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Why Do People Follow Inept Commanders?

Jitters.9401

By Jitters.9401
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Jitters.9401

Jitters.9401

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I am roaming on glass Engi. Commander throws me an invite. Normally I do not join but figured why not. Might be fun.

 

About 8 of us. Taking south east tower. We get inside and on tower lord. 

Enemy group about same size attacks. The inept Commander says in chat to keep focusing the npc tower lord. So it was only myself and one other go to fight the enemy. We Wipe.

 

Commander wants to go back.  I make the suggestion that we focus the living people next time as they are the dangerous ones not npc's.

 

The Commander says "he knows what he is doing". So I go along for the fun and there is a thief I want to kill (he was jumping on my corpse).

 

Same tower. Get on lord and same enemy group comes in. Commander wants everyone to stack on him and focus the tower lord. I see my thief friend. I pop F1 (superspeed) F3 (Barrier) and then F2 (Grenade Barrage). Thief has a sliver of health and jumps/glides from tower and I go after him. 

 

I kill thief, head back up. Grenade barrage is ready to go. My Grenade barrage and Hammer#5  then Grenade #2 downs 4 of the enemy. Inept Commander keeps focusing the tower lord. I say "fudge it" and roll off the tower while my allies wipe. 

 

Commander wants to go back. I explain why focusing npc's with predetermined abilities is wrong when you have actual people to fight and 2 of the people right then say they will listen to the Commander because he knows what he is doing.

 

I laugh and tell them to enjoy wiping again

 Then I go back to roaming. 

 

But why? Why are people following useless commanders? 

 

Or the commander that tries to take a fully seiged enemy keep against equal numbers of enemies on the walls.  The fool keeps doing the same thing over and over.  Fails again and again but people keep following him I can't figure out why the sheeple can't look at the situation and realize it is insanely stupid and futile.

 

Normally if I see a tag at SM I head on over but when I see his name I just turn right back around. 

 

Edited by Jitters.9401
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Littlekenny.4196

Littlekenny.4196

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Posted
1 hour ago, Jitters.9401 said:

I am roaming on glass Engi. Commander throws me an invite. Normally I do not join but figured why not. Might be fun.

 

About 8 of us. Taking south east tower. We get inside and on tower lord. 

Enemy group about same size attacks. The inept Commander says in chat to keep focusing the npc tower lord. So it was only myself and one other go to fight the enemy. We Wipe.

 

Commander wants to go back.  I make the suggestion that we focus the living people next time as they are the dangerous ones not npc's.

 

The Commander says "he knows what he is doing". So I go along for the fun and there is a thief I want to kill (he was jumping on my corpse).

 

Same tower. Get on lord and same enemy group comes in. Commander wants everyone to stack on him and focus the tower lord. I see my thief friend. I pop F1 (superspeed) F3 (Barrier) and then F2 (Grenade Barrage). Thief has a sliver of health and jumps/glides from tower and I go after him. 

 

I kill thief, head back up. Grenade barrage is ready to go. My Grenade barrage and Hammer#5  then Grenade #2 downs 4 of the enemy. Inept Commander keeps focusing the tower lord. I say "fudge it" and roll off the tower while my allies wipe. 

 

Commander wants to go back. I explain why focusing npc's with predetermined abilities is wrong when you have actual people to fight and 2 of the people right then say they will listen to the Commander because he knows what he is doing.

 

I laugh and tell them to enjoy wiping again

 Then I go back to roaming. 

 

But why? Why are people following useless commanders? 

 

Or the commander that tries to take a fully seiged enemy keep against equal numbers of enemies on the walls.  The fool keeps doing the same thing over and over.  Fails again and again but people keep following him I can't figure out why the sheeple can't look at the situation and realize it is insanely stupid and futile.

 

Normally if I see a tag at SM I head on over but when I see his name I just turn right back around. 

 

Have you considered that the commanders plan may have required you and everybody else to work together. If you follow the commander then don't stick with their plan you can't call them inept since you never saw it. If that second time, you stayed on the commander and wiped instead of chasing a thief off tag then it would be fair to call them inept but you didn't give them a chance.

