You have no excuse not to get into raids now

[NorthernRedStar.3054]

Virtuoso and mechanist steamroll damage with low intensity rotations. Will probably get nerfed soon, but until then this is as easy as it's gonna get.

[Obtena.7952]

Not having low intensity builds wasn't what was preventing people from doing raids so 🤷‍♂️

Edited April 11, 2022 by Obtena.7952

[NorthernRedStar.3054]

8 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Not having low intensity builds wasn't what was preventing people from doing raids so 🤷‍♂️

Do damage, skip mechanics - regardless of pug or organized. Go, go, GO!

[Obtena.7952]

14 minutes ago, NorthernRedStar.3054 said:

Do damage, skip mechanics - regardless of pug or organized. Go, go, GO!

Let's be clear ... low intensity builds ALWAYS existed. Not having them wasn't the reason people didn't do raids. In fact, I would say that using a low intensity build in the wrong team was one of the REASONS people didn't raid because those teams didn't want them and that's how those people wanted to play.  Those teams didn't want a suboptimal DPS builds then, they don't want them now.

You should actually change the title of your thread to:

You have no reason to kick people from your teams because of their builds now. 

Edited April 11, 2022 by Obtena.7952

[Hotride.2187]

But I dont have a stack of LI. How can I even begin to raid?

Sorry I couldnt resist.

[IAmNotMatthew.1058]

44 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

You have no reason to kick people from your teams because of their builds now. 

If they bring their LI DPS builds into squads asking for Healers they still have a reason to kick them.

[Obtena.7952]

10 minutes ago, IAmNotMatthew.1058 said:

If they bring their LI DPS builds into squads asking for Healers they still have a reason to kick them.

Sure, but the sentiment expressed by the OP here is that people didn't join raids because they didn't have 'easy' builds to play. The fact is that they did and it's more likely the reason they didn't join raids is because some teams didn't want people playing those easy builds. I suspect nothing has changed because easy builds always existed and those teams are still not going to want them. 

Edited April 11, 2022 by Obtena.7952

[IAmNotMatthew.1058]

22 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Sure, but the sentiment expressed by the OP here is that people didn't join raids because they didn't have 'easy' builds to play. The fact is that they did and it's more likely the reason they didn't join raids is because some teams didn't want people playing those easy builds. I suspect nothing has changed because easy builds always existed and those teams are still not going to want them. 

If someone joins a 250LI group with a build like those then they will possibly get kicked out for "sub par" DPS, but with that I'm essentially saying someone trying Raids for the first time somehow has 250LI to join those groups.
If  you roll up to a group telling you to know mechanics or is labeled as training noone will bat an eye on what you play.

[Sobx.1758]

1 hour ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Let's be clear ... low intensity builds ALWAYS existed. Not having them wasn't the reason people didn't do raids. In fact, I would say that using a low intensity build in the wrong team was one of the REASONS people didn't raid because those teams didn't want them and that's how those people wanted to play.  Those teams didn't want a suboptimal DPS builds then, they don't want them now.

You should actually change the title of your thread to:

You have no reason to kick people from your teams because of their builds now. 

Lets make it clear right away: the claim about people getting somehow broadly kicked from the squads for playing anything other than "the optimal dps build/s" is false. Maybe some players do it, "some players" do almost anything you can think of. But that doesn't mean it's the norm. Even joining the infamous 250 LI squads, nobody checks your builds/gear or requires top tier dps. So stop pretending they do.

One thing I agree with is that the excuse OP talks about (easy builds with good enough dps to play lfg squads) was never a valid excuse. And that's exactly because the problem you're describing above is not the norm.

[Tren.5120]

3 hours ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Let's be clear ... low intensity builds ALWAYS existed. Not having them wasn't the reason people didn't do raids. In fact, I would say that using a low intensity build in the wrong team was one of the REASONS people didn't raid because those teams didn't want them and that's how those people wanted to play.  Those teams didn't want a suboptimal DPS builds then, they don't want them now.

You should actually change the title of your thread to:

You have no reason to kick people from your teams because of their builds now. 

You're confusing LI Builds that do terrible DPS (like Minion Reaper - i.e. the lower eschelon of viability) with LI Builds that do competitive DPS - i.e. the upper eschelon of viability.

People didn't want LI builds because they were known for underperforming.  That attitude was based on the numerical data backing the performance of those builds - i.e. parses from raids as well as on Golems (best case scenario parse).  If a LI build is going to top the DPS meters, then I don't think anyone would ever have an issue with it.  The problem was not how intense they were; it was how they performed.  The "LI" aspect of those builds was completely irrelevant.

Envy is the only reason why someone would reject a LI build that performs well.  Basically, people who stigmatize and reject it simply because they decided to main the class that isn't benefitting from such a built (see: WotLK Arcane Mages in WoW developed such a reputation, as did TBC Destruction Warlocks... we all know about "Sunwell" - or, at least, every mage player did).

