Please don't Nerf Virtuoso to much

[Mell.4873]

I mean I do stick up for Mesmer a lot but I'm having so much fun with hybrid Virtuoso especially in Fractals and Strikes.
I mean being able to pull 5k less DPS to heal is really making the whole build so much fun. It is basically a repeat of Mirage and alacrity.

I know their DPS at the moment is way to high in end-game content but still Arena Net don't go to crazy with the DPS drop.

 

PS. Don't flame me or this thread since I don't want it locked or for posts to be removed since you don't like me.

[Ombras.2853]

30 minutes ago, Mell.4873 said:

 

I know their DPS at the moment is way to high in end-game content

Well… it’s not.

[Mell.4873]

55 minutes ago, Ombras.2853 said:

Well… it’s not.

Most strikes and fractals they are top dps. 30k at the very least without banners and spirits.

Again that's not my point, it's just that hope Arena Net doesn't nerf them so I guess we agree then. 

Edited May 1, 2022 by Mell.4873

[Dante.1508]

Uh DPS isn't too high its just slightly better than all the other useless Mesmer classes.

[mungozen.2379]

4 hours ago, Mell.4873 said:

Most strikes and fractals they are top dps. 30k at the very least without banners and spirits.

Again that's not my point, it's just that hope Arena Net doesn't nerf them so I guess we agree then. 

Someone has to be top DPS and so far it appears that Virtuoso is not problematic in any content.  As Virtuoso is a selfish glass cannon with no alternate playstyle, it should probably be right at the top of the DPS charts anyway. 

I doubt it will be dramatically changed anytime soon, but it won't be top DPS forever either.  Unless Anet decides to make it completely unplayable, any DPS changes will most likely have no impact on actual gameplay.

Edited May 1, 2022 by Mungo Zen.9364

[Mell.4873]

2 hours ago, Mungo Zen.9364 said:

Someone has to be top DPS and so far it appears that Virtuoso is not problematic in any content.  As Virtuoso is a selfish glass cannon with no alternate playstyle, it should probably be right at the top of the DPS charts anyway. 

I doubt it will be dramatically changed anytime soon, but it won't be top DPS forever either.  Unless Anet decides to make it completely unplayable, any DPS changes will most likely have no impact on actual gameplay.

I hope you are right, I'm sure it will drop at least a little since its fully range. I would be happy with drop to 38k DPS, anything less and I will be sad.

[mungozen.2379]

34 minutes ago, Mell.4873 said:

I hope you are right, I'm sure it will drop at least a little since its fully range. I would be happy with drop to 38k DPS, anything less and I will be sad.

38k????  Why would you be okay with this?  Virtuoso has arguably less defense/sustain than Willbender, Mechanist and other 38k+ DPS builds (using Snowcrows as a reference).  The trade off for having top DPS is Virtuoso can't do anything but DPS and rely on other for boons and sustain.  Sure, you can do things like taking Inspiration but then you aren't running a 41k build anymore are you?

Besides, using these benchmarks as a reference for whether or not a build should be nerfed is absurd.  The average player isn't getting that type of DPS most of the time, because most of the time they aren't playing in a vacuum against a Golem executing a flawless rotation.

I might be topping DPS charts in group content on my CVirt, but that is more about me as a player, my build and gear choices, as I see other Virtuoso players all the time falling way short on DPS.  At the same time I see a variety of other Profs matching or exceeding my DPS in various content all the time.

While I wouldn't want to see Virtuoso lose 3k DPS (about 7% reduction) I also don't think there is much of a difference between the 10-15 specs that share the top position on the Snowcrows DPS chart.  When you consider many different PvE game scenarios, the best DPS are usually interchangeable and will be top DPS in some circumstances but not all.

 

Edited May 1, 2022 by Mungo Zen.9364

[Levetty.1279]

So Mell is just admitting that all his blind Virtuoso praise was just a way for him to get Virtuoso nerfed. I guess that is an improvement?

 

Also reminder that the benchmark for Virtuoso on snowcrows is only a couple of hundred higher then the next spot and uses unrealistic consumable selection.

[Puck.3697]

cant see virtuoso getting nerfed realistically.

Its only good in one game mode really and even then its nothing insane.. sure the buffs made it extremely annoying in SPVP due to buffing the wrong things, but its still not strong. its just unfun to play against lol.

I'd imagine it'll get left alone, if not indirectly buffed by other changes that'll likely happen to mesmer...

[mortrialus.3062]

19 hours ago, Mell.4873 said:

Most strikes and fractals they are top dps. 30k at the very least without banners and spirits.

Again that's not my point, it's just that hope Arena Net doesn't nerf them so I guess we agree then. 

Mesmers tend to have extremely solid grasps on their DPS rotations due to years spent in Chronojail.

[myun.6395]

19 hours ago, Daddy.8125 said:

cant see virtuoso getting nerfed realistically.

Its only good in one game mode really and even then its nothing insane.. sure the buffs made it extremely annoying in SPVP due to buffing the wrong things, but its still not strong. its just unfun to play against lol.

I'd imagine it'll get left alone, if not indirectly buffed by other changes that'll likely happen to mesmer...

