Upcoming Changes to "The Battle For The Jade Sea"

[Tachenon.5270]

Okay, I checked and had somewhere in the vicinity of 17k VM. Cool. Between what I already had, hitting a couple exchange vendors, and refilling a heart I was able to scrounge up enough Inscribed Shards to get 3 insignias (and the armor recipes for VM and laurels). By some miracle I had enough leather on hand to craft a plaguedoctor's coat, leggings, and boots. Cool. Also went ahead and bought the Tempest runes for around 21 gold, which hurt, but whatever. It's only money...

Anyway, thanks for the info. I hadn't thought of using VM that way.

[Atria.6729]

4 hours ago, Tachenon.5270 said:

But when it comes to the meta support builds, and some of the condi builds, it's always the same: the recommended gear is out of my reach.

If you go for ascended, yeah, crafting it is. But if you go for exotic buying the selectable stat ones from Verdant Brink currency vendors is the easy go-to for more expensive stats. Only chest piece is not possible to buy, requires tier 4 night meta there/random drop from one of the night bosses.

[Ashantara.8731]

On 3/26/2022 at 12:32 PM, Erise.5614 said:

If that was the intention then it has no place in the open world. It should be instanced content or have a deliberate trigger that starts the meta which already requires coordination. So only well organized maps that have a chance of success spend those 2 hours and everyone participating fully understands what kind of participation is expected. What kind of content this is. 

If your interpretation is accurate then the entire map is a trap the story leads players into with the deliberate intention to have players fail a few times and waste several hours.

At least the event should at least be presented as different kind of content and set itself apart from other metas before people get frustrated. Otherwise it's only the frustration that remains in memory. That sets it apart. 

I have done map completion and achievements on the map without participating in the meta event.

You are as little "trapped and forced" to do the DE meta when you're on the map as you are forced to fight the Octovine when in Auric Basin, or the Chak Gerent while in Tangled Depths, or the canopy bosses when exploring Verdant Brink.

[Gorem.8104]

22 hours ago, Tuna Bandit.3786 said:

I'd say succes should not rely on getting lucky with the RNG.

Today I tried it again, with a competent group. We were basically denied a win due to getting "Unlucky" which is absolutely and utterly unacceptable in a Meta with such a long and grindy preperation phase.

When you get your 10 events, when you do the escorts fast, and then get bad luck at the end fight and denied the win, that makes me furious.

REMOVE the RNG.

This is what happened:

1st CC phase at 81%: Useless, 30 seconds exposed lost. Nice one.
2nd CC phase at 61%... you gotta be kidding right?
3rd CC phase SECONDS after tail, everyone runs for tail, and BOOM CC bar comes up and we're at the tail... nice twist... was btw at 43%...
And if all that is not enough: we get a lag spike and immediatly see the clock drop from 7 to 3 and a half minute in 5 seconds time... SERIOUSLY??? That is the 4th time I see this happen.

This all, makes me mad, steaming mad.

Look, you announced there will be a 4th expansion in the future... I for one will NOT pre-order this unless you win my trust back, because right now... it is zero. Right now, I deeply regret pre-ordering this expansion. 

The entire expansion, for me, is overshadowed by this horrible RNG fest of a so called Meta.

Don't let Luck be a factor in a 2 hour event. That is just flipping the bird to your player base. RNG on this meta should, at this stage, be reduced to ZERO. 

Right now, IF I try it again and happen to win, I am happy, that means I can finish the achievements and NEVER EVER EVER EVER EVER return to this HORRIBLE Meta EVER AGAIN!

 

I saw this before too, was in a group that had the highest dps I had ever seen for the meta, the boss was melting. RNG caused the 80-60 phase take 5 minutes longer then groups I have seen with a lot less dps. We failed at the end once we started to hit her lower then 20%, people realised we just didn't have the time required and left. If we had better RNG we'd have beaten her with like six mins on the clock, but bad RNG stated that it was going to be a loss no matter how good the players were. 

Eventually have gotten my kill with a worse group but better RNG and am never going back to that zone besides to grind out a few last mastery levels. Once mastery capped most likely will never visit Cantha again. Really feels like I should not have pre-ordered this expac and just waited a good year. But at the same time, if you don't get it done now, when the zones dead, will it ever be possible? In my time zone already people are taxi'ing as we can only fill one map. 

