Double or TRIPLE the skill target cap in wvw

[mysticozzy.3589]

As title says, its pathetic trying to down a boon tank blob these days. Bunker down and sustain, wins this. its becoming not much fun anymore and infuriating 

[MedievalThings.5417]

13 minutes ago, mysticozzy.3589 said:

As title says, its pathetic trying to down a boon tank blob these days. Bunker down and sustain, wins this. its becoming not much fun anymore and infuriating 

I would say get on spellbreaker and bubble them, but because that actually worked, Anet nerfed it too.  Anet nerfs anything that slows down or works against boon-sharing blobs that press 1.

[God.2708]

How much damage do you need to kill a booned up player?

[kamikharzeeh.8016]

while i agree sorta, let me mention ONCE AGAIN that anet lowered the target caps on everything & everything's grandma for the PURPOSE of reducing lag

 

and it sometimes still lags like $&$§" on threeway zergfights and some stealthings ... so probably it is not reasonable to enforce more lags for that.

 

just having back old damage cofficients and retaliation boon would be way more benefitting to the "small vs big numbers problem"

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

How about for WvW only they bring in some of the PvE coefficients on damage.

 

*Cough* Dragon Slash *Cough*

 

That way you can actually bust a boon blob up.

[hunkamania.7561]

You cannot win outnumbered fights(unless they are trash) right now which makes this game garbage for guild groups atm..  Need a way for small groups to be able to kill large groups and the only way of doing that seems to be increasing the AoE cap.  I doubt Anet would do it but increasing damage skills to 10 and trying it would not hurt. increasing it as you go(15 20 30 etc) would be the way to go to see if it makes the game lag or not.

[Swagger.1459]

“The point is, it is very much a limitation of our engine. The load on the server CPU would be quite simply unsustainable if we were to increase the AoE cap as the more players hit by skills the more calculations it has to do and it actually starts increasing exponentially, rather than sequentially. We continue to seek out ways to squeeze more performance out of our game and our servers, but it is highly unlikely we would ever make a change to the AoE limits on player skills.”

…

”Just wanted to hop in and mention, again, that the AoE cap on player skills is a technical limitation. Were we to increase that, skill lag would get considerably worse.”

/thread

Edited June 22, 2022 by Swagger.1459

[hunkamania.7561]

5 hours ago, Swagger.1459 said:

“The point is, it is very much a limitation of our engine. The load on the server CPU would be quite simply unsustainable if we were to increase the AoE cap as the more players hit by skills the more calculations it has to do and it actually starts increasing exponentially, rather than sequentially. We continue to seek out ways to squeeze more performance out of our game and our servers, but it is highly unlikely we would ever make a change to the AoE limits on player skills.”

…

”Just wanted to hop in and mention, again, that the AoE cap on player skills is a technical limitation. Were we to increase that, skill lag would get considerably worse.”

/thread

 

Ya but they have skills with no AoE cap like breach and that mesmer shield skill so they might as well limit those skills if that's the case.... even that trail of anguish on the necro hits everybody or whatever it's called..  Could make a few skills hit everyone like wells for example and expand from there..

Edited June 22, 2022 by hunkamania.7561

[mysticozzy.3589]

bumping this again. it need to happen to be able to fight against these stupid boonblob meta. 

NERF THE BLOB kitten make the game fun again

 

[Svarty.8019]

On 6/22/2022 at 3:22 AM, Ubi.4136 said:

I would say get on spellbreaker and bubble them, but because that actually worked, Anet nerfed it too.  Anet nerfs anything that slows down or works against boon-sharing blobs that press 1.

... because if a small group can use it to zergbust, simple mathematics lets you imagine that a giant squad can use it to mega-zergbust. The fights were even more one-sided than usual. Good teams were too much better than bad ones.

In conclusion: open field fights are stupid because one side is usually objectively worse. The objectives are there to provide a leveller for the weaker team.

[MedievalThings.5417]

4 hours ago, Svarty.8019 said:

... because if a small group can use it to zergbust, simple mathematics lets you imagine that a giant squad can use it to mega-zergbust. The fights were even more one-sided than usual. Good teams were too much better than bad ones.

In conclusion: open field fights are stupid because one side is usually objectively worse. The objectives are there to provide a leveller for the weaker team.