 

Even if it that does sound like they don't know what they are doing, there were around 8 of you and 2 pushed the enemy so there were only 3/4 of the group together which reduces survivability. You never actually gave the commander a chance.

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Jitters.9401

Jitters.9401

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37 minutes ago, Littlekenny.4196 said:

Have you considered that the commanders plan may have required you and everybody else to work together. If you follow the commander then don't stick with their plan you can't call them inept since you never saw it. If that second time, you stayed on the commander and wiped instead of chasing a thief off tag then it would be fair to call them inept but you didn't give them a chance.

 

Even if it that does sound like they don't know what they are doing, there were around 8 of you and 2 pushed the enemy so there were only 3/4 of the group together which reduces survivability. You never actually gave the commander a chance.

So concentrating on npc's and only while actual people are attacking you is a plan then they can go hard.  

 

You forgot the part where I downed 4 of them. The 4 downed got back up because everyone was attacking the npc.

 

Maybe learn to be a better troll.  Arguing something senseless like it makes sense is pretty weak. 

 

 

Too funny.  

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Littlekenny.4196

Littlekenny.4196

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Just now, Jitters.9401 said:

So concentrating on npc's and only while actual people are attacking you is a plan then they can go hard.  

 

You forgot the part where I downed 4 of them. The 4 downed got back up because everyone was attacking the npc.

 

Maybe learn to be a better troll.  Arguing something senseless like it makes sense is pretty weak. 

 

 

Too funny.  

I don't know the specifics of the situation but the commander may have been waiting for the enemies to group together in the choke to the lord's room to then pull and spike, or thinking there was enough sustain in the 8 players to kill the lord and force the enemies to push into that choke and kill them there. You downed 4 but as you said they all got back up so it was meaningless.

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DanAlcedo.3281

DanAlcedo.3281

Posted
Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, Jitters.9401 said:

I am roaming on glass Engi. Commander throws me an invite. Normally I do not join but figured why not. Might be fun.

 

About 8 of us. Taking south east tower. We get inside and on tower lord. 

Enemy group about same size attacks. The inept Commander says in chat to keep focusing the npc tower lord. So it was only myself and one other go to fight the enemy. We Wipe.

 

Commander wants to go back.  I make the suggestion that we focus the living people next time as they are the dangerous ones not npc's.

 

The Commander says "he knows what he is doing". So I go along for the fun and there is a thief I want to kill (he was jumping on my corpse).

 

Same tower. Get on lord and same enemy group comes in. Commander wants everyone to stack on him and focus the tower lord. I see my thief friend. I pop F1 (superspeed) F3 (Barrier) and then F2 (Grenade Barrage). Thief has a sliver of health and jumps/glides from tower and I go after him. 

 

I kill thief, head back up. Grenade barrage is ready to go. My Grenade barrage and Hammer#5  then Grenade #2 downs 4 of the enemy. Inept Commander keeps focusing the tower lord. I say "fudge it" and roll off the tower while my allies wipe. 

 

Commander wants to go back. I explain why focusing npc's with predetermined abilities is wrong when you have actual people to fight and 2 of the people right then say they will listen to the Commander because he knows what he is doing.

 

I laugh and tell them to enjoy wiping again

 Then I go back to roaming. 

 

But why? Why are people following useless commanders? 

 

Or the commander that tries to take a fully seiged enemy keep against equal numbers of enemies on the walls.  The fool keeps doing the same thing over and over.  Fails again and again but people keep following him I can't figure out why the sheeple can't look at the situation and realize it is insanely stupid and futile.

 

Normally if I see a tag at SM I head on over but when I see his name I just turn right back around. 

 

A. Not every commander is a Gw2 vet. Some are just starting. If you know better, help him learn instead of bitching about it. 

B. Ever heard of the term "win con"? Killing the lord means that the enemy is now forced to move. Killing only the enemy does not change the game state. 

You were the one in the wrong here. 

C. Just tag yourself and do better. Attitude like this is the reason alot of New coms don't want to tag up. And we need fresh blood. 

