Current state of mechanist class promotes degenerative gameplay

[Flowerpot.6025]

I never understood the crying about other classes.

So we got an easy to play class which still allows for good dmg. How is that a bad thing?

If it's boring to you simply don't play it? I for once enjoy the fact that I don't have to finger break dance to put out some decent dmg.

[anbujackson.9564]

On 8/21/2022 at 3:39 AM, Flowerpot.6025 said:

I never understood the crying about other classes.

So we got an easy to play class which still allows for good dmg. How is that a bad thing?

If it's boring to you simply don't play it? I for once enjoy the fact that I don't have to finger break dance to put out some decent dmg.

There is a difference between easy + good and harder + worse. Its either easy to play or good in prformance. Not both at once. Its the same problem with scourge and virtuoso by the way except they have to press more buttons than mech.

[soul.9651]

3 minutes ago, anbujackson.9564 said:

There is a difference between easy + good and harder + worse. Its either easy to play or good in prformance. Not both at once. Its the same problem with scourge and virtuoso by the way except they have to press more buttons than mech.

Those 2 need to be looked at aswell but the way they messed up with mech is just another level 

[Styopa.2538]

On 3/25/2022 at 7:28 PM, SleepyBat.9034 said:

These problems sound like they have nothing to do with the Mechanist.

Not specifically, but having a braindead OP spec that is never challenged leaves these players never learning anything, thus never improving.

[SleepyBat.9034]

Just now, Styopa.2538 said:

Not specifically, but having a braindead OP spec that is never challenged leaves these players never learning anything, thus never improving.

Didn't they just nerf it?

[soul.9651]

1 minute ago, SleepyBat.9034 said:

Didn't they just nerf it?

Nop they buffed it, unintentionally by buffing engis underperforming specs

[Obtena.7952]

37 minutes ago, Styopa.2538 said:

Not specifically, but having a braindead OP spec that is never challenged leaves these players never learning anything, thus never improving.

Well, that's the point of LI builds in the first place ... not everyone wants to play a game so they can be top 1%. Anet knows that and knows that's a portion of the market other MMO's are missing out on. If they give those options, they get those people.

I don't know if LI builds performing at an acceptable level is intended or coincidence, but it's a good business for Anet if they recognize it and start catering to it. 

Edited August 23, 2022 by Obtena.7952

[Tails.9372]

41 minutes ago, Styopa.2538 said:

leaves these players never learning anything, thus never improving

Everyone who goes for these kind of LI builds has no interest in learning to play so called "piano builds" in the first place, the last decade has proven that more than enough (I've even met people who said that spamming 3 on P/P thief is to much for them to bother). The notion that these people would suddenly start improving themselves if you just nerf the currently popular LI build hard enough is nothing but naive.

40 minutes ago, SleepyBat.9034 said:

Didn't they just nerf it?

They are going to nerf the support variant. The complaints about how the upcoming Big Boomer buff is going to affect "the meme" are however totally blown out of proportion. If you do the math you'll see that it goes from 28k to roughly around 28,6k, wether or not you think this is something that changes the bigger picture in any way, shape of form is up to you.

Edited August 23, 2022 by Tails.9372

[ThunderX.6591]

People are so focused in complaining to nerf Mecha (well the 4 people who complain about it write so many posts combined that from an external point of view, appear to be a lot more) that don't see the nerf to it even if someone write it in front of them..........

For the last 4 or 5 patches consecutive, Mecha get nerfed (Again) on the condi side (again) and on the barrier side now too (is a new nerf), plus some nerf to boons duration, just to add something extra, but like all the time, people don't understand it and think Mecha go buffed for a randon +5% on a skill that give better buff to scrapper or holosmith than the Mecha........

I tell you a secret, that boons don't affect the robot after the June patch, so what are you all talking about?

Learning how a class work could help in playing the game better, and really, you need to check the buff to some classes, now they really have taken a bost in performance.

Edited August 23, 2022 by ThunderX.6591

[Kuma.1503]

4 hours ago, soul.9651 said:

Nop they buffed it, unintentionally by buffing engis underperforming specs

The buff is miniscule for mech. Big boomer doesn't effect the Mech, only the engi. It's a ~2% buff for mech, at the same time that support and condi mech got some huge nerfs. 

