༼ つ ◕◕ ༽つ UNSUMMON PATCH NOTES ༼ つ ◕◕ ༽つ

[Gorem.8104]

10 hours ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

Ahem...

I've been here reading everything, though apparently turning a 4 letter word into a shorter 3 letter word on a day when emotions were running high, both here and at Anet, drew the ire of a moderator. @CalmTheStorm.2364, @Gorem.8104, @Grand Marshal.4098 thanks for being worried. @Starbreaker.6507, thanks for letting them know, that EoD meta was close wasn't it? What a week to be muted...

And what a week it was. First, all our fears of Anet's approach to balance was confirmed, then the balance patch handled banners the exact way we all feared showing such an utter lack of caring on the balance teams part, coupled with Engi getting the pew-pew from the balance gods to pew everything down because the balance lead just so happens to really like Mechanist (which is fine, I'm not going to begrudge someone having fun on their preferred class, but by Lyssa's Double Booty please play the other specs as well if you are on the balance team!)

WOW!

For the record Engi rifle did suck and needed buffs. I won't begrudge the engis their fun. I played that with my Mechanist this weekend, and my god that was some of the most fun I've had in GW2 ever. The problem is that they aren't even handed with such things. Engi got a supper fun rework to their very underperforming core power weapon, and warrior got...

And empty skill bar when picking up banners.

It's been called a cruel joke. And it is. The guy on Reddit posting a medieval monk's artwork of Tyria posted the warrior during this week. It was a naked Fool complete with a fool's hat carrying the banner of discipline. Needless to say Reddit removed the post. But that Reddit post was right.

Warrior has become the fool of Anet this week.

To the balance team's credit (or maybe just Grouch's?) they want to make things right. They are going to go back over Banners for the August 2nd patch.

Do I have faith? Some. I think somebody had a "Come to Jesus" talk with the balance team. I don't know if there is enough time though with what little they have. The path of least resistance may just be bringing back the old bundle skills for now and making parts of them different. Things like the Rally skill giving  quickness as well as the initial summon. Things like increasing the AA chain's damages (to a LI build level of DPS) while  giving  things thematic to the banner on the AA (heal for tactics, barrier for defense, weakness for discipline, burn for strength, and stability (?) for the elite). Plant Standard could also pulse quickness again.

Meanwhile, I've seen the warrior forums come alive in a way I have not seen in a long time with some extremely constructive and helpful feedback for the devs. I've seen numerous ideas for how Tactics, Banners, and quickness can all be made to work for warrior, and they've all been good.

What they gave us for banners was the scaffolding of a rework. If they even once came to the warrior forums and shared their ideas with us, any one of the denizens of this subforum could have told them it was a bad idea and dead on arrival and saved them an immense amount of heartache. That is one lesson I hope they learned from this. They're going to be posting balance notes WELL in advance from now on, so do not be shy in your feedbacks then.

One silver lining to all this is that I think it ripped the scab off and exposed how bad warrior has gotten in all game modes. Bladesworn is currently propped up to keep it going, but when the shininess of EoD wears off and it gets 'balanced' all the mechanical problems of it will become apparent to even the non mains.

Anet should focus on Banners and Tactics until August 2nd to make right the mistake of a balance patch they released on the 28th. Give them that time and keep giving vocal feedback about those things.

And yet that is not all that is dragging warrior down, and they need to not be allowed to forget that. Teapot mentioned it on one of his streams this week that perhaps it is time to turn Spellbreaker into a true support spec. I think he is right, but not as a quickness role. I'll share a more in depth post on my overall feedback on Banners and Tactics along with nudges for other things to align with potential support roles later. Until then, have a Happy 4th of July to the USA crowd, and happy Saturday to the non USA crowd.

ayyy Lan's back! And already has been more thought into Warrior then anyone in Anet's entire staff team has done for the past seven years in a single post. Although with how bad the last changes were for Warrior, maybe someone does know what they are doing and just really dislikes its existence? Or maybe its bias and wiki use while not consulting literally anyone on the warrior forums? oh wait I mean nvm... 😉 

 

Glad to see ya back! I mean being fair here, when we saw that so many people were against this I saw everyone thinking that there was no way they would release the patch in this state, that they'd be fools to do so. Hah. Surprised more of us didn't get the timeout hammer. They were just deleting my posts instead, had a few removed with no warning. 

