Before the steam launch things need to be properly explained - namely the fact that there is content gated by further paywalls beyond the expansion purchase price.

[Mungrul.9358]

2 hours ago, DeanBB.4268 said:

Are Steam users all idiots?

"A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it."

[mythical.6315]

8 minutes ago, Cuks.8241 said:

Sure, explain that to the customer for whom the option 1 is non existent. We're sorry, we do not accept current time and perhaps in few years we will accept future time (no promise though) but we do accept $$$.

 

One option that they forgot to add is that players can exchange gold for gems and purchase episodes/seasons that way.

[Ashen.2907]

12 minutes ago, Cuks.8241 said:

Sure, explain that to the customer for whom the option 1 is non existent. We're sorry, we do not accept current time and perhaps in few years we will accept future time (no promise though) but we do accept $$$.

I suggested including LW seasons with the expansions...but even so, how is asking people to pay for the products they receive a bad thing?

 

And remember, if they arent spending on the game they are not customers, they are users.

Edited April 25, 2022 by Ashen.2907

[Kilplix.4512]

I haven't played since early 2013 but I was super excited about the steam release and I was planning to come back. I started to catch up on this living story thing and how bad is for returning/new players. Thanks for saving me my time and probably money I would spend. 

[Linken.6345]

1 hour ago, dippy.8961 said:

At this point, I feel like LW content should be included with the expansions.  LW1 & 2 with core, LW3 with HoT, and LW4 & 5 with PoF.  Absent that, bundle the already released LW content into one package that can be purchased outside of the gem store.

So you want them to sell standard editions core 65  bucks, hot 65 buck, pof 35 bucks and EoD 35 bucks

And that way you get all the living stories up to date?

Im not sure the people that will have to do this agree with you mate.

4 minutes ago, Kilplix.4512 said:

I haven't played since early 2013 but I was super excited about the steam release and I was planning to come back. I started to catch up on this living story thing and how bad is for returning/new players. Thanks for saving me my time and probably money I would spend. 

If you were super excited about steam release you would have had to buy+replay the game again on steam anyway.

They told us current accounts will not be converted into steam accounts.

[Cuks.8241]

3 minutes ago, Ashen.2907 said:

I suggested including LW seasons with the expansions...but even so, how is asking people to pay for the products they receive a bad thing?

Well we agree then.

But on second point. You have to adjust the price over the products lifetime according to the changing market and customer expectations. You have to keep market presence even if it means underselling some products or in this case older parts of the product to have better sales of the rest of your portfolio. 

[Ashen.2907]

37 minutes ago, Cuks.8241 said:

Well we agree then.

But on second point. You have to adjust the price over the products lifetime according to the changing market and customer expectations. You have to keep market presence even if it means underselling some products or in this case older parts of the product to have better sales of the rest of your portfolio. 

On that second part, sure...but you expressed your point as if asking people to pay for products was a bad thing. Prices go down over time for four primary reasons:

1) You are trying to entice people who were unwilling to pay your original price into giving you their money. These are people who liked what they saw but just couldnt justify the cost.

2) Your product is out of date (either due to advancing technology, changing tastes, and so on).

3) Increased competition.

4) A decision to use item A as a loss leader in order to generate greater revenue or profit from item B.

 

Personally I think that 4) is the most applicable here which is why I also think that a simplified/streamlined market increases consumer confidence when deciding to spend money.

[SepiaBrownie.7504]

100%! I agree with a lot of people that living world episodes should be packaged with expansions. With the way living world is presented, it looks like bonus content to the outsider. They're not going to know that it's core story content. I know this because that's what I thought when I first started playing. Imagine my surprise when I started HOT. I went from freshly defeating Zhaitan to crashing in a jungle with a bunch of strangers! 

 

Just personal opinion but, I think HOT and POF should be sold separately. Then package relative LW seasons with each expansion. I think that's just the easiest way to avoid confusion. 

[Vayne.8563]

15 hours ago, HowlKamui.5120 said:

Agreed.

 

Ngl some of those older content should be free at this point when you purchase the expansion. Otherwise, if this goes on, gw2 will be a very expensive mmo to completely have all the content of. 

I agree it's not long term sustainable, but right how if you bought WoW and played it for six months, it would be about that much money. If you played WoW for a year, be paying more than double everything you'd have to spend to get all of Guild Wars 2 now.

And you can farm gold to offset of of the cost if you want.  I'm thinking it's really not that bad yet. A year or two down the road, I don't know.

