Edits to Return of Scarlet's War

[SunRoamer.5103]

The newest announcement post regarding the return of Season 1, starting in two weeks, mentioned that ANet has "taken this opportunity to edit some of the older text and add some additional lore books".

This makes me incredibly happy, although we will have to see just how common and far-reaching these adjustments will be. To be fair though, even the tiny singular change made to Season 2 during the "Return to"-achievements improved the flow of the story immensely in my opinion, so it might not need much. I think one of the must-haves in this case is the short story written from Scarlet's perspective of when she entered Omadd's machine - and I believe there were other short stories posted on the official website, such as Marjory's background story. This also really makes me yearn for the (gradual) inclusion of lore books in all pre-Season 4 content.

While there isn't much to discuss as of now, please feel free to post any changes you come across once the update goes live so that we can collect them in this thread. I will update the OP accordingly.

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As originally released, Living World Season 1 wasn’t designed to fit within the Story Journal, so we’ve restructured the content to feel more natural alongside our modern content. These old instances didn’t need to be played in a specific order, so we wanted to make sure that Season 1 felt playable in a more linear fashion. We’ve also made small, impactful adjustments to make the story feel complete and fleshed out given these changes. Our standard of storytelling has evolved over the last ten years, so we’ve taken this opportunity to edit some of the older text and add some additional lore books in Episode 1 to meet our current standards and characterization.

 

General note about the return of Lost Shores/Southsun:

• An interview with GameRant confirms that Lost Shores/Southsun will not return in the LS1 re-release.

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Obviously, the Guild Wars 2 holiday events, such as Wintersday or the Super Adventure Box, were easy cuts from Scarlet's War, but other story arcs are being culled from the story as well. The Southsun Cove arc is one such casualty, as ArenaNet decided to focus on Scarlet Briar and her schemes first and foremost with the rerun of Living World Season 1. Unfortunately, this means characters introduced in that chapter, like Ellen Kiel and Canach, will have to be introduced elsewhere in the narrative.

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Luckily, these old checkpoints also mean characters whose first introductions were the victims story cuts, like Kiel and Canach, can simply use later intro points.

 

Edits to Flame and Frost:

• Eight lore books were added in episode 1, Flame and Frost. These explore the lore of the Molten Alliance and, more interestingly, talk about character that will become more important much later during the Icebrood Saga (Crecia and Efram) and End of Dragons (Renyak). Some characters mentioned in these texts - Vova and Vastya/Vostya (spelling?) for the dredge, Sentius and Falx for the charr - are possibly entirely new.
• Previously unnamed bosses are now given names. Marat is the dredge fought in the hatchery. Caros Burntgrip is the brother of Renyak and leads the attack on Cragstead. Gigarg and Rodion are the dual bosses of the Molten Furnace dungeon.  
• Dialogue from Prelude and The Gathering Storm releases seemingly wasn't brought back.
• No refuge camp in Lion's Arch, NPCs were moved to Black Citadel or Hoelbrak instead
• The interactibles, NPCs and events in Wayfarer Foothills were not restored, unlike in Diessa Plateau.
• Dialogue between Ottilia and Braham is missing, the line by Braham when asked about her in the Molten Furnace is entirely different and changes their story entirely.

13 hours ago, Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

That dialogue is all leftover from Season 1 it seems. I don't think they actively chose to bring it back, but rather just reactivated all of the NPCs and most(all?) Diessa events at the moment of The Razing release (the third release that gave us the Braham and Rox instances). All the Prelude and The Gathering Storm dialogue is MIA from the related NPCs, as well as everything in Wayfarer's (even the dead merchant or the phase-able objects and NPCs as done in Diessa; a bit of a shame).

10 hours ago, Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

It did not make it into the patch, even worse, they completely retconned Ottilia's character, and in a manner that feels very weird to do - goes from being Braham's crush that ends up too naive for her own good (dumps Braham in favor of a merchant after making him hunt rabbits because he's "not worldly enough" for her), into... an ex-crush-instant-reject on better than good terms who helped Braham work through his mother issues that he still talks about in both this release and Season 2...

It's a very weird choice to do, in a single line of dialogue.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/The_Battle_for_Cragstead#Cragstead

The original line was this, for reference:

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Braham_-_Retake_Cragstead#Dialogue

Not only disappointing they didn't bring back the epilogue stuff, but just as weird that they decided "nah, it didn't happen that way".

Further updates pending.

Edited April 21, 2022 by SunRoamer.5103

[Kalavier.1097]

Wait, what was the edit to season 2 during the return?

[Tyson.5160]

1 hour ago, Kalavier.1097 said:

Wait, what was the edit to season 2 during the return?

The one that comes to mind is adding Mordremoth to one of the books during Scarlets secret room so the name Mordremoth doesn’t come out of left field from Kasmeer.