 

5 hours ago, Mungrul.9358 said:

 

I similarly got sent to the sin bin, merely for thanking someone for reminding me to block them. Like literally seconds after I posted it.

Some posters are favoured.

 

 

Remember April fools? I got hit for the words "Woof!", but because I had said it outside the one thread, I got a week timeout. It does seem to be something they hand out like candy, and seeing here, to a lot of Warriors for some reason. 

They seriously just do not like the class for some reason. 

[Gorem.8104]

3 hours ago, ArchonWing.9480 said:

Good summary.

Warrior is my least played class and I only came in here to say that I found the patch notes  for them to be incomprehensible and appalling.

I think everyone was expecting the banners to pulse quickness. Clearly this must be a bug? Well...

The problem with banners really was that it was one of the only ways Warrior could get into groups. If they had to change it then they should have changed it to simply something that spawns on our backs and pulses its boons constantly for its entire use. 

how about 20 second use time, covers quickness for each of those seconds, three banners for perm quickness uptime with no need for boon generation gear. or adjust it that with boon generation you could go down to 2 banners. Or make the trait simply make the cd for them 40 seconds long. Harb's get to pulse perm quickness in full viper gear with dps runes. So it'd only be fair if ours covered multiple boons on use and easy gave perm quickness. Strength banner easily giving 25 stacks of might over its duration of 20 seconds and keeping people there while also giving Fury to the group and swiftness. 
I mean even with all the speculations, its amazing how it ended up worse then anyone would have thought. Quickness only on use, and you have to place it, and if you pick it up to move it you lose your action bar. And your teammates cannot move them. And the might one does one stack of might for 5 seconds every 3 seconds. Like we knew it would be bad but that was honestly amazing just how bad. 

There is so many cool ways to give Warrior support options. If Anet wanted to that is. If Spellbreaker was turned into a support spec, that'd be great. It would be awesome to have a warrior spec not melee dps out of our 4. 

Edited July 3, 2022 by Gorem.8104

[ArchonWing.9480]

1 hour ago, Gorem.8104 said:

The problem with banners really was that it was one of the only ways Warrior could get into groups. If they had to change it then they should have changed it to simply something that spawns on our backs and pulses its boons constantly for its entire use. 

how about 20 second use time, covers quickness for each of those seconds, three banners for perm quickness uptime with no need for boon generation gear. or adjust it that with boon generation you could go down to 2 banners. Or make the trait simply make the cd for them 40 seconds long. Harb's get to pulse perm quickness in full viper gear with dps runes. So it'd only be fair if ours covered multiple boons on use and easy gave perm quickness. Strength banner easily giving 25 stacks of might over its duration of 20 seconds and keeping people there while also giving Fury to the group and swiftness. 
I mean even with all the speculations, its amazing how it ended up worse then anyone would have thought. Quickness only on use, and you have to place it, and if you pick it up to move it you lose your action bar. And your teammates cannot move them. And the might one does one stack of might for 5 seconds every 3 seconds. Like we knew it would be bad but that was honestly amazing just how bad. 

There is so many cool ways to give Warrior support options. If Anet wanted to that is. If Spellbreaker was turned into a support spec, that'd be great. It would be awesome to have a warrior spec not melee dps out of our 4. 

The deletion of unique buffs is a bit questionable since unique buffs are simply the easiest way to keep a class relevant. (Long live spotter, RIP)

 

At the very least cooldowns need to be reduced. This whole "pick up to reduce cooldowns" thing was never fun, and at this rate engi turrets are more fun banners than  banners, and that's definitely not a compliment.

I think they should work like ele conjured weapons and should be fully functional weapons. It should have like 1 burst skill and 3 buffing skills.

At at the very least, they should always pulse quickness-- non negotiable--  but make it so that you pulse more if the banner is picked up (by anyone).

That may sound strong, but come on, I guarantee you whatever this becomes will be harder than spamming 2 mantras and an elite whenever you remember. You'd have to manage like 4 different weapons

Otherwise why would you devote entire utility slots and a trait tree to it? And why would you devote an entire slot to the warrior to begin with?

