Why does Caithe outrank me as the Champion of Aurene

[NaYSmith.4513]

Immediately hated the story when this happened.

I know how GW1 veterans feel about Kormir now..... Only I think this is worse because Caithe is a terrible person, and gets to just show up out of nowhere, skipping all the kitten trials and tests, just to slot into the commander role?


Terrible writing.

[Kalavier.1097]

4 minutes ago, NaYSmith.4513 said:

Immediately hated the story when this happened.

I know how GW1 veterans feel about Kormir now..... Only I think this is worse because Caithe is a terrible person, and gets to just show up out of nowhere, skipping all the kitten trials and tests, just to slot into the commander role?


Terrible writing.

I don't recall seeing Caithe saving the world, riding Aurene, or organizing armies?

[NaYSmith.4513]

6 hours ago, Kalavier.1097 said:

I don't recall seeing Caithe saving the world, riding Aurene, or organizing armies?

Correct, you see her doing nothing.

Every single test/trial leading up to this "bond" with Aurene is made absolutely meaningless when this leafy genocidal egg thief just appears out of nowhere like "lol she needs us both, I'm important and have her trust despite doing nadda".

[Yellow Rainbow.6142]

One of the reason I am not making Aurene Legendary weapons. Never felt bonding strong enough for it to waste 3k gold on her theme 😄

 

[Kalavier.1097]

8 hours ago, NaYSmith.4513 said:

Correct, you see her doing nothing.

Every single test/trial leading up to this "bond" with Aurene is made absolutely meaningless when this leafy genocidal egg thief just appears out of nowhere like "lol she needs us both, I'm important and have her trust despite doing nadda".

Genocidal?

I'm sorry, but you appear to be saying Caithe has gained all this rank and prestige when literally nobody goes "PRAISE CAITHE" Caithe doesn't jump on Aurene's back and chase Kralk through the mists. Caithe isn't called champion.

It's fair to not like Caithe but don't twist the story to imply that Caithe had any trust given to her for a long time after HoT. She was basically dumped with the exalted and left behind vs not actively being brought out to save the world.

[DanAlcedo.3281]

20 hours ago, NaYSmith.4513 said:

Immediately hated the story when this happened.

I know how GW1 veterans feel about Kormir now..... Only I think this is worse because Caithe is a terrible person, and gets to just show up out of nowhere, skipping all the kitten trials and tests, just to slot into the commander role?


Terrible writing.

Imagine comparing Caithe to kormir. 

How do you kids say it these days? 

Kekw papega. 

[NaYSmith.4513]

9 hours ago, Kalavier.1097 said:

Genocidal?

I'm sorry, but you appear to be saying Caithe has gained all this rank and prestige when literally nobody goes "PRAISE CAITHE" Caithe doesn't jump on Aurene's back and chase Kralk through the mists. Caithe isn't called champion.

It's fair to not like Caithe but don't twist the story to imply that Caithe had any trust given to her for a long time after HoT. She was basically dumped with the exalted and left behind vs not actively being brought out to save the world.

Why are you saying she didn't do things I'm not even talking about? Stop gaslighting...

"It's fair to not like Caithe but don't twist the story to imply that Caithe had any trust given to her for a long time after HoT. She was basically dumped with the exalted and left behind vs not actively being brought out to save the world."

Which is enough to gain the trust and to be the voice of Aurene? I don't trust her, I don't like her, yet the developers think SHE DESERVES to waltz in and proclaim that Aurene needs her? For what?


Love how nobody addresses the actual points made... Nobody responds to my criticism of the test the commander needed to go through, that he really didn't need to go through... 

 

Awful character, awful scene, awful writing. 
 

[Zauriel Mooncat.4968]

I agree with op, we dont even get to be bloomed, WHY CAITHE? We are Aurene's Champion, I want that too! 

Every time on story we feel more like a second character while Caithe is very much put on a pedestal like she has done everything for Aurene when she have been barely there, so, why SHE gets so much privilege and we dont? 

 

And YES I ascept I am jealous about it, I know that but come on! 

Edited May 6, 2022 by Zauriel Mooncat.4968

[Kalavier.1097]

3 hours ago, NaYSmith.4513 said:

Which is enough to gain the trust and to be the voice of Aurene? I don't trust her, I don't like her, yet the developers think SHE DESERVES to waltz in and proclaim that Aurene needs her? For what?


Love how nobody addresses the actual points made... Nobody responds to my criticism of the test the commander needed to go through, that he really didn't need to go through... 

 

Okay, calming things down. Caithe actually lived with Aurene, up until the Balthazar events in Elona. But also when the time came for her to become the voice, everybody else (bar commander) was freaking out over Aurene branding the area to stop a storm, and she was the only one who trusted Aurene and stepped forward. Nobody promoted her, Aurene chose to accept the advance.

