[Discussion] Catalyst Update 15.03.2022 [Merged]

[Ruffy.2835]

Hello guys,

 

i'm usually not the type of guy who is posting long forum posts or comments, but today's patch really let my mouth wide openend. And i think I'm not the only one.

 

It's about the update of the catalyst profession:

 

Elementalist

Catalyst has landed strong in group content and currently has damage-dealing potential that is higher than intended when compared against other professions. We've realized that we made a mistake with the specific durations of quickness in the catalyst's kit, as our other professions require a damage tradeoff in trait selection to bring a strong boon support role while the catalyst currently does not, leading to the catalyst dealing about a third more damage than other quickness support options. With this patch, we're tuning the catalyst to parity with other professions in damage and setting up Sphere Specialist as a strong trait choice to enable boon support builds in PvE.

Catalyst

• Deploy Jade Sphere: Cooldown increased from 5 seconds to 15 seconds in PvE, matching PvP and WvW.
• Shattering Ice: Damage coefficient reduced from 0.3 to 0.15 in PvE only.
• Relentless Fire: Damage bonus reduced from 15% to 10% in PvE only.
• Empowered Empowerment: Elemental Empowerment effectiveness increase changed from 100% to 50% in PvE only.
• Sphere Specialist: Raised the base duration increase of Jade Sphere boons from 20% to 100% in PvE only.

 

I mean, first of all, i can understand, that nerving the a quickness giving class in dps is very important, then the dmg is far overpowered.

 

But that doesn't really mean you have to complete knock the profession out due to nothingless. There were several more option to split the full dps part from the quickness one.

 

As for me, i play ele for a long time, and it is not the easiest profession to learn, also regarding the survivability.

 

And now with the catalyst i really enjoyed it again to spend time on the golem to get results over 40k, which is indeed really hard and needs a lot of practice.

 

The point is, why did they nerf it thaaat hard, why is so bad to have an actually top dps profession which is only able to do that amount of dmg when you really really understand what you're doing.

 

Just try to split the quickness option within the traits "Sphere Specialist" and "Empowered Empowerement".

 

Actually, i don't know what else to write, but the punch in the ele's face over again really hit me hard again, since other professions weren't nerved that far.

 

Just wanted to share my feelings about this, nothing more, without any shitstorm or whatever. Dunno of others are feeling as well or have own suggestions.

 

So far, see you guys o/

[Hari the Eggtart.2937]

No joke, I'm dead serious when I ask Anet this

 

Do you guys actually hate ele

[Strider Pj.2193]

2 minutes ago, Hari the Eggtart.2937 said:

No joke, I'm dead serious when I ask Anet this

 

Do you guys actually hate ele

I mean, we didn’t think you were joking, but Anet never (well technically once or twice) answers here.  🤷

 

And yeah.  I think they hate ele.  Oh, to me, catalyst was dead to me as soon as they made it mellee again with a FREAKIN HAMMER!!!

[Ceris.2189]

I never write here as well. I arleady stopped playing after completing the EOD story since Elementalist is my main and i hated the punishment of rotation when u missed the hammer 3 combinations, comparing to other classes, such a difficult rotation (speaking not on a golem but in raids/fractals) with little to nothing dps gain is just laughable. And when i started moving on  and getting fond of the idea of giving it second chance  they did that. Out of words. I regret spending my money on new expansion, since it was just a waste, especially that they just don't care about any feedback.  Didn't log in whole last week, my boyfriend is also devastated after HBF nerfs and didn't play since it was introduced, keep on with the good work Anet. 

 May to add, now this class has nothing to offer, it's not rewardable or even slightly interesting playing it under these conditions, i have no idea why would you even bother if there is Tempest and Weaver option.. or yeah , any other class. 

Edited March 15, 2022 by Ceris.2189

[Ruffy.2835]

The thing is, even with all the previous buffs, one little mistake and you get maybe 37k on the first burst 😄

 

e.g. holo simply outdpses that with no effort,

 

best solution would be to do several traits in the last tree-line

 

one for dps and one for giving quickness

 

and maybe remove concentration or from the empowerement trait or "just" increase the dps modifying stats 🤔

[Naxos.2503]

Well, the spec was already unattractive to me, that cements it, I'm sticking to weaver.

[Ceris.2189]

And, for reference, Firebrand can do 33.2k DPS while giving 100% quickness. Still no sense in this nerf at all, just  complete tunel vision . 

Edited March 15, 2022 by Ceris.2189

[Ruffy.2835]

thats also true, i just hope they will be kinda reajustement, because to be honest, i really liked playing the hammer ele, and i was close to the benchmark again ... seems to go back to weaver

 

i think there are plenty of methods to get it back to top without giving quickness e.g.

[Adavid.1524]

More than anything it felt like basing nerfs off of a training golem. Quickalyst or even just regular power is so intensive to play and so punishing to get out of rotation in any sort of raid/fractal with movement/interrupts/etc. Quickness is dead for them on anything that'll make you get out of jade sphere and then wait 15 seconds to retry since it's your only source. I realize it's unlikely to even get read, but please realize that in actual content catalyst is not outperforming at all unless you're really kitten good at it.