[SunRoamer.5103]

11 hours ago, Kalavier.1097 said:

Wait, what was the edit to season 2 during the return?

What Tyson wrote. It was a miniscule change that I didn't even realise was there until after Kasmeer said it and I thought "wait, why doesn't her saying Mordremoth feel as sudden and awkward this time around?".

My playing schedule was extremely irregular during Season 1 and I had trouble caring about the content even when I did play - the Karka invasions were a pure lagfest and then Flame and Frost began with lighting torches somewhere, plus at some point my laptop died. So in my case, it will be a fresh experience anyways, however from YouTube content and lore discussions on the forum and reddit I know enough about some of the more irksome story details and flow during the season.

[Lotus.8574]

Reading that quote, my mind immediately goes to replacing guns with walkie talkies or pictures of beloved characters with fruit. Putting those thoughts  aside, adding Season 1 in a easy to digest format is brilliant, and the game needs those stories back into the game 100%, in whatever form it takes honestly.

[Bobby Stein.3612]

Really happy to hear these kinds of responses. Touching up old content can sometimes cause concern that we're changing too much or ruining the original experience, but S1 in my opinion had a lot of potential but since it was our first go of Living World there were a lot of rough edges. We're trying to smooth those out a bit and do a better job of conveying characters and their arcs where we can, without adding scope. Books, conversations, and targeted new or revised VO can go a long way IMO.

[TheQuickFox.3826]

1 hour ago, Bobby Stein.3612 said:

Really happy to hear these kinds of responses. Touching up old content can sometimes cause concern that we're changing too much or ruining the original experience, but S1 in my opinion had a lot of potential but since it was our first go of Living World there were a lot of rough edges. We're trying to smooth those out a bit and do a better job of conveying characters and their arcs where we can, without adding scope. Books, conversations, and targeted new or revised VO can go a long way IMO.

 

Don't worry too much, the great majority never had the original experience, and will be happy to finally be able to experience the full story. 🙂

Ty for your work to bring LW S1 finally to all players. In my case: I've been playing since the pre-release headstart weekend but I missed all of LW S1 because I was still discovering the base game by then.

[Zola.6197]

3 hours ago, Bobby Stein.3612 said:

Really happy to hear these kinds of responses. Touching up old content can sometimes cause concern that we're changing too much or ruining the original experience, but S1 in my opinion had a lot of potential but since it was our first go of Living World there were a lot of rough edges. We're trying to smooth those out a bit and do a better job of conveying characters and their arcs where we can, without adding scope. Books, conversations, and targeted new or revised VO can go a long way IMO.

Yeah, the thought of tweaking things to make the story flow as good as possible is pretty exciting. I also love the idea of new conversations, too. Round characters out, round events out. All sounds very exciting! Will there be any completely new scenes or instances to expand on characters and plot developments? Or is it mostly functional additions to smooth transitions between segments of the existing content?

 

I wonder if Marjory’s first unsolved case (Mendel’s murder, her old partner iirc) or Kasmeer’s scummy brother (Kyle Meade) might ever gain relevance again in the future with the return of this content?  Loved Marjory’s Looking Back achievement and getting to see her get some closure on Belinda and meet her other sisters. Love to see more of that kind of thing for major characters. 🙂

Edited April 6, 2022 by Zola.6197

[Zok.4956]

15 hours ago, Bobby Stein.3612 said:

Really happy to hear these kinds of responses. Touching up old content can sometimes cause concern that we're changing too much or ruining the original experience, but S1 in my opinion had a lot of potential but since it was our first go of Living World there were a lot of rough edges. We're trying to smooth those out a bit and do a better job of conveying characters and their arcs where we can, without adding scope. Books, conversations, and targeted new or revised VO can go a long way IMO.

My most intense GW2 Living World episode of all times is "Escape from Lion's Arch". Not because of fight mechanics, challenge and such but because of the story and general mood and intense atmosphere in the map: We really lost and now we have to save as much people as  we can.

I think, the "remake" S1 will not ruin the original experience. It will be a different S1 and the fond memories of the "original" S1 will continue to exist regardless what the "remake" S1 will be. Part of the reason S1 was so epic and impressive was because we really changed the world and there was no "reset"-button. 

Something similar happened already with the Marionette.  It was one of my highlights in S1, many people have asked for a return of the Marionette fight, but now the remake doesn't seem to interest many players anymore.

 

 

 

 

[Kalavier.1097]

3 minutes ago, Zok.4956 said:

My most intense GW2 Living World episode of all times is "Escape from Lion's Arch". Not because of fight mechanics, challenge and such but because of the story and general mood and intense atmosphere in the map: We really lost and now we have to save as much people as  we can.

