Are Mounts Necessary?

[Squee.7829]

Literally no one said that.

[Klowdy.3126]

You obviously don't like mounts in the new zone, OP. That is quite clear by your disagreeing with everything everyone else has said. Just understand they aren't going away, and others have different opinions.

Off topic, your wall of text damage is over 9000. Break that shit up.

[jia li ng.8415]

The answer to whether or not mounts are necessary in 1-15 starter zones is a resounding, NO, they are not. Like driving 65mph through a school zone isn't necessary, but because there are cars people do.

On my run through Calendon only 2 out of the 20 players I saw were mounted, a mere 10% would be effected by limiting mounts.

[Yamazuki.6073]

@"jia li ng.8415" said:We're here because some think that without the use of a mounts in 1-15 starter zones Guild Wars will become unplayable. It won't of course ...

Just offering a suggestion to give balance to anyone new starting the game. Once a F2P player achieves level 10 and ventures into their respective city to witness all the flash, glitter, and glamour of armor, weapons, gliders, and mounts they might be even more likely to expand their horizons. Having their initiation into Guild Wars a Nostalgic walk through a past we all shared, it is the very foundation of our community.

You're suggestion doesn't balance anything. Mounts being usable is more of an equalizer if anything, as anyone can use them unless it's a brand new account or PoF not purchased. Without mounts it will simply come down to who is playing a mobile class. Level 80s will simply always have an advantage, and the only "solution" is preventing them from being there in the first place, which is not necessary.

Focus less on being "equal" is the better solution.

By the way, the "community" isn't a community. There are hundreds of communities playing the game, and most of them most likely don't agree with yours.

[Veprovina.4876]

@jia li ng.8415 said:The answer to whether or not mounts are necessary in 1-15 starter zones is a resounding, NO, they are not. Like driving 65mph through a school zone isn't necessary, but because there are cars people do.

On my run through Calendon only 2 out of the 20 players I saw were mounted, a mere 10% would be effected by limiting mounts.

So, by comparing careless driving in the school zone to mounts in starter areas, your new thread of logic is, some of the low level players can be hurt by mounts so we need to ban them in starting areas?Didn't we already cover that and it got disproven?You're back at square 1. I assume at this point we're going in circles?

[Neutra.6857]

@jia li ng.8415 said:The answer to whether or not mounts are necessary in 1-15 starter zones is a resounding, NO, they are not. Like driving 65mph through a school zone isn't necessary, but because there are cars people do.

On my run through Calendon only 2 out of the 20 players I saw were mounted, a mere 10% would be effected by limiting mounts.

No one has said that they are necessary, gliding isn't necessary either. Hell the entire game isn't necessary. You claimed that mounts are a problem in the starter zones, now you are saying that hardly anyone uses them. So if so few people use them they should not be that big of a problem, if one at all. So why should they be banned?

[costepj.5120]

@jia li ng.8415 said:The answer to whether or not mounts are necessary in 1-15 starter zones is a resounding, NO, they are not. Like driving 65mph through a school zone isn't necessary, but because there are cars people do.

There is no need to drive anywhere. People were able to walk before the car was invented. By banning cars, there would be less RTAs and people would be fitter. Now try and persuade your Government to enshrine that into law.

[Dashiva.6149]

People seems to agree that the scaling of damage has issues.Aside from that this thread has become quite a spectacular trainwreck. This has taken so many turns I am not sure what the exact problem OP have is anymore.

[FrizzFreston.5290]

@jia li ng.8415 said:The answer to whether or not mounts are necessary in 1-15 starter zones is a resounding, NO, they are not. Like driving 65mph through a school zone isn't necessary, but because there are cars people do.

On my run through Calendon only 2 out of the 20 players I saw were mounted, a mere 10% would be effected by limiting mounts.

Or you could come to the conclusion that mounts aren't an issue after all because ONLY 10% are using them.

[jia li ng.8415]

Thank you for noticing English is my second language, I appreciate the grammatical lessons, very helpful indeed.I also appreciate how words and phrases get twisted. Thank you for your whine, but I'm all out of cheese.

[Neutra.6857]

@jia li ng.8415 said:Thank you for noticing English is my second language, I appreciate the grammatical lessons, very helpful indeed.I also appreciate how words and phrases get twisted. Thank you, for your whine but I'm all out of cheese.

