The ultimate proof that Mesmer is NOT fine in PvP

[Waffles.5632]

18 hours ago, Senqu.8054 said:

It doesn’t matter what any of those players think or say. What they say is just false. Mesmer has received round about 60 critical changes with only negative impact to traits. And only a minority of those changes have been 50% nerf. Most of those changes just deleted whole effects, skills, traits and mechanics. Core Mesmer has less then to vanilla times. Anyone coming to this game pretending mesmer is fine doesn’t know kitten about this game, period.
 

And that you have to explain to someone why clicking skills with a curser is just bad gameplay. It’s like the new intern at work that knows it better, because he has watched this one specific YouTube video and then programmed an arduino… once… without any object orientation… to let LEDs blink.

Here let me use your own logic and words against you.

It doesn't matter what you think or say. What you say is just false.

 

 

But more seriously...

That you have to explain to someone that players have literally beaten dark souls 3 with a banana. It does not matter in any way shape or form HOW you play, only that you are giving your best effort, having fun, and being a team player.

I would take a skillclicker over an afker or a pvper with a bad attitude any day of the week for pvp. Always.

I mean, you all play pvp w/o mouse clicking skills I assume, so again, this just using your own logic here...

If I am playing pvp on the worst spec of the worst class, one dodge 15k hp, no condi cleanse, no sustain, AND I click skills, and I'm still getting plat 1? Which is top 250 and has been for awhile now.

 

I must be a pvp god wow. Talk about challenge mode. I am prolly playing pvp on the hardest difficulty here out of anyone, and still have a 56% win rate!

Yeah, hopefully some of you realize how silly you sound now when you say skillclicker, as if that makes any difference what so ever about anything. You are only making me look better so keep doing it I suppose lol.

 

And in case I need to be clear, because by now it's proven some people just aren't reading. I do not think I am a pvp god, or anything like that. I am just having fun on Power Mirage and I do think it is a sleeper spec that has crazy pvp potential. This is my personal opinion. But I mean, come on these comments have been top tier, we are on page 5 and the best you guys can still say is skillclicker. lmfao. It's like you have no other argument.

 

Edited June 19, 2022 by Waffles.5632

[HowlKamui.5120]

22 hours ago, Waffles.5632 said:

 

Saying a class is fine in pvp is not the same as saying it does not need help or fixes. What kind of black and white thinking is that my goodness. So if I say Guardian is fine in pvp, does that mean firebrand does not need to be looked at for pvp?

You make no sense. Of course Mesmer can be fine in pvp ( like virtuoso ) while still need helping in pvp ( like chrono )

Did you forget each class now has THREE vastly different elite specs to them? Do you think every elite spec gets represented equally in pvp?? Are they all doing fine or is every class doing horrible? What is this logic? lmfao Where did I even say the words you're trying to put in my mouth?

You want my own words? Read the first pages.

There is a solid group, both in this thread, and in the mesmer forums, that have no connection to reality in regards to mesmer pvp. They have been salted or jaded or whatever. But they are disgruntled, and overly negative to not only the Mesmer class, but anyone even saying/doing anything remotely positive as a Mesmer. They are not realistic in their perception, nor honest with their words or intentions.

This thread is a perfect example of what I am speaking about above, and someone earlier said it best. I got trashed for simply saying Mirage is B tier. Imagine that lmfao. Saying Power Mirage is B tier is considered some sin here. Hilarious.

 

Did you even read anything at all in this thread?

 

Just more personal attacks, though these ones at least are passive aggressive instead of just outright trolling. I love that now I am apparently a skilled player who's humblebragging though. I thought I was a silver tier skillclicker who had no clue how to Mesmer??

 

Can you guys make up your minds at least and stick to one narrative please? It's getting a bit tiring  jumping around all these plot holes now.

 

 

 

 

First off, I don't really appreciate how you approach my comment as coming from "the group" who has a different opinion than yours. My comments are mine alone, and am not on any narrative.

 

A class that sacrifices a lot to do well in a niche role does need buffs. Yes, it is that black and white. Guess you just cant comprehend that. I never insulted your skill btw because that doesn't matter to me at all. My point of contention is that you do not want to buff your main class because you have achieved good (but lukewarm) results, but I assure you if you tried maining other meta classes, you will find better results.

And it's that simple. Other classes are better right now, so yes, buff mesmer. Black and white. 

I suggest omitting things  like "player attitude" or "doing your best" in this discussion because all those don't matter when it comes to balancing things.  So again, you're having fun and are having success while being kitten, congratulations. Now, buff mesmers now please!

Edited June 20, 2022 by HowlKamui.5120

[Senqu.8054]

On 6/19/2022 at 8:49 AM, Waffles.5632 said:

Here let me use your own logic and words against you.