[Ruffy.2835]

yeah thats the thing, and before the patch i really didnt look at the quickalyst

 

for me it was a challenge, to get this build played into raid contents, which is, as you said, very hard, but worth it

 

now i dont even have the option, to do so 😄

[Laken.9018]

Stepping in here. As a guy whose an Ele main and has been since Guild Wars 1.
Having my main be in a state where it was playable again actually made me buy gems. I splashed out for the copper salvage and I was sitting here eyeing up which new skins from the Black Lion or store might be good to fit the new vibe wanted to go for. Shared Inventory slots so could make things easier.  Garden plots. All stuff for the upcoming months.

The nerf has killed that dead. Any skins for mounts, armor or weapons that I was contemplating has gone.
My ele is my  only invested character its what I spent MONEY on to improve but with how its keeps getting hit I dunno as a player I won't stop playing but certainly makes me less inclined to cough up cash.
This nervousness is also part of the reason I only brought the base EOD purchase rather than the one with gems as per my Path of Fire purchase.

These nerfs and issues with the class have had a personal impact on my desire to spend money.
 

Edited March 15, 2022 by Laken.9018

[Thundabolt.8541]

At this point it is a joke - End of Dragons hasn't even been out for a month and Elementalist is being nerfed. Elementalist mains have it rough - it stung when Wash The Pain Away got its first nerf, it stung when Obsidian Flesh stopped you from fighting back, and now we're having our swords taken away and replaced with wet noodles.

 

Let's just nerf Elementalist's ability to breathe oxygen next.

[Ruffy.2835]

I've even build mjoelnir :D, but well

[mythical.6315]

2 hours ago, Hari the Eggtart.2937 said:

Do you guys actually hate ele

What ele?  😀

[Redfeather.6401]

I didn't like my guys' elite, the catalyst and found it hard to even log in before, but this is a 'there is no hope' kind of feeling.

 

Why take out all the fun of pve because of how they want to balance it. You can balance the game in ways that allow a lot more freedom and fun. Please.

[SeTect.5918]

here again for everyone that didnt see this terrible dps. 

The 44k benchmark Was anyway just possible because they stood inside the golem which boosts hammer 3 damage immensely. However it was still 38-39k while not inside the boss...Well...now its 33.5k

And even less sustain. 

Imstead of solving the Real issue: hammer 3, they decided to nerf traits and other skills to...this...

[fixit.7189]

i dunno if this has changed but it seems that staff cata is now more dps than hammer?

so i guess the only thing to do at this point is to....nerf staff more!

Edited March 15, 2022 by fixit.7189

[Doggie.3184]

It's not just Ele. Anet really has a problem with nerfing being the only solution to anything. No moving things around, reworking, compensation, making something else more fun, or anything. It just breaks morale every patch for everyone.

[Laken.9018]

12 minutes ago, fixit.7189 said:

i dunno if this has changed but it seems that staff cata is now more dps than hammer?

so i guess the only thing to do at this point is to....nerf staff more!

Thats posted as March 1st. So it will have been affected by the changes that got made today as uses both the Fire and Water augments

Edited March 15, 2022 by Laken.9018

[ralkeon.6304]

Before EoD: can't play ele in end content cause it's too punishing and people prefer other (easier and better performing) classes. Get bullied by everyone even before starting the raid/fractal (whatever), being called "downstate enjoyer" cause of the difficulty of keeping the rotation clear, survive, do mechanics (while some of the most used classes have just skill priority with pauses between the skills to cast).

After EoD: still bullied in every situation, but catalyst are a little bit more accepted.

After 15 of march: back to pre EoD situation (?).

As some people already said, an ele doing the max dps he can do, needs probably double the effort of some other classes... it's so frustrating that we can't play the class we love cause we can't get enough performance to be equivalent to other classes while putting the same effort. If I misclick an attunement I messed up my rotation (and dps) for 9 seconds (at least). Now, I should care about my attunements cd and my jade sphere cd and placement, nice... instead of balancing eles are being pushed down...

You have to be faster, more precise, stay alive with the lowest health pool in the game and even get insulted every game by other players that are using guardians and necromancer cause "can you do your dps while staying alive or what?".

And I put a lot of effort in it... golem training to get into rotation like 2-3 times a week, raids, fractals, strikes everytime I can to get more experience...

As said before... I don't play a videogame to have fun... I play a game to be frustrated... 

[Helgaley.3619]

The way they treat ele really is just a meme at this point. I have never seen a development team so egregiously out of touch not just with what the community wants, but with the objective reality of how the class is performing in situations BEYOND the golem benchmark. It is literally like they looked at the title of a benchmark video, ignored the context, description, and comments, and made a knee-jerk reaction to nerf the class. I can't even grasp the profound level of ineptitude, mediocrity, and sheer audacity it takes to make balance and tuning decisions off one single measurement - and it isn't even a good measurement at that. Golem benchmarks reflect what the class could do under 100% perfect conditions that practically never exist in any game mode.