I think, the "remake" S1 will not ruin the original experience. It will be a different S1 and the fond memories of the "original" S1 will continue to exist regardless what the "remake" S1 will be. Part of the reason S1 was so epic and impressive was because we really changed the world and there was no "reset"-button. 

Something similar happened already with the Marionette.  It was one of my highlights in S1, many people have asked for a return of the Marionette fight, but now the remake doesn't seem to interest many players anymore.

 

 

 

 

 

Did they fix the Marionette having no public battle thing? I remember hearing about that a while back. Honestly, while I loved returning to it i drifted away just because I focused on other stuff.

 

Honestly it'll be interesting to see how they handle parts as either instances or world boss things. I was in Sorrow's Furnace back then so we only got a few good runs before the population dwindled down and we couldn't get wins at all, so I never had the chance to run those battles often and get the great loot.

 

 

[Zok.4956]

11 minutes ago, Kalavier.1097 said:

Did they fix the Marionette having no public battle thing? I remember hearing about that a while back. Honestly, while I loved returning to it i drifted away just because I focused on other stuff.

Hopefully the existing "standalone" Twisted Marionette will be brought back into the S1 remake and given better visibility and access to it.

[Bobby Stein.3612]

19 hours ago, Zola.6197 said:

Yeah, the thought of tweaking things to make the story flow as good as possible is pretty exciting. I also love the idea of new conversations, too. Round characters out, round events out. All sounds very exciting! Will there be any completely new scenes or instances to expand on characters and plot developments? Or is it mostly functional additions to smooth transitions between segments of the existing content?

I can't really talk about any of that just yet, but I do want to set expectations appropriately and say that the updates are small and targeted. This isn't a remaster but a restoration. So, mostly functional tweaks with a few new or revised narrative bits to better convey moments sprinkled throughout the season.

[Zola.6197]

38 minutes ago, Bobby Stein.3612 said:

I can't really talk about any of that just yet, but I do want to set expectations appropriately and say that the updates are small and targeted. This isn't a remaster but a restoration. So, mostly functional tweaks with a few new or revised narrative bits to better convey moments sprinkled throughout the season.

Ah, thank you for the clarity! Good to know.

[ugrakarma.9416]

its deserve a party.

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

On 4/6/2022 at 1:29 PM, Bobby Stein.3612 said:

Really happy to hear these kinds of responses. Touching up old content can sometimes cause concern that we're changing too much or ruining the original experience, but S1 in my opinion had a lot of potential but since it was our first go of Living World there were a lot of rough edges. We're trying to smooth those out a bit and do a better job of conveying characters and their arcs where we can, without adding scope. Books, conversations, and targeted new or revised VO can go a long way IMO.

As a long time fan of bringing back Season 1, I'm very hopeful about it. And very, very worried about some stuff not returning.

I know you don't want to talk about what will/won't be included in detail, but I am wondering if you can comment in regards to The Lost Shores and whether that will be returning or not? Seeing how it was before Flame and Frost and hasn't gotten mentioned yet.

Also, could you talk about how (or if) the revising will handle content that got scrapped due to time, scope, or budget? For example, the short story Welcome to Paradise or Canach's captivity dialogue were both part of Secret of Southsun / Last Stand at Southsun, but scrapped for (IIRC) time constraints. Similar with Kiel's victory speech. These things really added to character and story developments, so it was kinda sad they got scrapped.

Edited April 7, 2022 by Konig Des Todes.2086
Shortening it because I suck as short posts.

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

10 hours ago, Kalavier.1097 said:

Did they fix the Marionette having no public battle thing? I remember hearing about that a while back. Honestly, while I loved returning to it i drifted away just because I focused on other stuff.

Twisted Marionette has a public instance, but it's largely dead because of lacking rewards, high coordination requirements, and lack of visibility.

EoD also bugged out the minimap horribly with the new world map.

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Honestly it'll be interesting to see how they handle parts as either instances or world boss things. I was in Sorrow's Furnace back then so we only got a few good runs before the population dwindled down and we couldn't get wins at all, so I never had the chance to run those battles often and get the great loot.

Storywise, there were only four (five if you separate Escape from LA and Battle for LA) big open world story moments - The Lost Shores; Tower of Nightmares; Twisted Marionette, which is already returned; and EfLA/BfLA. Theoretically, ToN and BfLA were both separate zones so could possibly return as instanced "world bosses" (ToN was just climbing the tower though so, who knows).

I say theoretically because whether it can or can't depends on technical knowledge that only ANet devs are privy to AFAIK. From what's visible to players, though, it should work...

The Lost Shores would be trickier, but the sequences of what players did were simple enough that with a lot of nerfing the difficulty they could be made instances (even using old LA like the PS). The Ancient Karka final fight could even make a good instanced world boss like TM and Dragonstorm, tbh.