I understand there are some forces in the game that frown upon active gameplay, but meh.

I dunno. I've always just liked the idea of warriors dropping banners so allies can use them to beat up people. However the skills sucked and then they were removed. :s

Edited July 3, 2022 by ArchonWing.9480

[Gorem.8104]

Yeah, not entirely sure why its Anet's intent to remove unique buffs from the game. But to be fair, we predicted they would do that months ago when they first announced the banner rework. Had hopeful people back then. But we knew they would for some reason remove the unique effects, rendering them useless. We called them out months ago, and yet, ignored like usual. 

Seems to be what Anet's best at, ignoring everyone while telling you they are listening time and again. Please Anet, just revert the entire balance update and start again. And actually put some effort into it. 

Edited July 4, 2022 by Gorem.8104

[ArchonWing.9480]

11 hours ago, Gorem.8104 said:

Yeah, not entirely sure why its Anet's intent to remove unique buffs from the game. But to be fair, we predicted they would do that months ago when they first announced the banner rework. Had hopeful people back then. But we knew they would for some reason remove the unique effects, rendering them useless. We called them out months ago, and yet, ignored like usual. 

Seems to be what Anet's best at, ignoring everyone while telling you they are listening time and again. Please Anet, just revert the entire balance update and start again. And actually put some effort into it. 

Probably because it's easier to balance things if they were more homogeneous More cynically speaking, laziness. However, as it turns out, removing diversity.... kills diversity. Less choices meaning more freedom is some serious doublespeak. 😕

Giving your allies +100 stat is very boring. But giving your allies a generic boon that is handed out like candy? Well, I'm sure many people prefer something that actually works, or is not so easily replaceable.

Yes something will always be the best. But when something is never the best, that's not a good thing.

For example, I would like the people in charge to look at this:

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Might

Do you see the myraid of sources of might? Is anyone going to ever be like "Wow, some random stacks of might that is provided by like... everyone! I'm surely going to take that option"

So why does anyone think this is ok?

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Banner_of_Strength

(edit: wait is that ONE stack of pulsing might? Is that a typo?)

I have not 500 hours on warrior yet and I can tell you that is nonsense. Maybe they should play at least as much?

Read the skill description aloud three times. If you can still think that's ok, then you probably think we can fix this by nerfing ele again.

And this is not even the worst one.

Edited July 4, 2022 by ArchonWing.9480

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

2 hours ago, ArchonWing.9480 said:

Probably because it's easier to balance things if they were more homogeneous More cynically speaking, laziness. However, as it turns out, removing diversity.... kills diversity. Less choices meaning more freedom is some serious doublespeak. 😕

Giving your allies +100 stat is very boring. But giving your allies a generic boon that is handed out like candy? Well, I'm sure many people prefer something that actually works, or is not so easily replaceable.

Yes something will always be the best. But when something is never the best, that's not a good thing.

For example, I would like the people in charge to look at this:

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Might

Do you see the myraid of sources of might? Is anyone going to ever be like "Wow, some random stacks of might that is provided by like... everyone! I'm surely going to take that option"

So why does anyone think this is ok?

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Banner_of_Strength

(edit: wait is that ONE stack of pulsing might? Is that a typo?)

I have not 500 hours on warrior yet and I can tell you that is nonsense. Maybe they should play at least as much?

Read the skill description aloud three times. If you can still think that's ok, then you probably think we can fix this by nerfing ele again.

And this is not even the worst one.

BINGO. It is ONE lousy stack of might. Like I said earlier, what they released was the scaffolding of a rework and not an actual rework. It was done by someone who had no clue what they were doing. That and Fury on Discipline is also a wtf kind of moment.

For Great Justice, on a boon duration build is more than capable of upkeeping large amounts of fury and might stacks all by itself. Why would anyone ever take Banner of Strength or Discipline over FGJ? Anet REALLY has a lot of work to do by August 2nd as far as banners go.

[Lighter.5631]

people expected anet to rework banner to something actually interesting to use. (which warrior heavily lacks)

not the same thing but remove the uniqueness to a easily replaceable boon, we expected boon for exchange of a more interesting skill.

but not only they did what we didn't want, but they made it even worse on top.

