At what point is it elitism vs efficiency?

[Sobx.1758]

3 hours ago, Danikat.8537 said:

I care when I'm in that group. For me this usually came up when I was working on Ad Infinitum and would join daily T1-3 fractal groups, then when we got to 4/5 people, or when someone left and we only had the harder fractals left to do the person who created the LFG listing would go from just saying "dailies" to specifying a profession or build they wanted, and then we're stuck hanging around waiting for the right person to join.

This is why I said in my first post it's important to say what your requirements are right from the start. If the group description had originally said they wanted specific builds or professions I wouldn't have joined (I was doing T1-2, occasionally T3, it's not that difficult), but they changed it after I and the others had joined so we didn't get that choice. We could leave, but that's kind of rude too, and unfair to the other people in the group. (Which is why I'd usually try to persuade them to 'try' it without a perfect group composition, then we'd end up finishing before the 5th person joined.)

If it's a group that's clear about their requirements right from the start then it's fine, no matter what those are. I might think they're excessive (I recently saw a group for Ascalon Catacombs asking for 150 LI) but I can simply ignore that group and join or start another one. But when the requirements change after players have joined it's annoying, even if you're not the one being excluded.

Ok, agreed with what you've said here. (maybe except the part where leaving is somehow rude, but w/e. Granted that in most cases I see someone changing their requirements as the time passes, they're mostly lowering them to fill it faster)

Edited July 4, 2022 by Sobx.1758

[Fueki.4753]

To me, efficiency is how one tries to the best possible one can be and puts in effort to put out the best numerical results possible.

Elitism is when people are trying to block others out of specific content because others don't perform as expected, or because they can't "proof" their capability and only want to play with people that can reach the envisioned threshold of capability.

However, I don't think Elitism automatically is toxic. I think it's fine for people to only want top people in their groups, as long as they don't publicly express that they see themselves as something better or look down on the ways other people enjoy play.

Edited July 4, 2022 by Fueki.4753

[Linken.6345]

6 hours ago, Rhingeim.3974 said:

It becomes toxic if team members are jerks. 

It's ok to not know mechanics, everyone deserve their first chance and content try

It's not OK if:

1) people strat blaming each other or ignoring chatting about how to do this or that

2) people ignore each other, for example running towards the boss while someone left behind in insta-cc mobs. 

3) it's not ok insta-kick people without small chat if their builds are strange

Then do so in chill all or welcome groups mate.

[Ashen.2907]

20 hours ago, Lithril Ashwalker.6230 said:

At what point does wanting an efficient team become a toxic elitist team? To me arc dps can be both a benefit and a curse. You can hone your skills and find better rotations to increase your dps, but then again you can be called out for not contributing enough which makes the game a chore

There is nothing wrong with wanting to play the game with people who share your playstyle. There is no more wrong with enjoying pushing the limits of efficiency and completing an instance in as little time as possible than there is in enjoying a slow casual run through that instance while playing your favorite themed build. The only issue is when people who enjoy playing in such radically different ways group together.

If you want a casual run do not join groups advertised otherwise. If you enjoy a fast meta run do not join groups advertised otherwise. Always advertise what kind of group you are forming. The only toxicity is when someone joins a group that does not match their preferences and expects the other 4 or 9 players to change to cater to them.

[mythical.6315]

9 hours ago, Dante.1508 said:

When you try to enforce your efficiency opinions on others it becomes elitism..

And what do you call it when you try to dictate how others play and criticize those who don’t play like you?

[Ashen.2907]

16 hours ago, Danikat.8537 said:

if your desire is to get through something quickly then spending longer waiting for your ideal group composition than you'd spend doing it with a less efficent group is counterproductive.

It generally isn't about just speed, obviously, in such cases. It is about the experience of playing the content in a manner one desires.

[Gajex.2386]

Player A joins T4 fractal group as last DPS.

Player A spends the entire time explaining everything in a very belittling way, falling way behind in his own performance.

When pointed out that "we are all experienced players", Player A draws attention to his Fractal God title.