Edited April 7, 2022 by Konig Des Todes.2086

[Bobby Stein.3612]

23 hours ago, Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

Also, could you talk about how (or if) the revising will handle content that got scrapped due to time, scope, or budget? For example, the short story Welcome to Paradise or Canach's captivity dialogue were both part of Secret of Southsun / Last Stand at Southsun, but scrapped for (IIRC) time constraints. Similar with Kiel's victory speech. These things really added to character and story developments, so it was kinda sad they got scrapped.

Good question. I can't talk about that at the moment but I very much appreciate being reminded of stuff like this, because we have a smattering of content that was written, voiced, and in some cases partially built from nearly a decade ago that never made it to ship. Where possible I do like to be reminded of what we have in case there are opportunities to do something with it later.

[Nebilim.5127]

Amazing work Bobby, this is one of the key things that new players needed to get in the game and not be completely lost, so this is awesome to hear even coming from a veteran player who is looking forward replaying all that old temporary content.

 

I just hope that one day, you guys take a good look at dungeons too because a good chunk of story is gated behind that content that is now kinda dead. One of the things that should be easy for you guys to to do is scale the story mode into single player like you did with Arah. I know you guys hate touching dungeons but this is also something much needed to keep new players onto the story rather than scared of getting into it because suddenly their story content turned into multiplayer. That's not mentioning the difficulties to ever find people who want to repeat a content that benefits nobody but new players.

Edited April 9, 2022 by Nebilim.5127

[SunRoamer.5103]

2 hours ago, Nebilim.5127 said:

I just hope that one day, you guys take a good look at dungeons too because a good chunk of story is gated behind that content that is now kinda dead. One of the things that should be easy for you guys to to do is scale the story mode into single player like you did with Arah. I know you guys hate touching dungeons but this is also something much needed to keep new players onto the story rather than scared of getting into it because suddenly their story content turned into multiplayer. That's not mentioning the difficulties to ever find people who want to repeat a content that benefits nobody but new players.

If you want to be very optimistic, the steam release and its associated "cleaning up some aspects of the early game experience" that was mentioned in the Studio Update might do this since it will touch upon the 2014 New Player Experience changes and might therefore modify how the Personal Story is spread out throughout the game. This could open up some room to squeeze story mode dungeons in there.

The corresponding PC Gamer article went into a bit more detail:

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"Back in 2014, we took a 'massive overhaul' approach to revising the new player experience with limited success, and some may argue that the changes made back then didn't do the game any favors," Davis says about the improvements being planned. "This time around, we're primarily looking at making small, incremental changes that add up big improvements over time. Each of these incremental changes are being deployed as an experiment in an "A/B" test format, meaning we'll test the changes in the Live game with a small number of players, study the results, and then decide to make the change permanent, further iterate on it, or remove it from the game. We'll be making these changes every few weeks, with multiple experiments running simultaneously. We'll communicate any permanent additions to the game once they've made it through testing."

We know that there are some experiments running right now where certain new accounts level way faster than others.

Like I said: very optimistic 😅

Edited April 9, 2022 by SunRoamer.5103

[Terter.4125]

On 4/8/2022 at 10:49 PM, Bobby Stein.3612 said:

Good question. I can't talk about that at the moment but I very much appreciate being reminded of stuff like this, because we have a smattering of content that was written, voiced, and in some cases partially built from nearly a decade ago that never made it to ship. Where possible I do like to be reminded of what we have in case there are opportunities to do something with it later.

I feel like Bobby Stein is in charge of the returning of Season 1. Yo, Bobby, gives us some spoilers please.

Spoiler

Are we killing Scarlet once more?

 

[Bobby Stein.3612]

22 hours ago, Terter.4125 said:

I feel like Bobby Stein is in charge of the returning of Season 1.

Nah, I'm just happy we're bringing it back. I'm involved, sure, just like any other discipline director at the studio. But I'm not driving the development other than to advise on the story stuff.

22 hours ago, Terter.4125 said:

Yo, Bobby, gives us some spoilers please.

LOL. No.

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

1 hour ago, Bobby Stein.3612 said:

Nah, I'm just happy we're bringing it back. I'm involved, sure, just like any other discipline director at the studio. But I'm not driving the development other than to advise on the story stuff.

LOL. No.

Yo Bobby, where's our Return to Flame and Frost trailer drop? 😿

[Zola.6197]

1 hour ago, Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

Yo Bobby, where's our Return to Flame and Frost trailer drop? 😿

I was really hoping we’d get a trailer yesterday too!

[TGMChrist.2678]

10 minutes ago, Zola.6197 said:

I was really hoping we’d get a trailer yesterday too!

Yes Bobby, where is the trailer?

[TheThief.8475]

Maybe friday? Hope they don't do it on the 19th when WoW has the expansion reveal 🙂