Edited March 28, 2022 by Gorem.8104

[Mickey.4207]

1 hour ago, Gorem.8104 said:

I saw this before too, was in a group that had the highest dps I had ever seen for the meta, the boss was melting. RNG caused the 80-60 phase take 5 minutes longer then groups I have seen with a lot less dps. We failed at the end once we started to hit her lower then 20%, people realised we just didn't have the time required and left. If we had better RNG we'd have beaten her with like six mins on the clock, but bad RNG stated that it was going to be a loss no matter how good the players were. 

Eventually have gotten my kill with a worse group but better RNG and am never going back to that zone besides to grind out a few last mastery levels. Once mastery capped most likely will never visit Cantha again. Really feels like I should not have pre-ordered this expac and just waited a good year. But at the same time, if you don't get it done now, when the zones dead, will it ever be possible? In my time zone already people are taxi'ing as we can only fill one map. 

Prime time today. Only one group which was doing pre meta events only to purchase the egg. Other than that it was pretty dead. All other Cantha maps are active as hell so i am focusing on those metas now to get xp and loota nd success rate is 100% so you don't feel you are wasting your time 

Edited March 28, 2022 by Mickey.4207

[EveningTempo.4796]

Well folks, the issue has been solved by the players. Just don't play the game.

Not a single reply in that thread acknowledging that the problems are problems.

Just a stream of insinuations that I am the problem.

I am the problem because I want to play all the content.

My mistake I guess.

[IAmNotMatthew.1058]

6 minutes ago, EveningTempo.4796 said:

Well folks, the issue has been solved by the players. Just don't play the game.

Not a single reply in that thread acknowledging that the problems are problems.

Just a stream of insinuations that I am the problem.

I am the problem because I want to play all the content.

My mistake I guess.

Play the content then, it's right in front of you.

[Gorem.8104]

Since there were changes, do we have documents to the "Improved rewards"? Is it an infusion as no one has seen it yet? 
And still more nerfs/changes, only now she appears bugged and is biting a lot again. 

It really just needs either a huge reward increase, super huge, or a full page long nerf. Many suggestions here that would be perfect to implement. 

[Zok.4956]

Today, repeatedly, the CC-phase was at the same time as the tail-phase, shortly the after tail-phase started. Is this a new "improvement" to make the fight more challenging or was I just lucky not experiencing this before?

 

[Erise.5614]

16 minutes ago, Zok.4956 said:

Today, repeatedly, the CC-phase was at the same time as the tail-phase, shortly the after tail-phase started. Is this a new "improvement" to make the fight more challenging or was I just lucky not experiencing this before?

 

Seems intentional. It's happening a lot exactly like that.

A lot more bites too (the side swap)

Edited March 31, 2022 by Erise.5614

[Ruisen.9471]

On 3/28/2022 at 7:33 AM, SinisterSlay.6973 said:

So question. Compared to EOD meta. How are raids?

I've always avoided them because of the build requirements. But if they really aren't harder than this meta or the latest strike. Maybe I should try them?

From an individual level, raids are much more mechanically demanding (at least, wings 1-3, haven't done the later wings).    On Soo-Won, one shot mechanics generally give you 6-8 seconds to avoid it, in raids you have significantly less time to react to it, and also much less time to do the CC bar.   There's also much more personal responsibility - one person failing their job can cause a raid wipe but that won't happen in EoD meta.

Raids are almost certainly easier to organize though, you're not trying to herd 49 people who don't know how to play the game into doing things.

Edited March 31, 2022 by Ruisen.9471

[Ruisen.9471]

  

On 3/28/2022 at 6:29 AM, Erise.5614 said:

Someone calculated that you need 7k dps on average to succeed.

The average open world meta has somewhere around 4k - 5k average (not just on DE but also on Octo and others). Just means you ended up on maps with unusually high DPS. Whatever you're doing to find groups appears to be self selecting with mostly other pretty good players. 

A lot of factors can improve and decrease your chances. Like good or bad CC phases. But in the end, it's not because of anything specific you did. It's whether you're on a map that has a chance or not. 

Actually, now that you mention it, I can start to see where they came up with the numbers for the DPS check.

If people are doing 5k on average, then with the 25% damage buff from DE that puts people up to 6k DPS average.   The fight is designed around burning the boss during exposed phase and after wisp phase, so adding in the 30% DPS from exposed, and you'd expect people to be doing 7-8k DPS during the DPS phases of the fight (even more for condi since its 100% condi increase), using the same gear they were doing 5k DPS on octovines.