[Anela.3867]

The Mechanist is just want I needed. I am older with arthritis in both my hands and I can't play the piano classes. I kept dying and got very discouraged. I can play decently on the Mechanist. If that hadn't worked out, I would have had to quit GW2.

[Ashantara.8731]

I am glad I found this thread.

While I enjoy playing Mechanist myself, I am also being honest: it is a helplessly overpowered spec, across all game modes.

• The other day, in PvE starter zones:
  Went there on my Dragonhunter to welcome new players. Mechs go speed-pew-pew around me, killing everything instantly, not leaving anything alive for newbies. Even I had a hard time scoring kills alongside them -- forget about placing symbols or executing Whirling Wrath, pfft.
   
• Today in PvP:
  Hadn't played in over four years and had fun, surprisingly, ... until the Mech players came pouring into matches. They were like a blight, making normal gameplay during fights impossible as you constantly had to dodge the mechs while being speed-pew-pew'd by their rifle-wielding owners. 1+1+1 for the win?
   

Edited August 25, 2022 by Ashantara.8731

[Kodama.6453]

19 minutes ago, Ashantara.8731 said:

I am glad I found this thread.

While I enjoy playing Mechanist myself, I am also being honest: it is a helplessly overpowered spec, across all game modes.

• The other day, in PvE starter zones:
  Went there on my Dragonhunter to welcome new players. Mechs go speed-pew-pew around me, killing everything instantly, not leaving anything alive for newbies. Even I had a hard time scoring kills alongside them -- forget about placing symbols or executing Whirling Wrath, pfft.
   
• Today in PvP:
  Hadn't played in over four years and had fun, surprisingly, ... until the Mech players came pouring into matches. They were like a blight, making normal gameplay during fights impossible as you constantly had to dodge the mechs while being speed-pew-pew'd by their rifle-wielding owners. 1+1+1 for the win?
   

If you think mechanist is overpowered in PvP, then this tells us alot more about you and your PvP performance than about mechanist, tbh.

[Kuma.1503]

1 hour ago, Ashantara.8731 said:

I am glad I found this thread.

While I enjoy playing Mechanist myself, I am also being honest: it is a helplessly overpowered spec, across all game modes.

• The other day, in PvE starter zones:
  Went there on my Dragonhunter to welcome new players. Mechs go speed-pew-pew around me, killing everything instantly, not leaving anything alive for newbies. Even I had a hard time scoring kills alongside them -- forget about placing symbols or executing Whirling Wrath, pfft.
   
• Today in PvP:
  Hadn't played in over four years and had fun, surprisingly, ... until the Mech players came pouring into matches. They were like a blight, making normal gameplay during fights impossible as you constantly had to dodge the mechs while being speed-pew-pew'd by their rifle-wielding owners. 1+1+1 for the win?
   

Mech is only overpowered in PvE.

In PvP and WvW, it's easy to play, but the meta is very unkind to it. We had to adapt to Deadeye, Untamed, Harbinger, and Specter, so reflects are very abundant. Tempest and Catalyst are both top tier and both spam reflects and blocks with such high uptime you'll never kill them. Whether you teamfight or sidenode you can end up hard countered. There are better options with better matchup spreads. 

They have high damage, but they're low sustain and glass. Other builds like Cata and BsW have high damage, tankiness, and high sustain while not being completely shut down by meta builds. 

In WvW they're dead weight in zergs, and they're pretty much bootleg sic em soulbeasts when roaming. Less burst, Higher sustained damage, but much squishier, with much worse cleanse, stunbreaks,  stab access, less range, and a harder time playing around projectile hate. 

Edited August 25, 2022 by Kuma.1503

[Ashantara.8731]

5 hours ago, Kodama.6453 said:

If you think mechanist is overpowered in PvP, then this tells us alot more about you and your PvP performance than about mechanist, tbh.

PvP is a teamplay mode. Sometimes you have a great team, sometimes you don't. I hadn't played in over four years (that means I started at the lowest tier today when I played those 10 matches). My performance was certainly rusty*. I was never "pro" to begin with, and I doubt all PvP players are.

