Rate the New Specs

[Downstate.4697]

This is my opinion based on my experience so far. Would love to hear what everyone else rates them.

Harbinger-A tier

It has great damage, but their is counter play. The damage in shroud needs to be toned down. 

Vindicator-S tier

Its strong in any role you build for. 100% needs a nerf.

Catalyst-C tier

Its viable up to gold. Lack of cleanse options forces you to build into fire or water. The jade sphere adds almost nothing. Hammer needs buffs, traits need a rework. It could prob go up to A tier if celestial stats were in pvp.

Virtuoso-D tier

Still havent met one I was threatened by. They have some potential as a duelist and team fighter though they are far too slow and the only viable builds are using blink and staff. Its one of those specs you wish had superspeed.

Bladesworn-A tier

The first warrior build where I didnt feel the need to run fast hands. Its ability to sustain with might and ammo skills makes it a good all rounder. You can take vigourous shouts for solo play and phalanx strength for ATs and casually give your team 25 might from 1 shout or everytime you fully charge dragon trigger. The biggest thing holding it back is its gun saber. With the appropriate changes to that I would put it as S tier.

Untamed- unknown

It is good at keeping enemies in place and may have potential as a duelist. I have far too little data playing with and against to make an assessment.

Willbender-B tier

The sc/x and sw/sw builds showing up have potential as dps but it lacks the same burst as a herald and offhand sword still feels a bit clunky to use.

Mechanist-S tier

Just avoid damage and watch your enemies die. Will be a meta side noder and honestly needs mechanical changes.

Spectre-S tier

A solid support and a solid dps. Might need some shaves. Will prob see meta play

 

[agrippastrilemma.8741]

Pretty decent assessment

[Multicolorhipster.9751]

Tbh a lot of the new specs feel weak and overly balanced to me. 

I wouldn't put any of them in S-tier if there wasn't such a big power gap between what is good and what is bad because the weak elite specs are more noticeably bad and more 'fine'-tuned. 

This isn't like PoF or HoT where everything or nearly everything is OP from the get-go. 

 

S-tier: Harbinger/Vindicator | AKA damage and healing where it should be. 

A-tier: Spectre | Solid support class with good burst damage that gives thief players an option outside of just being a belligerent decap bot.

B-Tier: Mechanist | Definitely not S-tier i'd say, but decent. The mech does damage comparable to Holosmith, suffers from being an AI, and reduces your sustain well below what Holo and Scrapper are capable of.

C/B-Tier: Untamed | Represented by C/B-Tier for being Completely Barren. My analysis is that after years of consistent nerfs the entire Guild Wars 2 PvP community has become Tame and therefore are immediately put off from playing Untamed. I've seen very few times and played it even less.

C-Tier: Willbender | Like DH in role, but weaker than DH in pretty much every area other than mobility.

D-Tier: Catalyst/Virtuoso | I don't know what Catalyst is meant to be. If it was supposed to be a return to cele ele, it didn't really make the cut. Very weak, pls buff. Virtuoso I will also put in D-tier for being the most fun Mesmer spec to duel. When you're actually having fun fighting a Mesmer, something has gone very wrong.

F-Tier: Bladesworn | Because i'm a warrior main.

Just kidding. Bladesworn I would probably put in C or D tier. Shout support with reload doesn't work because no matter how much healing power you put into your build, each shout is probably going to heal like 1k and any boon you grant could just as easily be removed in PvP.

The power coefficients for Dragon Trigger and Gunsaber skills are also way too low. A skill that roots you in place and requires you to sit still for 2 seconds to get full value out of should do more damage than most weapon skills. Not less damage than most weapon skills as it does now. It would only make C-tier because it makes for a surprisingly good bunker with MMR, and that's a really boring and unimpactful way to play. Spellbreaker is still 10x better at this mind you.

[Downstate.4697]

5 minutes ago, Multicolorhipster.9751 said:

The power coefficients for Dragon Trigger and Gunsaber skills are also way too low. A skill that roots you in place and requires you to sit still for 2 seconds to get full value out of should do more damage than most weapon skills. Not less damage than most weapon skills as it does now. It would only make C-tier because it makes for a surprisingly good bunker with MMR, and that's a really boring and unimpactful way to play. Spellbreaker is still 10x better at this mind you.

Dragon Trigger is weak on its own, however it is a decent heal and I was critting glassier players for about 7k with demolisher amulet. Unyielding dragon feels required to make it relevent. The shout heal isn't that good for sure. Thats why I think bladesworn is a solid team fighter/might bot. Giving allies 25 might and stunning a target for 2.5s can set up a lot for teams, especially in group play.