[Kodama.6453]

5 hours ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

BINGO. It is ONE lousy stack of might. Like I said earlier, what they released was the scaffolding of a rework and not an actual rework. It was done by someone who had no clue what they were doing. That and Fury on Discipline is also a wtf kind of moment.

For Great Justice, on a boon duration build is more than capable of upkeeping large amounts of fury and might stacks all by itself. Why would anyone ever take Banner of Strength or Discipline over FGJ? Anet REALLY has a lot of work to do by August 2nd as far as banners go.

One stack of might is usually not a problem for sources which pulse several times, since these might stacks will rack up over time.

The ridiculous stuff is the very short duration of the might stack on top of a very low pulsing frequence. 5 seconds of might every 3 seconds means that the skill, without boon duration, will just hold up 1,66 stacks of might without boon duration. And with 100% boon duration, banner of strength will keep up 3,33 stacks... Oh, you can also invest into the trait, which means your might stacks go up to 2,5/5!

5 stacks of might, on a skill that does basically nothing else and just if you invest 100% boon duration and a trait. Meanwhile a mechanist has a trait that makes the mech apply might on allies on auto attack, with 1 second icd and a base duration of 10 seconds for might stack. So without any boon duration, the mech can potentially keep up 10 stacks of might on allies. With 100% boon duration, you get 20 stacks of might.

I have no idea how they thought that such a ridiculously low might duration on a 3 second pulsing interval would be ok. Banner of strength is ridiculously bad, even if you heavily invest in it.

[Mungrul.9358]

8 hours ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

For Great Justice, on a boon duration build is more than capable of upkeeping large amounts of fury and might stacks all by itself. Why would anyone ever take Banner of Strength or Discipline over FGJ?

Godsdammit Lan, if ANet see this and nerf FGJ, I'm going to be VERY CROSS with you 🤬

 

(I mean, this is meant in good humour, but at this point in time, I wouldn't be surprised if they did)

[Gorem.8104]

10 hours ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

BINGO. It is ONE lousy stack of might. Like I said earlier, what they released was the scaffolding of a rework and not an actual rework. It was done by someone who had no clue what they were doing. That and Fury on Discipline is also a wtf kind of moment.

For Great Justice, on a boon duration build is more than capable of upkeeping large amounts of fury and might stacks all by itself. Why would anyone ever take Banner of Strength or Discipline over FGJ? Anet REALLY has a lot of work to do by August 2nd as far as banners go.

 

Honestly I've love to meet the intern that managed to get that through the balance pass checks. Probably told Anet, Might has a max stack of one right? It doesn't go higher? and Anet believed him. 

Careful though, knowing Anet they would nerf our shouts to make them more in line with our banners. If they expect our banners to be whats "balanced" then well, our entire kit apparently needs a nerf right?...... 

This exodus from the game is more fun then playing. 

Edited July 5, 2022 by Gorem.8104

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

1 hour ago, Gorem.8104 said:

 

Honestly I've love to meet the intern that managed to get that through the balance pass checks. Probably told Anet, Might has a max stack of one right? It doesn't go higher? and Anet believed him. 

Careful though, knowing Anet they would nerf our shouts to make them more in line with our banners. If they expect our banners to be whats "balanced" then well, our entire kit apparently needs a nerf right?...... 

This exodus from the game is more fun then playing. 

TBH I really think what happened is that someone put the basis of the rework in, made sure that it didn't break anything, then got distracted by an idea of how to make Engineer Rifle better and forgot to come back to finish the banner rework.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

2 hours ago, Mungrul.9358 said:

Godsdammit Lan, if ANet see this and nerf FGJ, I'm going to be VERY CROSS with you 🤬

 

(I mean, this is meant in good humour, but at this point in time, I wouldn't be surprised if they did)

😄 😅

If they did that then you'd know for sure that they hate warrior.

[JTGuevara.9018]

13 hours ago, Kodama.6453 said:

One stack of might is usually not a problem for sources which pulse several times, since these might stacks will rack up over time.