I do agree that some of these rotations are completely off-putting to some people.  This isn't a GW2-specific issue, either.  Lots of people in FFXIV completely avoided Summoner due to how ridiculous the rotation was, and in EverQuest people would choose to play Mage over Necromancer due to easier management and less rotational load.  In WoW, people chose Arcane even after Fire and Frost were buffed because it was known for being a laughably easy rotation (lots of complaints when Arcane was basically top DPS spec with 4 buttons or something like that).

And yes, I think it's completely valid for a raid group to kick someone playing e.g. Minion Reaper when they could play Condi Scourge.  Why waste a spot on someone who - even if they're the best ever - will be outperformed by someone who is merely "good enough" on a different eSpec or Profession.  People owe you your human respect.  They do not owe you "nice."  They are not obligated to waste more time than necessary simply to make someone feel good playing an underperforming build simply because they don't want to play piano while raiding.  It sucks for those people who want something more relaxing so they can... actually enjoy playing the game...  But a raid group should not suffer for your preferences.  That's not how things work.

Edited April 12, 2022 by Tren.5120

[Obtena.7952]

1 hour ago, Tren.5120 said:

You're confusing LI Builds that do terrible DPS (like Minion Reaper - i.e. the lower eschelon of viability) with LI Builds that do competitive DPS - i.e. the upper eschelon of viability.

People didn't want LI builds because they were known for underperforming.  That attitude was based on the numerical data backing the performance of those builds - i.e. parses from raids as well as on Golems (best case scenario parse).  If a LI build is going to top the DPS meters, then I don't think anyone would ever have an issue with it.  The problem was not how intense they were; it was how they performed.  The "LI" aspect of those builds was completely irrelevant.

Envy is the only reason why someone would reject a LI build that performs well.  Basically, people who stigmatize and reject it simply because they decided to main the class that isn't benefitting from such a built (see: WotLK Arcane Mages in WoW developed such a reputation, as did TBC Destruction Warlocks... we all know about "Sunwell" - or, at least, every mage player did).

I do agree that some of these rotations are completely off-putting to some people.  This isn't a GW2-specific issue, either.  Lots of people in FFXIV completely avoided Summoner due to how ridiculous the rotation was, and in EverQuest people would choose to play Mage over Necromancer due to easier management and less rotational load.  In WoW, people chose Arcane even after Fire and Frost were buffed because it was known for being a laughably easy rotation (lots of complaints when Arcane was basically top DPS spec with 4 buttons or something like that).

And yes, I think it's completely valid for a raid group to kick someone playing e.g. Minion Reaper when they could play Condi Scourge.  Why waste a spot on someone who - even if they're the best ever - will be outperformed by someone who is merely "good enough" on a different eSpec or Profession.  People owe you your human respect.  They do not owe you "nice."  They are not obligated to waste more time than necessary simply to make someone feel good playing an underperforming build simply because they don't want to play piano while raiding.  It sucks for those people who want something more relaxing so they can... actually enjoy playing the game...  But a raid group should not suffer for your preferences.  That's not how things work.

I'm not confusing anything. The OP was implying people were using 'builds' as an excuse to not do raids. That's NEVER been an excuse that people use to not do raids because people are taking the builds they intend to use into raidgroups. It's only EVER been an excuse for teams to refuse players.

So the 'solution' here isn't that people adopt low intensity builds. The 'solution' here is the same it's always been ... for team makers to stop excluding people for the builds they play. 

Edited April 12, 2022 by Obtena.7952

[Linken.6345]

45 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

I'm not confusing anything. The OP was implying people were using 'builds' as an excuse to not do raids. That's NEVER been an excuse that people use to not do raids because people are taking the builds they intend to use into raidgroups. It's only EVER been an excuse for teams to refuse players.

So the 'solution' here isn't that people adopt low intensity builds. The 'solution' here is the same it's always been ... for team makers to stop excluding people for the builds they play. 

You and anyone else are more then welcome to do all welcome squads in the lfg mate it have never been anyone blocking you from doing that.

[Krzysztof.5973]

30 minutes ago, Linken.6345 said:

You and anyone else are more then welcome to do all welcome squads in the lfg mate it have never been anyone blocking you from doing that.

Don't try to convince Obtena of anything raid-related. Seething hatred towards raids is a given. Just love them for who they are ❤ 

[Obtena.7952]

54 minutes ago, Linken.6345 said:

You and anyone else are more then welcome to do all welcome squads in the lfg mate it have never been anyone blocking you from doing that.

Of course people can, and do. That's true and I agree ... but that's not related to the point I'm making about what the OP said. 

 

Edited April 12, 2022 by Obtena.7952

[knite.1542]

Even if there was a build that 1 shot raid bosses and literally couldn't die, there would still be people that could not do raids.

 

Builds ain't the issue for most people I'd imagine. Pre barrier nerf scourge was already more than capable of carrying people.

