of gear that is unreasonable to have for people in an open world environment. You even need to know how LFG works and how to swap maps to someone else in a squad and that there's a timer page on the wiki, something the game doesn't teach you about.

[Desh.7028]

1 hour ago, Tuna Bandit.3786 said:

I am sorry, but if this meta needs to rely on THIRD PARTY SOFTWARE which discord is, to be succesful, there are problems. 

 

It doesn't. Did it with a squad without.

Generally speaking out of game voice chat is not common but standard for MMORPGs where instanced larger group content exists. So pointing out that it's third party software feels somewhat weird.

 

What it does require though is preparation to get full map buffs, full boons and fishing for an empty map to make it a pseudo-instanced fight ... unless you are a masochist that is.

The full boon requirement hurts "play what you want" in open world and how things are done to get a clean map means it literally isn't open world anymore for high success raid. Whatever needs to be changed to change that needs changing.

[Seth Moonshadow.2710]

13 minutes ago, Desh.7028 said:

 

So pointing out that it's third party software feels somewhat weird.

Accept that back in the days of Guild Wars (know as Guild Wars 1 or gw1) the topic was made about having voice chat added to guild wars 2. So if they were going to go the route of "Extreme Sports" or rewrite what Open World means later then they should have done more to include that as part of the game and maybe it would have been a more acceptable meta? But they didn't and so to those who've been here long enough to recall that it doesn't feel weird.

 

No it doesn't require it but it sure does help and they made a big taddo about not using  3rd party software that they are apparently going back on now. Like the use of DPS meters. They are not technically allowed but they let players use them. For me I've been booted from party's because of them and it took a long time to complete that content until they made changes all because lfg was gating it with DPS meters. In fact it took a year. So there is room for improvement. I think is all we are saying.

 

Just some background I don't know if you have.

 

Otherwise 😃👍

[daninumbers.4036]

Again I've been told that this meta is easy. Oh and yeah, it is. The mechanics are fairly simple. But the entire (open world) game is based on things like if you can't cc that breakbar just swarming will get that mob killed. The Shatterer, hardly ever being broken because it takes better organization, but even failing those phases, with enough people, the event is rare it fails. Claw of Jormag? Supposedly you move and also dodge the massive damage falling icycles. Does anyone do that? Nope, you stay there and ignore that mechanic, you block or are rezzed. And basically everything is like that, you ignore the mechanics or a few people doing it is enough.

Here you must do them or fail due to no exposed debuff or simply insta wipe with other mechanics. It's way too late to change things when the foundation is you don't need to have really high dps, bring several support classes, dodge (because you just stack on tag and rely on heals, aegis, protection), do specific rotations, join a map from the beginning rather than at the very last minute taxiing so no contributor buff. That's pretty much every open world content out there. And the last one becomes the test you didn't study for because you didn't feel like you needed it... but this time for you to pass you need everyone else in the class to pass too, otherwise everyone fails.

As my friend said, yes, the meta is easy... but with organization and without pugging. So then I wonder, is this a meta or is it pseudo-instanced content that you need to premake as if it was a strike with pre-events? I've never needed Discord for open world, just wvw at most. I'd use TS just for raids years ago. Open world is a group of randoms that happened to be in the map, someone tagged up (or not) and dediced to join all together and with numbers, in most cases, it succeeds. That's a staple meta. This is a strike with extra long steps. And even those lesser metas and world bosses are way more rewarding than this based on profit/time.

I just want to be able to finish it in the same fashion as everything else that GW2 offers. Being more challenging, yeah, fine. Being a waste of time due to bad rng and being unable to land a very good group if you don't gatekeep average players, no.

[Desh.7028]

39 minutes ago, Seth Moonshadow.2710 said:

they made a big taddo about not using  3rd party software that they are apparently going back on now

 

Ok. I understand now what the background here is. This is however not about webapps or pages though but about mods and overlays for the game.

Arc and Taco are half silently accepted but Anet wanted none of that, this is also a technical thing with how programs interact with the game while it's running. Did some research here for no particular reason at all. 

The wiki, snowcrows or voip was never target of that though with one of those resources (arguably the most significant one) being fully endorsed and Anet has no business in telling you what you're doing with your browser anyway.

 

Overall a personal DPS meter in game might've been the right choice though as long as it gives detailed views. Even a good player can only ever get to great with such information because in order to know what to learn you first must know that there even is something you could learn. It also would communicate correctly that in a game without trinity and active dodge DPS is kind of a big deal. Another way would've been what I've seen in Lost Ark recently where instanced missions are won with a small award window for support, damage and crowd control to give you a ballpark idea how you're doing.

