The August 2 Update and Chronomancer

[GWstinkt.6094]

The August 2 update is missing the mark on Chronomancer and here's why:

The upcoming changes are a buff to the power damage output of Mesmer.  While this will improve the performance of power Chrono, it does nothing to make the e-spec more fun or desirable in any role.

Chronomancer has lost it's identity and the August 2 changes reflect that. Mesmer already has a spec with a theme, weapon, traits and abilities that focus on delivering damage: Virtuoso. Core Mesmer also comes with great traits for improving power and condition output and both power and condi Virtuoso should be in a great spot after the update.

On the other hand Chronomancer is themed around controlling and warping time. It's abilities are stationary wells with incredible visual and sound design that are currently being wasted. It's weapon is the shield. Chrono is clearly set up to a control and support focused specialization and that is where it shines. Trying to bring back Chrono by buffing it's damage output will at best result in boring, mediocre, undesirable but technically viable builds.

So whats holding back good chrono builds and what can be done about it?

Support Core Mesmer:

Current Mesmer's access to healing and boons is mediocre at best. A lot of boons and boon sharing has been stripped from Mesmer, leaving it with very little it can actually do to support. Mesmer actually has good traits for generating healing and boons from summoning and then shattering clones, but is currently unable to actually share those boons or generate impressive amounts of healing from it. 

Fix:

• touch up the numbers on healing and cleansing in Inspiration
• add better access to boons in Chaos and make them shareable
• potentially change the minor traits in Chaos to also benefit power builds to make boon power Mesmer more viable

Chronomancer Wells:

The current state of Chrono wells is bad. Their effects are generic and weak, making them undesirable for any build. While the heal and elite well are still fine, the other needs desperately need another pass. I would suggest giving each well a clear, dedicated function and role.
Wells should also be updated in their design to better fit the current game play loop. They should always provide some of their benefits upfront to make them usable in any encounter. They could also always have their biggest payoff on the last pulse to reward both the Chrono and his team for properly timing and playing around the wells.

Fix:

• a Support well that provides things like: Barrier, Aegis, Stability, Stun Break
• a Boon well that provides multiple, useful boons that Core Mesmer is lacking
• a Power well that provides good damage and cleave for power builds
• a Condition well that provides good damage and cleave for condi builds

Quickness and Alacrity:

These boons used to be Chrono's bread and butter but it has since lost that role to many other specs. While it would be neat for the time mage to still have access to both boons on pure support builds, I can see how it would make balancing difficult. I would personally find solace in Chrono being easily able to swap between Quickness or Alacrity depending on the groups needs. Wells and Shield could play a key role in that. The improved wells mentioned above, as well as a slightly improved shield could be viable on any heal support or dps support build.

Fix:

• make both Stretched Time and Seize the Moment use Wells and Shield for boon application
• increase the boon generation on shield to make it a viable choice in any non pure dps build

Power Chronomancer:

Putting a damage multiplier for Power Chrono onto Improved Alacrity doesn't help much, as choosing the multiplier makes you lose out on the crit chance.

Fix:

• remove the modifier from Improved Alacrity
• change Danger Time to: 10% Crit Chance & 10% Crit Damage

I think these changes should bring back a lot of options for Chrono. Let me know if I missed anything 😃

Edited July 29, 2022 by GWstinkt.6094

[Voyant.1327]

It just genuinely feels like they forgot and rushed last minute to do something after spending all their time on Warriors.

Doesn't really provide a feeling of confidence, especially with their history regarding mesmers and elementalists. 

[oscuro.9720]

The preview was just a preview, and not the full patch notes, correct? Or did I miss something?

 

Also, I think this would make more sense/get more engagement in the actual Mesmer sub forum than the general Professions one, just so you know 🙂 

[LadyKitty.6120]

In current situation with SoI nerfed and being forced to either choose heals or 5-target SoI and some other classes having access to high Resistance uptime (which was nerfed as a boon anyway) and pumping big boons, it wouldn't even be oppressive for Bountiful Disillusionment-trait to be returned to its former glory of sharing its boons to 5 players. It was an issue when Mesmer was able to spread its boons with old SoI but now? Nope. Might and Vigor could also get their base duration increased from 8 seconds to 10 seconds and F1's might output increased from 5 stacks to 8 stack which still means 13 second ramp-up with Improved Alacrity, slower than any other class.

