Will ranked ever be skill based & playable again?

[ConorT.5396]

Ranked sPvP has been slowly deteriorating and dying over the last 6/7 months, the last time I felt a season of ranked was actually providing balanced matchups was prior to the removal of the mender amulet & during the scourge bunker meta.

 

I'm not actually sure that it is possible to fix this game mode and make it playable again at this point.

 

It feels like there is a circle of unbalanced matchups due to low population, causing more experienced players to leave - continuing the circle. 

 

For an example, yesterday - I was in a match (this was prime time) - where the enemy team had a player who was top-10 on the leader board while we had players in Silver. This is the level of match-making currently in sPvP. 

My question here, is that has aNet released any plans to revitalise this game mode? Is there any planned release content, incentives or fixes for the match-making? Or is this all that Guild Wars 2 ranked sPvP will ever have to offer?

[aelska.4609]

2 minutes ago, ConorT.5396 said:

My question here, is that has aNet released any plans to revitalise this game mode? Is there any planned release content, incentives or fixes for the match-making? Or is this all that Guild Wars 2 ranked sPvP will ever have to offer?

 

Nope, nothing will be done. There are strong evidences of that:

• Feb 2020 patch is still unfinished. Some traits got "temporary" 300s CD while waiting for rework, but now it seems to be permanent
• Ranked pvp league rewards are the same since 2016
• No new map since 2018
• No real balance since 2020
• No change on matchmaker since forever
• Toxicity, afking, wintrading still unpunished
• No PvP update with EoD
• No annoucements from Anet (see https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Upcoming_changes_and_features)

[ConorT.5396]

The toxic player situation is a chicken or the egg thing. 

 

I see more players acting in a toxic way, because their hard work, rating MMR & overall enjoyment of the game mode is killed because of the unbalanced match-making. 

 

I think the idea of over-punishing toxic players is a fallacy, and a bad one at that. I know quite a few experienced sPvP players who have permanently quit because they were banned for calling someone an "idiot" because they were in a P2 matchup and a player wasn't aware of basic map rotations. This is to be expected. 

 

Punishing toxicity is more like aNet allowing an illness to thrive in their game, and then throwing out people who catch the disease. 

[ConorT.5396]

I think a change of the reward system, a full rework could be beneficially. But to recover the game mode & bring it back to its previous glory I think you touched on a few good points, and aNet would need to hit all of them consecutively. 

 

• - Rework of the reward system
• - Balance the new classes (immediately)
• - Release new content in the form of maps
• - Better marketing towards competitive players

 

I am aware that most of the revenue is generated by PvE players, but the development time from aNet on the PvE side compared to the PvP side is just so obscenely unbalanced it almost does feel like they want the sPvP scene to disappear completely. 

[Khalisto.5780]

there's a really small chance on steam release

 

if they managed to keep the new ppl playing

 

otherwise it'll just dry to the point where we are now

[KeoLegend.5132]

50 minutes ago, ConorT.5396 said:

The toxic player situation is a chicken or the egg thing. 

 

I see more players acting in a toxic way, because their hard work, rating MMR & overall enjoyment of the game mode is killed because of the unbalanced match-making. 

 

I think the idea of over-punishing toxic players is a fallacy, and a bad one at that. I know quite a few experienced sPvP players who have permanently quit because they were banned for calling someone an "idiot" because they were in a P2 matchup and a player wasn't aware of basic map rotations. This is to be expected. 

 

Punishing toxicity is more like aNet allowing an illness to thrive in their game, and then throwing out people who catch the disease. 

I agree

[Paradoxoglanis.1904]

2 hours ago, aelska.4609 said:

Feb 2020 patch is still unfinished.

This is the biggest factor in understanding the state of pvp. A balance patch from over 2 years ago is still unfinished. And anet gave up trying to increase the pvp population long before that. I cant imagine new players trying pvp in its neglected state and wanting to stick with it.

[Ashgar.3024]

Is the question "will the game ever be a competitive esport?". Answer is no.

Even rating value is dodgy as this game is designed to be close to impossible to solo-carry. You must control 2 points at once at all time to outpace the enemy team gains. Just that is close to impossible to do alone.

Then you have the fact everything is normalized, unlike games like League where if you win your lane and go 3-0 with good creeps you can outscale the enemy team and hard carry your team as a reward for playing well early game.

The game is also too slow paced or easy to stall to allow hard carrying. Its not like Overwatch where a well timed Ult can delete half of the enemy team and swing the game in your favor instantly for example. 

None of these factors are necessarily bad, if the game actually had a real competitive 5v5 scene they would all be good things.

But for pure SoloQ this means there will always be a randomness factor as making up for your teamates throwing is significantly harder than in virtually any other games.

