You're dumbing down the game.

[Fwog.9387]

On 6/30/2022 at 2:26 AM, Hotride.2187 said:

Only a few things to add really:

1. Patches have been low effort for a while now, this is definitely not the first depressing patch. Just look at e.g. the resistance rework.

There are a lot of things in this thread i could respond to but with 5 pages ill choose this one as i feel i can point out where the design philosophy is a problem exactly by using revenant as an example. 

Ignorance is bliss, most people assume in game design that the developers know what they are doing, they see what players are playing and have a good idea what the inner workings and numbers at play are when making a decision to balance an aspect of the game. One would hope when they make a fundamental change to a mechanic of the game, that they took the time to examine what might be impacted afterwards and not simply see it in a vacuum and pull the lever. 

Revenant has a trait line known as Corruption. It is the condition damage tree for revenant and in addition to just increasing corruption damage, it also has traits that interact with conditions. One of its main mechanics used resistance. Revenant had skills that would self-inflict conditions on the user such as 

Replenishing Despair - While maintaining an upkeep skill, your energy pips are increased, but you apply torment to yourself every interval.

This skill would increase how much energy you have to work with but cause you to take damage. A trade off. The resistance in the tree worked as a counter play to this downside before the rework. You would become immune to condition damage while resistance was up. But here is the problem and where i am going with my post...

They did not account for this when they changed resistance. The Resistance no longer synergizes with the corruption tree because they changed it and didn't factor in how that would affect corruption at all. They took a fun game play mechanic interaction away from revenant. I am not arguing that the change was a bad move, simply that they didn't put the effort in to see it to conclusion and now we are left with less than what we had a few years ago. I don't mind tweaking numbers for balance, but tweaking numbers at the cost of fun mechanics is short sided. And its lazy that we still haven't fixed it all this time later. 

[Sugar Min.5834]

This will be my last post in this forum. Nothing good here but news of nerfs after nerfs followed by empty corporate promises. This week, I have already cut down my play time by like 80% and I have been browsing through Steam looking for a less disappointing  game. After PoF, every thing just go South. Don't ask for my stuff, I am not quitting, yet. Will be playing lesser and definitely not a cash customer anymore. BYEEEE

[Cindaria.6379]

On 6/30/2022 at 2:33 PM, Urud.4925 said:

The gameplay is getting more and more reliant on keeping boons up all the time, maxing out minions/bots, remembering to claim the offensive and defensive boons on the map, than... playing skilfully. People are still one shot during meta, because they don't see a dark green pile of junk. Keep providing HP and boons, and people would care about mechanics even less than now.

I wish we sometimes had a buff system like in wow where we can pre buff the whole group (no subgroups needed anymore) and the infight boons are "nice to have" (okay for raiders it means "to keep them up at all costs").

Oh wait, we had a kind of that system but ANet removed it in order to increase diversity. And what is the result now? 🤦‍♀️ Funnily, ANet started that trade-off system with the ele: To serve Alac, the dps ele loose 7% dmg, the heal-alac-tempest loose aura healing, so two builds of the ele got more nerfed 🙄

Edited July 2, 2022 by Cindaria.6379

[taara.3217]

8 hours ago, Asum.4960 said:

The problem now isn't that low effort is becoming viable, it always has been (as it should), it's that high effort and skill is becoming essentially not just unnecessary but invalid due to actually performing worse.

Without high effort and skill your highest achievement will be Mobs Killer King, regardless of spec you play with.

Edited July 2, 2022 by taara.3217

[Cindaria.6379]

Additionally, it was a big mistake to cut boons to 5 people which is only half of the raid. This results that every boon need to be served by two players which take away the place for "less-supporting" class like reaper, ele, and so on. Besides this, infight boons shouldn't have that strong effect that every rotation circles around that boon uptime instead of mechanics. For example: Overloads from ele should be activated when need (water as an emergency heal) or usefull for damage (fire, air, earth) not because of alac running out. Tbh I hate the alac design here.

In total, I liked the system in WoW better, where classes could buff the whole squad in advance. In 25 person raids every class was taken and some "useless" players could be also taken (eg. for trainings) where their missing damage was negligible.

Edited July 2, 2022 by Cindaria.6379

[Ashen.2907]

On 6/30/2022 at 3:58 PM, Vayne.8563 said:

Raising the dead is a profession mechanic, and only the necro can do it, thus, there is still profession identity., Thanks for proving my point. Mesmers have clones and phantasms.  When I play a thief, I certainly feel like a thief.  Facts are not opinions. You stated an opinion and you called it a fact. I disagree and I play just as much as you.

Any class can raise the dead. 