This is not about slapping your kitten on the table but rather about having accessible options for getting feedback on your efficacy.

For example: Condition specs actually deal a varying amount of damage through different conditions and even power damage. Knowing the ratios is something one can learn and then make more informed decisions about gear and gameplay.

[Zabi Zabi.3561]

3 hours ago, Seth Moonshadow.2710 said:

Not to mention in a game where 3rd party software is austricized and even a bannable offense.

 Except for one third party add on which I think was endorsed? (not sure might have to correct me on that one) which was the Radial Menu add on for your mounts. (why the devs don't just pay the people who made the add on and add it to the game themselves I have no idea because it is a god send when it comes to swapping mounts on the fly and it beats remembering a dozen flipping hotkeys)

[Avenrise.3592]

Okay so my take as a super casual PvE'er of many years...

I have failed the DE meta 7 times now and each and every time I've taken extreme pleasure at the difficulty. I honestly think it's tuned just fine and we've reached a point now where we should be asking PvE'ers to step up their game a little. I don't mean this in a 'git gud' kinda way, I just feel that the mechanics are not hard in of themselves and learning about break bars, movement (including having movement abilities) and boon support should be being encouraged at this point in the game's life for the sake of interesting new encounters going forward.

What in my opinion needs to change are:

1) Rewards for failing/only progressing a certain way through. Maybe a reward per step of the meta.

2) RNG in the tail phases, to be replaced with (and this is super important) RNG that can be mitigated. RNG is great and brings unpredictability to a fight. Really means you have to react to what is going on in real time instead of just learning the entire battle and facerolling it after a few weeks of doing it. Suggestion? Tail RNG changed to set phases or just reduced, and have Soo-Won do a double bite at random on two random different areas of the platform. That attack is really cool and encouraging player movement is never a bad thing.

3) You could shorten the meta a little by having the East and West lanes make a beeline from the outposts to the 'Quell the Void corruption' events. It's cool watching the NPCs battle their way there but it would shave off a few minutes from a (failed) meta.

I'm sure I'll think of more down the line but the point I want to make is that it should be okay to have an open world event that is difficult. Triple Trouble is great, the revamped Tequatl was great at launch... players just need to know that their time isn't being 'wasted' (although as I say, enjoying every second here!)

Edited March 15, 2022 by Thereon.3495

[Seth Moonshadow.2710]

4 hours ago, Zabi Zabi.3561 said:

 Except for one third party add on which I think was endorsed? (not sure might have to correct me on that one) which was the Radial Menu add on for your mounts. (why the devs don't just pay the people who made the add on and add it to the game themselves I have no idea because it is a god send when it comes to swapping mounts on the fly and it beats remembering a dozen flipping hotkeys)

You could be right? I recall a discussion about that along side some mention of relaxed DPS meters "as long as you didn't do anything to other players" Cuz THAT never happens! I also would not say it 100% on either of the topics Except that those with DPS meter do do things against those that don't and/or are not to that players standards (whatever those might be).

[Seth Moonshadow.2710]

5 hours ago, Desh.7028 said:

 

Ok. I understand now what the background here is. This is however not about webapps or pages though but about mods and overlays for the game.

Arc and Taco are half silently accepted but Anet wanted none of that, this is also a technical thing with how programs interact with the game while it's running. Did some research here for no particular reason at all. 

The wiki, snowcrows or voip was never target of that though with one of those resources (arguably the most significant one) being fully endorsed and Anet has no business in telling you what you're doing with your browser anyway.

 

Overall a personal DPS meter in game might've been the right choice though as long as it gives detailed views. Even a good player can only ever get to great with such information because in order to know what to learn you first must know that there even is something you could learn. It also would communicate correctly that in a game without trinity and active dodge DPS is kind of a big deal. Another way would've been what I've seen in Lost Ark recently where instanced missions are won with a small award window for support, damage and crowd control to give you a ballpark idea how you're doing.

This is not about slapping your kitten on the table but rather about having accessible options for getting feedback on your efficacy.

For example: Condition specs actually deal a varying amount of damage through different conditions and even power damage. Knowing the ratios is something one can learn and then make more informed decisions about gear and gameplay.

Yes to much of the above! especially " Even a good player can only ever get to great with such information because in order to know what to learn you first must know that there even is something you could learn." It could have been addressed with a head's up display option. Not that that SHOULD be AreanaNets job they did after all give us some tools that other apps and browsers read off in the Chat box. There is a "Combat" option and in there you can select some options to fill your chat box full of lingo about damage output and received that could have been put in a heads up display to be turned on or off by the player. But it wasn't and I don't fault them for that. Though I know some out there use and read that info. To me it doesn't make sense when you compare other players talking about 10k DPS or 40k DPS, I'm like "Mine says I hit for 1897 six time in a row, does that mean I'm only doing 12k rounded up? or just 2k rounded up?" So meh wut eves.

