Vindicator is there to teach PvPers to cc after a dodge.

[youle.5824]

I am a revenant main (Herald) currently playing Vindi since it came out. I might be the player with the most ranked game on it, bit over 300 with both my accounts combined. I won't defend the that Vindi doesnt have broken skills, because tree song, heal dodge and gs5 are clearly. BUT!!!! Whenever I end up vs Vindi, no matter the class I'm on it's usually very winnable.  Unless you are cced you should never get hit by gs5, the animation is super slow (just don't try to port out of range, buggy kitten) and the dodge is the easiest thing to cc at the end there is a timeframe where vindi can't chain with another evade or block. Like sword 3 but easier, basically this is perfect for every PvP player to practice landing CC or burst at the right moment. Small example, you can cast gs5 when they start dodging and when they land from dodge they are right in the aoe of death.  

I hope Vindicator gets nerfed cause it has broken skills but I think PvP community need to first check what they can do to win vs Vindi first before crying for nerfs. 

[Tulkas.2576]

I agree. When you are 1v1 Vindi vs Vindi it becomes this weird mind game of who’s going to need to dodge first because dodging makes you so vulnerable afterwards. 
Legend swap doesn’t proc sigils anymore and Vindi’s F2 has a cast time as well, so while we can dodge twice in a row sometimes, there’s definitely a delay there and it’s not as often as people would think. 

Of course the 3 abilities you mentioned need to be toned down as well. 
GS5 needs to be more avoidable or do less damage. 
Barrier/Heal needs to come down a fair amount. 
Tree song needs to cost way more energy or lose some of its features. It does too much, too well for too little if a cost.

[agrippastrilemma.8741]

2 hours ago, youle.5824 said:

I am a revenant main (Herald) currently playing Vindi since it came out.

sounds unbiased

[youle.5824]

40 minutes ago, agrippastrilemma.8741 said:

sounds unbiased

Sounds like I know the spec more then people crying everywhere without actually learning how it works to counter it. On spellbreaker you can easily 100-0 a Vindicator at equal skill level btw , but community prefer to just complain to anet.

[youle.5824]

55 minutes ago, agrippastrilemma.8741 said:

sounds unbiased

 

And I already said I want Vindicator nerfed since I am a 'herald' main, not rene, not core, not vindi. So no I am not biased, I am just pointing out that 90% of the complains is a l2p issue.

[vilesoldier.9826]

4 hours ago, youle.5824 said:

I am a revenant main (Herald) currently playing Vindi since it came out. I might be the player with the most ranked game on it, bit over 300 with both my accounts combined. I won't defend the that Vindi doesnt have broken skills, because tree song, heal dodge and gs5 are clearly. BUT!!!! Whenever I end up vs Vindi, no matter the class I'm on it's usually very winnable.  Unless you are cced you should never get hit by gs5, the animation is super slow (just don't try to port out of range, buggy kitten) and the dodge is the easiest thing to cc at the end there is a timeframe where vindi can't chain with another evade or block. Like sword 3 but easier, basically this is perfect for every PvP player to practice landing CC or burst at the right moment. Small example, you can cast gs5 when they start dodging and when they land from dodge they are right in the aoe of death.  

I hope Vindicator gets nerfed cause it has broken skills but I think PvP community need to first check what they can do to win vs Vindi first before crying for nerfs. 

indeed this is a nice thought and everything, but as you've already pointed out; even when punished, a Vind currently has the sustain to just outheal it (tree song + heal dodge).

So what ends up happening is you do a good job at first avoiding gs5, but the fights drag on enough that others come in, cc you (or use their own "must-dodge" skills), and you eat the gs5 dmg anyway, along with all its other hard-hitting skills.

god forbid there's more than one too. good luck with that.