It doesn't matter what you think or say. What you say is just false.

 

 

But more seriously...

That you have to explain to someone that players have literally beaten dark souls 3 with a banana. It does not matter in any way shape or form HOW you play, only that you are giving your best effort, having fun, and being a team player.

GW2 PvE can be done in only green EQ or even naked. Don’t pull a comparison with a PvE game when we talk about PvP. And yes it does matter how you play. That you deny it underlines perfectly why you are just wrong. But why even defending it when you said here that it was „a trap you did“:

On 5/26/2022 at 12:03 PM, Waffles.5632 said:

I literally did the meme skillclicking of all my F abilities in that video and they still couldn't see it as the blatant trap that it was. Just goes to show how Mesmer CC is so potent it works IRL too.

 

On 6/19/2022 at 8:49 AM, Waffles.5632 said:

I would take a skillclicker over an afker or a pvper with a bad attitude any day of the week for pvp. Always.

I mean, you all play pvp w/o mouse clicking skills I assume, so again, this just using your own logic here...

strawman lol no one ever said anything remotely in this regards. Slowly I begin to believe that you are just driving a movie here „I am vs all others“

 

On 6/19/2022 at 8:49 AM, Waffles.5632 said:

If I am playing pvp on the worst spec of the worst class, one dodge 15k hp, no condi cleanse, no sustain, AND I click skills, and I'm still getting plat 1? Which is top 250 and has been for awhile now.

 

I must be a pvp god wow. Talk about challenge mode. I am prolly playing pvp on the hardest difficulty here out of anyone, and still have a 56% win rate!

Apparently you are the only one here that is proud of a match rate of 1 match / day while you lose every second match PLUS all tiers below gold3 are full of bots. How are your stats supposed to be meaningful in any way. But you provided us with your understanding of Win rates:

On 5/26/2022 at 12:50 PM, Waffles.5632 said:

As for Troll? Google highest shot accuracy for NBA players. Google highest batting average for MLB players.

Edit : I did it for you, Stephen Curry, the most accurate 3 point shooter, has a 42.8% success rate.

Do you know how stats work? Like, do you even realize how hard it would be to get above 60% or even 70% win rate? It would involve an S tier spec, non stop duo queue, and some wintrading, that much I am certain.

And by your logic it’s pure luck to win tournaments lol. Btw. FCB has a winrate of 70%. Draw of 14% and lose 14% if you really want to start compare to real sports.

But okey, maybe you are just a good player, is this what you want to hear? Then take this advice> skill clicking is not efficient. Learn to use keyboard or extra keys on your mouse. Maybe you can reach something then. For someone who already played rupter ranger and mesmer in gw1 I am shocked.

 

On 6/19/2022 at 8:49 AM, Waffles.5632 said:

Yeah, hopefully some of you realize how silly you sound now when you say skillclicker, as if that makes any difference what so ever about anything. You are only making me look better so keep doing it I suppose lol.

There will be the day you look to this moment back and think: “What have I talked for a kitten here”

 

On 6/19/2022 at 8:49 AM, Waffles.5632 said:

And in case I need to be clear, because by now it's proven some people just aren't reading. I do not think I am a pvp god, or anything like that. I am just having fun on Power Mirage and I do think it is a sleeper spec that has crazy pvp potential. This is my personal opinion.

 

No one thinks that that you are pro, don’t worry. Anyways, you are fully right, you deserve to have fun. It’s all yours. But saying Mirage has crazy PvP potential to people who lost already like 5 or more builds (only on mirage) is like listening to a new intern, seriously.
 

We are already behind the point where it was effective in PvP. We are at the 3. or 4. year of nerfs. You are right now the one pressuring a community to like something which is clearly just the light version of the light version of this spec. It’s like we drove a Ferrari and are now provided with a Trabi. Of cause people who have never seen a car will think a Trabi is perfectly fine since it can drive on roads but this is not the expection of the community. 

 

And don’t start again with this kitten Mirage is B to A tier. To come once back to a comment of yours:

On 5/26/2022 at 2:15 PM, Waffles.5632 said:

Power Mirage - B ( part of me wants to say B+, other part wants to say B-, so B is the compromise I can give now)

Core - A

Chrono - B, or B- ( I find myself wanting to even go as far as C or D though so you are right on this one. Fair point. )

Condi Mirage - A

Condi Virtu - A+ (I think it will get nerfed soon though)

Power Virtu - ??? (Idk enough about this spec to rate it fairly)

You say Core is A tier and Condi Virt is A+ tier. I am seriously questioning your credibility here with this comment. As if just buffing some numbers would help with this mess to lift them to S tier. 