But they don't level anything.  The only time the objective matters is when both sides are already equal size, which nowadays, is almost never.  Size is all that matters and boon sharing is broken.  Every group runs around with perma every boon.  Smaller, better groups get the occasional kill off them, but downstate makes it so they instantly res everyone.  The design of almost every objective favors the attackers, and always favors them when they have more.  Everything is weighted to make the boon blobs win just based on size and not based on skill.  Stacking in the smallest area to completely negate damage is a horrible design.  Maybe removing the target cap isn't the solution, but if the servers could take it, it would be worth a try.

[kamikharzeeh.8016]

On 6/22/2022 at 11:53 PM, hunkamania.7561 said:

 

Ya but they have skills with no AoE cap like breach and that mesmer shield skill so they might as well limit those skills if that's the case.... even that trail of anguish on the necro hits everybody or whatever it's called..  Could make a few skills hit everyone like wells for example and expand from there..

case u missed it, mesmer shield target cap gets removed now.

 

breaches is absolutely necessary. ik u ppl won't ever admit it, but the only sense making weapon against your feared "bOoN bAlLs" are meta built scourges who know how to do their job.

[Aeolus.3615]

33 minutes ago, kamikharzeeh.8016 said:

case u missed it, mesmer shield target cap gets removed now.

 

breaches is absolutely necessary. ik u ppl won't ever admit it, but the only sense making weapon against your feared "bOoN bAlLs" are meta built scourges who know how to do their job.

 

I always tough tides of time had no enemy limit xD, its a temporal wave hitting the battle field, never tough nor noticed it had  target limit.

One or other skill isnt that bad, it can even be refreshing to the game, some ele staff skills should have similiar effect tho even if those skills get big CD has trade off.

Edited June 26, 2022 by Aeolus.3615

[CrimsonRise.7650]

The main problem is, we're once again getting skill lag during 3 way large scale fights, especially on reset night in the EU, but it also happens outside of reset night too.

Edited June 26, 2022 by CrimsonNeonite.1048

[Aeolus.3615]

6 minutes ago, CrimsonNeonite.1048 said:

The main problem is, we're already getting skill lag during 3 way large scale fights, especially on reset night in the EU.

workign as intended :) expect  more perma stuff coming up and more spam in future of the game

spamming  mass quickness and stealth is a way to bork up enemies that dont have good conection or top notch computers, some guilds been doing just for that purpose, yet every one admits is workign just fine :P  even Anet ignores its existence or dont belive what happens :P

In terms of lags fixing just expect the game  to get worse and worse.

 

Edited June 26, 2022 by Aeolus.3615

[Ovalkvadratcylinder.9365]

yes. lets increase the target cap so the boon blobs have an easier time farming the noobs the refuse to learn to play efficient classes, look at other players to time the burst with theirs, dodge, equip skills that fit the situation rather than just running the same thing for all type of fights, dodge, shadowstep, dodge, not run in a straight line after a blob that obviously isnt fleeing but rather rounding up noobs for easy bags... yes im in favor 

[Aeolus.3615]

21 minutes ago, Ovalkvadratcylinder.9365 said:

yes. lets increase the target cap so the boon blobs have an easier time farming the noobs the refuse to learn to play efficient classes, look at other players to time the burst with theirs, dodge, equip skills that fit the situation rather than just running the same thing for all type of fights, dodge, shadowstep, dodge, not run in a straight line after a blob that obviously isnt fleeing but rather rounding up noobs for easy bags... yes im in favor 

Well deppends the skill offcourse  and a skill with very high target cap should be also punishive to the group and caster if not used well, this is how strong skills tend to balanced in every mmo, would be like 2 edge sword basicly.

[Doggie.3184]

And they wonder why I keep asking for more Thief AoEs XD My dagger can't even hit 3 enemies still and the last two elite specs hit only one enemy. But only like 1 Thief per 30 or 40 players in blob battles though so no one cares I guess.

[Svarty.8019]

6 hours ago, Ubi.4136 said:

Size is all that matters [..]

The design of almost every objective favors the attackers, [..]
Everything is weighted to make the boon blobs win just based on size and not based on skill. [..]

Maybe removing the target cap isn't the solution, but if the servers could take it, it would be worth a try.

Size is all that matters because people came on the forum and complained about all the things that could hurt zergs.

Example: Target caps on Arrow Carts got reduced to 25. WTF? That hurts small attacking groups and rewards giant ones.  

