A gamemode dominated by same 3x professions for 10+ years....and players are triggered when killed by a lone roamer

[Lazze.9870]

On 7/19/2022 at 9:09 AM, Dadnir.5038 said:

As for Engineer, I'm not sure where it stand exactly right now but it managed to get a solid reputation in zerg thanks to a high condition convertion rate.

Conversion is just the cherry on the top, it'd still be meta without it. The cleansing + healing + superspeed + stealth is a package no other support can compete with.

A tempest can cleanse just as well, but you're not getting all the other benefits. Auras are nice, but not worth the trade off. Hell, even a competent druid can do decent cleansing and healing, but again, it's nowhere close the full scrapper package.

Edited August 10, 2022 by Lazze.9870

[Lazze.9870]

On 7/19/2022 at 11:20 AM, Aeolus.3615 said:

These stats carry way to much groups and the META roles are the only ones needed and they excell at that due the possible stats existing due their very defensive stats,

You can remove stat availability as much as you want, a scrapper would still be the prefered choice as a support and guardian would still be the main provider of stability and aegis.

[Xenesis.6389]

1 hour ago, Lazze.9870 said:

Conversion is just the cherry on the top, I'd still be meta without it. The cleansing + healing + superspeed + stealth is a package no other support can compete with.

Exactly, purity of purpose should have never been introduced, or more situational. But even putting them on the bottom of the cleanse tier would still have them as a meta class.

 

Apply Boon->Strip. End Cycle.

Apply Boon->Corruption->Cleanse. End cycle.

Not

Apply Boon->Corruption->Cleanse/convert->Corruption->Cleanse/convert->Corruption->Cleanse/convert->Corruption->Cleanse/convert->Corruption->Cleanse/convert->Corruption->Cleanse/convert->Corruption->Cleanse/convert->Corruption->Cleanse/convert->Corruption->Cleanse/convert->Corruption->Cleanse/convert->Corruption->Cleanse/convert->Corruption->Cleanse/convert->Corruption->Cleanse/convert->Corruption->Cleanse/convert->Corruption->Cleanse/convert->Corruption->Cleanse/convert->IcanKeepGoingIPromise.

 

The thing I don't get about the evolution of combat in this game, where's the more situational use of skills? why did everything have to turn into a spam fest? You get stunned, then you use a stun breaker, now it's just spam stability and not even worry. You get half a dozen conditions on you, then you cleanse, not it's stand in aoes fields and let your 8 scrappers spam cleanse convert, like wtf.

 

They're on about trying to raise the skill level of players, but did anet ever consider, this level of spam play just makes the players even more lazy? Mechanist gun spam with autobot lol, oh boy did the player skill level go up on that?! I feel like that affected their watching tv skill instead. I see zergs sitting in aoes far longer than they should, heck I was in one last night, sitting under aoes and siege spam for 5-10mins trying to pull people off walls. When you have commanders that don't even care about positional play (look at the top tier commanders and fight guilds and see what I mean about this) I feel like one of the cornerstones of combat in this game has just finally been dumpstered.

[Khenzy.9348]

On 7/17/2022 at 8:22 PM, Xenesis.6389 said:

What if they're losing their kitten about Willbender, Mechanist, or Harbinger?

This is what's the most funny and a great example of the terrible state of balance in this game mode. The three top tier group classes, Guardian, Engineer and Necromancer, also have top tier roaming specs, while every single other class is left eating the leftover scraps. It's getting a little ridiculous. 

 

Claiming that there's blatant class bias is no longer a broad, reactionary or inaccurate statement, it's a reality.

[Twilight Tempest.7584]

I only began playing the holy trinity classes in the past year (still have barely touched engi) and coming from everything else it's all too obvious what the devs play.

[yavi.3105]

All those threads by salty roamers unhappy they can't 1v1 their way through everyone.

[Sahne.6950]

On 7/31/2022 at 9:42 PM, yavi.3105 said:

All those threads by salty roamers unhappy they can't 1v1 their way through everyone.

you sir, seriously have to fight a celestialharbinger... just to come back to the ground again. You are lifted up so high its incredible.

