What Specs have good ranged dps options for pve and pvp?

[Twilightmage.8309]

With the new expansion out im thinking of hoping into the game again and was curious if there were more or any good ranged options nowadays. I know it isn't a common thing in this game with melee stacking being the meta but its what I like and was wondering if the new mesmer spec was like that.

[Spie.5024]

There are a few classes that have ranged options. Specifically if it’s just for open world.

if we are talking raids and fractals, the one class that comes to mind is Necro in my opinion. 
scourge and harbinger are both condi and ranged with scepter and pistol in case of harbinger. 
 

Other classes have ranged weapons but swap to a melee quite often.

 

condi soulbeast can get away with shortbow only but that gets boring fast! 

[Shiyo.3578]

3 hours ago, Spie.5024 said:

There are a few classes that have ranged options. Specifically if it’s just for open world.

if we are talking raids and fractals, the one class that comes to mind is Necro in my opinion. 
scourge and harbinger are both condi and ranged with scepter and pistol in case of harbinger. 
 

Other classes have ranged weapons but swap to a melee quite often.

 

condi soulbeast can get away with shortbow only but that gets boring fast! 

Harbringer  staying ranged severely cripples it's ability to share boons and deal damage.

[Spie.5024]

I don’t know the exact range of the boon sharing on every class but this applies even to scourge who doesn’t share a ton of boons himself. 
You still want to be in the range of other group members to receive boons.

So I just gave my opinion on what class has the best ranged weapons for end game in my opinion. 
However I agree you will still want to stack with the group! 

[Buran.3796]

Necro, Ranger, short bow Renegade, long bow Dragon Hunter, Deadeye...    There's other professions/specs that can be good ad dealing damage at range but are risky in PvP (as staff Elementalist), but the ones I name are good in both PvP and PvE played mostly as ranged fighters. Must add that the Deadeye is mostly a single target fighter, so albeit it can do well in duels and against bosses doesn't clean crodws as fast as the others can.

[Opun.3824]

Deadeye rifle(Power) have biggest ranged single target damage if im not mistaken, also Specter is ranged too mosly (Condi). 

PVE

Edited March 12, 2022 by Opun.3824

[Twilightmage.8309]

is the new virtuoso also ranged? 

[Infusion.7149]

7 minutes ago, Twilightmage.8309 said:

is the new virtuoso also ranged? 

Yes but since it's more or less all projectile it is not a strong PVP/WVW pick whatsoever.

[Spie.5024]

4 hours ago, Twilightmage.8309 said:

is the new virtuoso also ranged? 

I would also add that in PvE I’m guessing you are likely to use sword in PvE fractals or raids so that’s melee again 🙂 

[Twilightmage.8309]

12 minutes ago, Spie.5024 said:

I would also add that in PvE I’m guessing you are likely to use sword in PvE fractals or raids so that’s melee again 🙂 

yeah it seems no matter what you are gonna be melee ranged in group content for buffs.

[Zenith.7301]

On 3/11/2022 at 9:23 PM, Shiyo.3578 said:

Harbringer  staying ranged severely cripples it's ability to share boons and deal damage.

 

 

No more than a vindicator being forced off target by a mechanic, being a spec with 2 melee weapon sets.

 

Harbinger is by far the most flexible dps elite spec of the EoD bunch, followed by Specter and Virtuoso.

 

There's a reason why scourge was rather good in 100CM as well, and it wasn't just the epi. Being able to keep up DPS while having to do spread mechanics and a boss flails around (Hello Soo Won champs phase with the mage and svanir champs; hello Mai Trin strike and Minister Li strike).

[Alcatraznc.3869]

If you're looking for range my first guess would be Soulbeast and Deadeye.

[Desh.7028]

On 3/11/2022 at 11:37 PM, Spie.5024 said:

if we are talking raids and fractals

 

You mean content where you'll be rightfully kicked for not stacking in boon range?

 

On 3/11/2022 at 11:37 PM, Spie.5024 said:

condi soulbeast can get away with shortbow only but that gets boring fast! 

 

Dagger/Torch is kind of the main weapon, Shortbow mostly disappeared, Power Soulbeast with Longbow probably is a lot closer but you'll be the Ranger LB only meme in no time.

