World Linking 5/27/2022

[subversiontwo.7501]

So, who's going to invite me to Gandara's 1-year straight of being full and 80% unlinked celebration party? 😇

[Grand Marshal.4098]

So far I have enjoyed GH FSP combo, now tomorrow waking up will be the real test of how good and strong this link is. 

[Dawdler.8521]

4 hours ago, Grand Marshal.4098 said:

So far I have enjoyed GH FSP combo, now tomorrow waking up will be the real test of how good and strong this link is. 

Riverside has won 5 out 6 skirmishes.

[elo.9860]

9 hours ago, Turgon.2091 said:

RIP WsR no q all map outnumbered. No one wants to play with vizunah(dead serv). Massive transfer in progress. 🐒

 

That's how long the WSR bandwagon lasted? Carried by Vabbi and now dead kekw

[Zizou.2358]

Poor Kodash fellows, linked with those SM hugging nolife kids

[Karagee.6830]

Any strong evening/night capping server + German server link should be outlawed in principle as they would have pretty much 24h coverage

[Karagee.6830]

16 hours ago, Cal Cohen.2358 said:

Here are the worlds for EU:

• Augury Rock (FR), Jade Sea (FR)
• Aurora Glade (EN), Dzagonur (DE)
• Baruch Bay (SP)
• Blacktide (EN), Miller's Sound (DE)
• Desolation (EN), Ring of Fire (EN)
• Drakkar Lake (DE), Arborstone (FR)
• Elona Reach (DE)
• Far Shiverpeaks (EN), Gunnar's Hold (EN)
• Fissure of Woe (EN), Kodash (DE)
• Gandara (EN)
• Piken Square (EN), Ruins of Surmia (EN)
• Riverside (DE), Abaddon's Mouth (DE)
• Seafarer's Rest (EN), Underworld (EN)
• Vabbi (EN), Fort Ranik (FR)
• Whiteside Ridge (EN), Vizunah Square (FR)

 

Here are the worlds for NA:

• Blackgate, Anvil Rock
• Crystal Desert, Yak's Bend
• Darkhaven, Gate of Madness
• Dragonbrand, Borlis Pass
• Ehmry Bay, Ferguson's Crossing
• Fort Aspenwood, Sorrow's Furnace
• Jade Quarry, Eredon Terrace
• Maguuma, Isle of Janthir
• Sanctum of Rall, Northern Shiverpeaks
• Sea of Sorrows, Devona's Rest
• Stormbluff Isle, Henge of Denravi
• Tarnished Coast, Kaineng

 

When can we expect to see the numbers these pairings are based on? We don't need to see the name of the servers just understand if there is any sort of logic to this or you pull things out of you backside. Why don't you do it for NA since it would be harder to identify the specific servers and there are fewer variables (language, BB etc)?

[Grand Marshal.4098]

5 hours ago, Dawdler.8521 said:

Riverside has won 5 out 6 skirmishes.

Eh night ppt classsic. 

Doubt Gunna'rs got some big night crew anyway. We barely had that with Blacktide last link. 

[Mabi black.1824]

you always have to wait for the day of the links to finally read on the forum what are the important fixes for this mode.

1- we need teams, players want their own team. you can clearly understand it from what you read here, even if you keep a team outnumbered for 6 months, the players (competitive, here I'm not talking about cowards) will continue to do everything for their team.

2 - we need numerically equal teams or as much as possible, change the logic of the algorithm please. at the time I also suggested an icon that I can press and see the potential of the 3 teams (since we can not know the numbers) to understand when the numbers of the teams approach and organize accordingly a game strategy for that week.

3 - we need a correction to the logic of transfers, allowed to all for a fee but by reservation. you only jump if another player takes your place that you leave.

4 - you need a constant count of online players, consequently a comparison between the players you have counted against their enemies. you apply this coefficient to the war points generated by the respective teams. the only unquestionable way because mathematics is not an opinion, which solves the concept of 24/7

 

but no, I will continue to see small confused faces that respond to concrete proposals (certainly improvable and not perfect) are so tender.

or a lot of blah blah blah, broken thief, broken engineer, too much superspeed, alliances when etc etc. all legitimate things , but definitely less importance.

Edited May 28, 2022 by Mabi black.1824

[nthmetal.9652]

Yeah thanks, Anet. Gandara was perma-stuck in T5 the last matchup due to constantly being outnumbered, except for a quick stint into T4. And now it looks like we're still permastuck down there.

You know, I said we'll deal with it, like we've always done, this isn't madness, this is Gandara, after all.  But this is far from ideal. If players get frustrated by that, it would not surprise me.