Aurene, at that moment, needed a voice. Caithe offered to be that voice willingly and freely, knowing it could harm her.

Even then, this affords her no special treatment from anybody else until the end of that conflict with the Crystal bloom, who are more focused on Aurene then Caithe.

2 hours ago, Zauriel Mooncat.4968 said:

I agree with op, we dont even get to be bloomed, WHY CAITHE? We are Aurene's Champion, I want that too! 

Every time on story we feel more like a second character while Caithe is very much put on a pedestal like she has done everything for Aurene when she have been barely there, so, why SHE gets so much privilege and we dont? 

 

And YES I ascept I am jealous about it, I know that but come on! 

I'm just truly curious what Pedestal Caithe was placed on at any point, besides the Crystal bloom stuff. Which even then is a limited group who are more focused on Aurene then Caithe.

She's not the chosen Champion who Aurene bonded with since she hatched. She's not the one who went through the trials of Glint.

She's a champion of Aurene sure, but nobody is out here praising Caithe for stuff, but instead praise the commander for their efforts.

[Narcemus.1348]

9 hours ago, Kalavier.1097 said:

Okay, calming things down. Caithe actually lived with Aurene, up until the Balthazar events in Elona. But also when the time came for her to become the voice, everybody else (bar commander) was freaking out over Aurene branding the area to stop a storm, and she was the only one who trusted Aurene and stepped forward. Nobody promoted her, Aurene chose to accept the advance.

Aurene, at that moment, needed a voice. Caithe offered to be that voice willingly and freely, knowing it could harm her.

Even then, this affords her no special treatment from anybody else until the end of that conflict with the Crystal bloom, who are more focused on Aurene then Caithe.

I'm just truly curious what Pedestal Caithe was placed on at any point, besides the Crystal bloom stuff. Which even then is a limited group who are more focused on Aurene then Caithe.

She's not the chosen Champion who Aurene bonded with since she hatched. She's not the one who went through the trials of Glint.

She's a champion of Aurene sure, but nobody is out here praising Caithe for stuff, but instead praise the commander for their efforts.

I couldn't agree more. Sure we went through a few story steps with Aurene, but then we basically left her alone with the exalted while we went galavanting around the world. From the second story step of Season 3 to the midpoint of Path of Fire we had left Aurene alone. And all that time all she had was... Caithe. Caithe was there to comfort her and care for her in a way that the hero worshipping Exalted never could. This is why Caithe stepped forward and asked to be allowed to be Aurene's voice, and why Aurene accepted. 

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

There's no indication that the Dream is related to Soo-Won. Soo-Won's mindscape is, unsurprisingly very watery. Like the shallow ocean's floor full of coral and oversized seaweed. Aurene's mindscape ends up being a shimmery ground (don't remember the exact visual details besides oh god it's bright and hurts my eyes). Meanwhile Mordremoth's mindscape is just rocks full of various vegetation.

The Dream when experienced in core is more... foggy but fully representation of actual places on Tyria. Very different from any of the three dragon mindscapes witnessed.

[TheOrlyFactor.8341]

On 5/5/2022 at 6:47 PM, Yellow Rainbow.6142 said:

One of the reason I am not making Aurene Legendary weapons. Never felt bonding strong enough for it to waste 3k gold on her theme 😄

 

 

Pretty much this even though Caithe doesn't outrank the Commander, as others have already pointed out.

 

I could go into why I don't care about the Commander character and the majority of Dragon's Watch but this thread isn't the thread for that. I will say that this obsession some people have with having their Commander being the center of attention all the time every time is tiring. I was tired of it when people whined that Trahearne was """taking all the credit""" and I'm tired of it to this day with threads like this.

 

From my perspective, the Commander was never meant to be the center of attention in the story anyway. Personal Story was more about Trahearne. We're just another soldier in the trenches fighting evil (which I loved and preferred over the tired trope of being "the Chosen One"). Of course, the community whined about it and here we are in the present day with history repeating itself.

 

Clearly I'm not caffeinated enough for the nonsense in this thread.

[Fang.8291]

 Caithe got branded because for that one specific episode they needed someone that speaks for Aurene. They picked Caithe, because she was the character that spend some time with Aurene from the cast of our companions, she said her 3 lines for Aurene- that's it. But now they have written Caithe into a corner-when Aurene actually started to speak on her own. They tried to fix this and get her out of said corner by giving her more importance, the order of the crystal bloom lead yada yada,  which of course will upset players-that still have an axe to grind with her, because she stole the egg.

Caithe does not deserve the hate she gets, because she always was written in a way that makes her a sly wildcard, that just does things on her own sometimes, without a second thought what others might think about it. I'm upset about the branding too but for a different reason: Her character model just looks super ugly now and we still can not pick her face options.