Chaotic Transference could also be reworked to give Protection to allies after doing something like using Healing Skill and also sharing the Regen to allies you give Protection to.

To address lowest heal output (only warr has weaker), Restorative Mantras could have Healing Power co-efficient increased from 0.5 to 0.7. Restorative Illusions could be changed to affect allies as well. Illusionary Inspiration could get "+2% Outgoing Healing when you summon an illusion. (8s, 10 stacks max)".

With these changes, at least Heal Boon Chrono would become somewhat competent option though long Mantra recharges (esp. Mantra of Resolve's cleanse, could also get Regen) still limit the supportive capability.

Healing output-wise Heal Boon Chrono wouldb e around 3500-4000 HPS per target which is about or slightly below average while having relatively high opportunity costs to be able to do same stuffs as other healers, if able at all. For comparison, Tempest heals about 5k, Heal Renegade about 5k and Heal Engis about 7-8k HPS. GotL druid heal for about 3000-3500 HPS but still has lots of utility at low opportunity cost to compensate.

[Gorem.8104]

17 hours ago, oscuro.9720 said:

The preview was just a preview, and not the full patch notes, correct? Or did I miss something?

 

Also, I think this would make more sense/get more engagement in the actual Mesmer sub forum than the general Professions one, just so you know 🙂 

 

Did ya not see their June 28th patch "Preview" compared to the update and how it was exactly the same to the point that "We can't change anything in the preview anyway so what's the point of feedback on the preview, everyone hates this patch but we still pushing it anyway". 

[Tseison.4659]

 

[Levetty.1279]

19 hours ago, oscuro.9720 said:

The preview was just a preview, and not the full patch notes, correct? Or did I miss something?

 

People say this every time and it is never the case.

[oscuro.9720]

5 hours ago, Levetty.1279 said:

People say this every time and it is never the case.

Whenever it’s just a couple of classes, it tends to be just a preview. They’ve done this multiple times. What I meant wasn’t that the previewed changes wouldn’t go into effect, but wouldn’t be the full set of changes. Again, they’ve done this multiple times. 

[GWstinkt.6094]

11 hours ago, oscuro.9720 said:

Whenever it’s just a couple of classes, it tends to be just a preview. They’ve done this multiple times.

This update planned for changes to core Mesmer weapons and Chrono specific traits to improve Mesmer's and Chrono's power performance. No other changes to Mesmer were planned for this update. This happens to be exactly everything we see in the preview.

 

I think it's highly unlikely that they will drastically change the scope of this patch after releasing the preview. They seem to have a set schedule for balance updates now so the best thing we could hope for would be them deciding to address the issues I mentioned in a future update.

 

On the upside it feels like they are picking up pace and are genuinly trying to listen to player feedback and and support a diverse set of play styles for all professions. It'll just take time to implement but for now I'm optimistic.

Edited July 31, 2022 by GWstinkt.6094

[mungozen.2379]

This patch preview didn’t mention Mesmer Wells which I think are probably the most convoluted utility skills in the game currently.  I don’t see Anet suddenly providing trait or skill reworks to Wells before Tuesday so, these patch notes barely scratch the surface of Chrono issues.  When the dust settles, pChrono may have a place in the Raid meta, but I doubt we see Alac or Quick Chrono being viable in any game mode.  I have lost faith in Anet and their ability to deliver balance updates that actually impact problem builds. 

[Bunny.9834]

On 7/29/2022 at 7:30 PM, oscuro.9720 said:

The preview was just a preview, and not the full patch notes, correct? Or did I miss something?

Their previews in the past always end up as final product anyway regardless of the feedback from the community. 

But yeah, the little damage tweaks to AA is gonna do nothing for this spec.  

 

[Nash.2681]

On 7/29/2022 at 1:29 PM, GWstinkt.6094 said:

The August 2 update is missing the mark on Chronomancer and here's why:

The upcoming changes are a buff to the power damage output of Mesmer.  While this will improve the performance of power Chrono, it does nothing to make the e-spec more fun or desirable in any role.

Chronomancer has lost it's identity and the August 2 changes reflect that. Mesmer already has a spec with a theme, weapon, traits and abilities that focus on delivering damage: Virtuoso. Core Mesmer also comes with great traits for improving power and condition output and both power and condi Virtuoso should be in a great spot after the update.