So when you are teamed up against three Mechanists with your own team being mediocre and not playing well together, those Mechs are certainly an annoyance that cannot be ignored. Having such heavy damage on one's auto-attack in rapid fire is "overpowered" in my opinion, in any game mode.

*) Though I was Top Player in most of today's matches in the categories Damage, Defense and Kills.
 

Edit: Perhaps I didn't get my point across well. There are many newbies in low tier PvP. They are trying to learn playing the game mode and their builds. This effort gets hampered by opponents who are just as low skilled but have this very powerful auto-attack. Which brings us back to this thread's topic.
 

Edited August 25, 2022 by Ashantara.8731

[rune.9572]

We're 5th month in and this thread has aged like the finest Dutch cheese 😂

Edited September 2, 2022 by rune.9572

[Unicorn Luna.5204]

I rotate the classes I play although I do main guardian in general. I recently got around to gearing a mech to see just how easy it is that everyone's going on about and to see why it's always top dps in a lot of situations. I didn't really believe it would be as easy as everyone says it was. After an hour of lolling around wasting everything with next to no effort I realised it was familiar to me as someone who used to provide QA for an MMO, that rifle power mech feels like someone let a Dev testing class through to the live game without realising. It's so easy it's not even funny. 

[Yellow Rainbow.6142]

if you find mech too easy, don't play plz. you have 26 other elite class to choose from. Let us have our fun. Thank you and now go play game instead of crying in forum.

[anbujackson.9564]

20 hours ago, Yellow Rainbow.6142 said:

if you find mech too easy, don't play plz. you have 26 other elite class to choose from. Let us have our fun. Thank you and now go play game instead of crying in forum.

A forum exists to point out issues and discuss them.

I mean you probably dont care if mech popularity increases even further from 33% to like 50. So half the players are just mechs. 

There are also people who dont like that all. Its not like they tell you to play a class with a real rotation and tradeoffs. 

I mean imagine a reaper player playing like a half god and still getting (vastly) outperformed by a half afk mechanist player. Do you think that this person has fun seeing that? No.

[Yellow Rainbow.6142]

4 hours ago, anbujackson.9564 said:

A forum exists to point out issues and discuss them.

I mean you probably dont care if mech popularity increases even further from 33% to like 50. So half the players are just mechs. 

There are also people who dont like that all. Its not like they tell you to play a class with a real rotation and tradeoffs. 

I mean imagine a reaper player playing like a half god and still getting (vastly) outperformed by a half afk mechanist player. Do you think that this person has fun seeing that? No.

I see more necro in open world than anything else. Btw, to counter your point, why not ask for proper buff to other classes instead of nerfing mech?

You all sound like politician who promise to make everyone equal by making them poor.

[Nephalem.8921]

1 hour ago, Yellow Rainbow.6142 said:

I see more necro in open world than anything else. Btw, to counter your point, why not ask for proper buff to other classes instead of nerfing mech?

You all sound like politician who promise to make everyone equal by making them poor.

Because this would result in even more powercreep.

How do you even want to buff other specs to rifle mech level? Introduction of an auto combat feature like asian mobile mmos have?

I see 50% mechs almost everywhere. Its fine that you have fun "playing" rifle mech but it is completely destroying my fun. The game feels even easier than before. Its like cheating.

Last week i tried to solo some dungeons with this thing. Bosses focus the mech and do not have enough dps to kill it before you can kill the boss. And you can even revive it once. This is not even easy mode anymore. Its easier than actual easy modes in single player games and this thing is also an S tier dps class in raids. How can you defend this?

[lorddarkflare.9186]

1 hour ago, Nephalem.8921 said:

Because this would result in even more powercreep.

How do you even want to buff other specs to rifle mech level? Introduction of an auto combat feature like asian mobile mmos have?

I see 50% mechs almost everywhere. Its fine that you have fun "playing" rifle mech but it is completely destroying my fun. The game feels even easier than before. Its like cheating.

Last week i tried to solo some dungeons with this thing. Bosses focus the mech and do not have enough dps to kill it before you can kill the boss. And you can even revive it once. This is not even easy mode anymore. Its easier than actual easy modes in single player games and this thing is also an S tier dps class in raids. How can you defend this?