The only thing you can do to reduce these factors is duo queue, which exponentially increase your winrate due to everything i just mentioned. Not only you can cover twice as much ground, 2 coordinated players can break bunkers a lot more effectively and actually have a shot at sweeping teamfights regardless of what the other 3 players on their team are doing.

If that's not a possibility for you, take things in stride and don't worry too much about your rating. Just focus on the gameplay, which is where the game shines anyway.

 

Edited March 10, 2022 by Ashgar.3024

[agrippastrilemma.8741]

5 hours ago, ConorT.5396 said:

sPvP has been slowly deteriorating and dying over the last 6/7 months

More like the last 6/7 years

[Eddbopkins.2630]

Ranked sPvP has been slowly deteriorating and dying over the last 2 years, the last time I felt a season of ranked was actually providing balanced matchups was prior to the removal of the mender amulet & befor the Feb 2020 balance.

 

I'm not actually sure that it is possible to fix this game mode and make it playable again at this point. EoD does not have any classes or play styles I want to play. A hammer ele? Lol no thankyou. I'll play another mage like class in another game.

 

It feels like there is a circle of unbalanced matchups due to low population, causing more experienced players to leave - continuing the circle. 

Was playing for 9 Years everyday, now I haven't logged in, in weeks.

[Kuma.1503]

What I believe would need to happen:

- A proper PvP balance team 

- New content for PvP. Maps, game modes,ect.

(imagine temporary holiday themed PvP modes that you can do as an alterntive to festivals... just an example)

- Fewer nerfs. More fixes/reworks to specs, weapons, and traits that don't work.

(Fixing Staff ele would finally give ele mains what they want. A functional ranged dps spec AND a build that fulfills the mage fantasy many originally picked the class for.)

- Add a [Botting] option under the report menu, and actually ban them if they are a confirmed bot. 

- Stop making promises they can't keep.

(300 sec CDS? Damage back on some CCs?)

 

There are other things, but this alone would breath new life into the game mode.

 

Edit: I've reached 1337 posts. I cannot ruin this. Time to leave and never post again.  

 

 

Edited March 10, 2022 by Kuma.1503

[ShionKreth.1542]

8 hours ago, Kuma.1503 said:

What I believe would need to happen:

- A proper PvP balance team 

- New content for PvP. Maps, game modes,ect.

(imagine temporary holiday themed PvP modes that you can do as an alterntive to festivals... just an example)

- Fewer nerfs. More fixes/reworks to specs, weapons, and traits that don't work.

(Fixing Staff ele would finally give ele mains what they want. A functional ranged dps spec AND a build that fulfills the mage fantasy many originally picked the class for.)

- Add a [Botting] option under the report menu, and actually ban them if they are a confirmed bot. 

- Stop making promises they can't keep.

(300 sec CDS? Damage back on some CCs?)

 

There are other things, but this alone would breath new life into the game mode.

 

Edit: I've reached 1337 posts. I cannot ruin this. Time to leave and never post again.  

 

 

May you remain leet for all time. *salute*

[chokela.4823]

Hopefully people have still a lot to blame except themselves...

 

Think about it for a minute, how would u feel if the game would force you to admit that u are just below average???

[Appolaliptik.7598]

20 hours ago, aelska.4609 said:

• No change on matchmaker since forever
• Toxicity, afking, wintrading still unpunished

mijo in team with me vs boyce and masterofdisaster. mijo go afk
next day, mijo with masterofdisaster vs me, in my team has g3 player. my rating was 1650.
i think, matchmaking is fine .

only 2-3 mes and war play in 1600+, but always revs, thief, ranger and core guard. no need rebalance.

may be start change something? new enji and rev too op, i can't even decap as mesmer vs g2 enji, but i can kill another p2-3 player.
i think we will always have 3 meta class
check any mAT to find them.
i understand, than anet can't do balance for gold players, but at least do balance for mAT gamers. mesmer and war in team = losing game. core ranger, core guard and core nerco was mutch better, than PoF and HoT specs.

Edited March 11, 2022 by Appolaliptik.7598

[Rufo.3716]

I quit back in 2020 when they refused to do anything to fix sPvP.  I really honestly tried coming back to play recently and since the release of this xPac, it's been proven they don't care about PvP at all.  They seem to think they have an amazing PvE game ant that's going to make them money.  Truth is there are many other games that do PvE better and actually listen to customers.  They could have cornered the PvP market for MMOs but they decided it was to much work.  Or maybe they just weren't smart enough to figure out how to do things.  I'm thinking it's more the later.  They downsized and they kept the useless idiots who they could pay less rather than keep the people who actually knew what they were doing.