The ridiculous stuff is the very short duration of the might stack on top of a very low pulsing frequence. 5 seconds of might every 3 seconds means that the skill, without boon duration, will just hold up 1,66 stacks of might without boon duration. And with 100% boon duration, banner of strength will keep up 3,33 stacks... Oh, you can also invest into the trait, which means your might stacks go up to 2,5/5!

5 stacks of might, on a skill that does basically nothing else and just if you invest 100% boon duration and a trait. Meanwhile a mechanist has a trait that makes the mech apply might on allies on auto attack, with 1 second icd and a base duration of 10 seconds for might stack. So without any boon duration, the mech can potentially keep up 10 stacks of might on allies. With 100% boon duration, you get 20 stacks of might.

I have no idea how they thought that such a ridiculously low might duration on a 3 second pulsing interval would be ok. Banner of strength is ridiculously bad, even if you heavily invest in it.

I've been saying this since this "rework" came out. Banners that pulse 1 second boons on a 2 second interval with 3 seconds of quickness on a 60 second cooldown. On top of that, the banners contain no skills on the bundle, they don't do anything! Who even suggested and approved this? How the HELL is this any useful? I can't even keep the boons up on myself and yet the game expects me to keep it up on allies. Oh and the cherry on top, you still have to pick up and drop them.

[Aeolus.3615]

1 hour ago, JTGuevara.9018 said:

I've been saying this since this "rework" came out. Banners that pulse 1 second boons on a 2 second interval with 3 seconds of quickness on a 60 second cooldown. On top of that, the banners contain no skills on the bundle, they don't do anything! Who even suggested and approved this? How the HELL is this any useful? I can't even keep the boons up on myself and yet the game expects me to keep it up on allies. Oh and the cherry on top, you still have to pick up and drop them.

that's one of the most weird changes that Anet made to banners,  they should have skills ...for example , banner seams Anet wants players to  play like a paragon but a weaponless one, why not give then skills to the banners???

Banner bash: auto atack deals more x% if target is moving

Cruel banner : inflicts criple condition  if target is not moving.

Chest Thumper: bash banner with rev staff  2 animation on target, KD target, if target gets KD aplyes vulnerability.

hasty Refrain: 2 sec evasion frame with a long range dash, stops boon apliance for the next 4seconds

banner toss: throw your current banner into range like a AOE spear, applies banner affect in zone and does amore damage if targets are moving., targets that are not moving get  KD (this would be dope for elite banner  :O )

Edited July 5, 2022 by Aeolus.3615

[oscuro.9720]

20 hours ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

BINGO. It is ONE lousy stack of might. Like I said earlier, what they released was the scaffolding of a rework and not an actual rework. It was done by someone who had no clue what they were doing. That and Fury on Discipline is also a wtf kind of moment.

For Great Justice, on a boon duration build is more than capable of upkeeping large amounts of fury and might stacks all by itself. Why would anyone ever take Banner of Strength or Discipline over FGJ? Anet REALLY has a lot of work to do by August 2nd as far as banners go.

Well, they will soon after FGJ has its might stacks and duration both halved, and fury duration quartered. Now you’re gonna BEG for those banners. (Actually im pretty sure that FGJ would still be better, which is kind of sad).

[eXruina.4956]

if any of you have used a firebrand, you'd know for a fact, the new banners and quickness they introduced to warrior is a bad joke.

 

in fact even if they gave warrior 100% quickness uptime and 100% boon uptime on banners, it would all still be a bad joke.

 

wouldn't even be remotely close.

[Aeolus.3615]

6 minutes ago, eXruina.4956 said:

if any of you have used a firebrand, you'd know for a fact, the new banners and quickness they introduced to warrior is a bad joke.

 

in fact even if they gave warrior 100% quickness uptime and 100% boon uptime on banners, it would all still be a bad joke.

 

wouldn't even be remotely close.

it would still be the same  as playing herald with facets up for perma boons but w/o weapons 

[Gorem.8104]

On 7/5/2022 at 9:00 PM, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

TBH I really think what happened is that someone put the basis of the rework in, made sure that it didn't break anything, then got distracted by an idea of how to make Engineer Rifle better and forgot to come back to finish the banner rework.

 

So it is now literal, Anet team is actually all cats. It explains a lot!