 

Edited by DanAlcedo.3281
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Jitters.9401

Jitters.9401

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5 minutes ago, iKeostuKen.2738 said:

More then likely you would have gotten some downs if you unloaded on the npc. Enemy players usually will die from the cleave and if the ring is up they have no choice but to go in.

Nice timing.

I literally just opened up the forums. Got home from work a moment ago.

 

The commander had pulled the tower lord out of the ring area. Like, when you stand at the bottom of the ramp and look up... to your left there is a small space on that side of the ramp that is enclosed on three sides and open on the east side. The enemy didn't even have to come in to melee range. Most just sat back on the platform (where you would jump off the south east tower to get to the sentry point) and threw ranged attack, while some would run up and cleave then run back out. Nothing but free hits.

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Jitters.9401

Jitters.9401

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1 minute ago, DanAlcedo.3281 said:

A. Not every commander is a Gw2 vet. Some are just starting. If you know better, help him learn instead of bitching about it. 

B. Ever heard of the term "win con"? Killing the lord means that the enemy is now forced to move. Killing only the enemy does not change the game state. 

C. Just tag yourself and do better. Attitude like this is the reason alot of New coms don't want to tag up. And we need fresh blood. 

You really do not read nor understand WvW very well do you?

 

(A) I did try to explain twice but the commander he made it clear he knew better so would not listen to logic.

 

(B) Killing the enemy 100% changes the game state. No enemy to fight means victory.  I personally downed 4 of the enemy. Had the commander focused on the enemy not the npc he and his crew never would have wiped that second time. 100% change in game state. Instead of a win it was a loss. Again.

 

(C) I prefer roaming. I do not like groups. I do not like blobs though sometimes I will pull out the heal scrapper to help. Part of learning being a good commander is listening. I prefer taking camps, ruins, killing yaks, and fighting enemy roamers. Much more fun. 

 

And what attitude? I never said a mean thing to the guy. I killed my thief then left because I knew they were going to wipe again. We do need new blood but maybe that new blood should be open to suggestions. 

 

 

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Svarty.8019

Svarty.8019

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The reason people follow inept commanders is because they know there will be relative safety there. At least you won't die alone.

 

The stock response to the OP's story is Gandhi's, "Be the change you want to see.", or more bluntly, "If you think you can do it better, tag up."

 

I think that's fair. 

 

 

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Xenesis.6389

Xenesis.6389

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6 hours ago, Jitters.9401 said:

Enemy group about same size attacks. The inept Commander says in chat to keep focusing the npc tower lord.

That's a huge red flag for me, no lord killing or tower capping is more important than killing the defending players, 9/10 times you will lose that type of fight, especially if it's not a well known fight type commander.

I sometimes follow those who are not that good at fighting simply to find a zerg fight, but I probably wouldn't trust them to win it so I would be cautious around them with positioning and taking less risk.

Edited by Xenesis.6389
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Svarty.8019

Svarty.8019

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4 minutes ago, Xenesis.6389 said:

no lord killing or tower capping is more important than killing the defending players

I agree. The enemy players drop bags and can do horrible things to your crappier players - it's most important to focus them even if there's only one. 

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Dawdler.8521

Dawdler.8521

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1 hour ago, Jitters.9401 said:

And what attitude? I never said a mean thing to the guy.

... and then you post about "inept commanders" on the forums instead.

You're really reading alot into someone who probably just tagged up to do something since no one else did anything. Maybe he had a plan, maybe he didnt. But why do you care if people follow him?

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kash.9213

kash.9213

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If the tag wants to pull them over the lord room ramp and burn everything together on your lane instead of theirs then you should have tried that first. Flex all you want but either that's a super casual tag just trying to give randoms something to do and you need to chill and help or bounce, or you broke whatever composition you might have had to light up a lane. Go ahead and give them your feedback but there's no need to actively work against them if they've factored you into their group. 

When I'm on my DE or core thief template I'll probably break off and intercept within port range around the area for the group since I'm not adding much passively or within radius. When I'm on my Specter template I'm going to be within radius and moving with the group even If I'm tethered to the side a little to set up a splash down or we're peeling out of a spot. 

Edited by kash.9213
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Draygo.9473

Draygo.9473

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Whining about this on the forums is inept.