[Strider Pj.2193]

5 hours ago, Karagee.6830 said:

 

When can we expect to see the numbers these pairings are based on? We don't need to see the name of the servers just understand if there is any sort of logic to this or you pull things out of you backside. Why don't you do it for NA since it would be harder to identify the specific servers and there are fewer variables (language, BB etc)?

That would be a never.  The closest they ever got was a bar graph showing non labeled worlds without actual numbers that we were told the largest activity world was BG.

 

🤷

[Valdel.7325]

3 hours ago, nthmetal.9652 said:

Yeah thanks, Anet. Gandara was perma-stuck in T5 the last matchup due to constantly being outnumbered, except for a quick stint into T4. And now it looks like we're still permastuck down there.

You know, I said we'll deal with it, like we've always done, this isn't madness, this is Gandara, after all.  But this is far from ideal. If players get frustrated by that, it would not surprise me.

I'm so angry and tired, I feel like taking a ban, just to let them know the frustration of trying to play continuously outnumbered. Watching what you've fought for, wiped away easily by linked servers is depressing. I've probably through mine and my son's account spent a thousand pounds a year on cosmetics, stories, expansions and utilities. I'm not wealthy, it's just my hobby. I don't expect a gold card, but when you know you've paid into Anet and are getting kitten for it, it hurts even more. Not because I'm entitled to an easier ride, but that like all of us we should have a fair ride and it's just not happening. 

[SFShinigami.1572]

The one time Gandara went up to T4 was basically because Deso night focused the other team.

 

There is no good matchup for unlinked servers. Eliminate 5 tiers.

[Sin.4130]

They removed t5 in US, but they keep bashing Gandara for f*** years, they will not recive a single EUR from me for that treatment

Edited May 28, 2022 by Sin.4130

[Karagee.6830]

4 hours ago, Strider Pj.2193 said:

That would be a never.  The closest they ever got was a bar graph showing non labeled worlds without actual numbers that we were told the largest activity world was BG.

 

🤷

it's not so hard to put together 1 chart with every server population during each hour of the day without server names. This will also show what the difference really is between the most populated and the least populated server (wvw-wise). We all know that a link makes a huge difference in numbers, therefore aside from stacked bandwagoning servers (which are the by-product of Anet genius transfer policies) the rest will be closer than people think. And I'm talking over the 24h period, as different servers have obviously different time slot coverage. I mean, it's a chart with 15 lines and 24 data points for each series for crying out loud.

 

The fact that they have something to hide and/or the system used to make the decision is dumb, to put it mildly, is that Gandara has no link, no queues, is outnumbered on most maps (today, Saturday, at some point outnumbered on every map including EB and home) and...it's closed and has been closed for a year. Basically the only time Gandara has been opened to transfers is when they tinkered with server caps and everyone ended up open because they went from full to very high. 

 

Edit: I have to add that a lot of people suspect the decision is not made based on numbers or statistics actually. Gandara has tanked before to artificially depress numbers into almost nothing and get a link and it resulted in...no link. Business as usual. This was with pretty much with every major guild not playing wvw and no tags at any time of the day. People would just do dailies and log off.

Edited May 28, 2022 by Karagee.6830

[Diku.2546]

On 5/28/2022 at 7:09 AM, Valdel.7325 said:

I'm so angry and tired, I feel like taking a ban, just to let them know the frustration of trying to play continuously outnumbered. Watching what you've fought for, wiped away easily by linked servers is depressing. I've probably through mine and my son's account spent a thousand pounds a year on cosmetics, stories, expansions and utilities. I'm not wealthy, it's just my hobby. I don't expect a gold card, but when you know you've paid into Anet and are getting kitten for it, it hurts even more. Not because I'm entitled to an easier ride, but that like all of us we should have a fair ride and it's just not happening. 

I have a better vision & solution for WvW below ... imho

As a game director...I totally understand your reasons behind playing this WvW game mode.

ANet needs to give this game mode's community an updateable & dedicated WvW RoadMap to get us out of their "incompetent development decisions".

Example of Previously Updatable & most current Dedicated WvG RoadMap:

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/89449/wvg-world-vs-globes/p1

Hmmm...at least you can find comfort that you tried to warn everyone who is "pay"-ing attention & can say:

Told you so...

Critical insight based on personal observation - Posted August 13, 2020:

Before you go down this rabbit hole ... think carefully.

Which colored pill (red or blue) do you want to take?

The truth for EU Players ... click the Red Link:

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1311428/#Comment_1311428

Sorry, but the NA Players were presented this Truth ... almost 6 years ago on June 11, 2016.