Player A has, quote, "the most experience so shut up".

 

That is elitism, neglecting efficiency as well as group morale to proclaim himself the superior.

[Zohane.7208]

1 hour ago, Gajex.2386 said:

Player A joins T4 fractal group as last DPS.

Player A spends the entire time explaining everything in a very belittling way, falling way behind in his own performance.

When pointed out that "we are all experienced players", Player A draws attention to his Fractal God title.

Player A has, quote, "the most experience so shut up".

 

That is elitism, neglecting efficiency as well as group morale to proclaim himself the superior.

Wow, just wow. I would have either voted for a kick of player A, or left the group myself. That's just beyond ridicilous.

I, personally, wouldn't neccessarily call it elitism, though - but it's certainly toxic, times 100.

[Silent.6137]

2 hours ago, Zohane.7208 said:

I, personally, wouldn't neccessarily call it elitism, though - but it's certainly toxic, times 100.

That's not elitism. It is narcissism with egotism dialed up way high.

[Krzysztof.5973]

3 hours ago, Gajex.2386 said:

Player A joins T4 fractal group as last DPS.

Player A spends the entire time explaining everything in a very belittling way, falling way behind in his own performance.

When pointed out that "we are all experienced players", Player A draws attention to his Fractal God title.

Player A has, quote, "the most experience so shut up".

 

That is elitism, neglecting efficiency as well as group morale to proclaim himself the superior.

Let's explore opposite scenario:

Player A joins T4 fractal group as last DPS.

Player A underperforms, doing near-haeler damage.

When pointed out, tells everybody to shut up and calling them toxic elitists.

Player A has an attitude "It's just T4s" and continues to hinders groups' performance. 

[Labjax.2465]

2 hours ago, Krzysztof.5973 said:

Let's explore opposite scenario:

Player A joins T4 fractal group as last DPS.

Player A underperforms, doing near-haeler damage.

When pointed out, tells everybody to shut up and calling them toxic elitists.

Player A has an attitude "It's just T4s" and continues to hinders groups' performance. 

Two questions: has this really happened to you or just a hypothetical? If it has, in what way is it "pointed out"?

[Krzysztof.5973]

1 hour ago, Labjax.2465 said:

Two questions: has this really happened to you or just a hypothetical? If it has, in what way is it "pointed out"?

I came across this type of people multiple times since first fractal cms. I brought it up to reflect upon it. In my experience, this happens more than "elitism" we discuss over here. When we talk about the issue, it's important to be able to understand where those "elitists" are coming from. If you cannot understand the perspective of the other side, you contribute to making things worse for everybody. 

Edited July 5, 2022 by Krzysztof.5973

[Labjax.2465]

4 minutes ago, Krzysztof.5973 said:

I came across this type of people multiple times since first fractal cms. I brought it up to reflect upon it. In my experience, this happens more than "elitism" we discuss over here. When we talk about the issue, it's important to be able to understand where those "elitists" are coming from. If you cannot understand the perspective of the other side, you contribute to make things worse for everybody. 

Yeah I mean it's worth bringing up. I'm just wondering how it was pointed out to the player because there's more than one way to approach that, ranging from, like... "hey, your DPS is kinda low, can I give you some build tips" to "you are deadweight and the healer is doing more."

I don't get putting elitism in quotes though, elitism is definitely real. It's just apparently the case that to some extent, people take it in the complete other direction.

[AliamRationem.5172]

2 hours ago, Labjax.2465 said:

Two questions: has this really happened to you or just a hypothetical? If it has, in what way is it "pointed out"?

In my experience, both types of behavior are rare.  But you also have to keep in mind that this type of player joins groups expecting nobody to say anything about their performance.  They are either oblivious to their low performance or hoping that nobody notices or cares.  It's only in the event that somebody makes an issue of it that the claws come out because you're toxic elitist swine for making them feel inadequate.

On the other hand, players who pride themselves on their own performance tend not to mask their intentions.  They self-segregate by explicitly stating their expectations in group listings.  However, every once in awhile you will encounter that special kind of player who joins random pickups expecting speed run material and flips out on people as if they have a right to call the shots by virtue of their stellar performance in a video game.