[Spellhunter.9675]

22 hours ago, aelska.4609 said:

No new map since 2018

 

22 hours ago, ConorT.5396 said:

- Release new content in the form of maps

 

15 hours ago, Kuma.1503 said:

- New content for PvP. Maps, game modes,ect.

 

Once there were gamers. Now there are content consumers.

[Hesione.9412]

22 hours ago, ConorT.5396 said:

The toxic player situation is a chicken or the egg thing. 

 

I see more players acting in a toxic way, because their hard work, rating MMR & overall enjoyment of the game mode is killed because of the unbalanced match-making. 

 

I think the idea of over-punishing toxic players is a fallacy, and a bad one at that. I know quite a few experienced sPvP players who have permanently quit because they were banned for calling someone an "idiot" because they were in a P2 matchup and a player wasn't aware of basic map rotations. This is to be expected. 

 

Punishing toxicity is more like aNet allowing an illness to thrive in their game, and then throwing out people who catch the disease. 

1. Toxic players are toxic players. There is no chicken and egg. Most players don't lose it when something doesn't go in their favour.

 

2. Anet does not "over-punish" toxic players. They're in there, day after day. I disbelieve that experienced PvP players have been banned for simply using the word "idiot".

 

3. The match-making system is broken. Today, again, I have been in matches where the winning margin exceeded 400 points. It's frustrating (if you're the losing team) and boring (if you're the winning team), and shows just how bad match-making is. However, even with margins that large, there is no call for toxicity. 

[yudrasil.9378]

Gonna be the one to say this. SPvP was never about skill and balance, it is a coinflip (if you solo q). Either you get the bad players that can not press T or die on furthest point, or enemy does. Game mode was always just horrifically bad. It is a First Person shooter game mode, not an mmorpg one.

5v5 or 10v10 deathmatch would honestly fix the entire game mode, right now I really do not understand who is working for the PvP team, but this is literally unfixable. The game mode is just bad, and will make people rq as soon as you are actually trying to win you figure out how bad the mode and the people playing it is. Even though the combat in this game is good

[Shiyo.3578]

11 hours ago, Rufo.3716 said:

I quit back in 2020 when they refused to do anything to fix sPvP.  I really honestly tried coming back to play recently and since the release of this xPac, it's been proven they don't care about PvP at all.  They seem to think they have an amazing PvE game ant that's going to make them money.  Truth is there are many other games that do PvE better and actually listen to customers.  They could have cornered the PvP market for MMOs but they decided it was to much work.  Or maybe they just weren't smart enough to figure out how to do things.  I'm thinking it's more the later.  They downsized and they kept the useless idiots who they could pay less rather than keep the people who actually knew what they were doing.

This games PvE has MASSIVELY improved with EoD and their complete abandonment of PvP and WvW. Focusing on just PvE is making it a lot better and putting this game in a much better state. What's baffling is, they keep making PvP focused elite specs like Untamed despite not supporting the modes these specs are for, so classes end up with dead, useless elites.

I hope they continue to ignore PvP and WvW as they are a lost cause at this point.

[coro.3176]

What's this? Urgent dev attention to balance issues in the game? Within a week?? Whoaaa

Honestly, if they just popped in and were like "hey, thanks for all the feedback. We're monitoring this", even if it was a total lie, I think the PvP/WvW crowd would at least feel heard.. a bit.

[Hesione.9412]

3 hours ago, DigiQWill.6378 said:

No, no... let him be!

1. It's true, based on your description of toxic players, usually, they'll start complaining when things don't go their way. If you therefor use the empathy you clearly showed thinking in their boots, you probably could understand that, after a few hours of grinding, for the sevent time this month in-between their classes, where they want to unwind in Unranked with people who care enough about a "Win" end score for the fact that you win something - I believe you could understand their anger if their team in Ranked afterwards didn't care enough to go with a plan they devised for this Ranked game.

 

All deduced from your clear empathy for these players! Me excluded. I don't really play Ranked that way anyway.

 

2. It's funny, the sole time I'll see an ANet logo in the PvP lobby is when the new expansions come out! I agree therefor, they clearly don't over punish if they barely punish at all! Glad we agree on the observations, even though our conclusions might differ.

 

3. I believe here, the matter of toxicity comes from a misrepresenation in this forum of what many may differently consider. While I agree that calling someone an idiot out of rudeness, in a private message afterwards is rather toxic, calling someone "idiot" in the way they rotated can be qualified as constructive criticism. 

 

Again, I only commented because you demonstrated so much empathy towards players who may grind just about not at the perfect golden hour to climb. They also want the teammates you've been having!

There is anger and there is toxicity. One can quite easily simply sit behind the computer swearing, weeping, whatever, and the rest of us will never know. It is a conscious decision to type toxic comments in team or map chat. Or are you suggesting that these players have no control over their own behaviour?