bro pvp sucks lmfao

[UNOwen.7132]

3 hours ago, Ragnar.4257 said:

@UNOwen.7132 @Hotride.2187

And yet look at all the people liking OP's post.

I'm not arguing who's right and who's wrong here, I'm just pointing out that if you only read the PvP forum you'd think 95% of the community were all of the same opinion, when that's not reality, that's just down to the fact that its the same 20 people who reside permanently here.

Some people want a game where fights last 10-20 seconds where its all about twitch reactions and split-second timed combos. Other people want fights that last 4-5 minutes where it's about careful resource management and positioning.

How many people liked it because they agreed with the underlying premise, PvP sucks, but didnt read closely enough to see why? Thats part of it. But sure, again, its not unanimous, but we do know that the people who liked the 2020 patch and want less damage are a tiny minority, catering to which already put the gamemode on its death knell. We should ignore them, revert the garbage patch, and try and get back the majority that left.

[oscuro.9720]

On 7/6/2022 at 7:50 PM, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

Its so weird to have been here for the patch that sucked out a significant portion of damage in the game, see people quit over that, then one expac and a couple months later see people saying "There's too much damage" again.

People are not good at identifying the actual problems they are experiencing, so just complain about the most surface level, and readily observable phenomena. 

[Ragnar.4257]

19 minutes ago, UNOwen.7132 said:

How many people liked it because they agreed with the underlying premise, PvP sucks, but didnt read closely enough to see why? Thats part of it. But sure, again, its not unanimous, but we do know that the people who liked the 2020 patch and want less damage are a tiny minority, catering to which already put the gamemode on its death knell. We should ignore them, revert the garbage patch, and try and get back the majority that left.

Do we know that? Or do you feel like you know it?

As you just said here, people will agree with literally any statement that is prefixed with "pvp sucks".

"pvp sucks, too much damage"

"pvp sucks, not enough damage"

Both of these statements will get lots of likes and nods of agreement. Because grabbing a torch and pitchfork is much more fun than a sober analysis of a complex issue.

Edited July 8, 2022 by Ragnar.4257

[Swagg.9236]

1 hour ago, lightstalker.1498 said:

the whole game sucks.

I kind of forget the rest of the game exists lol.  You're not wrong.

[Multicolorhipster.9751]

4 hours ago, Ragnar.4257 said:

@UNOwen.7132 @Hotride.2187

And yet look at all the people liking OP's post.

Yeah, the post about PvP sucking. l0l

Feb 2020 patch enjoyer or no, anyone could arrive at the conclusion.

11 hours ago, Ragnar.4257 said:

EoD didn't introduce significantly more damage, its mostly the same as pre-EoD.

I disagree with this completely.

Pre-EoD PvP was an actual slogfest. Current-day PvP has things that actually do damage, provided you play new or reworked content and avoid everything that was 'balanced' pre-EoD and then forgotten about.

11 hours ago, Ragnar.4257 said:

It's just that this insular echo-chamber community decided that the 2020 patch was ' universally bad' and made 'bunker meta' and assumed that that was a universally agreed take, when in reality there are still alot of players, particularly newer players, who still think that damage is too high and gameplay is too fast and spammy. They just aren't part of the clique of ~20 players who post 90% of the stuff on the pvp forum.

This forum thinks that "game needs more damage" and "gameplay way too slow" and "rEvErT 2o20 pAtCh" are universally agreed takes, but as this thread shows that's not actually everyone's view.

Over that poopoo patch, it's old news. Its being dismantled anyway. Just look at the recent 28th patch. A lot of that was literally just undoing parts of the 2020 patch.

Call us an echo-chamber community  all you want, but bruh. The game is literally shadow balanced from a private discord filled only with the gw2 elite, where some of them have even been wronged for things like boosting and match manipulation in PvP before.