I think the toxic casuals fly under the radar more often than not because most people don't care to make an issue of it.  I'd personally rather just find another group than kick someone for poor performance.  But at the same time, I'd kick myself out of a group before causing problems for the other players present.  On either side of that coin it's just about respecting other players and, in my opinion, being passive about it doesn't make a person any better than those who are more overt with their toxicity.

[Labjax.2465]

3 minutes ago, AliamRationem.5172 said:

In my experience, both types of behavior are rare.  But you also have to keep in mind that this type of player joins groups expecting nobody to say anything about their performance.  They are either oblivious to their low performance or hoping that nobody notices or cares.  It's only in the event that somebody makes an issue of it that the claws come out because you're toxic elitist swine for making them feel inadequate.

On the other hand, players who pride themselves on their own performance tend not to mask their intentions.  They self-segregate by explicitly stating their expectations in group listings.  However, every once in awhile you will encounter that special kind of player who joins random pickups expecting speed run material and flips out on people as if they have a right to call the shots by virtue of their stellar performance in a video game.

I think the toxic casuals fly under the radar more often than not because most people don't care to make an issue of it.  I'd personally rather just find another group than kick someone for poor performance.  But at the same time, I'd kick myself out of a group before causing problems for the other players present.  On either side of that coin it's just about respecting other players and, in my opinion, being passive about it doesn't make a person any better than those who are more overt with their toxicity.

The last part about them flying under the radar I think is just speculation on your part. I see no reason to think that people who flip out when someone says their DPS is low are any more common than people who flip out because someone's DPS is low. In fact, to a degree, it can be hard to tell who is setting off who, which is why I asked the other person about how it was presented. Being defensive about your performance doesn't intrinsically mean you have this preoccupied worldview that you should be able to play however you want and others should have to put up with it. And to be fair, conversely, bringing up another player's performance doesn't intrinsically mean you have a preoccupied worldview that some players are lesser and need to get in line or get out.

I do agree that respecting other players is important. The thing that gets me is there's this whole bludgeoning, messy narrative that gets pasted over just about every game with difficult PvE, where you are either casual or hardcore and if you are a hardcore bringing this up, the narrative is "casuals bad" and if you are a casual bringing this up, the narrative is "hardcores elitist," and there's some minimal truth to both, but mostly it's a bunch of reductive hogwash.

To try to put it in perspective, in terms of how seriously I take my own contribution, I'd probably fit more in the hardcore box in this game. But if you compared me to the skill of some of the top players, I'm probably not even close. I've never raided in this game and only done a few strikes with loose groups. And when it comes to my expectations toward other players, I generally don't care much. But if I was raiding weekly, maybe my tune would change some. So I guess what I'm trying to get at is that one of the missing dimensions to this kind of conversation is the environment in which you play.

Nobody is gonna notice if you do a raid rotation or 1k dps on AB Octo, but they're going to notice if a strike boss is taking twice as long to kill. Nobody is gonna care if you get downed repeatedly and die on AB Octo, but they're going to notice if you keep dying on a strike boss and being unable to contribute further on that pull.

The environment may color the attitude more than the player's general mindset about games does and I feel like I'm opening a can of worms here, but I think it relates to a lot of general philosophy about game design as it pertains to fail states. Instanced PvE content in this game, like many games, is pretty harsh about screwups. Banging your head against a boss and getting nothing, not even a win, much less the game's rewards, is a rough feeling. So the game creates an environment that is harsh on failure and then somehow we're supposed to overcome that and be nice to each other. It's not always easy. I can see that from my own experience with raiding in another game.

[firedragon.8953]

On 7/4/2022 at 3:32 AM, Lithril Ashwalker.6230 said:

At what point does wanting an efficient team become a toxic elitist team?

When the team is willing to spend 10 minutes searching for a new member after kicking someone who makes their run 2 minutes longer.