But yes you are right on many points there.

 

Another issue with all this is the AreanaNet Partners are even saying to the player base they won't go back, in map players are telling players IF they get the turtle they won't be back. So If no one is going to be there who is going to help or teach those that need it? I've even said it. It's not what any of us wanted for the game. Maybe some l33tz did but I don't think a majority of them did.

We were all collectively excited for the release.

 

Let's hope for the best tomorrow, yeah?

Edited March 15, 2022 by Seth Moonshadow.2710
removed data and added data

[Atria.6729]

I just want to remind about the remastered Marionette. I personally pushed through it in the first week after release to get all achievement and never did it again. It was not about difficulty, mechanics there for each line are fairly easy to learn. It was about no reason to redo it. Rewards didn't justify the effort. Same here, rewards from DE final meta are simply sad. I will push my way for achievements once again and than there will be no more reason to repeat the meta.

So I hope that this will be fixed, as it was mentioned above that they are working on this. Even dedicated players that want to help others achieve this will give up at some point.

[Zephire.8049]

I did the same since the writing was on the wall after Anet said they were fine with it catering to raiders. Knocked out the achievements ASAP while it was popular because who knew how active it would be in the future. I actually forget it exists because it was so forgetful. Maybe people who played season 1 have some nostalgia for it but without rewards and no one talking about it anymore, it blends in with everything else.

Anet hyped it up a lot, too. But when told it was too difficult and the rewards too meager to appeal to casual players, they said they were fine with that and it was supposed to be hard(er) content. (Sounds kind of familiar, eh?)

The last time I saw anyone mention it was a month or two after it released. And with Eye of the North no longer being the main hub as we've moved on from IBS, there's not even an indicator it's starting on the minimap anymore.

[Tukaram.8256]

On 3/10/2022 at 9:08 AM, Sentient Anomaly.9473 said:

Second, in the March 15 update, we’ll be providing players with an alternate path for acquiring the Siege Turtle Egg, which unlocks the collection required for the Siege Turtle mount. We’ll be adding a new vendor to the Jade Sea map that will sell the Siege Turtle Egg at the cost of 200 Writs of the Jade Sea.

This is great news. I have not gotten to that point in the story yet (there is no hurry ha ha), but I am glad to hear I can skip the event.  I may try it, but it does not sound like fun to me. And game play is all about having fun. 😎

[Minjin.8259]

11 hours ago, Seth Moonshadow.2710 said:

THIRD PARTY SOFTWARE

Not to mention in a game where 3rd party software is austricized and even a bannable offense. When it leads to having an advantage over other players. Yet that is exactly what it is doing now! Now there are tools to check and see how well your DPS is doing. Again those tools are in the "Special Forces" section of the game!

 

Yes! I wold love to see the numbers of PUG maps! I've been on many I know none of mine have succeeded!

 

Even IF the turtle is unlocked via a vendor to complete the collection to fully unlock it you'll still have to do strike mission that if are more than story level ISN'T going to get us our turtles still! On a mount that was supposed to be "easier and faster" to get .🤪

 

PUG's may be failing the meta and other EoD content but AreanaNet is failing PUG's & PvErs too!😔

I did the strike mission and honestly after the first fail and figuring out the mechs it wasn't bad.  Although I don't know who thought it was a good idea to be able to fall off the platform....>.>

[Astralporing.1957]

2 hours ago, Atria.6729 said:

I just want to remind about the remastered Marionette. I personally pushed through it in the first week after release to get all achievement and never did it again. It was not about difficulty, mechanics there for each line are fairly easy to learn. It was about no reason to redo it. Rewards didn't justify the effort.

Additionally when they reintroduced Marionette they seemed to forget it was originally balanced around 3 times as big map size as that of private instance (and double that of a public one), and in a way that could not be easily balanced by power creep.

So, they decided to introduce Marionette to be harder than original (and significantly harder for private squad than for public one), but at the same time they made it to be less rewarding than original, even though overall reward level in the game went way up since then.

It's sad that they didn't seem to learn anything from it.

[Sarnai.8107]

Got to the point where I can't even get to the meta-maps 1.5 hours prior to the event. As if people get in squads and fill in the maps immediately after the past event ended. So I either have to dedicate 2+ hours for one meta (or sit on the map the whole day if we fail), or just drop all the chances of doing it.