[Nole.3017]

They need to make all LW episodes free during first 2 weeks of Steam launch for everyone who logs in during that period and they need to market that heavily. That would MASSIVELY boost player numbers and it would affect reviews in a positive way.

[Ashen.2907]

20 minutes ago, Nole.3017 said:

They need to make all LW episodes free during first 2 weeks of Steam launch for everyone who logs in during that period and they need to market that heavily. That would MASSIVELY boost player numbers and it would affect reviews in a positive way.

You know, I like this. Not my first choice but an interesting alternative to some of the other suggestions floating around. 

[Ashen.2907]

52 minutes ago, Vayne.8563 said:

I agree it's not long term sustainable, but right how if you bought WoW and played it for six months, it would be about that much money. If you played WoW for a year, be paying more than double everything you'd have to spend to get all of Guild Wars 2 now.

And you can farm gold to offset of of the cost if you want.  I'm thinking it's really not that bad yet. A year or two down the road, I don't know.

I agree for the most part. The main point of differing opinion is that I believe that we have reached the point that you think might still be a couple years off.

[Tukaram.8256]

If a bundle is called "complete", it better be complete - including expansions and downloadable content (like living world).  They need to make it very clear that expansions are expansions, and living world is an extra charge.  They are just part of the story, and if people think they are getting the whole story, and all maps, but are not... yeah... bad marketing. 

Really though, at this point the living world should just come with the expansions.

[Vayne.8563]

1 hour ago, Ashen.2907 said:

I agree for the most part. The main point of differing opinion is that I believe that we have reached the point that you think might still be a couple years off.

It's the early part of the game I'm worried about.  I don't think they've reached that point and Anet doesn't think so either, but I don't think it's a couple of years off.

Some people love the leveling experience in this game, some find it boring. Anet is running tests now to see whether or not increasing experience will affect people staying longer. That needs to happen I think.

Also, a couple of the NPE changes were questionable to people. For me at least, reverting weapons back so that we unlock skills by using them is much better than what we have now. Furthermore, the story being in ten level increments hurts the game for some people, even though I prefer it.

 

That's the stuff that needs to be looked at.

[Linken.6345]

1 hour ago, Tukaram.8256 said:

If a bundle is called "complete", it better be complete - including expansions and downloadable content (like living world).  They need to make it very clear that expansions are expansions, and living world is an extra charge.  They are just part of the story, and if people think they are getting the whole story, and all maps, but are not... yeah... bad marketing. 

Really though, at this point the living world should just come with the expansions.

Im all for it let people pay 1 price for core+lw s2 and another for hot+s3 and another for pof+s4,ibs and lastly Eod+s6

Spit balling here but 65, 65, 35, and 40 sounds about right?

Reducde it alittle since some expansions are very old.

[battledrone.8315]

3 hours ago, Nole.3017 said:

They need to make all LW episodes free during first 2 weeks of Steam launch for everyone who logs in during that period and they need to market that heavily. That would MASSIVELY boost player numbers and it would affect reviews in a positive way.

exposing the steam crowd to LW madness before they are hooked is a very poor idea.

why do you think anet is trying to hide it in the first way? steam players will take one look at it, and install

another mmo instead. 

[dippy.8961]

5 hours ago, Linken.6345 said:

So you want them to sell standard editions core 65  bucks, hot 65 buck, pof 35 bucks and EoD 35 bucks

And that way you get all the living stories up to date?

Im not sure the people that will have to do this agree with you mate.

I don't know why HoT would cost more for less content in your math, but no, that's not what I'm saying at all.  I'm saying LW1 & 2 are almost a decade old, and they should flat out be free by this point.  Since you can't just buy HoT anymore, if enough money hasn't been made on the free content per "player's time", bring the price of HoT/PoF, plus all associated LW seasons (3, 4, 5), up to $45.  If that's not an option, then bundle the LW content into a $30-35 package.  Continuing to have the content locked behind the gem store has, and will push people away from it, for what ever their reasoning is.

[mythical.6315]

14 minutes ago, dippy.8961 said:

I don't know why HoT would cost more for less content in your math, but no, that's not what I'm saying at all.  I'm saying LW1 & 2 are almost a decade old, and they should flat out be free by this point.  Since you can't just buy HoT anymore, if enough money hasn't been made on the free content per "player's time", bring the price of HoT/PoF, plus all associated LW seasons (3, 4, 5), up to $45.  If that's not an option, then bundle the LW content into a $30-35 package.  Continuing to have the content locked behind the gem store has, and will push people away from it, for what ever their reasoning is.