 

On 3/12/2022 at 11:08 PM, Twilightmage.8309 said:

yeah it seems no matter what you are gonna be melee ranged in group content for buffs.

 

Truly pure ranged is only Scourge and Deadeye and now Virtuoso and condi Mechanist with P/P. But even then being in range of the team for boons is crucial. The commander does not need to eat, sleep or drink water ... it's all boons instead.

But being ranged or having good ranged options can help on movement heavy encounters when it comes to DPS uptime so there is value even if the standard gameplay won't feel very ranged at all.

[Zenith.7301]

29 minutes ago, Desh.7028 said:

 

You mean content where you'll be rightfully kicked for not stacking in boon range?

 

 

Dagger/Torch is kind of the main weapon, Shortbow mostly disappeared, Power Soulbeast with Longbow probably is a lot closer but you'll be the Ranger LB only meme in no time.

 

 

Truly pure ranged is only Scourge and Deadeye and now Virtuoso and condi Mechanist with P/P. But even then being in range of the team for boons is crucial. The commander does not need to eat, sleep or drink water ... it's all boons instead.

But being ranged or having good ranged options can help on movement heavy encounters when it comes to DPS uptime so there is value even if the standard gameplay won't feel very ranged at all.

 

 

Encounter design would be so much better if they reworked boon application to not be only melee range. They could actually create multiple simultaneous mechanics for melee and ranged builds.

 

But this is Anet we're talking about. They make Blizzard look like hard workers.

[Desh.7028]

13 hours ago, Zenith.7301 said:

Encounter design would be so much better if they reworked boon application to not be only melee range.

 

I even would say quickness and alacrity as a permanent boon and not a special bonus was a massive mistake to begin with. Those tend to be the ones that force you into close range. Might and Fury often have a more generous range in comparison - which could be more generous tbh ... every boon skill range x1.5 would just add to the game.

 

.

13 hours ago, Zenith.7301 said:

They make Blizzard look like hard workers.

 

I've played WoW. Building your character is just not falling on your face when it comes to talent choices which they made nearly impossible and chasing the next tier of iLevel and then letting a gear optimizer run over it. At least while I played multiple classes were either nuts or utterly kitten for entire raid cycles.

Tanking and how encounters were started to be design in a way that the DPS could be mindless and the two tanks handle much of the mechanics was actually really fun.

[Yrch.5491]

On 3/14/2022 at 6:07 PM, Zenith.7301 said:

 

 

Encounter design would be so much better if they reworked boon application to not be only melee range. They could actually create multiple simultaneous mechanics for melee and ranged builds.

 

But this is Anet we're talking about. They make Blizzard look like hard workers.

Completely agree with this. I have always liked to play ranged, but in group content it's a big no no here, which limits builds. Doing what you said, would fix that and we would see new builds being used, which is a good thing. 

[KiteWatcher.7596]

Let's also not forget the other main reason to stick together: making your healer's job easier.  That being said, I think there's a distinction to be made across PvE in a group, PvE solo and PvP.  Here's what I know off-hand on valid ranged options:

 

PvE in Group:

You'll be in melee range most of the time, so we'll focus on builds that have a ranged option to keep doing appreciable damage when you need to move away for mechanics.

1. Revenant - On condi renegade you can camp shortbow and still do decent damage from medium range for a little bit.
2. Guardian - You can camp scepter or longbow but you really don't want to and it's not good for more than a few seconds
3. Warrior - The only meta build I can think of with a ranged option is condi berserker with longbow but really needs melee range so avoid this.
4. Engineer - Grenade kit can cover you for a short burst until you get back in melee.  Also pistols have a decent range but aren't good to camp for long periods.  I didn't mention mortar kit since I'm not aware of any meta builds that use it for group content
5. Ranger - Shortbow for condi is perfectly fine to camp.  Longbow on power is also still really good if you need to stay away for a little bit.
6. Thief - Condi Specter uses a scepter and does good damage from range.  Deadeye with rifle is all about range but is really difficult to play well as the rotation is really punishing of mistakes like needing to use the dodge for mechanics instead of just for damage
7. Mesmer - Greatsword can be ok for a little bit of ranged.  Virtuoso's daggers are really good and almost all ranged.
8. Elementalist - Staff isn't meta but is definitely ranged. Scepter allows a bit of ranged but I only see it on tempest which wants to be in melee for overloads.  Hammer on Catalyst is technically a bit ranged but probably not a good idea.
9. Necro - Others have already pointed this one out quite a bit.  Probably your best option if you want to stay ranged for more than just a few seconds.

