Fighting MAG for a week ruins the game mode. If only we got rewarded for defense

[Dralor.3701]

Lots of you still seem to be confused that Mag cares about ppt or what color the map is, just happy to have fights.

Flexing because you dropped supply traps is actually the best. 🙂

[Bigpapasmurf.5623]

I mean I am in Emhry Bay so ive recently came across MAG again and I gotta say, the ones ive seen havent been to bright when dealing with a thief in their towers/keeps. Now there was 1 group I was impressed with (wont say what they did or didnt do) of like 4 people, otherwise its super easy to sneak in towers/keeps.

 

They say they are looking for fights however when you are 1v1 or 2v2 them a crap ton more shows up forcing you to flee (thus making that statement redundant). I've had some decent fights 1v2, 1v3 with them (me being the 1), however you gotta have the same mindset as when going up against AIR or SKY or any from the Rose alliance or SIN guild(s)...where there is 1-2, there are more lurking around xD

 

Heck ive even caught a mag guild group clearly hacking (wont blast em here) and many have reported them. The way I see it...Mag is like BG.....weak small scale game, massive zerg game. Speaks volumes tho.

Anywho, just my 2 copper

[jul.7602]

BG has twice the number of guilds as Mag, and they are still losing the kdr.

[Mabi black.1824]

1 hour ago, jul.7602 said:

BG has twice the number of guilds as Mag, and they are still losing the kdr.

if you read the numbers right now k+d maguma exceeds BG by about 15%. so maguma has a flow and consequently a number of players higher than BG of about 15% I have no idea of the number of guilds but surely with your players you exceed your opponent by about 15%

with larger numbers it is easier to get a positive k/d, 50 vs 57.5 the larger team is more likely to cancel the team the smaller team. although this is not always true.

[lotus.5672]

4 hours ago, Mabi black.1824 said:

if you read the numbers right now k+d maguma exceeds BG by about 15%. so maguma has a flow and consequently a number of players higher than BG of about 15% I have no idea of the number of guilds but surely with your players you exceed your opponent by about 15%

with larger numbers it is easier to get a positive k/d, 50 vs 57.5 the larger team is more likely to cancel the team the smaller team. although this is not always true.

We were seriously outnumbered last night by both by bg with koin+rawr+ehug nuthug and db with vip+pugs. We had a TIE tag with maybe 15 ppl tops in squad, rest was the cloud doing their thing. They were still getting farmed by turns as they tried to split us so one could cap smc, but they are so bad at boonballing and we wiped them so fast that there was no need to split to fight those groups, legit bagfest.

Thanks BG and DB for the fights last night! Do it again tonight!

Edited June 29, 2022 by lotus.5672

[jul.7602]

6 hours ago, Mabi black.1824 said:

if you read the numbers right now k+d maguma exceeds BG by about 15%. so maguma has a flow and consequently a number of players higher than BG of about 15% I have no idea of the number of guilds but surely with your players you exceed your opponent by about 15%

with larger numbers it is easier to get a positive k/d, 50 vs 57.5 the larger team is more likely to cancel the team the smaller team. although this is not always true.

K/D tells you nothing about a server's population.

[Sleepwalker.1398]

On 6/28/2022 at 7:00 AM, Xenesis.6389 said:

Dunno what you all talking about, Mag is chasing after SoS obviously, there's still a lesson to be taught.

SoS is aware of it now.
They tanking T2 to escape to T3 to completely avoid Mag with scores just 1 point difference.
Knowing TC, they will ppt the crap out of everything and come reset, will be blaming each other while Mag spawn camps.

[Mabi black.1824]

10 hours ago, lotus.5672 said:

We were seriously outnumbered last night by both by bg with koin+rawr+ehug nuthug and db with vip+pugs. We had a TIE tag with maybe 15 ppl tops in squad, rest was the cloud doing their thing. They were still getting farmed by turns as they tried to split us so one could cap smc, but they are so bad at boonballing and we wiped them so fast that there was no need to split to fight those groups, legit bagfest.