 

There is literally no point to playing elementalist right now. Core is useless, all of the core weapons have been nerfed into oblivion, and there is absolutely nothing that any of the elite specializations can do that other classes cannot do for less effort and better results. What is the point of even providing them with feedback? There are over 40 pages in the Catalyst feedback thread, multiple videos, multiple forum threads - and all of it has been ignored in favor of a golem benchmark. Asking for player feedback and then ignoring it with zero communication is just disrespectful to the players who wasted the time and energy to provide legitimate feedback via the forums and YT videos.

 

I really haven't had much desire to play since finishing the main EOD story, but this just cements it for me. Most of the new EoD specializations are half baked and not fun, the old meta is tired and stale, and I have zero confidence in the ability of the design team to consider feedback from the people actually playing their game to make a balance decision that is actually grounded in reality.

[Jski.6180]

Its a set up for nerfing catalyses boons from its f5. Going from 50% to 20% then to 100% is a set up for a nerf to the F5 effects UNLESS you run the right trait. Its super easy to see this one coming like it was easy to see the hit box dps was going to get nerfed.

[Shiyo.3578]

1 hour ago, Helgaley.3619 said:

The way they treat ele really is just a meme at this point. I have never seen a development team so egregiously out of touch not just with what the community wants, but with the objective reality of how the class is performing in situations BEYOND the golem benchmark. It is literally like they looked at the title of a benchmark video, ignored the context, description, and comments, and made a knee-jerk reaction to nerf the class. I can't even grasp the profound level of ineptitude, mediocrity, and sheer audacity it takes to make balance and tuning decisions off one single measurement - and it isn't even a good measurement at that. Golem benchmarks reflect what the class could do under 100% perfect conditions that practically never exist in any game mode.

 

There is literally no point to playing elementalist right now. Core is useless, all of the core weapons have been nerfed into oblivion, and there is absolutely nothing that any of the elite specializations can do that other classes cannot do for less effort and better results. What is the point of even providing them with feedback? There are over 40 pages in the Catalyst feedback thread, multiple videos, multiple forum threads - and all of it has been ignored in favor of a golem benchmark. Asking for player feedback and then ignoring it with zero communication is just disrespectful to the players who wasted the time and energy to provide legitimate feedback via the forums and YT videos.

 

I really haven't had much desire to play since finishing the main EOD story, but this just cements it for me. Most of the new EoD specializations are half baked and not fun, the old meta is tired and stale, and I have zero confidence in the ability of the design team to consider feedback from the people actually playing their game to make a balance decision that is actually grounded in reality.

You put more effort into this post than the skills team put into the CAT nerfs.

[DavidBG.6194]

I honestly thought Catalyst is fun and was kind of balanced in boon department, not too much dps (because I suck and it takes time to get used to this rotation) while providing relatively nice quickness uptime. Even before this nerf taking qfb would've been better mostly. Blind hate towards ele and not knowing how this works outside of the golem lead to this nerf probably.

[Chaos.2376]

Hello guys,

As a long time elementalist main I thought I will share my feelings.

After seeing the concept and beta gameplay I was sceptical for every game mode. For PvP and WvW it seemed to bring nothing new. We had auras all along with tempest anyway and we were melee on most 1v1 weapons. For squad play hammer will not fit in since 900 range on some abilities is to weak compared to staff. For PvE the overall usage of hammer skills was clunky but the concept had future. I hoped they will fix it for release.

After release I switched to catalyst knowing that I don't know what I'm doing but at least it's fresh. I experimented a bit but I was never a build crafter so I was just getting used to the flow and waiting for smarter people to come up with rotations. The open world gameplay was ok.

I realized that this class will be hard to execute properly and therefore should be rewarding DPS wise. There are a lot of skills to cast. Some of them are instant which I'm not really a fan of. There is plenty of correct placements to do with your hitbox for skill 3 and the spheres. And there is an lot of combos that are needed to be executed properly for stacks or longer utility duration.

After few days I began searching for a rotation on YouTube and found Roul's channel. After watching the DPS rotation I thought "oh it's hard but rewarding, I think I can learn that". I started practicing and after an hour I still struggled a lot with things mentioned in paragraph above. So I decided to take a break but come back in few days just to chase those bigger numbers - the true motivation. Don't get me wrong the specialisation is fun but not smooth enough to be played in fractals or raids without a proper payoff for the hardships.

Aaaaand then the nerf came. I don't know what to say here. I'm both sad, mad and disappointed. Now I see no point in playing catalyst besides some open world which doesn't matter anyway. I will probably stick to Weaver for another few years or just go play Firebrand or Necro and be rewarded for not doing much.

Edited March 16, 2022 by Chaos.2376
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