For NA Players. .. It's so ridiculous that it's a meme:

#AlliancesComingSoon or #MyEoDPurchaseComingSoon

Which colored pill (red or blue) did you take?

Did you read through the history of the NA discussion threads to understand why your EU World Communities (ecosystem) are turning toxic & increasingly becoming inhospitable?

You'll have to find & click the "Told you so" - Red Links found in the above NA discussion threads to find the Truth.  Fun, huh?

---------------------------------------------------

RED - The state of your EU World's Communities as you know it will inevitably become like the NA World's.

---------------------------------------------------

Or

---------------------------------------------------

BLUE - The state of your EU World's Communities are OK & Alliances will fix everything ... nothing to see here ... move along.

---------------------------------------------------

World Linking threads are like a pressure valve to the WvW forum community that allows frustration levels to be vented so players can return with renewed hope.

Personal Observation - Nothing will change & all threads on this topic that came before & after ... will always sink & fall into obscurity ... time & time over again.

Personal Conviction - Keep proposing a better solution that gives detailed instructions in a RoadMap & Timeline to fix things.

Example of an Early WvG RoadMap Posted over 6 years ago on May 26,  2016.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/World-Linking-Beta/page/7#post6174617

I'm tired of discussing partial solutions that constantly use smoke & mirrors to engage the WvW Community & ANet developers that end up doing nothing to fix the 3 common WvW game mode problems since the launch of GW2.

Alliances solution is somewhat clear on details, but there's a lot of areas where players are often left to come up with their own "interpretation" on how everything will actually work.  Forum experts here love to deep dive these areas to demonstrate their knowledge.

We deserve a comprehensive solution with detailed instructions framed within an overall RoadMap & TimeLine on when we can expect things will happen.

RoadMap & TimeLine needs to be open to discussion & regularly updated to clarify areas lacking in detail ... if you have one ... please post it & lobby ANet to use it.

Yours truly,
Diku

Credibility requires critical insight & time.

Edited May 29, 2022 by Diku.2546

[Riba.3271]

The system is so bad.. Can we get the old one back? Pre-linking one but with 4 tiers and 1-up-1-down in EU.

[kamikharzeeh.8016]

dw alliances soon tm xDDD

[Karagee.6830]

9 hours ago, Threather.9354 said:

The system is so bad.. Can we get the old one back? Pre-linking one but with 4 tiers and 1-up-1-down in EU.

The logic behind linking is sound, but the implementation is demented and it's even worse when you consider how long they kept this stuff going. If they were counting total ACTIVE player hours (ie. not people who play 5-15 minutes a day to do 2-3 dailies and log off) and pairing the 4th most active server (in EU) with the lowest etc, it might work properly. But that is still predicated on the fact that there is an enormous difference between the top most active 3 servers and the bottom 3, which is unlikely in my view (ie. 4th+15th will greatly outnumber 1st + nobody).

 

Anet could have done many things to spread out the population starting with incentivising transfer to certain servers and disincentivising moving to or leaving other servers (by using dynamic pricing for transfers). There is a fundamental flaw of a system where 3 servers get no link, but transfers are definitely part of the problem as well (even for NA), because if they had different pricing to move to different servers (depending on active players statistics) and they locked transfers at the beginning and the end of the linking period, leaving 3-4 weeks in the middle when transfers are allowed, they could manage and spread out the population. But of course anything that curtailed transfers would lower revenues, so it's never going to happen.

Edited May 29, 2022 by Karagee.6830

[Karagee.6830]

I just want to add one thing to this discussion: Alliances are NOT going to fix the issue of Anet being unable to count active player hours properly (if Anet's people could count, we wouldn't be in the current situation in the first place) and 1 maxed out alliance is going to be only part of a team, so the players' control over numbers will be limited to that.

Edited May 29, 2022 by Karagee.6830

[Pharaohz.3470]

1 hour ago, Karagee.6830 said:

Alliances are NOT going to fix the issue

I agree, we have already tried the alliance system, it was a failure, a big mess. Nobody wants it.

[Corma.7268]

5 hours ago, Karagee.6830 said:

If they were counting total ACTIVE player hours (ie. not people who play 5-15 minutes a day to do 2-3 dailies and log off) and pairing the 4th most active server (in EU) with the lowest etc,

 

They do exactly THAT, that much they told us.

Various effects of apparently unbalanced linkings, full vs medium servers and such result from flaws in just counting playtime regardless of the distribution of these periods - a server may seem to get queues averytime just because all people try to play during lets say 8 hours of a day, while much more people playing evenly across all 24 hours never will see queues.

