The line in the sand

[Zok.4956]

18 hours ago, HellsPriest.6745 said:

 Should fractals change because WvW players may not like how Fractals work? Should WvW change because PVE players don't like how it works? No.

Should open world map meta bosses change because WvW or fractal players may not like how they work? No.

[Hotride.2187]

The line in the sand is very simple - put instanced content in instances. And do not put something that will fail 9 out of 10 times (more, probably) after 1 hour 40 min of gameplay. And do not give high effort content little to no rewards.

As for buying the turtle and not feeling like you earned it... this is really funny. Earned it how exactly? Pulled your weight in a 50 player squad? Good job, good job, amazing work. The meta failed anyway. Or earned as in, put enough hours in to get it? How many hours is enough then? 20? 40? 100? When do I feel like "I earned it" instead of "I lucked out" because I have no control over who is in the group (I am not a commander / have no wish to be one;  I don't have a stack of LI - if I wanted to raid I would be playing a game with quality raid content)?

Edited March 12, 2022 by Hotride.2187

[nutri.1385]

Yet another thread about the same topic, again setting borders between so called toxic elitists with superiority complex and so called casuals/whiners/roleplayers/fashionists/one-button-smashers or something. 

We're talking about a meta, where dps required per person is max 10 k. It's nothing close to what raids or strikes require. Sure, there are mechanics to learn, but everyone can do it. If they want to or not, it's a different question. They can fail regardless due to RNG. Is it really something to be boastful about? The people who I admire here are the super patient commies and creators, who teach people about the mechanics, despite the crowd being hopeless sometimes. 

The reason for the whole problem is unfortunate design of the event and the way the mount is acquired. Most people agree on it (even Anet does, they're going to change it and monitor the situation for the future), but we still see people insulting or blaming everyone else, including the devs, and claiming super loudly that they will just drop the game (either because of the elitists or the casuals). I mean, if someone really feels so bad about it, they can really move on. It's just a game, and it's not their first disappointment in life, nor it will be the last. 

Edited March 12, 2022 by nutri.1385

[Gibson.4036]

The next open world meta should require some form of PvP.

And so should the next expansion defining feature. As well as a really challenging, no portals allowed, jumping puzzle.

Edited March 12, 2022 by Gibson.4036

[Tails.9372]

1 hour ago, Gibson.4036 said:

The next open world meta should require some form of PvP.

Nah, the next meta boss is a fight while also having to deal with a Mad King's Clock Tower esque jumping puzzle. The PvP fight is for a future fractal once they get the 25 full where T4 players get queued up against Platinum ranked sPvP players.

Edited March 12, 2022 by Tails.9372

[captrowdy.9561]

This brings up a good point. Please put legandary fish that’s only available in WvW

[Saelgash.7014]

5 hours ago, captrowdy.9561 said:

This brings up a good point. Please put legandary fish that’s only available in WvW

+1 . While at it . Add a collection item on top of chalice of tears too. 

[battledrone.8315]

5 hours ago, captrowdy.9561 said:

This brings up a good point. Please put legandary fish that’s only available in WvW

could you make the fish admiral ackbars brother or something?  i always hated that guy

[IndigoSundown.5419]

Here's how this works.

 

a) Players who play MMO's are doing it for fun, and for many (or most) that fun includes getting (desirable) stuff offered by the developers.
b) There are different types of players.  Two broad generalizations are "relaxation" players and "adrenaline rush" players.  These two types of players have a fundamentally different approach to playing. The reasons for playing for the former group are the opposite of the reasons for playing of the latter group.  This means that these two groups have very different ideas about what constitutes  fun.

c) Many (probably most) of the players in both groups want "stuff."

 

d) Developers use that "stuff" to provide an incentive for players to engage with content.

e) Developers also have to provide content that appeals to a broad spectrum of player types, including the two groups mentioned  above.

f) While the different groups may not like the same types of content, that does not mean they don't both want the same stuff.

 

g) Both groups have a feeling of entitlement about getting the stuff.  One is based on, "I did harder content X."  Having X may, for these people, provide a sense of prestige.  The other is based on, "I paid for the XPac and want access to its features."

h) Not liking specific content  does not mean, "Wanting stuff without effort" (or whatever other derogatory motivation you care to apply to such people). It just means, "I want to do something else to get X."

 

Seeing the problem yet?  It's not something either you or ANet are going to be able to "fix."  Keep trying, though, if it floats your skiff. 😝

Edited March 13, 2022 by IndigoSundown.5419

[Savoren.3910]

13 hours ago, Gibson.4036 said:

The next open world meta should require some form of PvP.

And so should the next expansion defining feature. As well as a really challenging, no portals allowed, jumping puzzle.

 

It should require capturing SM solo, also as soon as any of the guards at SM aggro another player you are disqualified and need to try again.

[kharmin.7683]

16 hours ago, Gibson.4036 said:

The next open world meta should require some form of PvP.

And so should the next expansion defining feature. As well as a really challenging, no portals allowed, jumping puzzle.

Hard no.  There already exists a mode for PvP.  No need to inject that into open world PvE.  Please use the forums search feature to find the previous PvP in OW threads to understand the push-back against this concept.  😉

[Gibson.4036]

9 minutes ago, kharmin.7683 said:

Hard no.  There already exists a mode for PvP.  No need to inject that into open world PvE.  Please use the forums search feature to find the previous PvP in OW threads to understand the push-back against this concept.  😉

Aw, but players who love every part of the game should have the chance to sing those timeless refrains, “If You Want the Rewards You Got To Do the Work,” “It’s Not as Bad as X,” “ArenaNet Just Wants Players to Try It” and that perennial classic, “Whiners Just Want Everything Handed to Them On a Silver Platter.”