[agrippastrilemma.8741]

S. Vindicator, Mechanist

A. Spectre, Bladesworn, Harbinger

B. Untamed

C. Catalyst, Virtuoso, Willbender

Maybe

Edit: Moving Spectre down a spot below Vindi/Mech for now.

Edited March 10, 2022 by agrippastrilemma.8741

[CalmTheStorm.2364]

Wow, you guys must have had very different experiences than I. Every time I see a bladesworn, I think, "oh look! An easy kill!" I think I've only seen it played well once or twice, and even then by players with excellent mechanics who probably could kick kitten with any build.

[Multicolorhipster.9751]

1 hour ago, FrownyClown.8402 said:

Dragon Trigger is weak on its own, however it is a decent heal and I was critting glassier players for about 7k with demolisher amulet. Unyielding dragon feels required to make it relevent. The shout heal isn't that good for sure. Thats why I think bladesworn is a solid team fighter/might bot. Giving allies 25 might and stunning a target for 2.5s can set up a lot for teams, especially in group play.

That's why I say it can be a good bunker with Dragon Trigger + Might Makes Right. You aren't going to buff your team unless you run Tactics, which you could at the cost of Discipline.  

You can do the same thing with Spellbreaker as well, and Spellbreaker has the advantage of being Spellbreaker and not Bladesworn.

Sure, you could pop off a 2.5s stun with Bladesworn, but Spellbreaker can have more CC uptime overall having access to 2 weapons. Full Counter daze lasts half as long as fully charged DT stun, but only requires the pressing of a single button versus the big brain 107 IQ Bladesworn who has to do thrice the work to get the same value.

[oscuro.9720]

I’d argue Blade is B tier, and would be A with small uncreases to the nunbers on Gunsaber. The sustain is pretty decent, but it has very little ability to finish an opponent.

A large part of that is because gunsaber skills are under tuned imo. Blooming fire literally hits less than 1k  sometimes.

A bit more damage on DT would obviously be nice when you compare it’s investment cost compared to, say, voracious arc or eternity’s requiem. However, I don’t think that the damage of DT is what’s holding it back. As I said, I think the low numbers across Gun Saber skills are preventing it from having much finishing power. 

I am a warrior main though, so 100% could be biased. This is just what I’ve found personally. 

Edited March 6, 2022 by oscuro.9720

[frareanselm.1925]

I've still haven't fought against all the new e-specs, but I have to say Spectre is totally broken and needs a little nerf, in expert hands can be unkillable, and the amount of barrier and support he brings to allies is excessive because he has stealth too. 

[Bardock.4718]

Anyone who says bladesworn is above c should question his honesty, the entire spec mechanic is flawed, and is just a spamfest with a weird slow attack (DT) that doesn't work good, with the rest of the kit. Gunsaber is just a stick that does nothing. Your second weaponset got rid of F1 which makes most warrior weapons awful, except maybe sword, bc F1 of sword is awful anyway. It does not compete in any class with other warrior specs. If you want to play somewhat good pvp spec play sb, pve -> berserker, allrounder ->core. 

There is nothing to this spec sadly. It's not a support spec either. For me it is just an empty spec that wanted to thrive on the idea of: "uh nice we oneshot things in pve without gear on". That's the core of the spec, which isn't even true anymore... 

We warrior players gave so much insight in all betas about bladesworn, but all in all nothing changed. This sucks. 

[Blood Red Arachnid.2493]

I'm a WvW player, so the environment for me is different.  Out of all of these specs, only three seemed to really stand out:  Vindicator, Specter, and Harbinger.  

 

[anjo.6143]

Imagine harb worse than specter and ask for shaves on specter, lol

Edited March 6, 2022 by anjo.6143

[anjo.6143]

1 hour ago, Bardock.4718 said:

Anyone who says bladesworn is above c should question his honesty, the entire spec mechanic is flawed, and is just a spamfest with a weird slow attack (DT) that doesn't work good, with the rest of the kit. Gunsaber is just a stick that does nothing. Your second weaponset got rid of F1 which makes most warrior weapons awful, except maybe sword, bc F1 of sword is awful anyway. It does not compete in any class with other warrior specs. If you want to play somewhat good pvp spec play sb, pve -> berserker, allrounder ->core. 

There is nothing to this spec sadly. It's not a support spec either. For me it is just an empty spec that wanted to thrive on the idea of: "uh nice we oneshot things in pve without gear on". That's the core of the spec, which isn't even true anymore... 

We warrior players gave so much insight in all betas about bladesworn, but all in all nothing changed. This sucks. 

 

Twitch/boycerino and l2p

[Buran.3796]

   Honestly I wouldn't rate any of them above "B".