Edited July 5, 2022 by firedragon.8953

[Lithril Ashwalker.6230]

Appreciate the responses as I have yet to get involved in a raiding guild to actually set forth to do so. Just wanna get a basic idea as mist toxicity and elitism ive come across are those demanding builds with unrealistic expectations like snowcrows. People think everyone can pull off perfect rotations from snowcrows site because they pull them off the said site and end up doing like 5k less dps. I dont agree with outside sources setting metas, never have and this is where i think ill run into the elitism. 

 

I mean if it gets the job done im all for full thief memes in raids or strikes so lol. Just wanted a basic idea. Can mostly avoid toxicity if i end up calling the shots anyway i suppose

[Fueki.4753]

20 minutes ago, Lithril Ashwalker.6230 said:

Appreciate the responses as I have yet to get involved in a raiding guild to actually set forth to do so. Just wanna get a basic idea as mist toxicity and elitism ive come across are those demanding builds with unrealistic expectations like snowcrows. People think everyone can pull off perfect rotations from snowcrows site because they pull them off the said site and end up doing like 5k less dps. I dont agree with outside sources setting metas, never have and this is where i think ill run into the elitism.

Take note that you don't actually want to join groups that demand Snowcrows builds. As far as I am aware, Snowcrows is a speed clearing guild, not a regular raiding guild.

If you want to use their builds, it is the best to only use them as a basic idea for a build and personalize by changing a few traits here and there or swapping the weapon sigils to ones you have better results with. While this may give a lower numerical output on paper, more personalized builds can have a better real result due to personal quirks that result in a gameplay difference.

Edited July 5, 2022 by Fueki.4753

[Gajex.2386]

12 hours ago, AliamRationem.5172 said:

I think the toxic casuals fly under the radar more often than not because most people don't care to make an issue of it.

You never were to the GW2 subreddit. Best way to get likes there is to kitten on casuals, even if you have to make a story up 🤭

 

51 minutes ago, Lithril Ashwalker.6230 said:

Appreciate the responses as I have yet to get involved in a raiding guild to actually set forth to do so.

That's the best you can do to get into raiding. Searching suitable pug squads for the respective skill level does work, but usually takes at least an hour of searching and they tend to fall apart at the very first issue.

And, added benefit, guild groups are usually much, much more relaxed. So long as you pull your weight and learn if necessary, you should find plenty.

[Cyninja.2954]

1 hour ago, Lithril Ashwalker.6230 said:

Appreciate the responses as I have yet to get involved in a raiding guild to actually set forth to do so. Just wanna get a basic idea as mist toxicity and elitism ive come across are those demanding builds with unrealistic expectations like snowcrows. People think everyone can pull off perfect rotations from snowcrows site because they pull them off the said site and end up doing like 5k less dps. I dont agree with outside sources setting metas, never have and this is where i think ill run into the elitism. 

Do you have an actual example of someone expecting this though?

Dig deep and please think about this, have you ACTUALLY met anyone who EXPECTED for you to bring:

1. a very specific build

2. bring top tier performance on the aforementioned build

3. criticized your personal build even though you provided what was expected from the group (aka bring dps as dps, bring boons as boon support, etc).

Or is this rather:

1. you are ASSUMING others will expect you to bring a specific build

2. you are assuming that top tier performance is expected

3. you are assuming your personal build provided what you are joining for, when it actually didn't

I mean we get that the forums are full of players who run their own great builds, know exactly what they are doing and can meet any and all requirements that are set. Only to realize that a vast majority of players are in fact clueless as to this games build system once in game.

Performance is NOT in fact required on the level of snowcrows perfect rotations for nearly any content (besides some very challenge modes). The only players making that claim are those here who want to discredit using 3rd party information to improve. Some players take offense when others who are more knowledgeable give advice on how they can improve their build to actually meet minimum performance standards or even just make sense.

Personally I wish more players would do their own testing. Do their own work and design when it comes to builds. It would be such a great addition to this games build pool and knowlegebase, even if some might come to similar conclusions. Alas, most players are just to lazy to do so themselves.