 

[battledrone.8315]

51 minutes ago, Gibson.4036 said:

Aw, but players who love every part of the game should have the chance to sing those timeless refrains, “If You Want the Rewards You Got To Do the Work,” “It’s Not as Bad as X,” “ArenaNet Just Wants Players to Try It” and that perennial classic, “Whiners Just Want Everything Handed to Them On a Silver Platter.”

 

you forgot the classic"its an older game now....". 

[SexyMofo.8923]

At least in pvp I can afk.  I actually have to play this meta. 

[Gibson.4036]

14 minutes ago, SexyMofo.8923 said:

At least in pvp I can afk.  I actually have to play this meta. 

I think you’re missing the true vision here. The next big meta, which will require PvP, will also require your team to win to unlock the new core mechanic. You will also need personally to reach a threshold of enemy player kills.

[Bast.7253]

On 3/11/2022 at 2:40 AM, Hollowhisper.1093 said:

Whether intended or not, your post is riddled with polarisation, generalisation and accusations, which doesn't exactly make it a strong post.

And hypocrisy really. Insists that people don't know what game they're playing or people treating the game as somekind of fashion simulator but then wants a unique skin showing his snowflake-dom for getting the mount from the meta instead of purchasing it from the gemstore. 

I have the mount now and I have no desire to see other people be shamed for trading in writs for the mount. It really doesn't tie into the story anyway because it isn't a saltspray mount, it's a siege turtle. 

In my opinion the mount shouldn't have been tied to the meta to begin with. Just imagine how fun it would have been if you had rushed to get the turtle and then used it during the meta fight for the first time? What would that experience have been like?

The beauty of this game is its ability to appeal to so many different types of players. But this meta feels like it was designed for a very specific player. 

Heart of Thorns metas have always been top-notch in the game, but their time limits give breathing room and the mechanics are more or less working together, not getting transported into a wisp with a hard to see endurance bar and little explanation anywhere else in the story in regards to this specific mechanic. It feels thrown in to make the fight more interesting but really doesn't have a place, even if they throw some text on it like "Memory of Eir" to make it seem like it has some cohesion. 

The wisp part of this fight really should have just been a set time and the memories should be a stacking damage modifier that increases with memories you collect. You can still jump up to the platform if you don't want to die, but even if you do die if you collect more memories you have personally contributed to the fight in a beneficial way. And the good thing is, even if it's just a 1% or less increase to damage taken it won't allow someone to just camp memories and make the boss easy. 

Personally I would have preferred something instead of the wisp and weird multi platform phase that feels like it should have just been thrown into ONE phase with champs on each platform that need to be killed to get back to the main fight with Soo Won. Having us enter some "void dimension" or something similar to how we did with Kralk in the personal story, or the fight with the Wisper of Jormag might have made a little more sense. 

 

[Hollowhisper.1093]

I agree that the phases with the two dudes on green platforms are basically a time sink and don't even add anything coherent to the fight. They are just (literally) standalone bosses designed to prolong the fight and make people fly around, because it was cool in Dragon's Stand.

[Malus.2184]

 

On 3/11/2022 at 8:31 AM, HellsPriest.6745 said:

To anyone who feels content is too hard or too long or too expensive or whatever. I bid you to figure out what game you are playing and why.

 

This is the Zone of Proximal Development (ZPD) (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zone_of_proximal_development)). The explanation of how it works proves you objectively wrong. 

On a difficulty scale of 1-100 if the ZPD was followed the Aetherblade would be 30, Kaining Blackout would be 50, Echowald Gang War would be 70, and Dragon's End would be 100. The reality is that all the other metas are 30 and Dragon's End is 100. This, as explained in the ZPD, makes the jump in difficulty for the average player to be outside of their ZPD, as a result people are getting frustrated.

Your opinion is subjectively correct and what you support it with is objectively wrong.

Edited March 13, 2022 by Malus.2184

[Hollowhisper.1093]

That's nice, I never heard of a ZPD before but it makes sense. I work in education and can use it for my job I guess, so thank you. 😀

[Astralporing.1957]

11 hours ago, kharmin.7683 said:

Hard no.  There already exists a mode for PvP.  No need to inject that into open world PvE.

Yes. Precisely. Notice how this argument works equally well if you exchange "PvP" for "Raids".

[Knighthonor.4061]

Elitists topic

[Astralporing.1957]

On 3/11/2022 at 10:24 PM, Einsof.1457 said:

I don't see people complaining that single player RPGs need more MMO content. Why is it the other way around, I wonder? Why don't MMO players want more...MMO? Ya know...since they are playing *supposedly* an MMO?

Probably for the same reason most people don't ask for (very much lacking) more roleplaying in a supposedly MMORPG game. And why only a small number of players ask for Guild battles in a game called Guild Wars.

Edited March 13, 2022 by Astralporing.1957

[Einsof.1457]

1 minute ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

Probably for the same reason most people don't ask for (very much lacking) more roleplaying in a supposedly MMORPG game.

What are you playing if not a role, exactly?

[Astralporing.1957]

1 minute ago, Einsof.1457 said:

What are you playing if not a role, exactly?

A game.

[Einsof.1457]

7 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

A game.

Yeah that's what the G stands for.