Not only that, but they never even listened to our concerns with the 2020 patch to begin with. Incase you didn't notice, it stayed, you won. Congratulations balance enthusiasts, enjoy your DotA. 🥂

 

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

10 minutes ago, Multicolorhipster.9751 said:

Not only that, but they never even listened to our concerns with the 2020 patch to begin with.

 

This bears repeating. A good portion of us were like "good/tolerable foundation but you have to do follow up patches/finish the things you set to 300sec cd or to 0.001 coefficient, followed by "wups we dont care shipping EoD all hands"

 

1 hour ago, Ragnar.4257 said:

Because grabbing a torch and pitchfork is much more fun than a sober analysis of a complex issue.

 

Sober analysis of this issue, in my mains case, led to warrior losing a significant portion of its damage, the revelation that balancing is [redacted due to censorship] don't even have a cursory knowledge of the classes, the original patch not fixing the majority of the skills it set to 300 second cd or offering alternatives to the playstyle that decision butchered, and balancing suggestions being largely ignored or implemented on classes that were not the classes they were suggested for. 

 

Sober analysis of a complex issue led to the torches and pitchforks. That decision wasn't reached in spite of it. 

Edited July 8, 2022 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[Psycoprophet.8107]

I didn't used to 😞

[Bast.7253]

Even if they scale back the "power creep" it will only be for the things that don't actually need it. 

They'll keep overloading certain classes with things that would be "game-breaking" on other professions. 

I mean we went from holosmith that spams for ez nuke damage to... an ai pet that fights for you. 

We went from scourge shades that required people to stand in them to get feared or stack torment/burning to... 
A rapid fire 20 stack torment, burn, poison with a shroud that regenerates health, dazes, and has a built in gravity well. 

Play what they want you to play, bruh, or don't log in.

[Ragnar.4257]

1 hour ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

 

This bears repeating. A good portion of us were like "good/tolerable foundation but you have to do follow up patches/finish the things you set to 300sec cd or to 0.001 coefficient, followed by "wups we dont care shipping EoD all hands"

 

You think this is the same view as the "revert Feb 2020" brigade? A viewpoint of "yeah, some of it was the right direction, but some of it needs fixing or finishing or re-doing" is what I would call a sober analysis of a complex issue. "drrrrrr worst patch ever, garbage in every single way" is not the same as this.

@Multicolorhipster.9751I don't know how you've concluded that I'm a "Feb 2020 patch enjoyer" when all I've done here is pointed out that the consensus isn't as clear-cut as you think. 

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

47 minutes ago, Ragnar.4257 said:

. "drrrrrr worst patch ever, garbage in every single way" is not the same as this.

That wasn't everyone though, and probably not enough to attribute that desire to the majority of people.

 I saw a couple "Revert patch brrrrr" posts, but a lot of them also came paired with suggestions on what needed to be done next or approached it with some rationality, or it was obvious that they were extremely shafted by the patch changes and wanted that fixed (i.e. any warrior)

 

There was even a poll. Most people were nuanced about this, to which Anet responded by ignoring everything (hyperbole).  Hence, the pitchforks. 

Edited July 9, 2022 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[Multicolorhipster.9751]

22 minutes ago, Ragnar.4257 said:

I don't know how you've concluded that I'm a "Feb 2020 patch enjoyer" 

I didn't even call you that, that's how you know its true. 

2 hours ago, Multicolorhipster.9751 said:

Yeah, the post about PvP sucking. l0l

Feb 2020 patch enjoyer or no, anyone could arrive at the conclusion.

Bust out the sparkling water and get ready to party no later than 9PM, we've got a Feb 2020 patch enjoyer ⚠️

30 minutes ago, Ragnar.4257 said:

when all I've done here is pointed out that the consensus isn't as clear-cut as you think. 

Well aware of that. Like I said, in the end it was the other side that got listened to after all.

You're speaking on behalf of  "~20 people" as you put it. I can only speak for myself, but I never paid any heed to the census. I wouldn't care if I was alone in disliking the patch, i'm still going to dislike it and call it the worst patch in PvP's history because that's just how I feel about it in general and without going into detail.