 

Today I jumped in LFG for dragonfall in the middle of the event and got half the rewards, but didnt have any problem following people around and getting on the map itself. Same with any other meta I've attempted. 

 

Dragons end is just pretty much locked completely unless you're lucky or very dedicated to spend your game time ONLY on it.

 

And there is like 3-4 groups at best in lfg. Mostly I see 2 groups with 2 full maps, if there is any at all.

[Tachenon.5270]

I lucked into a successful attempt last night. Largest squad I've seen in there, with a great commander. And I only fell off the platform once! Woot! I think it was my 7th run, not counting a couple that were just for the heck of it that nobody expected to succeed. Got the egg, yay, whoopee. But I got better loot -- some exotics and yellows with new skins -- from all the pre-events I've been part of this past couple of weeks, which were also more FUN because they were less stressful. I got enough stress already, ya know. Maybe I'll do this one again, at least a time or two, because I'd kinda like to try playing some support builds, particularly ones that provide alacrity -- an effect I've only recently come to notice (due to this meta) when its not there. The time required for a 'serious' attempt, though, is kinda prohibitive. We'll see.

Anyway, good luck to all still striving for that elusive successful run! And happy turtling to those that opt to get the little feller today with those writ thingees, of which I've amassed, well, mass quantities.

/salute

[Night Winde.2693]

On 3/10/2022 at 12:53 AM, Heibi.4251 said:

ANET - are you really going to defend this META or are you going to admit you went overboard? Admitting you  were wrong is not a bad thing. In fact, the community will welcome such an admission. But if you continue to believe that you can do no wrong we will not trust you in the future. My money is not something you can count on in the future. If you check your financial records you will see that I have spent a lot on this game trying to support GW2. But I am currently reevaluating my support.  

Your March 15th alternative to acquiring the turtle is NOT THE SOLUTION.

Actions that I will be taking. No more purchasing GEMS with real money - I'm especially not buying any turtle skins. You've already lost that. I'd start thinking seriously about this. I'm not the only one here thinking this.

Just so you know - I've been playing this game from GW1 beta. I have been one of your most ardent supporters, even when you messed up.  I've probably spent more than 12k dollars on this game over the years. You have really gone this far to lose such an ardent supporter as myself. 

Over the years going all the way back to Prophecies in 2005 I have bought the games, bought the expansions, spent a few thousand over those years in the Gem store and gift shop.  This mess?  That's the end of my financial support.  Let them get the money from the 1%ers they appear to be catering to.  You know, the people that don't spend that much money on the game...

[ADrenalin.6803]

Is the update for the Meta (fix) coming today or not?

[Chichimec.9364]

53 minutes ago, ADrenalin.6803 said:

Is the update for the Meta (fix) coming today or not?

Last I heard, it was supposed to. The patches often come around 11 am, cdt, about an hour from the time I am posting this.

[StyxTBeuford.2071]

18 hours ago, Veka.8710 said:

There is no excuse for the CC though, one of the very first thing you do in EoD story was go to a golem that teches you about CC. Where the Dev messed up imo is that they didn't prepare people for that meta properly. There's way too many stuff that gets slapped on and it goes from 1 to 100 real quick with that meta. They should've added bosses and champions on the way to the meta boss that have the boss mechanic. Each champion as you progress adds on another mechanic that the boss will use, that way by the time you get to the boss you would know what to do (not entirely sure what I said make sense, sorry :x)

Dude, people come into EoD Meta with EMP charges and still can't get the breakbars through. In fact, one of the biggest things that irks me about this meta is that it feels tailored to a bunch of players who HAVE done everything else in the game, who have those Icebrood Masteries. Someone coming into EoD cold, whether a new player or a returning player, wont have that mastery. I don't care how much the game teaches them to CC, the balance is just way off because they tailored the meta to apparently everyone having EMP charges. 

The issue here isn't lack of adequate priming or training, though I will say there is an obvious jump in difficulty between the meta and all of the story/open world content that comes before it. It's balance. It's a systemic issue indicated by bad win rates, long wait times, a map that conflicts free exploration and story with a ridiculously tight meta timer, and over lack of forethought and design on ANET's part. This isn't an issue of get gud. 

[Heibi.4251]

See ZERO real fixes to the actual META. Only thing is the dialog part which is so minor it wouldn't register on a California rector scale. 

And as I've stated - buying no skins unless this is fixed for the ENTIRE COMMUNITY!!!!

Edited March 15, 2022 by Heibi.4251

[subgenius.7649]

im not seeing a vendor in the patch notes? anyone else see it?