Harbinger Greatmastertrait "weakening shroud" is literally not wroking since over a month and its still the most ridicilousthing since sliced bread. This needs some balancing asap.

please imagine ANY other build where its Greatmastertrait is not working.... those builds would straight up succ.... but harbinger...... harbinger is still stronger than anythign else even without its trait... and that shows just how borked the balancing really is.

Edited August 2, 2022 by Sahne.6950

[Tammuz.7361]

On 7/17/2022 at 2:38 PM, Cuks.8241 said:

None of those really has a second build. Maybe DH as a dps alternative to FB. Dps engie in zergs? Nope. Necro. Well if you consider the minor differences between reaper and scourge but for both primary role are strips and dmg. 

You can easily add rev in there. SB is still strong and arguablly mandatory. Noone will turn down a mesmer or 2. Same with tempest or weaver unless really stacked. 

Dont get me wrong meta is tight and stale but unless youre thief or ranger you should find a spot. 

 

SB and Rev are no longer META.  Youd almost always rather have another necro or DH at the moment sadly.

[yavi.3105]

7 hours ago, Sahne.6950 said:

you sir, seriously have to fight a celestialharbinger... just to come back to the ground again. You are lifted up so high its incredible.

 

 

Why would I ever want to 1v1 someone in this large scale  gamemode? I hope they continue balancing it towards mass content (BvB, maybe GvG), not "2 dudes flipping camps". If you wanna fight 1v1 i just /sit and then find something else to do, i don't play sPvP for a reason.

[Zyreva.1078]

16 minutes ago, yavi.3105 said:

 

Why would I ever want to 1v1 someone in this large scale  gamemode?

Because calling for an entire zerg, because there is one player harrassing your camps/dollies/waypoints/respawning zerglings is ... kinda unreasonable, no? Large scale =/= everyone stacked in one blob. Also for large parts of the day WvW tends to be rather low population, so should players just not be allowed to play when there are no zergs present?

WvW is designed in a way that makes small scale combat an intended part of this large scale game mode (tho nowadays the devs seem to ignore the original design).

Edited August 2, 2022 by UmbraNoctis.1907

[Xenesis.6389]

1 hour ago, yavi.3105 said:

Why would I ever want to 1v1 someone in this large scale  gamemode? I hope they continue balancing it towards mass content (BvB, maybe GvG), not "2 dudes flipping camps". If you wanna fight 1v1 i just /sit and then find something else to do, i don't play sPvP for a reason.

Probably because large scale meaning lots of people not fighting one blob.

Why don't you gvg dudes go do arenas only then, since you only care to fight groups in a flat circle and don't care about anything else that wvw was built for. Oh right you want rewards for your merry go round too even though you can't be bothered to play wvw in it's intended way but want it's rewards.

Edited August 2, 2022 by Xenesis.6389

[yavi.3105]

2 hours ago, Xenesis.6389 said:

Probably because large scale meaning lots of people not fighting one blob.

As long as you need group synergy, support, reliance on teammates and coordination to accomplish anything i'm ok either way. I can't imagine how cloud vs cloud would do that.

 

Quote

Why don't you gvg dudes go do arenas only then, since you only care to fight groups in a flat circle and don't care about anything else that wvw was built for. Oh right you want rewards for your merry go round too even though you can't be bothered to play wvw in it's intended way but want it's rewards.

Well if winning PPT had some rewards with it then probably people would care and fight for objectives more. You can also PPT quite effectively as a blob, and a lot of blobs do that.
Also, don't know if you played when merry-go-round was the meta and everyone just turned around at the sight of enemy - its way, way better now than then, at least people want to fight.

 

Edited August 2, 2022 by yavi.3105

[yavi.3105]

4 hours ago, UmbraNoctis.1907 said:

Because calling for an entire zerg, because there is one player harrassing your camps/dollies/waypoints/respawning zerglings is ... kinda unreasonable, no? Large scale =/= everyone stacked in one blob. Also for large parts of the day WvW tends to be rather low population, so should players just not be allowed to play when there are no zergs present?