Thanks BG and DB for the fights last night! Do it again tonight!

hello, I do not want to question your ability, I do not know, i am in Europe, you will certainly be very good, but the numbers are there to read, k + d I only added that even this week you surpass your opponents in number. are you 15 in the team? maybe around that team there are 40 other players who prefer not to join ? I don't really know.

Edited June 30, 2022 by Mabi black.1824

[Mabi black.1824]

7 hours ago, jul.7602 said:

K/D tells you nothing about a server's population.

k/d no, but k + d indisputably represents the flow and consequently the number of players that the teams have available. have you ever had a week where your team shows up on the enemy home border and you do pretty much what it wants? you go looking for an enemy group and you never find it? here, when it happens to you you can check for yourself that your k + d will be 40% larger than that of your enemy. 

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

This is largely why I just stopped playing WvW.

 

At one point EBay was being pushed up against Maguuma in literally every other matchup, and having our towers+keep on EBG being owned by them just became a common sight..no one could do anything about it even after throwing wave after wave at it for an entire day, so they just gave up entirely.

 

I'm just enjoying PvE and PvP (I know..) until they eventually release Alliances. I can't imagine what could fascinate players about sitting with siege on the enemy spawn point for literally days at a time.

Edited June 30, 2022 by Hannelore.8153

[AlCapwnd.7834]

21 hours ago, lotus.5672 said:

We were seriously outnumbered last night by both by bg with koin+rawr+ehug nuthug and db with vip+pugs. We had a TIE tag with maybe 15 ppl tops in squad, rest was the cloud doing their thing. They were still getting farmed by turns as they tried to split us so one could cap smc, but they are so bad at boonballing and we wiped them so fast that there was no need to split to fight those groups, legit bagfest.

Thanks BG and DB for the fights last night! Do it again tonight!

How do you like the BG T3 keep at your spawn. lol. MAG is getting treated well this week.

[Dralor.3701]

23 hours ago, Mabi black.1824 said:

k/d no, but k + d indisputably represents the flow and consequently the number of players that the teams have available. have you ever had a week where your team shows up on the enemy home border and you do pretty much what it wants? you go looking for an enemy group and you never find it? here, when it happens to you you can check for yourself that your k + d will be 40% larger than that of your enemy. 

Had to come back and edit response, sorry but your theory does not make any sense.

Edited July 1, 2022 by Dralor.3701

[Mabi black.1824]

3 hours ago, Dralor.3701 said:

Had to come back and edit response, sorry but your theory does not make any sense.

hello, of course everyone is free to believe what he wants, or see what he wants or pretend not to see. in this game when you go online you can only do two things, or kill someone or someone kills you. if my team does not have online players is not able to grow those two coefficients, no one dies and no one kills, why? because there are no players online.

if at the end of the week your enemy has grown that coefficient to twice yours, it is because he has simply had twice your activity, therefore of players.

if at the end of the week your enemy has grown that coefficient to twice yours, it is because he has simply had twice your activity, therefore of players. you do not care about the k/d ratio if positive or if negative, you are interested in the sum k + d.

 

with this I do not want to take anything away from maguma, they will certainly be good and organized players. for sure even this week they surpass their enemies in number. and just a fact. it is not a fault, or something negative for maguma.

[Za Shaloc.3908]

The more you talk about Mag, the more they grow in power.

 

[Dralor.3701]

6 hours ago, Mabi black.1824 said:

hello, of course everyone is free to believe what he wants, or see what he wants or pretend not to see. in this game when you go online you can only do two things, or kill someone or someone kills you. if my team does not have online players is not able to grow those two coefficients, no one dies and no one kills, why? because there are no players online.

if at the end of the week your enemy has grown that coefficient to twice yours, it is because he has simply had twice your activity, therefore of players.

if at the end of the week your enemy has grown that coefficient to twice yours, it is because he has simply had twice your activity, therefore of players. you do not care about the k/d ratio if positive or if negative, you are interested in the sum k + d.

 

with this I do not want to take anything away from maguma, they will certainly be good and organized players. for sure even this week they surpass their enemies in number. and just a fact. it is not a fault, or something negative for maguma.