Quote

 

I mean if it gets the job done im all for full thief memes in raids or strikes so lol. Just wanted a basic idea. Can mostly avoid toxicity if i end up calling the shots anyway i suppose

Even full thief meme raids or any meme raids require some sort of reasonable build composition. In general this means having proper boon coverage of all essential boons, proper utility skills for certain encounters and some amount of damage and healing to get through the fight all the while having players who can some what play the class.

The weaker the builds and synergy, the more you will rely on player skill to cover for those lacking aspects. That and find enough like minded players who are willing to fight that uphill battle.

Edited July 5, 2022 by Cyninja.2954

[firedragon.8953]

39 minutes ago, Lithril Ashwalker.6230 said:

...toxicity and elitism ive come across are those demanding builds with unrealistic expectations like snowcrows. People think everyone can pull off perfect rotations from snowcrows site because they pull them off the said site and end up doing like 5k less dps. I dont agree with outside sources setting metas, never have and this is where i think ill run into the elitism. 

I want to elaborate a bit more in response to your comment and give a "long answer" since this response seems to go beyond "elitism vs. efficiency". Snowcrows is just a pre-built template (and guide). If you can pull off decent DPS and pull your own weight in the group, I don't think anyone in a normal group will care if your build/profession is in the meta. If you decide to roll up and only bench 10k dps on the golem or have crazy high toughness but don't want to (or shouldn't) be the tank, well then yeah...the toxic one would end up being you. (I don't mean "you" as in you, Lithril, I don't want you to think I am insinuating you do this in any way, I mean "you" as in anyone who does this.)

Toxic elitism is not only from people that expect big dps numbers and flawless play. It can also come from the other side of the community that take a "do what I want" attitude to an extreme while inviting themselves to group content. In this case these players have a type of elitism known as "entitlement," thinking that their way "must be right." I've come across both in end game content, and both are equally as annoying because they make encounters unfun. Both are toxic and elitists. 

If a group openly states KP or specific builds in lfg, honestly I don't think this is elitist or even toxic. This is just openly setting expectations. If you do not meet those expectations, you should just move on. Personally I almost never choose to join these groups (just my preference, and also I throw all my KP into my guild's decoration vault, lol). If you want to set your own expectations, then get a tag and command your group with your rules. 

I think the difficulty many face when discussing elitism which is associated with toxic behavior is, what does it mean to be toxic?
Here's my take.
Toxicity in any community is the lack of respect for the other player and often times exchanges understanding for insults or complete dismissive attitudes towards someone's ideas and ideals. For example, I think it is completely fine to kick someone from a PUG group if they are constantly causing wipes and wasting everyone's time. It should be done nicely and respectfully, remembering the human behind the avatar, but this often arises because expectations were misaligned at the start. On the other hand, players that rage at people because they were kicked, or players that yell "elitist scum" or something because they do not meet the group's expectations are also they themselves elitists by thinking "they are in the right." Of course personal and demeaning insults are the very foundation that toxicity grows, and usually a sure-fire way to know you just fished up a big mess of  "fun".

[Gajex.2386]

5 minutes ago, firedragon.8953 said:

I want to elaborate a bit more in response to your comment and give a "long answer" since this response seems to go beyond "elitism vs. efficiency". Snowcrows is just a pre-built template (and guide). If you can pull off decent DPS and pull your own weight in the group, I don't think anyone in a normal group will care if your build/profession is in the meta. If you decide to roll up and only bench 10k dps on the golem or have crazy high toughness but don't want to (or shouldn't) be the tank, well then yeah...the toxic one would end up being you. (I don't mean "you" as in you, Lithril, I don't want you to think I am insinuating you do this in any way, I mean "you" as in anyone who does this.)

Toxic elitism is not only from people that expect big dps numbers and flawless play. It can also come from the other side of the community that take a "do what I want" attitude to an extreme while inviting themselves to group content. In this case these players have a type of elitism known as "entitlement," thinking that their way "must be right." I've come across both in end game content, and both are equally as annoying because they make encounters unfun. Both are toxic and elitists. 