Edited April 12, 2022 by knite.1542

[Sena.2761]

Eh, I don't know. I've never done one and until EoD strikes I never wanted to do any 10 man content. I lead those strikes daily now and have considered maybe making an LFG for the first one, VG I think it's called?

 

But I don't know mechanics or specific roles unique to it, plus aren't these things largely organized on Discord now? It was really fun leading Strikes since they were new and everyone was learning together, but these are mostly solved and most people with the experience and know-how to do them have sequestered themselves within Discords, so I probably wouldn't get anyone able to explain the finer details a Wiki read wouldn't give me.

 

Also I've heard they take like 2 hours per Wing, whatever that is? That's a bit more than I really wanna commit. I'll just stick to T4s and Strikes.

[Mell.4873]

My problem is time vs reward, its just not worth it to raid for me. 

[Sobx.1758]

16 hours ago, Obtena.7952 said:

I'm not confusing anything. The OP was implying people were using 'builds' as an excuse to not do raids. That's NEVER been an excuse that people use to not do raids because people are taking the builds they intend to use into raidgroups.

You read enough threads on this forum to simply know what you've just said is a lie. Plenty of people complained -and still do it now- about "not being able to do x content/dps" because they don't want to play complicated builds. Then when the most simplistic build gets linked to them, they claim that one would be too boring. Overally some of the players complaining on the forum about availability of the content try to use build variety as a reason they can't do it. But as I said above, it's a false claim -either made intentionally or due to being misinformed.

On another subforum there's a recent series of posts that directly show what I'm talking about btw.

Quote

It's only EVER been an excuse for teams to refuse players.

And that's also a lie, as I said above, checking for builds -and subsequentially trying to exclude players for not being "meta"- is not even close to the norm.

Quote

So the 'solution' here isn't that people adopt low intensity builds. The 'solution' here is the same it's always been ... for team makers to stop excluding people for the builds they play. 

The solution here is for some people to stop trying to use false reasoning for why they don't want to do something. If some of those complaints were/are genuine, then it means those players just lack some information and sharing that information with them is useful in order to help them.

Edited April 12, 2022 by Sobx.1758

[Mithrilos.8036]

Lol this topic again ? Raids arn't for everyone in a way that people are just not looking for it. Stop trying to force it onto us.

What can do whatever you want with raids, I'm not putting my foot in them.

[Yellow Rainbow.6142]

I have 1 excuse. I don't like content even though I grinded for Armor sets.

[IAmNotMatthew.1058]

1 hour ago, Mithrilos.8036 said:

Lol this topic again ? Raids arn't for everyone in a way that people are just not looking for it. Stop trying to force it onto us.

What can do whatever you want with raids, I'm not putting my foot in them.

Noone is trying to force people into Raids. This thread is about the "I can't deal damage because this/that is too complex" reason some people use to justify why they aren't Raiding, it's not a "take this build and now go and raid".
It's just telling people that if complex rotations were their problem now these builds are more popular.

[Sarius.9285]

10 hours ago, Mell.4873 said:

My problem is time vs reward, its just not worth it to raid for me. 

I mean once you're done with daily fractals and strikes, doing a few raid bosses(especially with Call of the Mists) is not a bad gold/h plus they're alot more fun than open world 

[Legend of Rogue.5394]

23 hours ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Let's be clear ... low intensity builds ALWAYS existed. Not having them wasn't the reason people didn't do raids. In fact, I would say that using a low intensity build in the wrong team was one of the REASONS people didn't raid because those teams didn't want them and that's how those people wanted to play.  Those teams didn't want a suboptimal DPS builds then, they don't want them now.

You should actually change the title of your thread to:

You have no reason to kick people from your teams because of their builds now. 

I dont do raids because I am 30 years old and cant sacrifice 3 consistent hours on killing a boss. I wish I could but I got family, work life gym, sports athletics etc, I get my hour here and there every day and thats it, Strikes are a way better option for people like me and or WvW

[NorthernRedStar.3054]

14 minutes ago, Legend of Rogue.5394 said:

I dont do raids because I am 30 years old and cant sacrifice 3 consistent hours on killing a boss. I wish I could but I got family, work life gym, sports athletics etc, I get my hour here and there every day and thats it, Strikes are a way better option for people like me and or WvW

It's only the learning curve. You can complete 2 wings in an hour after you've learned the mechanics and do decent dps. I'm sure you can spare a few hours every week to learn until you've gotten to that point.

[Legend of Rogue.5394]

Just now, NorthernRedStar.3054 said:

It's only the learning curve. You can complete 2 wings in an hour after you've learned the mechanics and do decent dps. I'm sure you can spare a few hours every week to learn until you've gotten to that point.

I realistically do not enjoy PvE anymore.... Like I really am bored with it. Not having fun anymore so I go to WvW and just farm blobs.