WvW is designed in a way that makes small scale combat an intended part of this large scale game mode (tho nowadays the devs seem to ignore the original design).

Yes, and that is ok, its just way better to flip+flip than to defend, that is why people get triggered. Reward structure is bad. Forcing PvE players (and also players who like large scale) to do camp flipping for stuff is also a major factor that makes it bad.
I personally just find the idea of ganking camp flippers a bit "bullying"-ish and unfun. But i don't trigger, i just die peacefully and go elswhere.

[Xenesis.6389]

You get rewards from lords. You can get the same bags killing people while killing a lord. 🤷‍♂️

I much prefer going around and finding random fights in the map, rather than stand around in some small area of the map doing the same stealth, push, bomb, fail, yawn, repeat, till someone screws up the order.

Are you saying people don't just turn around at the sight of the enemies these days, especially if it's a fatter boon blob than them? when last did you play wvw lol, I see you "fite guilds" map hop all the time, because of the very reason you all swayed the devs to drive combat into, boon ball too stronk, run to find weaker group huehuehue.

Oh and to each their own, I don't have a problem with however someone wants to play wvw, but don't come around saying "your" way is the only way, wvw has a place for everyone.

Edited August 2, 2022 by Xenesis.6389

[yavi.3105]

14 minutes ago, Xenesis.6389 said:

Oh and to each their own, I don't have a problem with however someone wants to play wvw, but don't come around saying "your" way is the only way, wvw has a place for everyone.

But of course, in this thread arguing that my way is bad, encouraging players to play something useful in a group setting is "toxic entitelment" and generally saying that roaming is somehow better than and more whortwile zerg.

I have mostly nothing against roamers i just ignore you (hey, you get a lootbag out of it!), have your fun your way. Unless its 5 disgusting stealthers ganking 1 person, then well, i feel like watching a school bully a bit. And check if they still have fun if run over by 50-person blob. I guess they like it that way?

But - I just expressed my hope that anet doesn't change the current course of balancing towards large blobs.

And I mostly see map-hopping due to lack of fights or vast difference in numbers. Difference of numbers is not fault of "blob meta1111", but lack of any solution to server bandwagoning, anet relinking, etc. With roughly equal numbers blobs will fight blobs, roamers will fight roamers and all should be good i hope.

 

Quote

 You can get the same bags killing people while killing a lord.

Try to kill 30 lords every 5-10  minutes then 😛

Edited August 2, 2022 by yavi.3105

[Zyreva.1078]

20 minutes ago, yavi.3105 said:

Yes, and that is ok, its just way better to flip+flip than to defend, that is why people get triggered. Reward structure is bad. Forcing PvE players (and also players who like large scale) to do camp flipping for stuff is also a major factor that makes it bad.
I personally just find the idea of ganking camp flippers a bit "bullying"-ish and unfun. But i don't trigger, i just die peacefully and go elswhere.

Single-handedly defending objectives is bullying and ganking, but running over other players with a blob is epic pvp? Astounding logic ...

If you don't enjoy small scale combat that's fine, there is plenty of zerg action in WvW, but that doesn't mean other playstyles - that are preferred by other players - aren't just as valid.

Edited August 2, 2022 by UmbraNoctis.1907

[yavi.3105]

4 minutes ago, UmbraNoctis.1907 said:

Single-handedly defending objectives is bullying and ganking, but running over other players with a blob is epic pvp? Astounding logic ...

Please, try not to be hostile? If you are ganking a spawn-camp with several people you are mostly killing pve players who are trying to get their GoB cause anet forced them to, or some peeps who have no time to actively play atm but wanna do some participation (Thank u, stupid weekly caps). I don't much like it, thats it.

Also I don't know why you thing blobs run down roamers. Every roaming class can run away from a blob very easily. And 30+ ppl usually won't even chase 1 person.