If you enjoyed the patch, that's good. That's great for you.  You don't need to worry about the people who dislike it, because history has shown our benefactors are already ignoring us blissfully.

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

52 minutes ago, Ragnar.4257 said:

 

@Multicolorhipster.9751I don't know how you've concluded that I'm a "Feb 2020 patch enjoyer" when all I've done here is pointed out that the consensus isn't as clear-cut as you think. 

 

If Ragnar's opinion hasnt changed then this tracks:

 

Quote

Conceptually, the Feb2020 patch was a step in the right direction. The state of the game in 2019 was far too spammy, and gameplay involved either being permanently invulnerable or being dead, with nothing inbetween. So a 30% trim across the board to damage, boons, healing, cooldowns, cc, was fine as a first step.

The problem was that this should have been the first step, with a series of follow-up steps to fix the problem-items which would inevitably emerge from such a shake-up, and that never properly happened.

Perfect example being the 300s traits. The passive-save traits were bad for PvP, and it was right to look to remove/re-work them. As a temporary fix, setting them to 300s would have been acceptable as a placeholder until a proper rework could be implemented in a few weeks/months. But, of course, that never happened, and here we are more than 2 years later with no re-work even in sight. 

Your position is that the concept was wrong. My position is that the concept was fine, just the execution scuffed.

 

Ragnar, I'd assert most people to some extent feel like that ^ with either more or less negativity based on how much it scuffed their main. It's just the negative people really needed a win, waited for all of EoD to ship, then were squarely met with "Actually we don't [redacted due to censorship] doing.

So....yknow, pitchforks. .

Edited July 9, 2022 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[UNOwen.7132]

17 hours ago, Ragnar.4257 said:

Do we know that? Or do you feel like you know it?

As you just said here, people will agree with literally any statement that is prefixed with "pvp sucks".

"pvp sucks, too much damage"

"pvp sucks, not enough damage"

Both of these statements will get lots of likes and nods of agreement. Because grabbing a torch and pitchfork is much more fun than a sober analysis of a complex issue.

Given that the people left are a much smaller group than the people who quit the game because of the 2020 patch, yes. We do know that theyre a tiny minority. Especially because even of the people left, a good chunk if not the majority hate the 2020 patch.

Edited July 9, 2022 by UNOwen.7132

[Axelteas.7192]

harbinger killed pvp seriously

[Kozumi.5816]

On 7/6/2022 at 8:30 PM, Eddie.9143 said:

it's just a spam fest of aoe, insane burst, ridic boons, and invuln/blocks. it's so silly. 

 

really really REALLY need to scale the game back to core pacing. the power creep is just waaaaaayyy too much. also it's not spectator or noob friendly at all. 

you forgot teleport spam

  

On 7/7/2022 at 1:29 AM, Pati.2438 said:

To me the only things that left pvp in bleed actually are litterly the New EoD specs and yes I mean nearly all of them. To point some things that need to be looked and adressed:

Yeah, WvW and PvP got zero content from an EXPANSION besides elite that legit ruin both game modes. PvE is worse too, imo. EoD is a bad expac.

Edited July 10, 2022 by Kozumi.5816

[Myror.7521]

@Kozumi.5816 well imo i would say EoD made the game just worse and not good in any sence ^^. The only good things EoD was bringing to the game where fishing, cm Strikes, and skiffs. (Maybe also easy mode raids but well that drops after eod release). The maps are painting good but are feeling empty. The e-specs are pretty bad design wise. And yea more no more things are droped with EoD. So its like 3 good QoL things and rest is pretty bad. So yes the EoD expansion was pretty kitten bad but to be fair it was rushed or it feelt rushed ^^

[nightcore.2789]

company to bussy makein gemstore items than fixin the game sadly.. thats what u get when a game is free to play

[Kozumi.5816]

2 hours ago, nightcore.2789 said:

company to bussy makein gemstore items than fixin the game sadly.. thats what u get when a game is free to play

It's buy to play.