 

I think it is good to realize something: unless nerfed to the point it becomes literally useless, you will continue to a ton of Mechs everywhere.  I mean, just with the pool of viable builds alone: Heal, Alacrity, Power DPS, Condi DPS means Arena Net would have to kill 2 out of 4 types of builds available to Mechs to see a visible reduction of them in high level PvE. And they will pretty much always be present in the open world mainly because like minion masters, they are extremely visible.

And I agree with them that we should not be asking for mechs to be nerfed, but for mechs to made more complex and 'difficult' to play. That will of course come with some stiff nerfs, but if we are spplying pressure to the devs, I want it to be helpful.

Edited September 4, 2022 by lorddarkflare.9186

[Obtena.7952]

3 hours ago, Nephalem.8921 said:

Because this would result in even more powercreep.

How do you even want to buff other specs to rifle mech level? Introduction of an auto combat feature like asian mobile mmos have?

I see 50% mechs almost everywhere. Its fine that you have fun "playing" rifle mech but it is completely destroying my fun. The game feels even easier than before. Its like cheating.

Last week i tried to solo some dungeons with this thing. Bosses focus the mech and do not have enough dps to kill it before you can kill the boss. And you can even revive it once. This is not even easy mode anymore. Its easier than actual easy modes in single player games and this thing is also an S tier dps class in raids. How can you defend this?

Well, if everything is buffed to the level of other high output classes, that's not really power creep. Power creep is when the ceiling is raised, not when other things are moved towards the ceiling, and still not touching it. power rifle mech is certainly not pushing the ceiling here. 

It's not hard to defend this; why is it is  problem that people can solo dungeons with power rifle mech? People have been soloing dungeons with LOTS of things for almost ten years. Now all the sudden, it's a big problem? 

The fact is that claiming power rifle mech gameplay affects you when other people play it is just a ruse. It don't affect you. Someone soloing a dungeon with power rifle mech ... that doesn't affect you. People playing power rifle mech in team you aren't in ... doesn't affect you. If you don't want it to affect you, don't play in teams with mechanists. Take a page from meta exclusive teams ... they have learned to play with people and builds they want and not play with people and builds they don't want. 

Edited September 4, 2022 by Obtena.7952

[Sunchaser.9854]

Personal choice question:

A: Is class balance one class played to all 5-8 /10 slots or 10/10 slots.

B: Or is it each of the 9 classes having something to bring to the table?

Because gw2, seems to view class balance as 1 class stacked 8-10 times. Especially from a "class diversity patch: Buffed mechanist +20%, removed warrior banner buffs, nerfed 2% playrate catalyst for being meta defining " It nerfed classes seeing 0.5-2% playrates to.. Make what should be a 3% playrate spec represent 40-80% of the meta(??)

Now those pesky 1/10 warriors can't ruin class diversity by bringing themselves to a raid 🤨 . That was a real problem you guys know.. Having one class in a raid. Now we just use 8 mechanists.

Gw2 is the best game ever. It solved the class diversity problem in a way no one else thought of unique to gw2. 🤷‍♂️ Who needs class balance. when everyone can balance themselves by pressing delete 10 year old character to all have 8-9 people play the same class, Spec, and weapon.  

That sure doesn't affect gameplay at all when people just stop talking in raids, autoattack, log out, and then not log in the next week to the thrilling combat of auto attacking simulator 2022.

The most exciting mmorpg combat. Combat so thrilling, you'll watch netflix and play a autoplay mobile rpg for that thrilling auto loot action. Geee. It's like... The part of wow classic where paladin's only job was to sit in a 50 man raid casting 5x 10 minute long buffs on 50 different people every few seconds. Such . . . . . ... Engaging . . . Content(???)  

After all, this is the video game balance we're going to get. We just might as well just admit if all the other posts haven't worked that it's unlikely mech is probably going to get any serious changes.

Honestly after about a month of gw2 i did my goal of ascended, i tried raids, it was all mech, i tried strikes, it was all mech, i looked at open world soo won, it was all mech, i went over to echovald wilds. It's all mech. And im not even a ele or a warrior. What do the other 7/9 classes even bring when mech does more than the other 8 classes bring  combined? There's not even much raid loot, you play for fun and yet everyone is a afk robot. Or you go to living world and it's more afk robots. 