So 10 year old games should be basically free too?  

[dippy.8961]

1 minute ago, mythical.6315 said:

So 10 year old games should be basically free too?

We're talking about GW2, not old games, though over in reddit I'm sure a case could be made for the rest of them, along with links to free emulators.  For GW2, the core game went free to play only 3 years after launch, so why not follow suite for some of the older content?  The value has to have deprecated by now, and the LW seasons contain important story arcs.  Why is the Commander so mad at Caithe in the beginning of HoT for example?  If you don't have LW2, you have no clue what's going on (and that's not to mention the LW1 gap that's being fixed right now).

[mythical.6315]

7 minutes ago, dippy.8961 said:

We're talking about GW2, not old games, though over in reddit I'm sure a case could be made for the rest of them, along with links to free emulators.  For GW2, the core game went free to play only 3 years after launch, so why not follow suite for some of the older content?  The value has to have deprecated by now, and the LW seasons contain important story arcs.  Why is the Commander so mad at Caithe in the beginning of HoT for example?  If you don't have LW2, you have no clue what's going on (and that's not to mention the LW1 gap that's being fixed right now).

And? You’re saying that something that’s basically 19 years old should be free. Why does it matter if it’s GW2 versus another game?

[Hotride.2187]

8 hours ago, Linken.6345 said:

They told us current accounts will not be converted into steam accounts.

Lolwat? I played PoE and Warframe via Steam with accounts that have nothing to do with my Steam account.

What did they mess up with GW2 for it to be different?

[dippy.8961]

1 minute ago, mythical.6315 said:

And? You’re saying that something that’s basically 19 years old should be free. Why does it matter if it’s GW2 versus another game?

Because this isn't the place to argue about the philosophies of other games.  We're talking about this game.  That's not to mention the number of games that have in fact become free as they've aged, or the slew of 10yo $4 games on Steam that likely only cost $4 to cover the listing fee.  

I shared an idea.  I didn't say it was a good idea, I didn't say a-net should do it my way or I'll quit.  I offered an opinion of what I think would increase the player base in regards to the LW content.  If you don't like it, move on, if you have something constructive to say, then say it, otherwise go argue in bad faith on reddit.

[mythical.6315]

18 minutes ago, dippy.8961 said:

Because this isn't the place to argue about the philosophies of other games.  We're talking about this game.  That's not to mention the number of games that have in fact become free as they've aged, or the slew of 10yo $4 games on Steam that likely only cost $4 to cover the listing fee.  

I shared an idea.  I didn't say it was a good idea, I didn't say a-net should do it my way or I'll quit.  I offered an opinion of what I think would increase the player base in regards to the LW content.  If you don't like it, move on, if you have something constructive to say, then say it, otherwise go argue in bad faith on reddit.

It doesn’t matter. The point I was making was that you felt one thing being 10 years old should be basically free. 

Edited April 26, 2022 by mythical.6315

[kokocabana.8153]

I bought the game back in Nov 2012 and played most of the way through LW season 1 before I left because I just didn't have time to keep up with the 2 week cycles. I just came back to the game in March after 9 years and I was willing to buy the HOT\POF or the one that included EOD at full price until I learned that the living story seasons weren't included. While I'm the kind of mmo player that is willing to grind for gold to convert into gems, this is a really hard ask for my other friends who I'm trying to bring over from other mmos. Especially for someone who plays mainly PVE for the story, it's a little confusing to buy a "complete edition" yet not receive a complete story that is supposed to flow naturally from one story content to the next. As it stands now, I'm waiting for the next sale on expansions and gems before I buy up everything.

 

Aside from the earlier suggestions about including it for free or maybe $5 or $10 extra on each expansion, I just thought of another idea that they could do with the steam release. They are already re-releasing season 1 over the course of the year. Why not continue "re-releasing" season 2 through 5 chapters after steam release like they did originally so that all these new players have a reason to stick around and follow along. Those that miss any of the chapters after will still have the current system of buying in gem store or possibly upfront through some new expansion bundle. Other MMOs have done progression servers where they start from the beginning and re-release content, this will be similar.

 

 

Edited April 26, 2022 by kokocabana.8153

[Xelqypla.6817]

Elder Scrolls Online exists. Living world is dirt cheap compared to their Non-Expansion paid content.