 

3 hours ago, Pati.2438 said:

well imo i would say EoD made the game just worse and not good in any sence ^^.

Yes it's worse than IBS. PvP and WvW got ruined by specs no one wants to fight and PvE has no rewards worth working towards. The entire game is directionless. Feels like a crappy mobile game.

[Kozumi.5816]

On 7/8/2022 at 4:58 AM, Ragnar.4257 said:

It's just that this insular echo-chamber community decided that the 2020 patch was ' universally bad' and made 'bunker meta' and assumed that that was a universally agreed take, when in reality there are still alot of players, particularly newer players, who still think that damage is too high and gameplay is too fast and spammy. They just aren't part of the clique of ~20 players who post 90% of the stuff on the pvp forum.

This forum thinks that "game needs more damage" and "gameplay way too slow" and "rEvErT 2o20 pAtCh" are universally agreed takes, but as this thread shows that's not actually everyone's view.

At the lowest ranks, everyone plays a bunker that can just sit there and tank damage forever.

  

On 7/8/2022 at 1:52 PM, lightstalker.1498 said:

the whole game sucks.

Yes, every single mode is bad now, This company has lost their way with GW2.

Edited July 10, 2022 by Kozumi.5816

[Nightcore.5621]

9 minutes ago, Kozumi.5816 said:

It's buy to play.

 

Yes it's worse than IBS. PvP and WvW got ruined by specs no one wants to fight and PvE has no rewards worth working towards. The entire game is directionless. Feels like a crappy mobile game.

No is not .. whole core game is free only expansion and livin World maps cost money

Edited July 10, 2022 by Nightcore.5621

[Myror.7521]

@Nightcore.5621 well it is buy to play when you want to play endgame things or not even that. Its buy to play when it comes to group content

[Nightcore.5621]

1 hour ago, Pati.2438 said:

@Nightcore.5621 well it is buy to play when you want to play endgame things or not even that. Its buy to play when it comes to group content

U dont need to pay to Play Pvp and we talkin Pvp and is fre to Play

[otto.5684]

On 7/8/2022 at 10:04 AM, Hotride.2187 said:

I started small scale pvp like 1.5 years ago, the gameplay is definitely slow. Less so in conquest (until you have to kill someone with a support near them), but in wvw its holy kitten slow. I've had 10+ min duels against condi bunkers (bunkers, definitely not 'bunkers'). At wvw duel spot there are no regulars on bunker builds, so I imagine I'm not alone in thinking the game is slow (though at this point you also rarely see regulars).

Coming from WoW dueling I can't remember a 1v1 ever taking so long (well I do remember one time), unless it was 2 healers... Especially on equal skill level a duel can take minutes (ages) in GW2. Even on "glass" builds sustain is on average high.

Even when damage was sky high, long duels were always a thing in GW2, since classes can self heal, and most of the incoming damage can be avoided. I do not think this is an issue. The issue is when fighting outnumbered starts to drag, and it easily does nowadays. This renders most of positioning and rotating useless.

[Eddie.9143]

18 hours ago, otto.5684 said:

Even when damage was sky high, long duels were always a thing in GW2, since classes can self heal, and most of the incoming damage can be avoided. I do not think this is an issue. The issue is when fighting outnumbered starts to drag, and it easily does nowadays. This renders most of positioning and rotating useless.

 

yeah 3 people blasting barriers, heals, water combos, and projectile hate on a point isn't engaging gameplay

 

I think more than people doing too much damage, they have waaaayy too many defenses, while some classes barely have any. 

 

people should be rewarded for correct positioning, rotating the field correctly, interrupting heals, using stun breaks at the right time (maybe holding it once or twice and eating damage) 

 

right now watching a vindicator play is so dumb.

[Vinny.7260]

Correct.