I think i've only seen 1 non mech pass past a 25k bench and it was some person doing 32k dps until they literally died from melee or lost the boon ball and had to switch mobs and had their dps crater 32k to 22k. Others classes are just zero reward for more effort. While usually providing less boons. And having less viable healing specs.

Sometimes, some specs aren't even considered full or viable. There's few to 0 to any spots for a healer spec that heals less, provides less boons, or heck, Even just provides more healing but no boons or might. So much of the gw2 balance is smashing 5 people in a 5 man group together to get 25 might, 100% alac, 100% quickness, and maybe vulnerability / stability  or survive one shots either with dodging or facetanking while double outhealing other classes off passive 400-500 hp/s regeneration vs 5000 hp / 30 sec comes into play. 

One class does it all, it's the jack of all trades, master of all but ones. While the other classes are masters of nones with 0 anything they bring other than 1-2 firebrands vs 5-8 mechanists. The only boon mechanist can't provide, engineer still can. Quickness, it can still provide with scrapper. The tool is just overly loaded while the other classes aren't as rewarding. Making them feel like they lack oomfph, payoff, or hard not to feel like some severe favorite child class favoritism is going on. (Benny #1 gets a car after he crashed his last one, you get to clean it child #9!), 

Mech/engi gets great 100% access to all boons / Alac/quickness / Might/ Self quickness in one class while the other 7 classes don't bring anything to a raid. All you have IS realistic risk without realistic reward.

Sure, After all, Warrior no longer brings anything to a raid, but at least you can bring it and still do the content fine. It can hit a dps golem very hard where all boons are provided and then provide nothing to a group while losing more dps in practice vs a raid dummy. All risk, no boons, no rewards.

So warrior is still viable. Just what does it do better? Does it range dps better? No. Does it practically raid dps better? On paper, not practice. Does it provide boons? No. Does it heal? Lol, no. Does it like.. Provide some group benefit? No. Does it lose dps if the target moves, yes. Does it do less dps overall when movement is added? Sure. Does it have banners do nothing. Sure. Does it heal? Lol no. Does it dps well? Lol no. So what does it do???
With mech, their upsides are they do every boon better than you, dps better in raid mechanics in practice, with less effort and 4 button mashing rotations vs 34 part 75-> 0-5 energy management rotation swaps with aura canceling.

And your only reward is... To quote willy wonka. Pretty much Nothing.  You can get to work harder because "you want to work harder", and there isn't a reward. That's Class balance rn.

 

I mean i don't even care at this point, it's just a video game. But pretty much, video games are just a luxury. I got my ascended, logged out and stopped caring.

So i'm just sitting here i guess. Looking at either deleting a 10 year old character to play a class i might not even like or enjoy or just log off the game or wait for a character slot update. Raids don't even get frequent updates, neither do fractals, neither do dungeons. Rotations are so much of how you interact with a game and if you take the gameplay out. What do you have left to do even? 

I actually liked the fluid gw2 rotation over ff14, but knowing there's no reward to them, is like knowing there's a worm in the center of a juicy apple. it just kinda eats away at the previous excitement you had towards finishing and wolfing it down when you notice the wiggling tail and hole around the apple you were previously eager to bite into and enjoy.

If the top performing spec of skill based content is semi afk button mashing, what's really the point of getting invested and learning 34 part golem rotations, to compete with someone who went afk and autoregenerated 3x more hp/s than you? 

Edited September 4, 2022 by Sunchaser.9854

[soul.9651]

54 minutes ago, Sunchaser.9854 said:

A: Is class balance one class played to all 5/10 to 8/10 to 10/10 slots.

B: Or is it each of the 9 classes having something to bring to the table?