Edited March 11, 2022 by GeneralBM.5781

[Paradoxoglanis.1904]

If they nerf the GM traits and some part of GS 5 then vindi would be easy to counter. As of now the dodge heals them for 6k or does 8k damage, and GS 5 is just overtuned in every way (compare it to meteor shower lol)

[ArthurDent.9538]

30 minutes ago, Paradoxoglanis.1904 said:

If they nerf the GM traits and some part of GS 5 then vindi would be easy to counter. As of now the dodge heals them for 6k or does 8k damage, and GS 5 is just overtuned in every way (compare it to meteor shower lol)

There's a lot to be said about vindicator but complaining that eternity's requiem is better than meteor show is dumb, meteor shower is not a strong skill in pvp and never has been. Staff ele has litterally never been top tier viable aside from a few stints as a low damage heal and aoe cc build. Its just like all the calls to give infuse light a cast time and "bring it inline" with defiant stance when defiant stance has always been trash despite having significant advantages over infuse light. Eternity's requiem will inevitably get toned down but it should still hit extremely hard, the telegraph is massive and can't be hidden by stealth or instant ports and rev doesn't have great cc options to set it up other than jalis taunt. Vindi gs has relatively little utility for a two hander weapon so high damage is justified especially how slow and telegraphed it is.

[Hellz.3058]

Agreed

[Master Ketsu.4569]

Yep. The shiro version of Vindicator that most people are playing is very easy to outplay 1v1, and hard loses to every other Revenant build ( Renegade, herald, EVEN CORE REV ) assuming both players are good. Gets dunked by other duelist specs and most roamer specs as long as you understand how to burst after the 1 dodge. Jalis Vind is strong 1v1 but of course you are then losing shiro on a roamer build which is no bueno.

What's broken on Vind comes entirely to its teamfight. 6k heal to your entire team every dodge LMAO. Instant kill button that while easy to dodge in a duel, is basically free gigadamage at the midfight LMAO.

Vind is definitely overtuned, it's just not the God of PvP people think it is. You can tell who the unskilled players are because they complain more about GS5 than they do about Saints shield. GS5 is only slightly overtuned. Saints shield is 120% gamebreaking and should actually see an entire rework, not just a nerf.

 

 

 

 

Edited March 11, 2022 by Master Ketsu.4569

[Telgum.6071]

Precisely for these reasons I don't see that reasonable to nerf Vindicator. Both the dodge frame and GS#5 are the most obvious skills of the entire Revenant kit, even more obvious than Shiro's elite or staff #5. Not to mention how slow the greatsword is for an assassin-like character.

For these nerfs to happen it should have the regular two dodges, even if keeping the current mechanic. Right now Vindicator only has burst and healing.

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

Guys, people aren't complaining about Vindicator in 1v1s.

The complaints are rooted in team fights where Saint Zu Heltzer is tossing out 6200+ worth of party health/barrier per 9s with dodge rolling. About GS#5, they are complaining about when it is not easy to dodge in team fights, when people do coordianted bursting and someone pins you down with CC while the Vindicator lands GS#5. When you start going p2+ this is a pretty standard thing that happens all of the time, coordinated bursting.

Vindicator is way way too strong in team fights. It isn't slightly overperforming, it is overperforming in gross ways.

Also, let's stop the idea that "Just dodge GS#5 and everything will be ok" because Vindicator has massive damage across all of its weapon skills. The GS#2 on Vindicator actually has higher base damage and higher coefficient gains than Ranger Maul, and then of course it also has Shiro and good old Sword/Sword along with the new Vindicator Greatsword attacks. Even if GS#5 were disabled entirely, the Vindicator is still pumping out huge damage along with that 6200+ party heal every 9s.

The numbers it's currently pumping out in both DPS potential and support potential, are insanely high in team fights.

I do agree on one thing though, in 1v1s Power Herald is still better. But in team fights, Vindicator virtually has all the presence of both a Power Herald and a Guard Support combined.

Edited March 11, 2022 by Trevor Boyer.6524

[Caedmon.6798]

9 hours ago, youle.5824 said:

I am a revenant main (Herald) currently playing Vindi since it came out. I might be the player with the most ranked game on it, bit over 300 with both my accounts combined. I won't defend the that Vindi doesnt have broken skills, because tree song, heal dodge and gs5 are clearly. BUT!!!! Whenever I end up vs Vindi, no matter the class I'm on it's usually very winnable.  Unless you are cced you should never get hit by gs5, the animation is super slow (just don't try to port out of range, buggy kitten) and the dodge is the easiest thing to cc at the end there is a timeframe where vindi can't chain with another evade or block. Like sword 3 but easier, basically this is perfect for every PvP player to practice landing CC or burst at the right moment. Small example, you can cast gs5 when they start dodging and when they land from dodge they are right in the aoe of death.  