If a group openly states KP or specific builds in lfg, honestly I don't think this is elitist or even toxic. This is just openly setting expectations. If you do not meet those expectations, you should just move on. Personally I almost never choose to join these groups (just my preference, and also I throw all my KP into my guild's decoration vault, lol). If you want to set your own expectations, then get a tag and command your group with your rules. 

I think the difficulty many face when discussing elitism which is associated with toxic behavior is, what does it mean to be toxic?
Here's my take.
Toxicity in any community is the lack of respect for the other player and often times exchanges understanding for insults or complete dismissive attitudes towards someone's ideas and ideals. For example, I think it is completely fine to kick someone from a PUG group if they are constantly causing wipes and wasting everyone's time. It should be done nicely and respectfully, remembering the human behind the avatar, but this often arises because expectations were misaligned at the start. On the other hand, players that rage at people because they were kicked, or players that yell "elitist scum" or something because they do not meet the group's expectations are also they themselves elitists by thinking "they are in the right." Of course personal and demeaning insults are the very foundation that toxicity grows, and usually a sure-fire way to know you just fished up a big mess of  "fun".

Man, you restore my dwindling hope for this community. Best statement so far!

[Lithril Ashwalker.6230]

34 minutes ago, firedragon.8953 said:

I want to elaborate a bit more in response to your comment and give a "long answer" since this response seems to go beyond "elitism vs. efficiency". Snowcrows is just a pre-built template (and guide). If you can pull off decent DPS and pull your own weight in the group, I don't think anyone in a normal group will care if your build/profession is in the meta. If you decide to roll up and only bench 10k dps on the golem or have crazy high toughness but don't want to (or shouldn't) be the tank, well then yeah...the toxic one would end up being you. (I don't mean "you" as in you, Lithril, I don't want you to think I am insinuating you do this in any way, I mean "you" as in anyone who does this.)

Toxic elitism is not only from people that expect big dps numbers and flawless play. It can also come from the other side of the community that take a "do what I want" attitude to an extreme while inviting themselves to group content. In this case these players have a type of elitism known as "entitlement," thinking that their way "must be right." I've come across both in end game content, and both are equally as annoying because they make encounters unfun. Both are toxic and elitists. 

If a group openly states KP or specific builds in lfg, honestly I don't think this is elitist or even toxic. This is just openly setting expectations. If you do not meet those expectations, you should just move on. Personally I almost never choose to join these groups (just my preference, and also I throw all my KP into my guild's decoration vault, lol). If you want to set your own expectations, then get a tag and command your group with your rules. 

I think the difficulty many face when discussing elitism which is associated with toxic behavior is, what does it mean to be toxic?
Here's my take.
Toxicity in any community is the lack of respect for the other player and often times exchanges understanding for insults or complete dismissive attitudes towards someone's ideas and ideals. For example, I think it is completely fine to kick someone from a PUG group if they are constantly causing wipes and wasting everyone's time. It should be done nicely and respectfully, remembering the human behind the avatar, but this often arises because expectations were misaligned at the start. On the other hand, players that rage at people because they were kicked, or players that yell "elitist scum" or something because they do not meet the group's expectations are also they themselves elitists by thinking "they are in the right." Of course personal and demeaning insults are the very foundation that toxicity grows, and usually a sure-fire way to know you just fished up a big mess of  "fun".

Much respect and understanding here.  Im not the best player by any means, but when i get into a group wothin reason i let em know, dont expect much other than what i state, if they get pissy because my dps is low on a healspec/alacspec then its on them. Less stressful roles are mostly.ideal for me but when i can get those emergency revives with siphon, mouths drop at the speed, when i mess up, i admit ignorance or a screw up. In the end as long as i communicate its all well. Trying to go into a group or form one and have this Hockey team mentality: when the team wins everyone wins, not just 1 guy, when 1 guy messes up 1 guy forces hinself all the blame...its rough but i try to not be repugnant, always open to new methods.