PvE Solo:

Slap on your favorite ranged weapon and go nuts!  I'd like to call out deadeye here specifically since it works so much better when you can stay far away.

 

PvP

If you don't care about ranking and just want to have fun take whatever you want.  I have a blast in Silver 3/Gold 1 playing off-meta builds.  Some fun ranged-focused builds I've played:

1. Shortbow renegade
2. Rifle Deadeye
3. Pretty much any ranger build uses longbow these days.  I also like a shortbow/dagger+torch trapper condi build that can do good ranged damage when needed
4. Dagger Virtuoso
5. Any necro build.  Most run staff so ranged is always an option

[Mell.4873]

On 3/13/2022 at 10:55 AM, Spie.5024 said:

I would also add that in PvE I’m guessing you are likely to use sword in PvE fractals or raids so that’s melee again 🙂 

That would only apply to power variant but fractals and raids use the condi variant which is entirely ranged with dagger + dagger main hand. 

[frareanselm.1925]

Anet has the bad fixation since 2012 that ranged classes should do significantly less damage than melee. So nothing is viable except the staff condi mirage and condi renegade. 

[Infusion.7149]

27 minutes ago, frareanselm.1925 said:

Anet has the bad fixation since 2012 that ranged classes should do significantly less damage than melee. So nothing is viable except the staff condi mirage and condi renegade. 

How is that a bad thing if ranged does less damage? If ranged is as much damage as melee then there is no reason to play a melee build ever because DPS uptime on a ranged build is going to be higher whenever you need to do a mechanic. They would need to add projectile reflect to PVE or something that is biased against a subset of classes (notably scourge isn't projectile).

That's why 37K DPS scourge is extremely strong , 33K shortbow camping condi soulbeast is actually not terrible, and why even if a 35-39K condi weaver on scepter (depending on if you use fire+earth or all 4 attunements) is underwhelming on paper it is more reliable than a 40-41K condi sword weaver. Specter thief is stronger than it appears because scepter rotation is fully ranged and only shroud 4 (Eternal Night) and 5 (Mind Shock) are technically melee in the DPS rotation. Mechanist pistol with grenade kit on J-drive is also high damage at all ranges more or less. On harbinger for example you drop off damage at ranged due to the fan attacks (dark barrage) as well as doom approaches' DPS being melee range.

Condi renegade runs mace+axe unless you camp shortbow.

The moment you have power builds doing high damage at range there are built in limitations (see deadeye , power soulbeast) such as cast time , some sort of preparation or buff stacking, or self-rooting. On power virtuoso if you are far away you lose 15% from the power modifier as well as having the fan attack (bladecall) miss its added hits.

Edited April 16, 2022 by Infusion.7149

[frareanselm.1925]

13 minutes ago, Infusion.7149 said:

How is that a bad thing if ranged does less damage? If ranged is as much damage as melee then there is no reason to play a melee build ever because DPS uptime on a ranged build is going to be higher whenever you need to do a mechanic. They would need to add projectile reflect to PVE or something that is biased against a subset of classes (notably scourge isn't projectile).

That's why 37K DPS scourge is extremely strong , 33K shortbow camping condi soulbeast is actually not terrible, and why even if a 35-39K condi weaver on scepter (depending on if you use fire+earth or all 4 attunements) is underwhelming on paper it is more reliable than a 40-41K condi sword weaver. Specter thief is stronger than it appears because scepter rotation is fully ranged and only shroud 4 (Eternal Night) and 5 (Mind Shock) are technically melee in the DPS rotation. Mechanist pistol with grenade kit on J-drive is also high damage at all ranges more or less. On harbinger for example you drop off damage at ranged due to the fan attacks (dark barrage) as well as doom approaches' DPS being melee range.

Condi renegade runs mace+axe unless you camp shortbow.

The moment you have power builds doing high damage at range there are built in limitations (see deadeye , power soulbeast) such as cast time , some sort of preparation or buff stacking, or self-rooting. On power virtuoso if you are far away you lose 15% from the power modifier as well as having the fan attack (bladecall) miss its added hits.