...what? You have failed to demonstrate that the problem is mounts. You even have posts that directly contradict your claims. Seriously try to get your thoughts gathered in a coherent manner and then describe what you think the actual problem is as well as provide evidence that it is actually a problem. At this point the only one who has been whining is you.

[Just a flesh wound.3589]

So far the OP has said that mounts should be removed in starter maps because they harm low levels. But then he refutes his own argument by1) saying that f2p players like seeing mounts in the starter maps2) proving he and other low levels had no trouble using their skills to thwart these horrible level 80s3) stating that he’s played as a low level and not only had no problems with other’s mounts, he hardly seen any at all

After that, his argument was that low levels should get the authentic starter experience the same as we had it back at launch. However he failed to demonstrate why this was important and he failed to show that any new players also want this.

In conclusion, the rebuttal for all that the OP has said boils down to this

[Menadena.7482]

@"jia li ng.8415" said:There is no "need" in level 1-15 zones to use mounts or gliders.

There is no "need" to use legendary weapons in starter areas either but do you REALLY think people will not look at you funny for suggesting they not wield them?

[Menadena.7482]

@jia li ng.8415 said:If you can tell me how it has become absolutely inconceivable to enter a zone without the use of a mount or glider, how completely unimaginable it would be to go back to a simpler style of playing, on equal terms as those who are still arriving to Guild Wars 2, tell me.I don't need to read about your wants.

I am now used to the speed of mounts and gliders. Recently I had to cross a zone on an alt account that was sans mount. It was practically painful watching how slow I was going.

I do not care about the tail swipe skill in low level zones. It can be taken away and I would probably only notice it during a few HPs.

[FrizzFreston.5290]

@jia li ng.8415 said:Thank you for noticing English is my second language, I appreciate the grammatical lessons, very helpful indeed.I also appreciate how words and phrases get twisted. Thank you for your whine, but I'm all out of cheese.

Words and phrases get twisted when those words and phrases are opinions, which can differ between two persons. You make one observation, and form an opinion. I make the same observation and am able to make an entirely different opinion from the same observation.

[Menadena.7482]

@"jia li ng.8415" said:...and so it goes,again bringing the tread back on topic, it occurred again tonight "the tail swiping raptors invasion" continuesbut tonight my F2P friends were readied with staves in hand to steal the events from the errant Charr ...its seems the AoE strategy worked in Metrica ProvinceA Necromancer and an Elemental were able to complete their 4 events with ease

I actually am proud of my little Padawan's

It was fun to watch them working as a team slowing and burning inquest, while the raptor riding Charr was left spinning in his dust!

So you are complaining but because of the mounted player the newbies learned EXACTLY how they should play, ie, helping each other?

[Erulogos.2591]

@jia li ng.8415 said:We're here because some think that without the use of a mounts in 1-15 starter zones Guild Wars will become unplayable. It won't of course ...

Just offering a suggestion to give balance to anyone new starting the game. Once a F2P player achieves level 10 and ventures into their respective city to witness all the flash, glitter, and glamour of armor, weapons, gliders, and mounts they might be even more likely to expand their horizons. Having their initiation into Guild Wars a Nostalgic walk through a past we all shared, it is the very foundation of our community.

I don't ever recall seeing anyone saying that. Except possibly your straw man.I don't believe you're qualified to pontificate on the 'very foundation of our community', certainly not more than many others here.

@jia li ng.8415 said:The answer to whether or not mounts are necessary in 1-15 starter zones is a resounding, NO, they are not. Like driving 65mph through a school zone isn't necessary, but because there are cars people do.

On my run through Calendon only 2 out of the 20 players I saw were mounted, a mere 10% would be effected by limiting mounts.

Mounts in lowbie zones is about as analogous to driving 65 mph in a school zone as a paper cut is analogous to having your arm chopped off. Hyperbole is an ineffective argument tactic, particularly when taken to such an extreme.

[Astra Lux.2846]

@Teofa Tsavo.9863 said:I don't think the raptor's tail attack scales properly in the newby zones. The char I just started is doing HPs there, and the raptor is just death from above. My char is 55 (scroll), in junk, and her attacks are scaling, but the raptor's tail swipe takes out 5 at a time. I need those HPs though. I finally just used raptor to travel, it was getting silly.