[bruakumfd.4817]

The mechanists actually got nerfed in terms of the mech just now. I was pretty bumbed out since I have some family that likes playing theirs. I can understand it after reading some of these posts because I would think that you can put in the time to reach level 80, you can do the same in mastering an elite spec. I'm worried about Mechanists only groups or how stupidly easy it is use rifles on them, though.

 

That said, I absolutely agree. I fell in love with this game because I had to move. I also liked the appeal of no profession facing a race restriction, even though if doesn't always make sense. And sure, the first one is still relevant because no amount of health is going to matter, if you stand in an AOE.

 

The second thing, however, could easily change, especially since I had so much fun playing a Catalyst only for the hammer to be heavily nerfed. I guess that was supposed to make us use staves since the posts leading up to this explained that underused skills were going to be looking at buffs. It could get worse since this update isn't even over yet, though.

 

That said, I appreciate any posts like this. Not only does it need to be said (nothing improves from silence), I saw another post about a petition for making the warriors strong again. And I think that was only up for 20 minutes at most.

 

 

[bruakumfd.4817]

2 hours ago, Cindaria.6379 said:

I wish we sometimes had a buff system like in wow where we can pre buff the whole group (no subgroups needed anymore) and the infight boons are "nice to have" (okay for raiders it means "to keep them up at all costs").

Oh wait, we had a kind of that system but ANet removed it in order to increase diversity. And what is the result now? 🤦‍♀️ Funnily, ANet started that trade-off system with the ele: To serve Alac, the dps ele loose 7% dmg, the heal-alac-tempest loose aura healing, so two builds of the ele got more nerfed 🙄

This definitely has to be recent because I don't associate Tempests with alacrity. I even went to the wiki, and only one trait has it. Thanks for bringing it up so, I know not to choose that.

[Fwog.9387]

6 minutes ago, bruakumfd.4817 said:

The mechanists actually got nerfed in terms of the mech just now. I was pretty bumbed out since I have some family that likes playing theirs. I can understand it after reading some of these posts because I would think that you can put in the time to reach level 80, you can do the same in mastering an elite spec. I'm worried about Mechanists only groups or how stupidly easy it is use rifles on them, though.

 

 

Mech lost 2k from reduced auto attack damage on power builds and the rifle got its attack speed nerfed (but is still kinda strong in some circumstances, Mela has been using it all morning for harvest temple cm. Likely so he can be aggressive and still move around a bunch. ) from a 3/4 second cast to a full second. 

Once you learn mechanics though mace is the superior weapon. I do need to point that out. Rifle is more a utility pick than a dps pick. 

[Vayne.8563]

3 hours ago, Ashen.2907 said:

Any class can raise the dead. 

We're talking about summoned minions that are made from undead unenergy.

Rangers have pets, who are just tamed animals.  Engineers have constructs.  Only Necromancers can create minions from the dead.

[Ashen.2907]

36 minutes ago, Vayne.8563 said:

We're talking about summoned minions that are made from undead unenergy.

Rangers have pets, who are just tamed animals.  Engineers have constructs.  Only Necromancers can create minions from the dead.

Necros (in GW2 at least) create their minions from thin air, or some background energy not from the dead.

[Vayne.8563]

2 hours ago, Ashen.2907 said:

Necros (in GW2 at least) create their minions from thin air, or some background energy not from the dead.

Necros don't need a corpse to create their minions, but they do in fact create their minions from the dead, specifically the underworld. The profession was linked to Grenth after all. Not needing a corpse as necromancers once did doesn't change the basic idea that necromancer minions, even by the name of the profession come from the dead. But all this is 100% completely besides the point.

 

My point is the identity of the class for many people, including me, isn't based on a comparison of mechanics, but based on flavor. When you look at a necro minion you see a spooky undead looking thing, very different from say a ranger's pet or an engie's turret. The class has a theme and for many, that theme is it's identity. 

You can try saying anyone can raise the dead, but this is just skirting the intent of what I'm saying to try to point out technicality. It's not the conversation we've having.

I'm postulating that some people see their identity in the way skills look and what they're called and skill animations.  Some people are more looking at specific mechanics.  If every class as access to alacrity but that alacrity is provided in a way that suits that class thematically, it's not a problem for me, and probably most players, in my opinion anyway.

On the other hand, if everyone had skills that were undead and corruption and poison, to me that would indicate the same identity even if only one of those classes provided alacrity.

Edited July 2, 2022 by Vayne.8563
spelling

[Kozumi.5816]

23 hours ago, Mil.3562 said:

This will be my last post in this forum. Nothing good here but news of nerfs after nerfs followed by empty corporate promises. This week, I have already cut down my play time by like 80% and I have been browsing through Steam looking for a less disappointing  game. After PoF, every thing just go South. Don't ask for my stuff, I am not quitting, yet. Will be playing lesser and definitely not a cash customer anymore. BYEEEE

Anet has very clearly given up and is now just trying to make money and not make a good unique game with their own vision.