On the other hand Chronomancer is themed around controlling and warping time. It's abilities are stationary wells with incredible visual and sound design that are currently being wasted. It's weapon is the shield. Chrono is clearly set up to a control and support focused specialization and that is where it shines. Trying to bring back Chrono by buffing it's damage output will at best result in boring, mediocre, undesirable but technically viable builds.

[...]

Not neccessarily disagreeing, but the announced changes seem to be in line with their current vision of the game. It seems as if all classes should be able to fullfill a dps role, a dps-support role and a pure support role (that there's still quite a long way to go until we have that and in return it will make class choices rather irrelevant and just a matter of personal taste, if they ever manage to pull that vision through in a balanced way that is, is another thing...). So what I highlighted in the quote seems to be the future in general.

For Mesmers we'd have Virtuoso for the pure DPS, after tomorrow Chrono for alac or quick dps and for pure support (mostly tanking/special roles)... again Chrono. So to me, the biggest loser seems to be Mirage.

[GWstinkt.6094]

12 minutes ago, Nash.2681 said:

For Mesmers we'd have Virtuoso for the pure DPS, after tomorrow Chrono for alac or quick dps and for pure support (mostly tanking/special roles)... again Chrono. So to me, the biggest loser seems to be Mirage.

DPS, boon DPS and boon heal are the roles that have formed in structured group PvE content in guild wars. I generally agree with Anets goal to have every profession offer at least one build for (almost) every role.

While it makes professions less unique in what they can offer, it does a ton for build variety and player choice. Restricting certain roles to specific builds leads to metals like banner slave where a class is forced in a specific role because that is the objectively strongest way to play the game.

As for Mesmer, Mirage offers a strong alac DPS or pure DPS. Both builds work great and are viable.

What Mesmer is currently lacking is access to a good boon heal or quickness build because chronomancer has been completely dismantled. Buffing Chrono's power damage will do little to make the quickness DPS build actually desirable to play and does nothing to address the complete lack of a good heal support build. It's a big shame because Chrono was clearly set up to be the supportive Mesmer elite spec. But after nerfing all core support traits and now Chrono's support ability directly there's sadly nothing left of it.

[Nash.2681]

1 hour ago, GWstinkt.6094 said:

DPS, boon DPS and boon heal are the roles that have formed in structured group PvE content in guild wars. I generally agree with Anets goal to have every profession offer at least one build for (almost) every role.

While it makes professions less unique in what they can offer, it does a ton for build variety and player choice. Restricting certain roles to specific builds leads to metals like banner slave where a class is forced in a specific role because that is the objectively strongest way to play the game.

As for Mesmer, Mirage offers a strong alac DPS or pure DPS. Both builds work great and are viable.

What Mesmer is currently lacking is access to a good boon heal or quickness build because chronomancer has been completely dismantled. Buffing Chrono's power damage will do little to make the quickness DPS build actually desirable to play and does nothing to address the complete lack of a good heal support build. It's a big shame because Chrono was clearly set up to be the supportive Mesmer elite spec. But after nerfing all core support traits and now Chrono's support ability directly there's sadly nothing left of it.

I'm aware what Mirage offers. But in all honesty- if I'd to chose to get just 1 € for every dps Virtuoso or Mirage in strike/raid squads, I know what I'd pick. Even Alac Mirage is pretty rare nowadays since it's dmg largely depends on the boss and other specs poop alac left and right with better uptime already. So IF this patch makes chrono dps support a solid pick (something like quick harbinger, alac Mech, alac Rev, quick Herald etc.) Mirage will be pretty much redundant.

[Levetty.1279]

4 hours ago, Nash.2681 said:

Not neccessarily disagreeing, but the announced changes seem to be in line with their current vision of the game. It seems as if all classes should be able to fullfill a dps role, a dps-support role and a pure support role (that there's still quite a long way to go until we have that and in return it will make class choices rather irrelevant and just a matter of personal taste, if they ever manage to pull that vision through in a balanced way that is, is another thing...). So what I highlighted in the quote seems to be the future in general.

For Mesmers we'd have Virtuoso for the pure DPS, after tomorrow Chrono for alac or quick dps and for pure support (mostly tanking/special roles)... again Chrono. So to me, the biggest loser seems to be Mirage.