What mesmer needs is it’s key-effects back to provide healthy not half kittened skills and traits. If you don’t get it because you haven’t experienced the old versions I think an perfect example here is Portal:

1. Portal was a mesmer only skill with 60s duration, background recharge and 72s cooldown.

2. Now you always thought hm it’s a little bit odd that only mesmer has Portal BUT only Portal made mesmer to a considerable alternative vs thief. (And personally i think such differences in classes that should fullfill a similar role to balance them out is the highest form a balance. This is how balance should be in reality. Creative, complex, it offers variety and creates a dynamic environment)

3. Then ANet came to the conclusion thief also needs a portal.

4. So they nerfed the duration of Mesmer portal to 30s and deleted background recharge.

5. Now they added portal to thief. Gave it background recharge and a 60s duration and 60s cooldown.

6. Now thief portal is by far better then mesmer portal and since the change you have like never used mesmer portal again.

And if you do, like this is only one specific skill. No, similar things happened to 60 skills, traits and mechanics. Buffing some damage numbers is not helping here at all. The class itself is non existing anymore.

Or look at Aegis on Shatter for Virt. We had blind on shatters for core which got deleted and made core slowly unbearable. Now they added a similar but downgraded effect 4 years later and the new players are like „wow such balance, much wow“ while CORE is missing this crucial defense entirely. It changed a active fighting style into a passive fighting style. And this is only one example. There are tenth of examples for this. Jazz has written whole pages regards this occurring issue. And it is at a point not remotely acceptable anymore. You can change numbers as much as you want, heck give me an auto attack that crits for 20k this is not considered the kind of thing which is the key problem here.

On 6/19/2022 at 8:49 AM, Waffles.5632 said:

But I mean, come on these comments have been top tier, we are on page 5 and the best you guys can still say is skillclicker. lmfao. It's like you have no other argument.

No arguments? I am not the first here to tell you we are far past the argumentation stage. AND tbh this is an pure insult of a newcomer. 
This community has written more then 1000 pages in this forum and discussed hundred of different ideas and outcomes. Jazz, one of the most experienced mesmer players out there atm, contacted CMC directly and has TALKED with him personally for hours. CMC even wanted a manifest of what the community thinks has to be changed. We have argumented an uncountable amount of pages what should be in this letter. We have a idk how many pages long letter which WE have together set up, and jazz has written it and send it to ANet directly. We have discussed Virt in all its forms for pages. And nothing has happened. And with WE I mean NOT YOU. Tell me please where have you been when we did that?

And now AGAIN someone comes here and says, there are no arguments? 

It’s very exhausting to explain something to people who have not experienced the days before the „big hunt“ but I gave you an example with portal. If you really need more I will write you an detailed wall of text of everything we have lost over the past years and why it makes mesmer to this nonsense it is right now.

After 10 years of downgrades I came to the conclusion that people like you are the root cause of the problem. ANet listened to often to people who came to this game and thought they know it better. We recently lost AGAIN a crucial skill for chrono support (and it was added to another class). It’s ridiculous that we lose every single patch crucial skills traits and mechanics and people still come up with mesmer is fine. I mean what is going on here? By this logic we should already switch the skill set to the one we have in super adventure box. On the high times of this mess I had to rebuild every patch 2-4 armor Sets because the ones I used have been obsolete by the time the patch dropped. And I’m done because i can’t play my builds anymore. Not only because they are not viable anymore. Because they are deleted or smiterbooned. I CANT PLAY MY KITTEN ANYMORE GET IT IN YOUR HEAD

 

 

Edited June 20, 2022 by Senqu.8054

[Waffles.5632]

8 hours ago, HowlKamui.5120 said:

 

First off, I don't really appreciate how you approach my comment as coming from "the group" who has a different opinion than yours. My comments are mine alone, and am not on any narrative.

 

A class that sacrifices a lot to do well in a niche role does need buffs. Yes, it is that black and white. Guess you just cant comprehend that. I never insulted your skill btw because that doesn't matter to me at all. My point of contention is that you do not want to buff your main class because you have achieved good (but lukewarm) results, but I assure you if you tried maining other meta classes, you will find better results.

And it's that simple. Other classes are better right now, so yes, buff mesmer. Black and white. 

I suggest omitting things  like "player attitude" or "doing your best" in this discussion because all those don't matter when it comes to balancing things.  So again, you're having fun and are having success while being kitten, congratulations. Now, buff mesmers now please!

This again makes no sense as, for the last time, I have NEVER claimed Mesmer does NOT need buffs. You are definitely in the same group that does not read more than the first two sentences it seems. How is claiming something is B tier, also claiming that it does not need buffs? For real this is just sad now.  It's B tier, of course it needs buffs. I posted my ideas in this very thread. Again. READ.