This is the main problem I've seen with mounts in lower level areas, especially with the masteries that improve engage attacks. I can one-shot swarms of mobs with engage skills, even ones that I can barely scratch when dismounted.

[Biff.5312]

@Vaper.1469 said:Speaking as someone who has no LVL 80s and therefore no mounts, I can't say I've felt like I've been particularly disadvantaged in the starter areas.

I find that interesting. For low level players without mounts, events should offer an opportunity to learn how to work together and play your class in concert with a group in order to overcome a fairly difficult goal (hopefully something you can't realistically do alone). Instead, you just pitch in on an overwhelming attack in which some lvl 80s mount will gather and kill almost everything in one swipe. It may be that you still get your shots in, but you must lose some element of challenge. More importantly, you don't need to learn to work with the other players. Isn't that a handicap?

Maybe the events are just too easy regardless.

[Ayumi Spender.1082]

@Menadena.7482 said:

@"jia li ng.8415" said:There is no "need" in level 1-15 zones to use mounts or gliders.

There is no "need" to use legendary weapons in starter areas either but do you REALLY think people will not look at you funny for suggesting they not wield them?

People too lazy to change out into a level 1 weapon.

[jia li ng.8415]

Apparently, I have witnessed this discussion and have seen it evolve commenters to this thread and myself are both representing a minority within the Guild Wars community.The tip of this iceberg is that while majority players chose to use there mounts in more appropriate zones, the use of mounts in 1-15 zones is not needed, unless it is to save a couple players from their boredom. Can you save time opening a map, the answer is "yes", a whopping 15-20 minutes, but the monotony still exists."Boredom is a condition of the unimaginative"10% of players are using their mounts appropriately in the 1-15 starter zones to save precious game time. What I am addressing is the necessity of mounts use at all in these zones. In this community of millions players, the F2P players out there are the tens of thousands without a voice. These players are still part of the community, a silent minority that eventually will have a voice because F2P players will evolve and purchase Guild Wars 2.My resolution in one of my earliest threads I proposed that the daily be adjusted to account character level whereby a player of low levels would be able to complete their daily without intervention by higher level players, and that would resolve the problem completely.

Example:Newly created accounts with character levels below 15 have separate daily achievements on the 1-15 maps with everything from foraging, mining, logging, events, and jumping puzzles. Once that account reaches the threshold of a character level 16 participation in these events would no longer be available.Players accounts who have characters 16-34 would then be given appropriate level tasks and zones to complete their daily achievements (F2P players have no access to Lions Arch until level 35) of foraging, mining, logging, events, and jumping puzzles, after gaining level 35 participation in these sets of dailies is no longer available.Once a player character reaches 35 on their account and gains access to Lion's Arch the ability to participate in the daily activity achievement as well.What this introduces is a further balancing to the game, level 80 characters would no longer need to acquire their daily achievements in zones lower than 35.By doing this system of balancing a player could still purchase Heart of Thorns and or Path of Fire, but the moment they use a level booster to rush to level 80, zones lower than 34 would no longer be required for the completion of daily achievements.

Furthermore, It is interesting that commenters can use disparaging remarks to impugn my views, observations, and use veiled abusive language and to get away with their insults to me, I appreciate those who chose not to do so.

[Veprovina.4876]

@Biff.5312 said:

@Vaper.1469 said:Speaking as someone who has no LVL 80s and therefore no mounts, I can't say I've felt like I've been particularly disadvantaged in the starter areas.

I find that interesting. For low level players without mounts, events should offer an opportunity to learn how to work together and play your class in concert with a group in order to overcome a fairly difficult goal (hopefully something you can't realistically do alone). Instead, you just pitch in on an overwhelming attack in which some lvl 80s mount will gather and kill almost everything in one swipe. It may be that you still get your shots in, but you must lose some element of challenge. More importantly, you don't need to learn to work with the other players. Isn't that a handicap?

Maybe the events are just too easy regardless.