Alright trying to help you out here.

Lets say server A has a harbinger sitting outside enemy spawn. Five bads from server B run out and die to said harb. Rinse repeat however many times. This total sum of k+d means nothing for the population, just who fed more.

[Chaba.5410]

Total K+D of T2 NA (as sampled yesterday) is the lowest in NA while T4 is the highest total K+D.  Are T2 teams the lowest population teams?  No.

K+D is an imperfect measure of population even though it's the better source available.  NA tends to have more activity level mismatches between teams than in EU due to higher number of non-NA prime players.

Edited July 1, 2022 by Chaba.5410

[Phelan.2014]

6 hours ago, Mabi black.1824 said:

hello, of course everyone is free to believe what he wants, or see what he wants or pretend not to see. in this game when you go online you can only do two things, or kill someone or someone kills you. if my team does not have online players is not able to grow those two coefficients, no one dies and no one kills, why? because there are no players online.

if at the end of the week your enemy has grown that coefficient to twice yours, it is because he has simply had twice your activity, therefore of players.

if at the end of the week your enemy has grown that coefficient to twice yours, it is because he has simply had twice your activity, therefore of players. you do not care about the k/d ratio if positive or if negative, you are interested in the sum k + d.

 

with this I do not want to take anything away from maguma, they will certainly be good and organized players. for sure even this week they surpass their enemies in number. and just a fact. it is not a fault, or something negative for maguma.

 

You keep posting this and it doesn't make sense to me. Maybe I'm missing something, so let's do an ultra simplified hypothetical.

 

Assumptions: two teams with equally skilled players, 10 people on each side for a total of 20 players. Red team attacking a tower, blue team defending. No new players will spawn in, and no players will log out.

 

Red attacks blue and wipes; all blues survive. Now we have ten kills and ten deaths generated by 20 players.

 

Red tries again, and they wipe again, blue suffers no losses again. Now 20 players have generated 20 kills and 20 deaths.

 

Red tries again, with the same results. Now the same 20 players have generated 30 kills and 30 deaths. Blue now has a 3:1 KDR, and your K+D theory indicates a 'flow' of what, 30? But there were only 20 players.

 

Obviously in a real world scenario, red would score some kills, and eventually blue will run out of sup and red will get in, or blue pulls EWP or at least calls out on /t and more defenders show up. Any blues who die will likely respawn and come back to the tower, etc.

 

But your theory is still flawed because it doesn't take into account the fact that any given player can die and respawn indefinitely, generating multiple kills and deaths over a play session or even an entire match.

 

I can see how in some cases a higher k+d could indicate more players on one side, but it could also indicate a skill inequity and there's no way to parse that from just kills and deaths. Better players will generate more kills for their side, and subpar players will generate more deaths for their side.

 

Something that your theory and my scenario don't take into account is the three way nature of WvW and the fact that we have no way to know which of the three sides generated any given death.

 

In short, the data set you're using doesn't give enough information to make any meaningful conclusions. The only meaningful conclusion you can make is that one side or another had more 'activity', but that doesn't necessarily equate to more players.

[Xenesis.6389]

Dunno why you guys keep bothering...

[Mabi black.1824]

33 minutes ago, Dralor.3701 said:

Alright trying to help you out here.

Lets say server A has a harbinger sitting outside enemy spawn. Five bads from server B run out and die to said harb. Rinse repeat however many times. This total sum of k+d means nothing for the population, just who fed more.

ok let's try to help each other together then. those 5 friends of yours who continue to wp go out and die immediately and if they have a hard head they will continue to die constantly. try and try again and again and again. perfect the coefficient of those two teams begins to count 5k on one side and 5d on the other, again, again and again.

well this is called flow, oh my God there is still activity in wvw, these are players who play and make sure that those two small numbers move, grow. if you don't have players playing that number doesn't grow, and if at the end of the week your team has k+d 50,000 and your opponent 25,000 it simply means that he had 50% less flow (and therefore players) than you.