 

If you say buff Mesmer because mesmer is F tier, unplayabale, class is kitten (<--- last one is your actual wording) or ANY version of what's called an exaggerated opinion, you are wrong sorry. It offers no actual feedback. It's just a feeling.

 

Read that again, it is just a feeling. ^^^

 

What is not a feeling however, is the fact that yes, I have a solid win rate and have done pretty well with Power Mirage over the past 2-3 years. Consistently managing to stay within the the same ranking, despite all the changes to both the other classes, and the pvp game mode in general.

I've seen the rev rune of speed build come and go, I've seen shortbow rene shiro/jallis pvp build come and go, I have seen burn guards come and go. These are just a few examples, but so many builds have become "top" or "meta" for a period of time, and then they drop off FAST because I never see rune of speed rev anymore at all anymore, or burn guard. ( tho I'm sure there is prolly a burn WB spec floating around, but idc not the point)

 

Anyways, same build, same success, through years of seasons of pvp.  If I weren't talking about Mesmer you would assume this sentence was about  a guard or necro. Let that sink in. That consistency has to be factored in. Consistency is always a form and factor of strength. The strongest builds consistently perform within the same parameters. Facts.

 

That is why I lumped you in, because for a second it felt like the same poster. You all feel the same to reply to tbh. So here are my responses to the next four of ya.

"I never said that"

"I never said that"

"....I never said that"

 

 

 

 

"............I never said that...."

 

Anything positive about Mesmer that gets mentioned around here just gets shut down so hard, it's jarring and not indicative of where Mesmer actually is. I can't even say Power Mirage is B tier without a 5 page thread explosion, is that really such a hot take opinion? LOL.

You guys have conflated your relationship with the devs and Mesmer Balance. Your relationship with devs is F tier. That is definitely for sure. And by just the responses alone in this thread, I understand exactly why.

 

My advice is next time an enthusiastic "newcomer" (your words again, lmfao such gate keeping btw) comes in, instead of throwing tamper tantrums because they have a different opinion than you, you exercise a few simple rules and tricks :

1. Don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all.

2. Provide receipts for what you're talking about. Saying "oh 1000 memsers offered 1000 essays and anet didn't listen" is just gibberish. Especially when you can look to this thread and single-handedly see very few ideas even being talked about, and the actual problem being clear as day.

3. Patience.

 

 

 

Edited June 20, 2022 by Waffles.5632

[Waffles.5632]

Since Jazz X Man was mentioned :

Go to that video and check the comments for Wild Kusanagi.

 

hahahahahahahahah

 

 

my own pvp video on power mirage, now check the comments for Jazz X man.

 

hahahahahahahahahhahhahahahaha

 

Sorry, but yeah. Now, I will NOT speak for Jazz X man. I respect them greatly, so I want to be clear that I am just pointing out we have already interacted with each other so here is their own words on the actual matter.

Which btw I will spoil it for you, Jazz thinks power mirage is one of the highest skill cap classes in the entire game. If My memory serves me correctly from that first video.

 

Jazz was one of the ONLY Mesmers that actually had any info on the class btw. I searched for MONTHS and, initially when I started, I looked on the official forums, and all I read was "Mesmer sucks. Chrono got gutted. Kitten Class. Doesn't work. Unplayable."  etc

I really couldn't make any sense of it, I just wanted to know how my clones and phantasms worked. Then I tried youtube, snocrows, reddit, and metabattle, just looking around. Don't you get it? Everything I learned about Mesmer has been from outside the official forums.

What a sad reality for gw2.

Edit : I am gonna love the responses to this though!

Also the only real difference between back then and now is back then I, like Jazz, thought Mirage needed two dodges, but I never once considered how infuriating 2 mirage dodges would be for everyone else when a downed player is introduced into the mix. To me that is simply a big no from a balance perspective, and so once I factored that scenario in, I accepted Mirage can only ever have one dodge. So, our traits need slight buffs to factor in one dodge, much like vindicator. They could even change our endurance number, much like vindi traits do. I think a lot of people wouldn't mind that. I hope I am not wrong.

Edited June 20, 2022 by Waffles.5632

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

10 minutes ago, Waffles.5632 said:

Since Jazz X Man was mentioned :

Go to that video and check the comments for Wild Kusanagi.

 

hahahahahahahahah

 

 

my own pvp video on power mirage, now check the comments for Jazz X man.

 

hahahahahahahahahhahhahahahaha

 

Sorry, but yeah. Now, I will NOT speak for Jazz X man. I respect them greatly, so I want to be clear that I am just pointing out we have already interacted with each other so here is their own words on the actual matter.