Scaling in general only works so far (except mounts which don't scale in damage, only their HP), if you show up in a low level zone with full ascended gear pimped with runes and sigils that all work in concert with your 3 chosen spcializations which all have mutual synergy... Then you're definitely going to be way more overpowered than someone who maybe unlocked their first specialization and hasn't even trained it fully yet. Low level zones are meant for low level players. Scaling happens so that high level players won't literally one shot everything that comes near them with a single autoattack, and it works good to a degree, you get to help out low level players if you have a buddy there or something, but you're still not doing everything yourself. In some cases, you can, but some lower level champs aren't exactly soloable either.

And with great power comes great responsibility or something, so there will be players that abuse that, just tag everything themselves, and others will tag and just do whatever until the event ends, letting everyone else do stuff. The events aren't meant to be hard either. Some of them scale depending on how many players are active in an event, but most events are meant to be soloed if necessary, even for low level players (or level appropriate players to be exact).

This has always been this way, ever since the game released. Events are a fun side missions you do when exploring the map that can give you XP. You're not meant to rely on them in Core Tyria. You actually don't need to learn to work with other players in open PvE because the entire open world was designed to be soloable. You can solo the entire open world if you want. That's actually how Anet intended it, so it's not a handicap if you don't learn to group in open PvE because some poelpe don't ever intend to anyway. Besides. Events are not going to teach anyone group play because there are no mechanics to them, there is no way to fail if you don't work with the group.

The only PvE content that you need to learn to work with other players is the content that is designed for groups, and that's Dungeons, Fractals and Raids. Later, Heart of Thorns meta events, but those are high level content and not relevant to this discussion. So no, there's no handicap if you solo the whole open world or miss out on an event because someone else did it before you. Missing out on events happened before mounts, wiping happened before mounts too, and happens in high level areas today too by some builds. Open world is not meant to be group content. Some stuff you can't solo, but generally, you can never do an event and not miss anything important.

What's the obsession with events now anyway? They are designed in a way that they tie into the world immersion, something you stumble upon while adventuring. You do hearts, explore the map and "whoa what's this, some character needs my help" or "whoa, people are fighting a thing, let's help!" sort of thing, somethign to break the monotony of going from heart to heart, poi to poi so that the exploration doesn't turn into a routine. They're not meant to teach you group play at all, and they're not meant to be farmed for lower levels for experience. Sure, they give XP; but so does hearts, vistas, poi-s, kills, talking to people, breathing and pretty much everything you do in the game. And now suddenly, because someone wiped an event with a mount, everyone is in philosophical debates on how that hurts everyone without a mount all of a sudden when nothing really changed. If people went about their business playing the game, events would come naturally, you don't have to chase them, nor are they designed for you to chase them.

[Veprovina.4876]

@"jia li ng.8415" said:Apparently, I have witnessed this discussion and have seen it evolve commenters to this thread and myself are both representing a minority within the Guild Wars community.The tip of this iceberg is that while majority players chose to use there mounts in more appropriate zones, the use of mounts in 1-15 zones is not needed, unless it is to save a couple players from their boredom. Can you save time opening a map, the answer is "yes", a whopping 15-20 minutes, but the monotony still exists."Boredom is a condition of the unimaginative"10% of players are using their mounts appropriately in the 1-15 starter zones to save precious game time. What I am addressing is the necessity of mounts use at all in these zones. In this community of millions players the only players out there are the tens of thousands without a voice. These players are still part of the community, a silent minority that eventually will have a voice because F2P players will evolve and purchase Guild Wars 2.My resolution in one of my earliest threads I proposed that the daily be adjusted to account character level whereby a player of low levels would be able to complete their daily without intervention by higher level players, and that would resolve the problem completely.

Example:Newly created accounts with character levels below 15 have separate daily achievements on the 1-15 maps with everything from foraging, mining, logging, events, and jumping puzzles. Once that account reaches the threshold of a character level 16 participation in these events would no longer be available.Players accounts who have characters 16-34 would then be given appropriate level tasks and zones to complete their daily achievements (F2P players have no access to Lions Arch until level 35) of foraging, mining, logging, events, and jumping puzzles, after which participation in these sets of dailies is no longer available.Once a player character reaches 35 on their account and gains access to Lion's Arch the ability to participate in the daily activity achievement as well.What this introduces is a further balancing to the game, level 80 characters would no longer need to acquire their daily achievements in zones lower than 35.By doing this system of balancing a player could still purchase Heart of Thorns and or Path of Fire but the moment they use a level booster to rush to level 80 zones lower than 34 would no longer be required for the to participate in.