[Mabi black.1824]

36 minutes ago, Chaba.5410 said:

Total K+D of T2 NA (as sampled yesterday) is the lowest in NA while T4 is the highest total K+D.  Are T2 teams the lowest population teams?  No.

K+D is an imperfect measure of population even though it's the better source available.  NA tends to have more activity level mismatches between teams than in EU due to higher number of non-NA prime players.

hi chaba,

what you are doing is a mistake. I never said to compare t2 with t4 in this case if you compare k+d you don't get anything.

you can compare the k + d of the three competing teams. you don't get a precise number of players, but you get a precise proportion, the comparison of green k+d versus blue k+d versus red k+d.

Edited July 1, 2022 by Mabi black.1824

[Mabi black.1824]

28 minutes ago, Phelan.2014 said:

 

You keep posting this and it doesn't make sense to me. Maybe I'm missing something, so let's do an ultra simplified hypothetical.

 

Assumptions: two teams with equally skilled players, 10 people on each side for a total of 20 players. Red team attacking a tower, blue team defending. No new players will spawn in, and no players will log out.

 

Red attacks blue and wipes; all blues survive. Now we have ten kills and ten deaths generated by 20 players.

 

Red tries again, and they wipe again, blue suffers no losses again. Now 20 players have generated 20 kills and 20 deaths.

 

Red tries again, with the same results. Now the same 20 players have generated 30 kills and 30 deaths. Blue now has a 3:1 KDR, and your K+D theory indicates a 'flow' of what, 30? But there were only 20 players.

 

Obviously in a real world scenario, red would score some kills, and eventually blue will run out of sup and red will get in, or blue pulls EWP or at least calls out on /t and more defenders show up. Any blues who die will likely respawn and come back to the tower, etc.

 

But your theory is still flawed because it doesn't take into account the fact that any given player can die and respawn indefinitely, generating multiple kills and deaths over a play session or even an entire match.

 

I can see how in some cases a higher k+d could indicate more players on one side, but it could also indicate a skill inequity and there's no way to parse that from just kills and deaths. Better players will generate more kills for their side, and subpar players will generate more deaths for their side.

 

Something that your theory and my scenario don't take into account is the three way nature of WvW and the fact that we have no way to know which of the three sides generated any given death.

 

In short, the data set you're using doesn't give enough information to make any meaningful conclusions. The only meaningful conclusion you can make is that one side or another had more 'activity', but that doesn't necessarily equate to more players.

hi phelan,

listen to me you wrote it in a really complicated way I can not follow all those calculations. trust me k+d represents the amount of flow and therefore of players playing the mode of your team. you can compare this data with the other two teams in your game, and at the end of the week you will know precisely the balance of the game (in terms of percentage) 😉

[Dralor.3701]

1 hour ago, Mabi black.1824 said:

ok let's try to help each other together then. those 5 friends of yours who continue to wp go out and die immediately and if they have a hard head they will continue to die constantly. try and try again and again and again. perfect the coefficient of those two teams begins to count 5k on one side and 5d on the other, again, again and again.

well this is called flow, oh my God there is still activity in wvw, these are players who play and make sure that those two small numbers move, grow. if you don't have players playing that number doesn't grow, and if at the end of the week your team has k+d 50,000 and your opponent 25,000 it simply means that he had 50% less flow (and therefore players) than you.

That is not correct. It seems you are confusing population and activity.

Edited July 1, 2022 by Dralor.3701

[lotus.5672]

23 hours ago, AlCapwnd.7834 said:

How do you like the BG T3 keep at your spawn. lol. MAG is getting treated well this week.

When I login by the night (like most mag do) we have enough people to retake the map. So its just a normal day.

[HARDOFREADING.7298]

   Man....I hope there's a forum in t2.   Wouldn't want to miss any of this Mag bravado

[lotus.5672]

17 hours ago, HARDOFREADING.7298 said:

   Man....I hope there's a forum in t2.   Wouldn't want to miss any of this Mag bravado

WvW chief of police Julian is radio silent because he is hatching a plan to catch wvw's most wanted criminal: Indo.