Which btw I will spoil it for you, Jazz thinks power mirage is one of the highest skill cap classes in the entire game. If My memory serves me correctly from that first video.

 

Jazz was one of the ONLY Mesmers that actually had any info on the class btw. I searched for MONTHS and, initially when I started, I looked on the official forums, and all I read was "Mesmer sucks. Chrono got gutted. Kitten Class. Doesn't work. Unplayable."  etc

I really couldn't make any sense of it, I just wanted to know how my clones and phantasms worked. Then I tried youtube, snocrows, reddit, and metabattle, just looking around. Don't you get it? Everything I learned about Mesmer has been from outside the official forums.

What a sad reality for gw2.

Edit : I am gonna love the responses to this though!

Jazz was the one that got banned from discord, me and apharma referred to. 

[Waffles.5632]

7 minutes ago, Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

Jazz was the one that got banned from discord, me and apharma referred to. 

If it that is true, then I completely understand why, and I also now get why these Mesmers are so negative.

I get that, because ele's are going through the Mesmer treatment now it seems, and DH guard got nuked out of nowhere in pvp with rune of trapper nerf.

 

However I still hold my stance that dismissing new players and being super negative about it, will not only not make it better, but will just make it worse. I really think Power Mirage is a slept on class in pvp, and if enough people start playing it, the game will change. That is my personal opinion.

And Anet has made good changes, and what I see as a good turn around, we went from legit having no xpac, to having an xpac announced with 9 new specs. That is crazy for a 10 yr old MMO imo.

I kinda see the game changing already with Virtuoso's. There has been almost a virt now in every match I've been doing recently. That is refreshing at least in the short term, but long term still is who knows because of the june 28th patch.

Edited June 20, 2022 by Waffles.5632

[viquing.8254]

Hmm don't take it bad but even if I agree that Jazz is a good player.

I disagree when she talk about skill versus what I call effectivnesss and as long as I didn't see a mesmer wining mAt or playing at the highest level, I will maintain that skill is relative while effectivness isn't...

 

 

Now talking about dev, considering what mesmer was at launch, what it is today.

And what other classes were and what they are today, yeas, dev are F tiers.

The best example is that old teamfight classes become god in duelling/small fight while old duelling classes like mesmer not only were nerfing on duelling but also got nothing to teamfight.

I'm the kind of guy who don't think it's normal that a NECRO OUTRUN a mesmer. As long as necro has insane AOE and group utilities.

Edited June 20, 2022 by viquing.8254

[apharma.3741]

Jazz and a few other mesmer players understand this class on a level some of you can't even imagine while having played so much that they are very skilled across the range. That doesn't mean I agree with them on all things nor does it mean I don't think they have sometimes been their worst at the wrong time but I do respect that dedication, skill and depth of knowledge.

That's the level of respect very few in this forum will ever earn.

As Viquing says, we've seen people drop mesmer entirely from PvP and these are people who played it when it was hard countered in the meta by thief because it still had a few portal and moa tricks. We have also seen other classes grow in roles and cover historic weaknesses while mesmer gets....shafted?

Anyway I think that's as much idiocy of this forum I can stand for a while, nice to see some of you guys again.

Edited June 20, 2022 by apharma.3741

[HowlKamui.5120]

16 hours ago, Waffles.5632 said:

This again makes no sense as, for the last time, I have NEVER claimed Mesmer does NOT need buffs. You are definitely in the same group that does not read more than the first two sentences it seems. How is claiming something is B tier, also claiming that it does not need buffs? For real this is just sad now.  It's B tier, of course it needs buffs. I posted my ideas in this very thread. Again. READ.

 

If you say buff Mesmer because mesmer is F tier, unplayabale, class is kitten (<--- last one is your actual wording) or ANY version of what's called an exaggerated opinion, you are wrong sorry. It offers no actual feedback. It's just a feeling.

 

Read that again, it is just a feeling. ^^^

 

What is not a feeling however, is the fact that yes, I have a solid win rate and have done pretty well with Power Mirage over the past 2-3 years. Consistently managing to stay within the the same ranking, despite all the changes to both the other classes, and the pvp game mode in general.

I've seen the rev rune of speed build come and go, I've seen shortbow rene shiro/jallis pvp build come and go, I have seen burn guards come and go. These are just a few examples, but so many builds have become "top" or "meta" for a period of time, and then they drop off FAST because I never see rune of speed rev anymore at all anymore, or burn guard. ( tho I'm sure there is prolly a burn WB spec floating around, but idc not the point)

 

Anyways, same build, same success, through years of seasons of pvp.  If I weren't talking about Mesmer you would assume this sentence was about  a guard or necro. Let that sink in. That consistency has to be factored in. Consistency is always a form and factor of strength. The strongest builds consistently perform within the same parameters. Facts.