   To be "A" or "S" they would be able to compete or replace any of the current builds that are meta in MAT, and do they?

   Would you replace core Guard as main support? Maybe with the Tempest improvements, but I don't see any of the new classes being better at team support.

   Would you replace Daredevil, Herald or Soulbeast as a +1/ roamers? 

   Do you think that Vindicator is better at teamfights than Necro or Holos?

 

   If all, most of the new specs needs serious buffs, specially at PvP.

[Spellhunter.9675]

55 minutes ago, anjo.6143 said:

Imagine harb worse than specter and ask for shaves on specter, lol

In actual competitive scenario specter is somewhat good, while harbinger is really bad. Harb is only good against people who can't coordinate to focus it or just can't dodge properly.

[anjo.6143]

2 hours ago, Spellhunter.9675 said:

In actual competitive scenario specter is somewhat good, while harbinger is really bad. Harb is only good against people who can't coordinate to focus it or just can't dodge properly.

 

Jeez, lol

[anjo.6143]

2 hours ago, Buran.3796 said:

   Honestly I wouldn't rate any of them above "B".

   To be "A" or "S" they would be able to compete or replace any of the current builds that are meta in MAT, and do they?

   Would you replace core Guard as main support? Maybe with the Tempest improvements, but I don't see any of the new classes being better at team support.

   Would you replace Daredevil, Herald or Soulbeast as a +1/ roamers? 

   Do you think that Vindicator is better at teamfights than Necro or Holos?

 

   If all, most of the new specs needs serious buffs, specially at PvP.

 

Vindcator is probably the best thing on the game atm, harb dmg is insanely higher than reaper, holo and herald and mech cant be killed, there u go 2 tfs and 1 new sidenoder for new meta

[Bardock.4718]

3 hours ago, anjo.6143 said:

 

Twitch/boycerino and l2p

pls give me a clip the last time i heard his opinion on it, it was a bad spec, but yeah l2p, it is kitten, no doubt about it.

[Khenzy.9348]

Bladesworn is almost there. Not being able to stow your gunsaber almost ruins its gameplay in high level play. I agree some of its skills also feel a little undertuned damage-wise. I'd also allow very slow movement during Dragon Trigger, as an accidental WASD tap during it can be devastating.

15 hours ago, agrippastrilemma.8741 said:

S. Vindicator, Spectre

A. Bladesworn, Harbinger

B. Untamed

C. Catalyst, Virtuoso, Willbender

Maybe

 

 I agree with this one although I'd put Bladesworn to B. Implement QoL as I suggested above and it's a solid A.

 

[Hromundr.3086]

Spectre is A tier. Everything else is B and lower. People cry about vindicator and harbinger a lot without seeing how easy they are to shut down. Vindicator is helpless against cc, has almost no cc of its own and its big damage skill is easy to avoid, harbinger cant survive two people focusing it. Herald and Reaper are more solid. 

[Buran.3796]

4 hours ago, anjo.6143 said:

 

Vindcator is probably the best thing on the game atm, harb dmg is insanely higher than reaper, holo and herald and mech cant be killed, there u go 2 tfs and 1 new sidenoder for new meta

   Is good at teamfights and that's all. Is not Necro good at teamfights, and has less mobility than Herald (which is also good in teamfights), which means that is  much worse as +1 and as decapper. Lacks ranged damage and has very little cc.

[anjo.6143]

5 minutes ago, Buran.3796 said:

   Is good at teamfights and that's all. Is not Necro good at teamfights, and has less mobility than Herald (which is also good in teamfights), which means that is  much worse as +1 and as decapper. Lacks ranged damage and has very little cc.

What u mean necro +1, decaper?

Lacks range damage?

Very lil cc? 

 

aight

[felix.2386]

anyone who put bladesworn higher then C, plays only low tier ranked pvp.

this spec has 0 place in any organized 5v5 high end tournament

[Hromundr.3086]

17 minutes ago, felix.2386 said:

anyone who put bladesworn higher then C, plays only low tier ranked pvp.

this spec has 0 place in any organized 5v5 high end tournament

Yep. Considering that dragon trigger skills on max charge hit around the same or lower than normal burst skills, gun offhand can only hit cc'd targets and gunsaber is garbage except for skill 3... Warrior NEVER gets love. Spellbreaker is 10 times better in pvp

Edited March 6, 2022 by Hromundr.3086

[Downstate.4697]

2 hours ago, felix.2386 said:

anyone who put bladesworn higher then C, plays only low tier ranked pvp.

this spec has 0 place in any organized 5v5 high end tournament

Whatever man. Gl with being better than everyone else.