Chrono still won't be able to alac dps nor be a pure support. Honestly its quick dps is still going to have a lot of problems too. Mirage will be a better alac DPS but still not that great either.

[GWstinkt.6094]

3 hours ago, Nash.2681 said:

I'm aware what Mirage offers. But in all honesty- if I'd to chose to get just 1 € for every dps Virtuoso or Mirage in strike/raid squads, I know what I'd pick. Even Alac Mirage is pretty rare nowadays since it's dmg largely depends on the boss and other specs poop alac left and right with better uptime already. So IF this patch makes chrono dps support a solid pick (something like quick harbinger, alac Mech, alac Rev, quick Herald etc.) Mirage will be pretty much redundant.

Balance imo is not about achieving equal representation. Some specs are easier, more reliable, more fun or look cooler. Some specs will be more broadly useful while others serve more niche purposes. Players will naturally gravitate towards certain specs while others will see less play.

To me balance is about making sure that every spec is reasonably viable and not so far behind others that it would be a crutch to play it.

On mirage the alacrity is more difficult to maintain and the damage less reliable because of confusion. However both alac and dps mirage do plenty damage and are absolutely viable to play. I'm sure things could be done to make more players pick up mirage, but those of us who are already playing the spec are doing absolutely fine.

Chrono and support Mesmer in general however have been made so weak that it's hardly useable. Giving them another pass would do a lot to diversify Mesmer builds again.

Edited August 1, 2022 by GWstinkt.6094

[Moradorin.6217]

On 8/1/2022 at 9:02 AM, GWstinkt.6094 said:

Balance imo is not about achieving equal representation. Some specs are easier, more reliable, more fun or look cooler. Some specs will be more broadly useful while others serve more niche purposes. Players will naturally gravitate towards certain specs while others will see less play.

To me balance is about making sure that every spec is reasonably viable and not so far behind others that it would be a crutch to play it.

On mirage the alacrity is more difficult to maintain and the damage less reliable because of confusion. However both alac and dps mirage do plenty damage and are absolutely viable to play. I'm sure things could be done to make more players pick up mirage, but those of us who are already playing the spec are doing absolutely fine.

Chrono and support Mesmer in general however have been made so weak that it's hardly useable. Giving them another pass would do a lot to diversify Mesmer builds again.

It really comes down to trait lines, core weapon damage, lack of elite and utility in core Mesmer that was done to balance both chrono and Mirage without doing a redesign, but then later they still did a redesign in the form of trade offs. Then trade offs never became a balanced thing over each spec and class so it just became a new type of imbalance which complicated the original balance issues with various classes, like Mirage, Chrono, soulbeast, DD, etc which all had things baked into them that made them out dps core and have more utility than core in every mode.

This IMO was to make people want to buy the expacs to gain that new function.

 

Mirage is kittened because it plays totally different in pvp/wvw vs pve it will NEVER what I would consider a fluid spec as it stands because of it. That is, you cannot flow from pvp to pve as Mirage without totally intentionally thinking about it as a separate spec in which Mirage cloak is used differently and functionality of ambush skills is not at all the same when you have 1 dodge some times and 2 the rest.

Chrono was always kittened because it generated phants and things way faster thanks to CS, alac, etc which made it equially impossible to balance and still let core be good.

TBH core wasnt really good ever since HoT because its elites lost any real purpose and never got a proper revamp/replacement. Meanwhile, glammor was also removed from traits, signets and healing got changed, etc, etc all to balance especs that still arent balanced and also arent top performers anymore. So it seems like core needs massive revamping and upgrading which would end up making both Mirage and chrono better and would probably require they each get tweaked.

 

All that said, I don't forsee Anet admiting those mistakes or giving Mirage its dodge back and fix the way ambush and MC works so its not some bizzar split mode functionality like it is now. They might fix chrono cause it was always popular in pve and would give Mesmers a straw to grasp.

Yes Mirage works in pve but, generally, not very good if you consider how few people actually use it and how poorly any skill gained in pve with it can prepare you for pvp and wvw, which is a true shame. No other spec is so badly split in function between game modes.

 

Chrono should be happy with what they have. Duno why I wrote that I guess I just think chrono has faired best overall as Mesmer goes, at least up until EoD maybe.

Edited August 4, 2022 by Moradorin.6217

[Xenesis.6389]

The wells are still pretty garbage, don't see a reason why there's two well traits either...