That means, if they can guarantee that the boss will stay put during exposed, and not have a CC bar right after it moves, as well as adding in 1-2 additional CC bar phases (an open world group should be allowed to fail CC 1-2 times out of 4 or 5), that should push up success rates.

 Failure of CC phase should also be more telegraphed and be obvious to everyone, so that people know its the CC and have something to learn from next time, instead of just thinking that its just bad luck.

Edited March 31, 2022 by Ruisen.9471

[Cuks.8241]

39 minutes ago, Ruisen.9471 said:

  

Actually, now that you mention it, I can start to see where they came up with the numbers for the DPS check.

If people are doing 5k on average, then with the 25% damage buff from DE that puts people up to 6k DPS average.   The fight is designed around burning the boss during exposed phase and after wisp phase, so adding in the 30% DPS from exposed, and you'd expect people to be doing 7-8k DPS during the DPS phases of the fight (even more for condi since its 100% condi increase), using the same gear they were doing 5k DPS on octovines.

That means, if they can guarantee that the boss will stay put during exposed, and not have a CC bar right after it moves, as well as adding in 1-2 additional CC bar phases (an open world group should be allowed to fail CC 1-2 times out of 4 or 5), that should push up success rates.

 Failure of CC phase should also be more telegraphed and be obvious to everyone, so that people know its the CC and have something to learn from next time, instead of just thinking that its just bad luck.

Yeah, written something similar in the past. The DPS check is actually quite sensible. 7k on the burn phases with buffs is what can be expected from a random OW squad. I dont think they should tackle that. Yeah groups might fail above average compared to other metas but its also a nice rush for players when completed when there is some risk involved.

The problems are elsewhere. Meta is to long, people just wont learn the fight because you just cant repeat a 1.5 - 2 h meta every time you feel like it.  Just give all the buff stacks during the pre-events. They did a step towards it, now just finish the job. Or make it increase dmg linearly. There is really no need to force players to grind the same events over and over to be able to participate. And just remove the map preparation. Add those 5 % in the pre-events also. And shorten the pre-event chain by removing the Quell the void corruption events. We are all tired of this same old event all the time already.

CC phases should be guaranteed. Tail should appear predictably and not close to phase transition. You tell everyone LOOK FOR THE TAIL and then they go for the tail 2 % before phase transition and they get yelled upon, YOU FAILED CUZ YOU WENT FOR THE TAIL 😄 Or just make tail dmg count towards Soo Won hp.

Groups rely to much on EMPs. I cant imagine how to convince randoms to CC properly, especially on whirlpools. Give a special action to all players during the fight that acts the same as the emp. 

Potentially just remove Thornhearths. Or at least reduce the spawn to 1 for the last phase. Those are the silent killers. Potentially reduce trash and whirlpools for the last phase just for visual clarity's sake.

[Gorem.8104]

54 minutes ago, Cuks.8241 said:

Yeah, written something similar in the past. The DPS check is actually quite sensible. 7k on the burn phases with buffs is what can be expected from a random OW squad. I dont think they should tackle that. Yeah groups might fail above average compared to other metas but its also a nice rush for players when completed when there is some risk involved.

The problems are elsewhere. Meta is to long, people just wont learn the fight because you just cant repeat a 1.5 - 2 h meta every time you feel like it.  Just give all the buff stacks during the pre-events. They did a step towards it, now just finish the job. Or make it increase dmg linearly. There is really no need to force players to grind the same events over and over to be able to participate. And just remove the map preparation. Add those 5 % in the pre-events also. And shorten the pre-event chain by removing the Quell the void corruption events. We are all tired of this same old event all the time already.

CC phases should be guaranteed. Tail should appear predictably and not close to phase transition. You tell everyone LOOK FOR THE TAIL and then they go for the tail 2 % before phase transition and they get yelled upon, YOU FAILED CUZ YOU WENT FOR THE TAIL 😄 Or just make tail dmg count towards Soo Won hp.

Groups rely to much on EMPs. I cant imagine how to convince randoms to CC properly, especially on whirlpools. Give a special action to all players during the fight that acts the same as the emp. 

Potentially just remove Thornhearths. Or at least reduce the spawn to 1 for the last phase. Those are the silent killers. Potentially reduce trash and whirlpools for the last phase just for visual clarity's sake.