 

That is why I lumped you in, because for a second it felt like the same poster. You all feel the same to reply to tbh. So here are my responses to the next four of ya.

"I never said that"

"I never said that"

"....I never said that"

 

 

 

 

"............I never said that...."

 

Anything positive about Mesmer that gets mentioned around here just gets shut down so hard, it's jarring and not indicative of where Mesmer actually is. I can't even say Power Mirage is B tier without a 5 page thread explosion, is that really such a hot take opinion? LOL.

You guys have conflated your relationship with the devs and Mesmer Balance. Your relationship with devs is F tier. That is definitely for sure. And by just the responses alone in this thread, I understand exactly why.

 

My advice is next time an enthusiastic "newcomer" (your words again, lmfao such gate keeping btw) comes in, instead of throwing tamper tantrums because they have a different opinion than you, you exercise a few simple rules and tricks :

1. Don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all.

2. Provide receipts for what you're talking about. Saying "oh 1000 memsers offered 1000 essays and anet didn't listen" is just gibberish. Especially when you can look to this thread and single-handedly see very few ideas even being talked about, and the actual problem being clear as day.

3. Patience.

 

 

 

Buddy, I never said Mesmer was F tier. You are definitely confusing me for someone else when you say that those are my actual words. I never exagerrate as I am not really an emotional person. 

All I said initially was that your small sample was not reliable evidence of class power level/balance because it came from one source (you.) 

I then pointed out that you were also wrong to say that your sample can be considered a control group, because…. Lol.

 

I then mentioned that even if you have success with the class, doesn’t mean the class is fine. 
 

I never insulted your skill, and even you clicking your buttons. In fact, I was even implying that you were good with mesmers because you were making it work even though it needs buffs. 

You are clearly very emotionally invested in this, and are not in a logical state, that you are confusing me with other people.  In fact you’ve even began assumptions of what I would reply to what you have just posted, and replied to that assumption in the same post. Basically you are starting to talk to yourself.

I will bow out of this one as I no longer see any point in talking with you, and I wish you well. I suggest taking some time off of this thread, for your own sake.

I really wish you well bro. 

[Waffles.5632]

6 hours ago, HowlKamui.5120 said:

Buddy, I never said Mesmer was F tier. You are definitely confusing me for someone else when you say that those are my actual words. I never exagerrate as I am not really an emotional person. 

All I said initially was that your small sample was not reliable evidence of class power level/balance because it came from one source (you.) 

I then pointed out that you were also wrong to say that your sample can be considered a control group, because…. Lol.

 

I then mentioned that even if you have success with the class, doesn’t mean the class is fine. 
 

I never insulted your skill, and even you clicking your buttons. In fact, I was even implying that you were good with mesmers because you were making it work even though it needs buffs. 

You are clearly very emotionally invested in this, and are not in a logical state, that you are confusing me with other people.  In fact you’ve even began assumptions of what I would reply to what you have just posted, and replied to that assumption in the same post. Basically you are starting to talk to yourself.

I will bow out of this one as I no longer see any point in talking with you, and I wish you well. I suggest taking some time off of this thread, for your own sake.

I really wish you well bro. 

You are projecting and backpedaling extremely hard with this, but the posts are up above. You brought up Jazz, and this was exactly the response I expected. Another attempt to distract by trying to create something personal against me.

Let's see the order of personal attacks of this thread :

I have been called a Skillclicker, silver tier, hardstuck, troll, inexperienced, and now I am emotional and confused.

 

You are wrong. You tried to bring up Jazz as an argument to authority, and it only bolstered my position because you spoke from complete ignorance, as you are doing now again.

This thread was made out of emotion btw. You cannot tell me that title is fair and reasonable. It's clickbait. You want to talk to me about emotion and yet the landslide majority of personal attacks in this thread alone have all come from the other side... hmmmm....

In fact I got banned for 3 days for "Abusive language" from a response I made earlier in this thread, and yet I have came back and managed to somehow not get banned again over the last week. I was not even told which part of my post was abusive, so that means I am keeping all my emotions in check with every post, but I do make mistakes, so ty for your concern. I appreciate it.

 

Mirage is B tier btw, my skill has nothing to do with that but ty. If I was better or took pvp more seriously then I would say I might be able to take it to plat 2 or even plat 3 but the reality is, I can't really focus the way I need to for ~10mins or however long matches usually last now. I am aware of my surroundings and teammates, but like on a 7/10 scale. I miss stuff from time to time, same with my dodges. I panic and spam my skills too lol. Even recently I have found I have a notoriously bad weakness to getting moa'd lmfao, which I am just chalking up to I haven't seen this many mesmers in pvp in a long time. I swear there is one almost every match now. Around 7/10 are Virtu's. That is reality atm. Not w/e is on this thread.