Furthermore, It is interesting that commenters can use disparaging remarks to impugn my views, observations, and use veiled abusive language and to get away with their insults to me, and I appreciate that from those who chose not to do so.

Nobody elected you to be the "voice of the voiceless" so essentially what you are is a social justice warrior that the group you claim to represent didn't ask for and are doing just fine without. Where are you even pulling those statistics from? You think that's an argument? You think anet will redesign the whole daily system to cater to people who are literally going to outgrow that low level content in a few hours? And you're still managing to be condescendign about "making your point" which has been rendered moot over and over again in this very thread by you yourself no less.

It's time to give it a rest. You are creating a problem where none exists.

[Erulogos.2591]

@"jia li ng.8415" said:Apparently, I have witnessed this discussion and have seen it evolve commenters to this thread and myself are both representing a minority within the Guild Wars community.The tip of this iceberg is that while majority players chose to use there mounts in more appropriate zones, the use of mounts in 1-15 zones is not needed, unless it is to save a couple players from their boredom. Can you save time opening a map, the answer is "yes", a whopping 15-20 minutes, but the monotony still exists."Boredom is a condition of the unimaginative"10% of players are using their mounts appropriately in the 1-15 starter zones to save precious game time. What I am addressing is the necessity of mounts use at all in these zones. In this community of millions players, the F2P players out there are the tens of thousands without a voice. These players are still part of the community, a silent minority that eventually will have a voice because F2P players will evolve and purchase Guild Wars 2.My resolution in one of my earliest threads I proposed that the daily be adjusted to account character level whereby a player of low levels would be able to complete their daily without intervention by higher level players, and that would resolve the problem completely.

Example:Newly created accounts with character levels below 15 have separate daily achievements on the 1-15 maps with everything from foraging, mining, logging, events, and jumping puzzles. Once that account reaches the threshold of a character level 16 participation in these events would no longer be available.Players accounts who have characters 16-34 would then be given appropriate level tasks and zones to complete their daily achievements (F2P players have no access to Lions Arch until level 35) of foraging, mining, logging, events, and jumping puzzles, after gaining level 35 participation in these sets of dailies is no longer available.Once a player character reaches 35 on their account and gains access to Lion's Arch the ability to participate in the daily activity achievement as well.What this introduces is a further balancing to the game, level 80 characters would no longer need to acquire their daily achievements in zones lower than 35.By doing this system of balancing a player could still purchase Heart of Thorns and or Path of Fire but the moment they use a level booster to rush to level 80 zones lower than 34 would no longer be required for the to participate in.

Furthermore, It is interesting that commenters can use disparaging remarks to impugn my views, observations, and use veiled abusive language and to get away with their insults to me, and I appreciate that from those who chose not to do so.

Perhaps there's a language issue in play here, but you keep hanging on whether or not mounts are necessary. Why does something need to be necessary for it to be allowed?

Leveled dailies are an interesting idea, however that would lead to something of a dry patch of failed events in mid-level zones. Lowbie events can be done with a few people, but in the mid levels it takes more folks than are usually present to get some of them done. Daily event achievements breath life into those zones from time to time, which I believe was the intent. It also seems to run counter to the intent of the level scaling mechanics of the game (even though those are imperfectly implemented,) so I don't think the leveled daily idea will gain much traction.

[Squee.7829]

So you finally accepted that a majority of the people, including the f2p ones you presumptuously spoke for, like and want to keep the mounts. But instead of accepting it, you decide to chastise and berate this majority. "I'm not wrong. It's society that's wrong!"

I'm having a hard time thinking these mysterious f2p victims really want someone so callous and offensive to be their voice. A voice that won't accept compromise and attacks the opposition when it's out of reasonable arguments.

And you literally called us lazy. To your credit, you did edit that out, but accusing people of "veiled insults, " is incredibly hypocritical. You're not wrong. There is a level of snarkiness and a derision in these counter points. I'm not denying my part in that. But what did you expect when your posts are a series of thinly veiled attacks themselves?