 

It makes me wonder what Dragonstand would be like if, when the zone wipes and meta restarts, you instead don't start back into the meta, but start with an hour timer to do events all across the zone that have to be done all across the zone before you are allowed to attempt to start the meta's escorts. 
If they just removed the entire event requirement beforehand and just had the meta be escorts + boss fight, it'd be SO much better. And def for sure remove the requirement of needing EMP to be able to break the bars. It would though be better if the action key had more slots, so we'd at least keep it during the fight and not have to refresh it every time a phase change happens if you do wisps. But you can tell its been designed around 50 people emp'ing. Especially after Dragonstand and how people CC that boss faster then people want it to be cc'd. 

[Ruisen.9471]

4 hours ago, Gorem.8104 said:

 

It makes me wonder what Dragonstand would be like if, when the zone wipes and meta restarts, you instead don't start back into the meta, but start with an hour timer to do events all across the zone that have to be done all across the zone before you are allowed to attempt to start the meta's escorts. 
If they just removed the entire event requirement beforehand and just had the meta be escorts + boss fight, it'd be SO much better. And def for sure remove the requirement of needing EMP to be able to break the bars. It would though be better if the action key had more slots, so we'd at least keep it during the fight and not have to refresh it every time a phase change happens if you do wisps. But you can tell its been designed around 50 people emp'ing. Especially after Dragonstand and how people CC that boss faster then people want it to be cc'd. 

I don't think EMP is really the issue though.   EMP isn't actually better then the CC skills that most classes have access to.  But without EMP it would be impossible to get a big group to do CC since most people probably don't know what their CC skills are.  Trying to force people to know what their CC skills are is probably not a good hill to die on.

Edited April 1, 2022 by Ruisen.9471

[Gorem.8104]

34 minutes ago, Ruisen.9471 said:

I don't think EMP is really the issue though.   EMP isn't actually better then the CC skills that most classes have access to.  But without EMP it would be impossible to get a big group to do CC since most people probably don't know what their CC skills are.  Trying to force people to know what their CC skills are is probably not a good hill to die on.

I woof woof agree woof! 

[InfamousMrMike.4768]

I've been trying to do this meta so I can get my turtle egg. I'm very upset because the event takes about an hour to do. My most recent attempt I was 40 minutes into the event, and we got the map is going to close in an hour pop-up because there aren't enough people on the map. So then the remaining players left the map, and the event fails. So I click the teleport to new map button upset because the last 40 minutes were a complete waist and I get stuck on the area loading screen for ~10 minutes before the game gets stuck on a white screen. I had to then close the game and reopen it. 

 

This meta-event is ridiculously difficult and time consuming. My partner and I guy stuck on separate maps the first time we participated in the event, he was put on an overflow map, and his event succeeded the first time he did the event. This is my 3rd attempt at trying to do it, I've spent over 3 hours trying to do this event, and every time the event fails.

 

I just want my turtle egg, and I don't have enough of the "Writ of dragon's end" items to buy one from the vendor. This is just to get the turtle egg so I can start the collections for the turtle mount. Then I have to do multiple collections before I even get the turtle mount. I can't even start on the collections because I keep having to grind this ridiculous meta event that never seems to succeed when I do it. I have other things in this game that I need/want to grind on other than this stupid meta. Why can't arena net manage to scale the map for the meta correctly so there are enough players on the map to succeed at doing the event.

Don't even get me started on how insane the "jumping puzzle" phase of the meta is. It is probably the worst possible event I've experienced in GW2, and once I get my turtle egg I have absolutely no intention of ever doing this meta again, I don't care what the incentives are to do it. This event IS NOT FUN! I don't enjoy doing it, I honestly don't think anyone does. People just tolerate it to get their turtle egg or help other players get their turtle eggs.

[NumNums.7935]

The good news about this meta is enough of your friends will quit from frustration that you can ask to use their accounts for login rewards 🙂 jk.

 

No my issue with it is the escort part is much to easy and should be significantly harder to better align with the difficulty of the final fight. That way you can fail faster if the maps commander/ players are not ready for the fight.

 

I also think anet needs to just nerf all classes to about 45% overall damage output across the whole game and make monsters hit 3x harder. That way players even in core game leveling their first level 80 understand that this game is actually elden ring.

[NumNums.7935]

Or anet could just make it so the meta always wins with dynamic scaling based on meta performance and also have that scaling tied to the reward.

 

This means goes harder for good groups and more rewards. Goes softer for bad groups and less rewards. Then remove or extend the hard enrage timer out by a lot.