Once harbi, willy and bunker vindi will get nerfed in the june patch, things like virtuoso and catalyst will have their opportunity to rise into the meta and people will start complain how broken they are, it's a cycle.

I am doing already very good on virtuoso, it's not meta, it's not mAT viable, but it's very playable.

Moa into sword5 into F1 (if you are power) or F2 (if you are condi) into scepter3 is a super deadly burst combo that not many are able to avoid.

Of course it doesn't land all the times, but even if you miss you, you have tons of defensives and pressure anyway.

Trust me and see ya after the june patch.

[mortrialus.3062]

45 minutes ago, myun.6395 said:

I am doing already very good on virtuoso, it's not meta, it's not mAT viable,

Imma stop you right there

[Mell.4873]

23 hours ago, Mungo Zen.9364 said:

38k????  Why would you be okay with this?  Virtuoso has arguably less defense/sustain than Willbender, Mechanist and other 38k+ DPS builds (using Snowcrows as a reference).  The trade off for having top DPS is Virtuoso can't do anything but DPS and rely on other for boons and sustain.  Sure, you can do things like taking Inspiration but then you aren't running a 41k build anymore are you?

Besides, using these benchmarks as a reference for whether or not a build should be nerfed is absurd.  The average player isn't getting that type of DPS most of the time, because most of the time they aren't playing in a vacuum against a Golem executing a flawless rotation.

I might be topping DPS charts in group content on my CVirt, but that is more about me as a player, my build and gear choices, as I see other Virtuoso players all the time falling way short on DPS.  At the same time I see a variety of other Profs matching or exceeding my DPS in various content all the time.

While I wouldn't want to see Virtuoso lose 3k DPS (about 7% reduction) I also don't think there is much of a difference between the 10-15 specs that share the top position on the Snowcrows DPS chart.  When you consider many different PvE game scenarios, the best DPS are usually interchangeable and will be top DPS in some circumstances but not all.

 

Yeah I agree I'm just saying I could live 38k but anything less I will probably complain. 

[Mell.4873]

21 hours ago, Levetty.1279 said:

So Mell is just admitting that all his blind Virtuoso praise was just a way for him to get Virtuoso nerfed. I guess that is an improvement?

 

Also reminder that the benchmark for Virtuoso on snowcrows is only a couple of hundred higher then the next spot and uses unrealistic consumable selection.

Well I was just pointing out how good it was before the golem benchmarks came though. I don't even use the meta build since run a hybrid and heal with my Virtuoso even in end-game content.

If anyone gets the blame for Virtuoso nerfs it would be snowcrow. I guess I'm just hoping my flavour of Virtuoso is barely affected. 

Edited May 2, 2022 by Mell.4873

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

3 hours ago, myun.6395 said:

Once harbi, willy and bunker vindi will get nerfed in the june patch, things like virtuoso and catalyst will have their opportunity to rise into the meta and people will start complain how broken they are, it's a cycle.

I am doing already very good on virtuoso, it's not meta, it's not mAT viable, but it's very playable.

Moa into sword5 into F1 (if you are power) or F2 (if you are condi) into scepter3 is a super deadly burst combo that not many are able to avoid.

Of course it doesn't land all the times, but even if you miss you, you have tons of defensives and pressure anyway.

Trust me and see ya after the june patch.

Do you even land sw5? 

Not even dolyaks are hit by it and they're slow.

[myun.6395]

1 hour ago, Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

Do you even land sw5? 

Not even dolyaks are hit by it and they're slow.

Sorry, i meant pistol5, i use sword pistol and i had in mind sword for some reason.

Moa into pistol5 into f1 or f2 into pistol4 if have it not on cd.

Of course the spec is underperforming if you watch the meta specs, but its not that far behind, especially when those will be nerfed prolly for sure in june.

[Mik.3401]

Condi Virtuoso is most often at the top of the dps meter because it has barely any rotation. So statistically more people will get the dps right. It’s like alac mirage just without boon provision and bit more dps.

if anything I’d request some buffs - the kit has very little cc in comparison to chrono which has only slightly lower dps - in practice not noticeable.

Edited May 2, 2022 by Mik.3401

[Mell.4873]

Just now, Mik.3401 said:

Condi Virtuoso is most often at the top of the dps meter because it has barely any rotation. So statistically more people will get the dps right. It’s like alac mirage just without alac and bit more dps.

if anything I’d request some buffs - the kit has very little cc in comparison to chrono which has only slightly liver dps - in practice not noticeable.

That and it can pierce though multiple enemies rather than relying on AoE or cleave damage. I can normally hit two bosses at once with my rotation so twice the damage.

[otto.5684]

I think a slight nerf to condi dps in PvE is fine. However, the power build is extremely lacking in sustain. Virtuoso is especially lacking in PvP, since sustain is kitten. If the June patch ends-up just a nerf to condi dps it will be a terrible patch.

[Mell.4873]

51 minutes ago, otto.5684 said:

I think a slight nerf to condi dps in PvE is fine. However, the power build is extremely lacking in sustain. Virtuoso is especially lacking in PvP, since sustain is kitten. If the June patch ends-up just a nerf to condi dps it will be a terrible patch.

Yeah I agree, I would love to see a power buff then maybe a can roll a full healer Virtuoso.