It's too hard to attack with small groups and too easy to attack with large ones. That is a very delicate balance that should be addressed.

 

I think you've got a point about removing the target caps, but not for regular player skills. Siege should have target caps removed. The giant groups are mitigating even cannons, catapults and trebuchets - imho the target caps on siege should be removed. I'm not going to say it's the perfect solution, but you're right that the giant groups have no down-sides at the moment.

[Dralor.3701]

They really need to figure something out because it’s basically becoming unplayable. They keep nerfing DPS to the point these minstrel blobs don’t even have to reposition, just sit at full health eating full dps rotations with boons for days.

[MedievalThings.5417]

41 minutes ago, Dralor.3701 said:

They really need to figure something out because it’s basically becoming unplayable. They keep nerfing DPS to the point these minstrel blobs don’t even have to reposition, just sit at full health eating full dps rotations with boons for days.

Anet's solution was to nerf winds again cause they might have had to move.  /smh

[enkidu.5937]

On 6/22/2022 at 6:29 PM, Swagger.1459 said:

“The point is, it is very much a limitation of our engine. The load on the server CPU would be quite simply unsustainable if we were to increase the AoE cap as the more players hit by skills the more calculations it has to do and it actually starts increasing exponentially, rather than sequentially. We continue to seek out ways to squeeze more performance out of our game and our servers, but it is highly unlikely we would ever make a change to the AoE limits on player skills.”

…

”Just wanted to hop in and mention, again, that the AoE cap on player skills is a technical limitation. Were we to increase that, skill lag would get considerably worse.”

/thread

By that "logic", Anet should balance against mindless 50+ stacking on tag. To lower the CPU load.

 

Micromanaged movement these days of a full blob already turned  big-scale fights into multiboxing. So, excuse me to ask why Anet increases boon spread, and killed the bubble, and lowered target cap. All of this leads to even more stacking, ppl dont even like it, but have to because of Meta-reasons.

[kamikharzeeh.8016]

u guys are making such random claims...

 

its not boonballs... like on NA us see pretty well why ppl cry about boonballs, your scourges don't do their job in many fights, most even. if there's  no booncorrupts from one of the most important classes and the FB/scrappers slack with their supports, then YES OFC nothing will die, everyone will have full boons...

 

the game has weird lags in EU during primetime, without even full 60v60v60 beeing the case.

 

and since target caps are a lag generator, WHY is siege no target capped yet? makes zero sense, it shoulda been the first thing to get caps, not the last

 

all these random things that provide inequality in fights shoulda have touched way before anet trying to balance classes with their limited knowledge devs, sorry :S

 

[Aeolus.3615]

12 hours ago, Svarty.8019 said:

Size is all that matters because people came on the forum and complained about all the things that could hurt zergs.

Example: Target caps on Arrow Carts got reduced to 25. WTF? That hurts small attacking groups and rewards giant ones.  

It's too hard to attack with small groups and too easy to attack with large ones. That is a very delicate balance that should be addressed.

 

I think you've got a point about removing the target caps, but not for regular player skills. Siege should have target caps removed. The giant groups are mitigating even cannons, catapults and trebuchets - imho the target caps on siege should be removed. I'm not going to say it's the perfect solution, but you're right that the giant groups have no down-sides at the moment.

allow me to add another note, AC's only hit target 1x time per seconds, a player wont be hitted by several ac's cause there is a limit of 1  hit per target per second on AC's.

If theres 10 ac's shooting atr 5 players its just 1 hit per second, reason most groups can face tank siege.

In the past ive been in situations of barelly feel the damage of the 10+ ac's while the group was arround 10-15ish players.

Thing is players requested Anet to nerf ac's and Anet obeyed...AC's were never death setence to organized groups in 1st place.

Edited June 27, 2022 by Aeolus.3615

[kamikharzeeh.8016]

what u kinda miss again is that ac has different hit skills, mortars as well and they'll load u with condi - the plain dmg hits are catas , cannons and trebs

 

notsure if it really works like aeolus says, bc few superior acs is, or feels like a ton of dmg yet. the healing availability isnt that good, especially since the condis stack and u cannot avoid them really

 

i've never seen "small groups" beeing able to sustain siegefire of several pieces. blobs, yeah ofc. blobclouds and zergclouds tho get melted quite fast by it, as they lack the necessary support classes