With that being said, before you go out at least we can agree that Mesmer's are not F tier, and that they need buffs. Ty.

 

Edit : I did make a mistake because of the Avatar. You are correct. My b. This thread has been wild. I never thought Mirage B tier was such a hot take, leaving this post as is though because even tho it is directed at wrong person, the point comes across all the same.

 

 

 

Edited June 21, 2022 by Waffles.5632

[Waffles.5632]

21 hours ago, viquing.8254 said:

Hmm don't take it bad but even if I agree that Jazz is a good player.

I disagree when she talk about skill versus what I call effectivnesss and as long as I didn't see a mesmer wining mAt or playing at the highest level, I will maintain that skill is relative while effectivness isn't...

 

 

Now talking about dev, considering what mesmer was at launch, what it is today.

And what other classes were and what they are today, yeas, dev are F tiers.

The best example is that old teamfight classes become god in duelling/small fight while old duelling classes like mesmer not only were nerfing on duelling but also got nothing to teamfight.

I'm the kind of guy who don't think it's normal that a NECRO OUTRUN a mesmer. As long as necro has insane AOE and group utilities.

It is okay to disagree, but I would have to watch that video again to see more of what you are talking about in regards to that difference.

I cannot speak for other specs, but for Mirage, the fact that it is not A tier or above is because it had traits designed for two dodges, then got one dodge removed, and the traits never got compensated to work with one dodge. So effectively, the class did get cut in half on a mechanical level. So numbers wise it can never compete with the top specs on a fair level. However, I cannot stress this enough, Mirage cannot be allowed to have two dodges lol. That would be too much.

So for me, I'd much rather see Mirage get vindi make over. Re-adjust traits and endurance to fit within one dodge. That seems fair to everyone, power and condi but let's be honest, we should try to discourage condi in pvp as power meta's are more fun imo but i am biased lol.

And as for Harb, I agree but I do not think the issue is their mobility exactly, nor am I seeing where this "mobility" is? AFAIK it only on their shroud 3 and 4, which 4 is an evade. I have more of a problem with their shroud 5 because that is a pulsing lingering AOE float on a 25 sec CD which is just insane to me. A bigger insult to Mesmer's if we going this route is Chrono used to be the king of floats, and now necro get's a spammable better float LOL. But, hey that's a joke honest not meant to incite anyone, just gotta laugh, especially because right now makes no sense to have any snap judgments, the june 28th patch is almost here so imo best to wait to see how that shakes things up, because Anet might hit all those areas on Harb, as mostly everyone agrees all the EoD specs are still a bit overtuned for pvp, mostly WB and Harb. Just my 2c.

[Ombras.2853]

Harbi mobility comes from Spectral Walk and Wurm swap as well.

[Waffles.5632]

4 hours ago, Ombras.2853 said:

Harbi mobility comes from Spectral Walk and Wurm swap as well.

That's fair, but that is also available to all necro specs so I wouldn't exactly call it harb mobility.

However Longer CD's on all of their shroud skills would be good start imo. For Harb specifically.

Edited June 21, 2022 by Waffles.5632

[myun.6395]

Yeah, but in mmos it all about meta rotations, maybe people forgot the times of chronobunker or condi mirage when still had 2 dodges, they were completely broken ape tier builds that were able to carry a mediocre silver gold player to high ranks.

I bet mesmer mains back then were saying how skill it needed to be played right? So much bias from mains in this game.

 

It is also true that guard necro combo and right now guard has even 2 meta specs it's something that got out of hand in terms of profession privileges over other ones and also of boredom. 

 

I would be okay if necro and guard require any skill to be played, but not only they are utterly broken every meta, they are also made for no-hands players to sell new expansions and the game and to make little noob kids happy.

 

But whatever, this is the mmo life and gw2 life, they don't care of pvp balance and never will.

 

Next patch maybe they will buff some kitten thing on another spec which will be meta and the circle continue.

[Duglaive.5236]

25 minutes ago, myun.6395 said:

 

But whatever, this is the mmo life and gw2 life, they don't care of pvp balance and never will.

 

This really sums it up. PvP balance in any mmo I've played is where the real fantasy lies. Even the mmo with the best PvP ever, DAoC (imo of course), went through periods of utterly toxic garbage balance.

For many reasons, balance in competitive modes is out of reach. And beyond lip service, they really don't care that much.