Fractals, dungeons, etc were all COMPLETELY unique to the genre.

Now look at strikes. Four square rooms with 2 difficulties all about playing musical chairs and simon says. EXACTLY like FF14.

Enjoy FF14-lite I guess. If I wanted to play that trash heap of a "game",  I'd go play it.

Edited July 3, 2022 by Kozumi.5816

[IndigoSundown.5419]

On 7/2/2022 at 12:17 AM, Asum.4960 said:

Neither Low Intensity builds doing 1/5 of the damage of meta builds, nor meta builds requiring 50 step rotations has ever been a thing though. 

 

There have been almost purely Auto Attack builds doing ~60-70% of the damage of high-end meta builds since years (which is more than enough to very comfortably clear any content in the game, including Raids). 

Another thing to understand when looking at even these really complex SC rotations is that they are purely maximised for Golem Benchmark DPS - likely not even the players who made those builds and rotations play them exactly like that in practice. 

So many times you can look at these builds and test the rotations and find that not pressing that weapon skill loses you maybe 100 DPS, swapping this active Utility skill out for a passive stat increasing Signet is another 50 DPS lost, etc., and voila, in the end you got half the buttons to press for virtually the same DPS, if not actually more in practice due to being able to focus more on mechanics. 

These rotations are and always have been purely for comparing absolutely maximum theoretical performance, to be used as starting points to understand and adapt to your own needs and capabilities - not to be copied, memorised and followed religiously.

 

High effort and skill gameplay has always been optional in GW2. The problem now isn't that low effort is becoming viable, it always has been (as it should), it's that high effort and skill is becoming essentially not just unnecessary but invalid due to actually performing worse.

This is a fair point, thanks.

[Fwog.9387]

I have only ever taken snowcrows as a rough guide. You learn a good system of priority and it is better than pressing buttons at random. Where to weight certain skills in an order. However if you are just copying snowcrows rotation and memorizing it.. then you haven't actually mastered the build. Things are going to go wrong. Your rotation will get messed up, and by understanding your class mechanics (which you can start to learn when you practice your rotation in actual fights following golem practice) are you able to improvise and get back on track. 

I have always recommended learning parts of your class in pieces rather than just memorize the whole thing at once. That way you understand how it works. Sometimes you might have to omit a skill or two in your rotation because you need them for CC. Or sometimes a skill follows another skill because of an interaction the two have. (shortbow on soulbeast, you deal more condition damage following shortbow 5, so shortbow 5 is higher priority than shortbow 4)

[Josiah.2967]

On 6/30/2022 at 4:00 AM, Hashberry.4510 said:

Is Firebrand brain dead now? 

 

There is a Fire Brand Li build doing 35K DPS...so....yes. Less effort than Reaper and more damage.

[Tammuz.7361]

On 6/30/2022 at 6:14 AM, UmbraNoctis.1907 said:

That's largely because those builds are better, not neccessarily because players enjoy playing those the most.

This.

 

Gave Power mech a try earlier today.

 

Absolutely braindead build where you literally just spam 1 and top the DPS meter… makes me want to take a break from the game if this is going to be the META.

[TheQuickFox.3826]

Well, what might appear as "dumbing down the game" to some allows for "low intensity builds" that enables some players with various handicaps to still enjoy Guild Wars 2.

 

High-intensity builds will always outperform these easy builds, but I think it is good that low intensity builds exist for players that rely on them.

[Barraind.7324]

On 6/30/2022 at 6:07 AM, Ashantara.8731 said:

ANet has completely killed profession identity. That's a fact.

To me, that's the biggest part of dumbing down a game: making everything somehow the same, a weird mishmash of "whatever", because "who cares", right? 🤔

 

Yeah, Its terrible that mesmers dont have clone and phantasm interactions anymore.

 

And that guardians dont just poop boons everywhere.

 

And thiefs dont interact with sneaky and bursty things, or steal stuff.

 

And revenants stopped channeling legends to use their skills.

 

And rangers arent at all dependent on the different types of pets they use.

 

And necros certainly arent using lifeforce to power shrouds. 

 

Engineers clearly dont use gadgets to power their skills, not even a little.

 

And warriors CLEARLY arent raging nonsensically at things. 

 

Its like profession identity is still a thing and you're just making kitten up as you mash your face into your keyboard. 

[Barraind.7324]

.

Edited July 8, 2022 by Barraind.7324