Maybe there simply is no good way to find good population balances. Even when you split the day in smaller chunks and try to match population in these chunks, the system can easily get exploited by assembling people at specific times AFTER the link has been done. And then there are the band wagons, transfers just after links, which immediately destroy every balance someone tries to achive.

[Karagee.6830]

5 hours ago, Corma.7268 said:

They do exactly THAT, that much they told us.

Various effects of apparently unbalanced linkings, full vs medium servers and such result from flaws in just counting playtime regardless of the distribution of these periods - a server may seem to get queues averytime just because all people try to play during lets say 8 hours of a day, while much more people playing evenly across all 24 hours never will see queues.

Maybe there simply is no good way to find good population balances. Even when you split the day in smaller chunks and try to match population in these chunks, the system can easily get exploited by assembling people at specific times AFTER the link has been done. And then there are the band wagons, transfers just after links, which immediately destroy every balance someone tries to achive.

I don't think you understand the situation with Gandara. Gandara has participation only at the weekend. Now, if you count the number of people who log in into wvw they probably have a lot, but if you counted the played hours they have less than many other servers at least 5 days a week. Gandara is often outnumbered on home and/or EB for long stretches any day and any time that is not reset or Saturday. And that includes near non-existent participation in the morning and central part of the day.

This is what pisses people on Gandara off: there are never queues, 5 out of 7 days of the week they are outnumbered on home and/or EB plus on the other borderlands throughout the day and they are always unlinked and closed to transfers despite all of the above.

This is why everyone knows that what Anet say (which has never been clear, to be perfectly honest) and what they actually do are very different things. And this is why nobody in his right mind would believe they use total number of hours played (for people who play more than, say, 20 minutes per session to discriminate between wvw players and people doing dailies in pve gear) per server and then match 1, 2, 3, 4+15, 5+14, 6+13 etc. because...you would have much less variability in the pairings.

The only thing that would convince me they have a non-idiotic and non-subjective system is to see the numbers and how they impact the decisions on links. Vague, unintelligible explanations simply won't do.

And let me repeat an obvious consequence of all this: alliances will be better, but they will suffer from this same issue. And since alliances will make transfers useless, they may as well start counting properly right now.

Edited May 29, 2022 by Karagee.6830

[Burial.1958]

1 hour ago, Karagee.6830 said:

I don't think you understand the situation with Gandara. Gandara has participation only at the weekend. Now, if you count the number of people who log in into wvw they probably have a lot, but if you counted the played hours they have less than many other servers at least 5 days a week. Gandara is often outnumbered on home and/or EB for long stretches any day and any time that is not reset or Saturday. And that includes near non-existent participation in the morning and central part of the day.

This is what pisses people on Gandara off: there are never queues, 5 out of 7 days of the week they are outnumbered on home and/or EB plus on the other borderlands throughout the day and they are always unlinked and closed to transfers despite all of the above.

This is why everyone knows that what Anet say (which has never been clear, to be perfectly honest) and what they actually do are very different things. And this is why nobody in his right mind would believe they use total number of hours played (for people who play more than, say, 20-30 minutes per session to discriminate between wvw players and people doing dailies in pve gear) per server and then match 1+x, 2+x, 3+x, 4+15, 5+14, 6+13 etc. because...you would have much less variability in the pairings.

The only thing that would convince me the have a non-idiotic and non-subjective system is to see the numbers and how they impact the decisions on links. Vague, unintelligible explanations simply won't do.

And let me repeat an obvious consequence of all this: alliances will be better, but they will suffer from this same issue. And since alliances will make transfers useless, they may as well start counting properly right now.

 They should simply merge some servers  + 1 bracket less.

[kamikharzeeh.8016]

9 hours ago, Turgon.2091 said:

I agree, we have already tried the alliance system, it was a failure, a big mess. Nobody wants it.

no we plainly had some few beta testing for it. nothing alike is the real idea of the alliances stuff. and most of the concepts ideas would fix literally all matchup-inducted issues so idk what u malding about again

 

links system is a big issue since many years now.

 

@Grebcol.5984 fixes nothing, the ppt and tier system itself is a big mess ngl. it literally says nothing about how people play, the worst players are often in high tiers due to beeing numberwise by far overfilled thanks to transfering constantly around idk

and that even despite ppt "win" beeing literally worthless

its basically people roleplaying "winning".... t1 EU was last  linking like over 1,5 months completely dead, zero content. only karmatrains

Edited May 29, 2022 by kamikharzeeh.8016