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

32 minutes ago, myun.6395 said:

Yeah, but in mmos it all about meta rotations, maybe people forgot the times of chronobunker or condi mirage when still had 2 dodges, they were completely broken ape tier builds that were able to carry a mediocre silver gold player to high ranks.

I bet mesmer mains back then were saying how skill it needed to be played right? So much bias from mains in this game.

 

It is also true that guard necro combo and right now guard has even 2 meta specs it's something that got out of hand in terms of profession privileges over other ones and also of boredom. 

 

I would be okay if necro and guard require any skill to be played, but not only they are utterly broken every meta, they are also made for no-hands players to sell new expansions and the game and to make little noob kids happy.

 

But whatever, this is the mmo life and gw2 life, they don't care of pvp balance and never will.

 

Next patch maybe they will buff some kitten thing on another spec which will be meta and the circle continue.

Yet it was nothing related to the number of dodges nor vigor amount. 

[viquing.8254]

1 hour ago, myun.6395 said:

Yeah, but in mmos it all about meta rotations, maybe people forgot the times of chronobunker or condi mirage when still had 2 dodges, they were completely broken ape tier builds that were able to carry a mediocre silver gold player to high ranks.

The only build needed to be fixed were chronobunker v1 and v2.

Condi mirage wasn't a problem because back in times, other classes were also powercreeped.

Now it's been more than 2 years that mesmer is out of meta while we see average 4 same classes in every game. (necro before PoF, gard now. Such balance rotation.).

When I look at how many time chronobunker exist it seems very very short in comparison.

Two more notes :

- Why the said "rotation" take 2 month or 2 years depending of the class.

- I left other MMO because they overdoes this kind of balance.

Edited June 21, 2022 by viquing.8254

[Salt Mode.3780]

Actually harbinger mobility is not just on wurm or spectral walk, their shroud form has a leap as well as a dash. As I've said it any mobility skill that is not on utility is more valuable then mobility on utility is due to the low CD.

[Ombras.2853]

52 minutes ago, Salt Mode.3780 said:

Actually harbinger mobility is not just on wurm or spectral walk, their shroud form has a leap as well as a dash. As I've said it any mobility skill that is not on utility is more valuable then mobility on utility is due to the low CD.

He already mentioned that, I was adding that shroud isn’t the only way to pump mobility out of Harbi.

[Senqu.8054]

Product gets deleted. Company actively denies the community. You get told to not be so negative in the forums. What a world.

[FarmBotXD.1430]

I saw more necromancers in 1 day, then I saw chronomancers in 3 years of playing gw2 pvp.
When you get to higher rankings its legit 0 mesmers, and those you see are they guys that you remember by name, why? because those are the only guys left playing this garbage class.
I said it before and I will say t again, after playing over 2k games on mesmer in pvp, I performed BETTER on ranger that I have NEVER EVEN PLAYED IN PVE while ranger isnt even a meta class, thats how dog kitten the class is.

@Waffles.5632
The reason why you dont find info on how mesmer works is because all mesmer players been kitten on for so long that even the most die hard ones have quit the class or the game.
Every person saying mesmer is fine doesnt play the class, all high ranking players saying mesmer is fine WILL NOT PLAY IT and they WILL NOT accept mesmer in their team.
Its that simple. Class is dog.
If you wanna play mesmer go virtuoso and enjoy overbuffed to kitten bleed in pve because thats all this class is good for.

[mortrialus.3062]

On 6/1/2022 at 5:38 AM, Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

Indeed you lose a ton of damage by taking it, on power builds, but you gain sustain. I don't like it nor inspi, they're skilless kitten. 

Dom and duel on the other hand have only a couple of good traits, to spec for a major grandmaster you have to trait  bunch of useless stuff. 

 

Every class has multiple defensive traitlines that are "bad player carries."  There's nothing uniquely overpowered or even really great about Chaos compared to Death and Blood Magic, or Tactics, or Shadow Arts, or Wilderness Survival, or Alchemy, or Inventions. 

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

1 minute ago, mortrialus.3062 said:

Every class has multiple defensive traitlines that are "bad player carries."  There's nothing uniquely overpowered or even really great about Chaos compared to Death and Blood Magic, or Tactics, or Shadow Arts, or Wilderness Survival, or Alchemy, or Inventions. 

Most of times a build performs over the top is due to those lines. They should just smitherboon them all. (instead it seems SA is getting buffed lul). 

[mortrialus.3062]

2 minutes ago, Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

Most of times a build performs over the top is due to those lines. They should just smitherboon them all. (instead it seems SA is getting buffed lul). 

The game has had enough nerfing.  It's never remotely recovered from the February 2020 patch and has been a hideous mess ever since then.