I hope Vindicator gets nerfed cause it has broken skills but I think PvP community need to first check what they can do to win vs Vindi first before crying for nerfs. 

Remember MMR warri ? I could dodge forever and kill everything with dodging,it got nerfed,this will also get nerfed as it should.

[chokela.4823]

And I would add there is so much hate to vindi because of this :

people fought ex main prev playing vindi and says wow thats so op omggg

 

then they roll themself into rev thinking I can be such a dodger me too

 

they eventually find out that rev is way more complex than just spamming and they cant achieve vindi players performance they faced

 

Then after a brief reloh to other weird specs they faced true reality: rev players are better.

 

To all frustrated ex core nec meta wh... remember that we baited our elites before u even started pvp.

 

Its l2p issue.

[pukish.5784]

Yes It's L2P issue

[Zekent.3652]

"L2p" "Git gud"

Same words with spellbreaker, mirage and weaver on pof launch, delusional words lol.

Edited March 12, 2022 by Zizekent.2398

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

@chokela.4823 @pukish.5784

This is true with other Rev builds.

This is not true when applied to Vindicator. Right now so much DPS lies within GS5 and so much party sustain lies within Zu Heltzer dodging, that random bad Rev players "including myself" only need to worry about landing 2 actions to be effective in team fights. 1) Follow who your team is targeting and GS5 at them when that opponent is being locked down. 2) Dodge roll on top of your team mates who are being targeted by opponents.

Figure out everything else on the Vindicator build later.

Edited March 12, 2022 by Trevor Boyer.6524

[FarmBotXD.1430]

2 hours ago, Caedmon.6798 said:

Remember MMR warri ? I could dodge forever and kill everything with dodging,it got nerfed,this will also get nerfed as it should.

remember trying wizard amulet hybrid shatter mesmer.
after getting hit for 5,7k with warrior dodge and 11k from the spin I went back to playing less trolly builds.
those were the days man.

[FarmBotXD.1430]

58 minutes ago, chokela.4823 said:

And I would add there is so much hate to vindi because of this :

people fought ex main prev playing vindi and says wow thats so op omggg

 

then they roll themself into rev thinking I can be such a dodger me too

 

they eventually find out that rev is way more complex than just spamming and they cant achieve vindi players performance they faced

 

Then after a brief reloh to other weird specs they faced true reality: rev players are better.

 

To all frustrated ex core nec meta wh... remember that we baited our elites before u even started pvp.

 

Its l2p issue.

there should be a disability card on the forum stating :
I main revenant or necromancer, please be patient.

[vilesoldier.9826]

3 hours ago, chokela.4823 said:

then they roll themself into rev thinking I can be such a dodger me too

 

they eventually find out that rev is way more complex than just spamming and they cant achieve vindi players performance they faced

 

Then after a brief reloh to other weird specs they faced true reality: rev players are better.

*rev players are better*

rev players in question: still using the same "shiro heal into teleport into sw4" flowchart opener combo since 2015

 

inc prev mainS: nO I uSe ShIrO hEaL iNtO tElEpOrT iNtO sW5/sW2 ITS DIFFERENTTT

[Newholiday.8103]

Hmm

Edited March 12, 2022 by thepolishman.2348

[Newholiday.8103]

6 hours ago, GeneralBM.5781 said:

*rev players are better*

rev players in question: still using the same "shiro heal into teleport into sw4" flowchart opener combo since 2015

 

inc prev mainS: nO I uSe ShIrO hEaL iNtO tElEpOrT iNtO sW5/sW2 ITS DIFFERENTTT

 

.

Edited March 12, 2022 by thepolishman.2348

[youle.5824]

Funny how people are reacting as if I said Vindicator didn't need nerf... Funny how I played vindi since rev main but I got better winrate with zan's mech build  and way better winrate with azzardome's specter build. 

[Hotride.2187]

Lol. The spec is there to teach you to CC after a dodge, but has a unique dodge animation? What is it teaching then, what the animation of vindicator is?

[Vasdamas Anklast.1607]

Vindicator be like: run around > spam dwarf and weakness > weapon swap > kill them with a single GS5.

Not sure what's up but I had some revs recover full health with a single dodge too.