Edited August 2, 2022 by yavi.3105

[Zyreva.1078]

1 minute ago, yavi.3105 said:

Please, try not to be hostile? If you are ganking a spawn-camp with several people you are mostly killing pve players who are trying to get their GoB cause anet forced them to, or some peeps who have no time to actively play atm but wanna do some participation. I don't much like it, thats it.

Now you are just making up random stuff that has nothing to do with what i said. Aside from this, every player who enters WvW should be considered a WvW player and treated the same way. Nobody should be entitled to do as the please without anyone interferring, just because they are only there for the (completely optional!) rewards.

(And no, i don't specifically target "PvE" players, but i also won't leave them alone if they get in my way).

1 minute ago, yavi.3105 said:

Also I don't know why you thing blobs run down roamers. Every roaming class can run away from a blob very easily. And 30+ ppl usually won't even chase 1 person.

As if ...

[yavi.3105]

6 minutes ago, UmbraNoctis.1907 said:

(And no, i don't specifically target "PvE" players, but i also won't leave them alone if they get in my way).

 

Then you are probably not member of a group of people thats sitting on spawn camps for hours waiting for single players to come to them which were the target of my comment 🙂

Edited August 2, 2022 by yavi.3105

[Sahne.6950]

yavi: aslong as i can blob in peace, No balance discussions matter.

kthxbye

please, just for a second,ingore the fact, that you think WvW is largescale only and aslong as a profession is not overperforming in largescale, there is no reason to balance it....

DONT YOU THINK THAT A PROFESSION COMPLETLY MISSING ITS GM TRAIT AND STILL OVERPERFORMING IS OKEY!?

 

Edited August 3, 2022 by Sahne.6950

[Luthan.5236]

In the WvW it is mainly dominated by zergs. They just run over you with bigger numbers and cap everything. No balance is needed. Just get more numbers and place tons of siege.

[Karagee.6830]

On 7/17/2022 at 8:38 PM, Cuks.8241 said:

None of those really has a second build. Maybe DH as a dps alternative to FB. Dps engie in zergs? Nope. Necro. Well if you consider the minor differences between reaper and scourge but for both primary role are strips and dmg. 

You can easily add rev in there. SB is still strong and arguablly mandatory. Noone will turn down a mesmer or 2. Same with tempest or weaver unless really stacked. 

Dont get me wrong meta is tight and stale but unless youre thief or ranger you should find a spot. 

Oh yeah, we forgot Willbender and Harbinger are not guardians and necros after all...

I assume we're not talking about zergs since scrappers, fb, scourge and possibly even dh are all meta afaik.

Edited August 3, 2022 by Karagee.6830

[Karagee.6830]

12 hours ago, yavi.3105 said:

Please, try not to be hostile? If you are ganking a spawn-camp with several people you are mostly killing pve players who are trying to get their GoB cause anet forced them to, or some peeps who have no time to actively play atm but wanna do some participation (Thank u, stupid weekly caps). I don't much like it, thats it.

Also I don't know why you thing blobs run down roamers. Every roaming class can run away from a blob very easily. And 30+ ppl usually won't even chase 1 person.

Well one thing is killing players while trying to take an objective (eg both go for south camp held by 3rd team) another is hounding the same spawn camp in 10-12 people for hours like JS people do. All invisible as well. You know, these people stay there even if you contest their keep on the other side of the map or their garrison or take other camps...

I'm going to mark the date, when we play these people and hunt them down like they deserve, now that we'll have numbers. Ah they are paired with Deso...

Edited August 3, 2022 by Karagee.6830

[Loke.1429]

and they make very few good changes, and they make no comments of acknowledgement or promises, and they keep making bad pve changes into wvw

Edited August 6, 2022 by Loke.1429

[yavi.3105]

On 8/3/2022 at 8:52 AM, Sahne.6950 said:

yavi: aslong as i can blob in peace, No balance discussions matter.

Well I would like balance changes to nerf the thieves and harbringer, possibly also SB, I also would like ele to be back as meta dps and some of DH/Herald nerfs reversed. I also would like the warrior to not be able to solo kill 5 ppl in 3 seconds.
Everyone has a wishlist u know 🙂