[Kalavier.1097]

On 5/7/2022 at 11:54 PM, TheOrlyFactor.8341 said:

I could go into why I don't care about the Commander character and the majority of Dragon's Watch but this thread isn't the thread for that. I will say that this obsession some people have with having their Commander being the center of attention all the time every time is tiring. I was tired of it when people whined that Trahearne was """taking all the credit""" and I'm tired of it to this day with threads like this.

 

From my perspective, the Commander was never meant to be the center of attention in the story anyway. Personal Story was more about Trahearne. We're just another soldier in the trenches fighting evil (which I loved and preferred over the tired trope of being "the Chosen One"). Of course, the community whined about it and here we are in the present day with history repeating itself.

 

Clearly I'm not caffeinated enough for the nonsense in this thread.

 

To be fair, in GW1 and GW2 both the PC holds the role of hero, but also not "the leader.". Often we are more of a field agent of the person actually in charge. in PS,  that person was Trahearne. Of course people bitched about it, failing to understand the explicitly stated reasons why this happened within the story lol. Over time in both cases, the hero kinda goes to doing their own thing, but isn't the main big leader figure.

It's kinda why I hated Zojja in silverwastes. Her comment about how the commander makes up X percent of the combined power of Destiny's Edge just felt like pandering to those screaming about us not getting enough credit.

 

13 minutes ago, Fang.8291 said:

 Caithe got branded because for that one specific episode they needed someone that speaks for Aurene. They picked Caithe, because she was the character that spend some time with Aurene from the cast of our companions, she said her 3 lines for Aurene- that's it. But now they have written Caithe into a corner-when Aurene actually started to speak on her own. They tried to fix this and get her out of said corner by giving her more importance, the order of the crystal bloom lead yada yada,  which of course will upset players-that still have an axe to grind with her, because she stole the egg.

Caithe does not deserve the hate she gets, because she always was written in a way that makes her a sly wildcard, that just does things on her own sometimes, without a second thought what others might think about it. I'm upset about the branding too but for a different reason: Her character model just looks super ugly now and we still can not pick her face options.

To be fair, from the very start Caithe has been an unwilling leader of the Crystal bloom. They formed and serve Aurene, and all voted/decided Caithe was their leader. A fitting choice, but one she's slowly adapted to.

The biggest problem I think is how HoT had bits cut out, which caused the commander to flip back and forth about Caithe.

We go from "Ignore caithe, we gotta rescue the pact!" to "WAIT YOU SAW CAITHE, WHERE!" to "Okay the egg is secure, Caithe will show up again, she always does. It's not a thing to worry about." to "IF SHE EVEN BREATHS IN A SUSPICIOUS MANNER BRAHAM TURN HER TO PASTE!"

Cause the Expansion kinda ended shortly after ^ that, it didn't help things going forward for some I bet.

 

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

On 4/5/2022 at 11:18 AM, Firebird Gomer.9563 said:

I am (the player in general) the Commander. I am (again the player in general) Aurene's Champion. But Caithe is treated more like Aurene's Champion than we (the player in general) have ever been allowed to be. 

For plot reasons it could be due to a number of things, but the two most pronounced:

> Caithe was the first one to offer herself to branding so bby Aurene could make words, while everyone else had trust issues.

> Caithe had the egg first/was the first bodyguard of it besides the Master of Peace. Protecting it was part of her Wyld Hunt. 

For non plot/overarching story reasons, it's to:

> ensure Aurene has an accompanying character that can remain close by/reach out with news that doesn't involve Aurene directly IMing you inside your skull 

> ensure if, in the future Aurene goes rogue or is afflicted by some kind of illness, it doesn't grievously affect the commander/create plot holes

> further provide evidence that Aurene is not our pet and can make her own choices with her own abilities

> Ensure that people who may have differing opinions about Aurene don't feel smothered by her presence in the story

Edited May 9, 2022 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[ChronoPinoyX.7923]

As far as I can tell Caithe doesn't outrank the Commander as the Champion of Aurene. In fact if anything Caithe is just there to babysit Aurene for the most part.

Meanwhile the Commander went Ultra Instinct on EoD's final mission when fighting all of the Dragonvoid whilst Caithe got relegated to just being... there lel. The main reason it may feel like Caithe outranks the Commander as Aurene's champ (in my opinion) is because our character's role doesn't solely revolve around Aurene whereas Caithe's entire life post HoT seems to just revolve around Aurene and we never see Caithe take on any other roles during LW4, IBS and EoD. 

I think EoD did well enough to show that Caithe is just a babysitter. Every aspect of Aurene's mission ever since meeting Soo-Won relied on having the Commander around. Caithe just happens to be there because reasons. 