In most mmorpgs ranged magic casters or archers hit like a train, and there is nothing bad about it. Forcing people to fight melee by nerfing ranged attacks is against build diversity.

[Infusion.7149]

4 minutes ago, frareanselm.1925 said:

In most mmorpgs ranged magic casters or archers hit like a train, and there is nothing bad about it. Forcing people to fight melee by nerfing ranged attacks is against build diversity.

There are mana limitations or cast / self-root to offset the damage as well as heavy counterplay such as reflect/shield. Damage and DPS are not the same.

Edit: anyway I already listed builds that do high ranged damage in GW2 regardless, take it or leave it. Somehow you only think staff mirage does ranged DPS.

Edited April 17, 2022 by Infusion.7149

[Puck.3697]

52 minutes ago, frareanselm.1925 said:

In most mmorpgs ranged magic casters or archers hit like a train, and there is nothing bad about it. Forcing people to fight melee by nerfing ranged attacks is against build diversity.

Such as? 

In FFXIV the ranged choices although do high damage take massive compromise to mobility. 

In WoW ironically, no they do not, melee do far more DPS, the difference is in WoW it has mechanics that require ranged and also the combat mechanics are highly punishing making melee a much harder to role to fill making ranged comps more safe.

In no game does ranged do more physical DPS then melee. However In most mmorpgs mechanics tend to create the ranged role, due to how difficult they make melee uptime comparitively. 

Also. Let's not forget ironically there are AlOT of ranged weapons used in current builds.

Soulbeast uses longbow.

Virtuoso is entirely ranged. 

Harbinger is entirely ranged

Scourge is entirely ranged

Spectre is entirely ranged. 

Mirage uses staff

Tempest uses staff

Willbender uses sceptre. 

Renegade uses shortbow. 

Rifle holosmith 

This game has weapon swap. Itd require the situation to completely reverse to make pure ranged DPS options as your asking basically no melee weapons be meta to drive use of double melee. 

Warrior and elementalist are the only 2 proffessions that lack powerful builds that use ranged weapons. 

[frareanselm.1925]

10 hours ago, Daddy.8125 said:

Such as? 

In FFXIV the ranged choices although do high damage take massive compromise to mobility. 

In WoW ironically, no they do not, melee do far more DPS, the difference is in WoW it has mechanics that require ranged and also the combat mechanics are highly punishing making melee a much harder to role to fill making ranged comps more safe.

In no game does ranged do more physical DPS then melee. However In most mmorpgs mechanics tend to create the ranged role, due to how difficult they make melee uptime comparitively. 

Also. Let's not forget ironically there are AlOT of ranged weapons used in current builds.

Soulbeast uses longbow.

Virtuoso is entirely ranged. 

Harbinger is entirely ranged

Scourge is entirely ranged

Spectre is entirely ranged. 

Mirage uses staff

Tempest uses staff

Willbender uses sceptre. 

Renegade uses shortbow. 

Rifle holosmith 

This game has weapon swap. Itd require the situation to completely reverse to make pure ranged DPS options as your asking basically no melee weapons be meta to drive use of double melee. 

Warrior and elementalist are the only 2 proffessions that lack powerful builds that use ranged weapons. 

i can't understand why you dare to call the scepter a"ranged" weapon when it doesnt allow you to stay away from the AOE's around the boss.

[Puck.3697]

26 minutes ago, frareanselm.1925 said:

i can't understand why you dare to call the scepter a"ranged" weapon when it doesnt allow you to stay away from the AOE's around the boss.

Because all of its attacks work from ranged?

The entire game doesn't allow you to stay away from the boss. The moment you run ranged you lose all boon and healing applications in PvE content. 

So I don't understand why you would bring this up as a argument. As this is extremely irrelevant as the requirement to primarily stay in melee has always existed in raids / fractals. 

Again, games built off of weapon swap, you are melee and ranged in your build. And you use that. 

Ranged weapons should do less DPS but high uptime

Melee weapons should do more DPS but have lower uptime 

That's how this is balanced in litterally every mmorpg. You are equipt with the means to be both ranged and melee simultaneously excluding warrior and elementalist who have no ranged builds. 

 

Edited April 17, 2022 by Daddy.8125