 

In gw2, Option A, one class being able to provide more than what the other 8-9 can ever since the "Class diversity patch" that aimed to increase diversity by removing unique buffs did like exactly what you'd expect. It seems like the gw2 balance goal would see 98% of the population playing 3% of the specs to 50-90% representation would be deemed a success, experimental or otherwise. But we did have a mech nerf guys. It just nerfed mech 35k to 35k dps. Aren't you guys amazed? Cake and all, balance is solved. Now instead of doing 35k dps, it does 35k dps. That's a difference guys! 🤨🤔🤨🙄

Now those pesky 1/10 warriors can't ruin class diversity by bringing themselves to a raid 🤨 and 8/10 people can play a mechanist. Gw2 is the best game ever. It solved the class diversity problem in a way no one else thought of. Increasing class diversity by making one class stacked 8 times do more than having one of each of the other 8 combined.

That sure doesn't affect gameplay at all when people just stop talking in raids, autoattack, log out, and then not log in the next week to the thrilling combat of auto attacking simulator 2022. The most exciting mmorpg combat. Combat so thrilling, you'll watch netflix and play a autoplay mobile rpg for that thrilling auto loot action. 

After all, this is the video game balance we're going to get. We just might as well just admit if all the other posts haven't worked that it's unlikely mech is probably going to get any serious changes. Honestly after about a month of gw2 i did my goal of ascended, i tried raids, it was all mech, i tried strikes, it was all mech, i looked at open world soo won, it was all mech, i went over to echovald wilds. It's all mech. And im not even a ele or a warrior. What do the other 7/9 classes even bring when mech does more than the other 8 classes bring  combined?

 

Lets just be real here, it's probably unlikely for it to all be intentional. The person who was in charge of the balance patch mains it. It's unlikely to be changed. Low intensity builds aren't bad, it's just if it was like, 5 classes represented like something else did the alacity, something else was the healer, something else did the range dps, something else did melee dps. That'd be fine. If more specs were closer, it wouldn't stick out as much as a 0.5k dps vs 30-40k dps bench gap having 28k autoattack dps vs 2-10k auto dps on other specs stand out as much. 

I think i've only seen 1 non mech pass past a 25k bench and it was some person doing 32k dps until they literally died from melee or lost the boon ball and had to switch mobs and had their dps crater 32k to 22k. Others classes are just zero reward for more effort. While usually providing less boons. And having less viable healing specs.

Or have a neglected healing spec that's only 50% of a healing spec without the dps or support to make half a healer work or who miss the might/alac/quickness stacks to make it viable EVEN if it was lucky enough to actually.. heal more, instead of healing less, providing less boons, and doing lower dps, and needing more ritualists since it's uptime was poorer. 

One class does it all, it's the jack of all trades, master of none All but one, quickness. Which it can still provide with scrapper. Giving it access to all boons in one class while the other 7 classes don't bring anything to a raid but realistic risk without realistic reward. After all, Warrior no longer brings anything to a raid, but at least you can bring it and still do the content fine. It can hit a dps golem very hard where all boons are provided and then provide nothing to a group while losing more dps in practice vs a raid dummy. All risk, no boons, no rewards.

 

Their upsides are they do every boon better than you, dps better than you, with less effort than you. And your only reward is... To quote willy wonka. Pretty much Nothing.  There isn't one. 

And have half the boon uptime of one buff, while needing to juggle 2 sets of weapon abilities and swaps to.. Provide the.. same literal effects as them autoattacking for a 34 part energy managing rotation with weapon swaps and aura activation/disabling to avoid clipping energy every 20 seconds. 

I mean i don't even care at this point, it's just a video game. But pretty much, video games are just a luxury. I got my ascended, logged out and stopped caring. Im not really too engaged into the game. I've been at least trying to settle for a new character slot over deleting a 10 year char but.. No sales. Nada. So i'm just sitting here i guess. Raids don't even get frequent updates, neither do fractals, neither do dungeons. Rotations are so much of how you interact with a game and if you take the gameplay out. What do you have left to do even?  

Mech is like the final smack in the face for every veteran in this game, as you mentioned they abandoned fracts raids and dungeons and for some people those are the places where they spend most of their time in this game, and on top of that they also make this game unfun for literaly EVERYONE who hates low intensity builds or in other words who plays anything else but pmech. So if the game is unfun plus there is no new content you mostly like to play i can see the only one path which non mech players will take if anet wont fix this. 

Edited September 4, 2022 by soul.9651