[Malus.2184]

The RNG of this fight still needs to be looked at.

With a squad of average players that I organised well we still failed solely because the average of two Break Bars both happened when she was at respectively 61% and 41% so we lost out on a lot of bonus damage time.

To make it even more insulting she headed into a new phase almost immediately after we broke her Defiance bar, meaning that we had to spend time on Break Bars for nothing. 

I've no qualms with failing due to massive inability, that just means I have to improve, however, failing due to RNG is essentially failing because the game decided to make you fail "just because." It creates an incredibly bad experience and has retroactively tainted evey other meta event for me, and I actively avoid DE to avoid losing my enjoyment of the game since with the other  meta events I know that failure is a result of low player ability. With DE you need high player ability to mitigate the RNG and that just feels really bad, and will create a lasting negative impact on new players. As ANet said in their statement, "you only get to launch on Steam once," and if this is what new players encounter they'll see it once and decide that their precious time is better spent somewhere else.

My suggestion is that when Soo-Won reaches below certain health tresholds then Defiance is unable to be chosen as an RGN mechanic until after she's phased.

 

I would also suggest as a minor thing that the interaction between Soo-Won and the tail is increased. Right it's mechanically essentially just an orb of Void Energy that's always opposite to her head that buffs her while it's alive. Make it so that killing it removes some health from Soo-Won so it works as a reward for killing it rather than a punishment for ignoring it.

Also make the remaining time on Exposed affect the tail since if you get a tail while Exposed is up it's wasted since you have to kill the tail. I'm okay with her health being increased to compensate, just make thge two more interactable with each other since currently the mechanic makes no ludo-narrative sense.

Edited April 1, 2022 by Malus.2184

[Zok.4956]

20 minutes ago, Malus.2184 said:

With a squad of average players that I organised well we still failed solely because the average of two Break Bars both happened when she was at respectively 61% and 41% so we lost out of a lot of bonus damage time.

To make it even more insulting she headed into a new phase almost immediately after we broke her Defiance bar, meaning that we had to spend time on Break Bars for nothing.

I see this happening, too. If this happens and you have a squad with good DPS it is often better/faster to just ignore the breakbar and push/DPS Soo-Won into the next phase. And of course someone should explain to players/squad before the fight that this can happen, or a lot of players will waste their CCs.

[Malus.2184]

5 minutes ago, Zok.4956 said:

I see this happening, too. If this happens and you have a squad with good DPS it is often better/faster to just ignore the breakbar and push/DPS Soo-Won into the next phase. And of course someone should explain to players/squad before the fight that this can happen, or a lot of players will waste their CCs.

In this case, the reduced damage meant that it would have taken roughly the same amount of time. And even if we did that the practical effect still had been the same since the Break Bar mechanic used in the RNG and the additional damage from it is still wasted. She never starts after with the Break Bar intact. If you fail to break it in X time w´then it's gone. What you're expressing in what you're saying is that if the squad had above average skill then we could have mitigated it. There's a reason it's average instead of median.

Please stop implying that others have no idea what to do since it essentially means you do apologia for bad game mechanics that should never had been implemented in the first place.

Edited April 1, 2022 by Malus.2184

[Zok.4956]

2 minutes ago, Malus.2184 said:

Please stop implying that others have no idea what to do since it essentially means you do apologia for bad game mechanics that should never had been implemented in the first place.

I am sorry if I hurt your pride in any way. I was neither implying nor apologizing anything but just giving a work around for some bad/buggy game mechanics.

[Malus.2184]

14 minutes ago, Zok.4956 said:

I am sorry if I hurt your pride in any way. I was neither implying nor apologizing anything but just giving a work around for some bad/buggy game mechanics.

Accepted and there would be no work around in this case. The bonus damage was lost  and as a reult the timer ran out. If we had failed on 1% what you said might had been applicable, however, we failed at 3-4%, and at that point, it's the lost additional damage that made the difference.

Edited April 1, 2022 by Malus.2184

[Mickey.4207]

15 hours ago, Zok.4956 said:

Today, repeatedly, the CC-phase was at the same time as the tail-phase, shortly the after tail-phase started. Is this a new "improvement" to make the fight more challenging or was I just lucky not experiencing this before?

 

I am so glad I got my kill and the mastery points i needed. I am never touching this meta ever again. Feel sorry for everyone else who wasn't as lucky as me to get a pre made organised group and good RNG.