[The Greyhawk.9107]

I think this is all an over-reaction to a single scene where Caithe is merely taking care of the (effectively) injured Aurene, like a nurse or as ChronoPinoyX put it a babysitter.  She doesn't outrank the Commander in any way shape or form just because she shooed the Commander away in order to make sure Aurene got some rest.

[Valisha.8650]

Story in this game is a joke anyway. No actual choices, no character/class flavor, no "different paths, same goal" thingy like in SWTOR, no moral choices, tons of inconsistencies like the one you made this post about. It feels like it was all made for an average 7yo who always wants to be a knight in a shiny armor, and is too busy saving the world to notice the problems I mentioned.

And don't even get me started how badly the dialogs are made. Person who cares about them can't properly engage because of how passive they are, and a person who does not care about them can't even skip them.

[DanAlcedo.3281]

22 hours ago, Valisha.8650 said:

Story in this game is a joke anyway. No actual choices, no character/class flavor, no "different paths, same goal" thingy like in SWTOR, no moral choices, tons of inconsistencies like the one you made this post about. It feels like it was all made for an average 7yo who always wants to be a knight in a shiny armor, and is too busy saving the world to notice the problems I mentioned.

And don't even get me started how badly the dialogs are made. Person who cares about them can't properly engage because of how passive they are, and a person who does not care about them can't even skip them.

Sir. This is a Wend... I mean MMO. 

 

[Valisha.8650]

9 hours ago, DanAlcedo.3281 said:

Sir. This is a Wend... I mean MMO. 

 

I do not see why an MMO can't have a solid story that's not like a Disney Channel movie.

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

47 minutes ago, Valisha.8650 said:

I do not see why an MMO can't have a solid story that's not like a Disney Channel movie.

scope and budget, as the tl;dr

MMOs have a vastly different scope than your typical SP RPG in that they're far more mechanical focused than story focused due to the singular drive of players' wants in gameplay, which is, well, gameplay. ArenaNet is also not as well funded as Bioware or EA, to use your SWTOR comparison. They also use different engines that are focused on different things - GW2's engine is derived from heavily modifying GW1's engine, which was built in-house for a game which was focused around its gameplay before story, as it was originally designed with the intention of leading players into PvP, with the PvE gameplay being a story-driven tutorial (this changed due to the high interest in GW1's PvE gameplay and that led to GW2).

 

In short, you're basically saying "why isn't this not-as-well funded company who's roots are focused around game mechanics/aesthetics over story not doing as good of a story as this well funded and better known company who's roots are focused around story first and aesthetics/mechanics second?"

And yet, GW2's story is still leagues above most MMOs out there.

[Kalavier.1097]

Also, IIRC and may be wrong, but from what I heard SWTOR's story has gone downhill in terms of quality, where it was best when you had the six classes all having a unique pathline and arc, but that was tossed aside in favor of "Everybody is in the same path now" and the quality of the produced story isn't nearly as great as it once was?

At launch TOR was described to me once as "An RPG with multiplayer elements." vs an MMO. I've heard the phrase "GW1 was the better RPG, but GW2 is the better MMO."

To be fair, what MMO goes close to early game story options like TOR does with the class stories?

[Valisha.8650]

13 hours ago, Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

scope and budget, as the tl;dr

MMOs have a vastly different scope than your typical SP RPG in that they're far more mechanical focused than story focused due to the singular drive of players' wants in gameplay, which is, well, gameplay. ArenaNet is also not as well funded as Bioware or EA, to use your SWTOR comparison. They also use different engines that are focused on different things - GW2's engine is derived from heavily modifying GW1's engine, which was built in-house for a game which was focused around its gameplay before story, as it was originally designed with the intention of leading players into PvP, with the PvE gameplay being a story-driven tutorial (this changed due to the high interest in GW1's PvE gameplay and that led to GW2).

 

In short, you're basically saying "why isn't this not-as-well funded company who's roots are focused around game mechanics/aesthetics over story not doing as good of a story as this well funded and better known company who's roots are focused around story first and aesthetics/mechanics second?"

And yet, GW2's story is still leagues above most MMOs out there.

Sure, that would explain the mechanical stuff and engine-related stuff. Yet still does not answer the question of why is the story writing so noticeably childish. It's almost like a fantasy superhero movie.

[Kalavier.1097]

32 minutes ago, Valisha.8650 said:

Sure, that would explain the mechanical stuff and engine-related stuff. Yet still does not answer the question of why is the story writing so noticeably childish. It's almost like a fantasy superhero movie.

I'd be curious to what MMO's have what you consider "adult writing"?

[Trise.2865]

The Commander is Aurene's champion. Caithe is Aurene's avatar. Caithe IS Aurene.