 

I can see a handful of reasons why a commander may prefer to focus a tower champ.

 

1) Tower champ is < 10% hp

2) Commander is worried about enemy reinforcements and wants to cap asap.

3) The enemies are so few in number they are not a threat to the group and the group should focus on the wincon.

 

I have on several occasions stalled a cap long enough by getting part of the enemy group to chase me instead of focusing on the objective. Due to how the cap event scales the lord several people peeling off of the lord will increase the TTK by a lot. 

 

I'm not saying this particular situation warrants the 3 points above, but the commander isn't going to learn where the breakpoints are if you cause the lord to scale when the commander is calling for a quick kill. What the commander sees is some idiot not following the call, and then believes the call is indeed good if only people would follow it. 

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Ronin.4501

Ronin.4501

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So let me see if I can get this straight. OP complains about a commander's way of doing things, but squirrels off himself and the entire group wipes.  Other posters point out OP's mistake, and he responds by calling them all trolls.

 

So basically, you want to criticize the commander (and his lack of listening to your input), and when others criticize you...you complain about it.  Maybe you should learn to take others criticism positively before you start offering any of your own.

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Xenesis.6389

Xenesis.6389

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10 hours ago, Littlekenny.4196 said:

Have you considered that the commanders plan may have required you and everybody else to work together. If you follow the commander then don't stick with their plan you can't call them inept since you never saw it. If that second time, you stayed on the commander and wiped instead of chasing a thief off tag then it would be fair to call them inept but you didn't give them a chance.

 

Even if it that does sound like they don't know what they are doing, there were around 8 of you and 2 pushed the enemy so there were only 3/4 of the group together which reduces survivability. You never actually gave the commander a chance.

Do you actually think one extra dps player standing with the commander would have affected that entire outcome?

 

There's probably a dozen reasons why they failed that fight, above all telling every person in the area to target the lord and not the players who would be constantly throwing damage/cc at them, while also not even killing any of the downs they somehow generated.

 

It was a bad call from the commander, trying to fully kill a lord while an even sized group waited to rush them. And while the strategy to setup for a choke fight might be good, you are also pitting yourself in said choke which isn't good. When those downs were generated they should have pushed right through them to cleave kill and scatter the rest, he didn't, so OP dipped.

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kash.9213

kash.9213

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2 hours ago, Xenesis.6389 said:

Do you actually think one extra dps player standing with the commander would have affected that entire outcome?

 

There's probably a dozen reasons why they failed that fight, above all telling every person in the area to target the lord and not the players who would be constantly throwing damage/cc at them, while also not even killing any of the downs they somehow generated.

 

It was a bad call from the commander, trying to fully kill a lord while an even sized group waited to rush them. And while the strategy to setup for a choke fight might be good, you are also pitting yourself in said choke which isn't good. When those downs were generated they should have pushed right through them to cleave kill and scatter the rest, he didn't, so OP dipped.

So many fights cascade because one group slot gets wasted.

It probably was a bad call to attempt the tower in the first place but the tag probably thought a quick break bar burn could take the tower before help arrived. 

The tag also could have more correctly sized up their group where OP didn't, twice, and thought a quick burn was a better gamble than getting caught up in a quagmire of squirreling, which happened. 

OP said his piece in the moment. How he delivered his feedback will probably dictate how that tag and the others in that group process the information for the future. 

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Jitters.9401

Jitters.9401

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4 hours ago, Draygo.9473 said:

1) Tower champ is < 10% hp

2) Commander is worried about enemy reinforcements and wants to cap asap.

3) The enemies are so few in number they are not a threat to the group and the group should focus on the wincon.

(1) The commanders plan had always been pull the Tower Lord out of the lord room and down the ramp to that cramped spot.

 

(2) Had the commander actually kept the lord on the lord's room I never would have made this post. It still baffles me that people kept following the commander through multiple wipes using the same tactics. Not a single person trying to troll here has actually made a valid argument beyond maybe that was the only tag.

 

(3) I stated the enemies were equal in number.  But pve trolls really don't not read anything in its entirety. 

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