 

I suppose over the years of owning the game ive become jaded with condi dps or pdps builds and had more enjoyment as support

[Lithril Ashwalker.6230]

49 minutes ago, Cyninja.2954 said:

Do you have an actual example of someone expecting this though?

Dig deep and please think about this, have you ACTUALLY met anyone who EXPECTED for you to bring:

1. a very specific build

2. bring top tier performance on the aforementioned build

3. criticized your personal build even though you provided what was expected from the group (aka bring dps as dps, bring boons as boon support, etc).

Or is this rather:

1. you are ASSUMING others will expect you to bring a specific build

2. you are assuming that top tier performance is expected

3. you are assuming your personal build provided what you are joining for, when it actually didn't

I mean we get that the forums are full of players who run their own great builds, know exactly what they are doing and can meet any and all requirements that are set. Only to realize that a vast majority of players are in fact clueless as to this games build system once in game.

Performance is NOT in fact required on the level of snowcrows perfect rotations for nearly any content (besides some very challenge modes). The only players making that claim are those here who want to discredit using 3rd party information to improve. Some players take offense when others who are more knowledgeable give advice on how they can improve their build to actually meet minimum performance standards or even just make sense.

Personally I wish more players would do their own testing. Do their own work and design when it comes to builds. It would be such a great addition to this games build pool and knowlegebase, even if some might come to similar conclusions. Alas, most players are just to lazy to do so themselves.

Even full thief meme raids or any meme raids require some sort of reasonable build composition. In general this means having proper boon coverage of all essential boons, proper utility skills for certain encounters and some amount of damage and healing to get through the fight all the while having players who can some what play the class.

The weaker the builds and synergy, the more you will rely on player skill to cover for those lacking aspects. That and find enough like minded players who are willing to fight that uphill battle.

I have actually now that i think of it, its mostly.in pug raids, they ask for a role i fulfilled, someone else couldnt swap so i took 1 for the team and rerolled to a class i dislike, though had geared, and ended up falling short. In the end i got the game to play roles, builds and classes i like, not to bend to someone elses expectations for happiness. 

 

If i can do a role on 1 class just as efficiently as another id prefer that or just let em know im out. That last group years ago in pug Dhuum got frustrating because i was outta the normal class. I dont like alting because i got the game for enjoyment.  Instead of bending to other i want to break expectations and meme things up best way possible within reason. If it gets the job done or is cheesy composition and people.can have a laugh, ill do it. Right now, since most core nonboon buffs are being reworked its a prime opportunity to push the limits.

 

Take Snebzor, wonderful dude...doing all guardian runs in raids and strikes and other content. Woth the mentality of "who can?" To "who can't?" Im very eager to push those boundaries. 

 

Yeah...i try to not oug anymore unless its for memes. Just because it can be done. Trying to ignite the fun challenge factor again

 

 

[Sobx.1758]

4 hours ago, Gajex.2386 said:

You never were to the GW2 subreddit. Best way to get likes there is to kitten on casuals, even if you have to make a story up 🤭

On the other hand, people on this forum often complain about "bad elitists" while never participating in raids in the first place, so they either blindly repeat what other people say or just... make their stories up. Latest one I've seen: someone got kicked for the way they reskinned their headgear 🙄 (to make it even better, it's a person that says he's new to raids and only plays in training squads).

5 hours ago, Lithril Ashwalker.6230 said:

Just wanna get a basic idea as mist toxicity and elitism ive come across are those demanding builds with unrealistic expectations like snowcrows. People think everyone can pull off perfect rotations from snowcrows site because they pull them off the said site and end up doing like 5k less dps.

No worries, majority of people do not think that nor they require it. In fact, for the most part it's one of those things repeated by people that are scared of joining any squad in the first place, since while some people can aim at the top tier dps, most/all of them are either in their own static groups or make it completely obvious in the squad description.

Basically the easiest -but not foolproof, sure- way to avoid toxicity is being upfront with your expectations. Specify what you're looking for in the squad's lfg description or join the squads that match your goals and most of the time everyone's happy.

Edited July 5, 2022 by Sobx.1758
I can't spell