I'm just happy they haven't deleted chrono's second dodge...

 

[draxynnic.3719]

20 hours ago, Nash.2681 said:

I'm aware what Mirage offers. But in all honesty- if I'd to chose to get just 1 € for every dps Virtuoso or Mirage in strike/raid squads, I know what I'd pick. Even Alac Mirage is pretty rare nowadays since it's dmg largely depends on the boss and other specs poop alac left and right with better uptime already. So IF this patch makes chrono dps support a solid pick (something like quick harbinger, alac Mech, alac Rev, quick Herald etc.) Mirage will be pretty much redundant.

Probably a combination of ease of use and range. Condi mirage currently benches at 1.5k higher than condi virt (although I'm not familiar enough with the benching process to know just how much confusion procs come into that). Certainly still feels viable to me, and the nice thing is that there are use cases for both condivirt and condimirage.

Alacmirage gets bullied a bit by alacmech as just about everyone does, but I still get asked to alacmirage reasonably often. Probably mostly out of convenience (if I'm already on mesmer, it's easy to switch to), but still...

[Nash.2681]

20 hours ago, GWstinkt.6094 said:

Balance imo is not about achieving equal representation. Some specs are easier, more reliable, more fun or look cooler. Some specs will be more broadly useful while others serve more niche purposes. Players will naturally gravitate towards certain specs while others will see less play.

To me balance is about making sure that every spec is reasonably viable and not so far behind others that it would be a crutch to play it.

On mirage the alacrity is more difficult to maintain and the damage less reliable because of confusion. However both alac and dps mirage do plenty damage and are absolutely viable to play. I'm sure things could be done to make more players pick up mirage, but those of us who are already playing the spec are doing absolutely fine.

Chrono and support Mesmer in general however have been made so weak that it's hardly useable. Giving them another pass would do a lot to diversify Mesmer builds again.

I don't disagree, it's just the road ANet seems to take.

 

21 hours ago, Levetty.1279 said:

Chrono still won't be able to alac dps nor be a pure support. Honestly its quick dps is still going to have a lot of problems too. Mirage will be a better alac DPS but still not that great either.

We don't know yet. Will  have to see how Alac and Quick Chrono perform after tonights update.

2 hours ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

Probably a combination of ease of use and range. Condi mirage currently benches at 1.5k higher than condi virt (although I'm not familiar enough with the benching process to know just how much confusion procs come into that). Certainly still feels viable to me, and the nice thing is that there are use cases for both condivirt and condimirage.

Alacmirage gets bullied a bit by alacmech as just about everyone does, but I still get asked to alacmirage reasonably often. Probably mostly out of convenience (if I'm already on mesmer, it's easy to switch to), but still...

That almost certainly the main reason, plus one doesn't have to handle the counter-intuitive dodge mechanic of Mirage. Never said Mirage won't be viable again, I just predict it to see even less play if Chrono can fill an Alac spot with reasonable DPS.

That the abomination called Alach Mech overshadows everything else is sadly out of question.

[otto.5684]

Power dps chrono did not have functionality change for a long time. Support, ya. 

[Dante.1508]

The issue is Anet only cares about the new and shiny, not the old and busted.. They have this frankly asinine view to never go back and fix old content..

[GWstinkt.6094]

5 hours ago, Dante.1508 said:

The issue is Anet only cares about the new and shiny, not the old and busted.. They have this frankly asinine view to never go back and fix old content..

This post is literally about a balance patch trying to fix older specs. It's just that the fixes for chronomancer are missing the mark.

Being a doomer about the game and the devs will do nothing to improve it or your experience of it.

 

[Levetty.1279]

On 8/2/2022 at 1:27 PM, Nash.2681 said:

We don't know yet. Will  have to see how Alac and Quick Chrono perform after tonights update.

Oh look I was right, it seems when told the exact changes that are coming people are correctly able to predict the effects it will have on builds and people who can't do that are probably too busy getting 4kdps in dragon's end and then whining its too hard. 

 

How about that.

[Dante.1508]

On 8/3/2022 at 6:05 PM, GWstinkt.6094 said:

This post is literally about a balance patch trying to fix older specs. It's just that the fixes for chronomancer are missing the mark.

Being a doomer about the game and the devs will do nothing to improve it or your experience of it.

 

They fix only as little as they can get away with.