Can we do something about bladesworn

[Myror.7521]

@Stand The Wall.6987 8k? what you play pve? xD cause in pve it does first 3k and then 7k ^^ in pvp its just about 3,5k and 3,5k so overall 7k ^^

[CalmTheStorm.2364]

5 minutes ago, Pati.2438 said:

@Stand The Wall.6987 8k? what you play pve? xD cause in pve it does first 3k and then 7k ^^ in pvp its just about 3,5k and 3,5k so overall 7k ^^

He's factoring in the 10% bonus from River Flows, which brings the actual total to a little under 8k.

 

And @Stand The Wall.6987 is right; the heal skill is a massive part of BSw's sustain. But @Lighter.5631 is also right; it's not just the heal skill, or shouts, or River Flows, or MMR... It's all of the above at once. 

 

What people often overlook, though, is that healing is pretty much BSw's only defensive tool. It doesn't get a bunch of blocks, evades, invulns, double health bars, protection, etc. It just has one massive well of healing. So if you wanna nerf that, that's fine, but it needs some other defensive tools to compensate for the loss. 

Edited August 4, 2022 by CalmTheStorm.2364
Added last paragraph

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

I said it before and I'll say it again, all that is needed to bring down the surplus of healing from BSW in line is to change Tactical Reload to only affect BSW skills and not any other ammo skill. I'd go further and only have it recharge explosion skills instead of ammo skills.

CS could be turned into a lump sum heal that gives the boons at the same time and remove the ammo count.

From there give Blooming Fire the evade that is on the UW version of the skill, make Cyclone Trigger a full block, and add movement condi removal to breakstep.

Edited August 4, 2022 by Lan Deathrider.5910
Typo

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

21 minutes ago, CalmTheStorm.2364 said:

So if you wanna nerf that, that's fine, but it needs some other defensive tools to compensate for the loss. 

This is true and why I wish its original design took that into account. 

1 minute ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

give Blooming Fire the evade that is on the UW version of the skill, make Cyclone Trigger a full block, and add movement condi removal to breakstep.

Important and reasonable.  I would be -much- more inclined to be enthusiastic for Bladesworn if some of this mitigation was active and it wasn't just eating damage because it had to

Edited August 4, 2022 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[ArthurDent.9538]

1 hour ago, CalmTheStorm.2364 said:

I'm not saying the BSw doesn't have problems or that it couldn't use adjustment... But I am genuinely surprised that the community is zeroing in on BSw as "the" problem in the meta.

 

I encourage anyone who hasn't yet to watch Teapot's recent MAT coverage (and the Masters of the Arena tournament last weekend). In high level play, BSW is a tanky anchor in team fights or a stalemate sidenoder. The real playmakers are literally everything else. Meanwhile top teams were stacking 2 specters in the MAT and 2 eles in the MotA. 

 

BSW is strong, sure, but it certainly isn't outshining the other meta specs. Again, adjustments to BSw are warranted, but you're wrong if you think nerfing it is going to "fix" the meta. 

 

It has to do largely how little play is involved in fighting against them. Bad catalysts aren't too threatening same thing with the thieve builds and other meta specs that get used. Im personally tired of feeling like I have to land every damage skill in my kit several times nearly off cooldown to break through the completely uninteractive heal spam where they can turn around at any second with tremendous burst damage. There's just not enough potential to play bladesworn badly compared to the rest of the meta.

[Downstate.4697]

They should just reduce base heals and increase corfficients.  Now you can only get good healing by using a healing amulet.

[CalmTheStorm.2364]

25 minutes ago, FrownyClown.8402 said:

They should just reduce base heals and increase corfficients.  Now you can only get good healing by using a healing amulet.

This. 

 

Just please make Defense viable at the same time. 

Edited August 4, 2022 by CalmTheStorm.2364

[Eugchriss.2046]

29 minutes ago, FrownyClown.8402 said:

They should just reduce base heals and increase corfficients.  Now you can only get good healing by using a healing amulet.

Exactly this. I've been suggesting this idea for a long time now. Every base damage, heal, condi duration, boon duration should suck so hard that trying to use them without the proper stat will feel like a huge lost.

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

36 minutes ago, FrownyClown.8402 said:

They should just reduce base heals and increase corfficients.  Now you can only get good healing by using a healing amulet.

Im wary about just doing that, to fix bladesworn.

Dragon trigger/Bladesworn in its current state is not competitive without the healing propping it up. That will just make every shoutsworn pick the healing amulet,  then we'll be back here next month.  We did that with vindicator.

Put a block and evade on gunsaber to start (after adjusting either combat stim or otherwise). If we need to adjust it further, damage coeff on dragon trigger can go up after the animations are properly evadeable.

If you're taking about -every- healing skill, Id rather not. I don't think we're so far in the weeds that we need another megapatch for balancing.

Edited August 4, 2022 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

10 hours ago, QuestingQuaggan.8749 said:

I'm not against Bladesworns skillset per say however, you have got to address the healing god elephant in the room.

When you can just ignore major spikes and high damage rotations from opponents with a mere wiff of a faceroll we've got issues.

 

This in particular upsets me because it sheds a bit of light on the communities mentality.

Couple years ago anyone losing to hambow or zerker or spellbreaker or sinking attacks into defiant stance were here going "warrior faceroll omegalol pls nerf???1 1 ?"

And then, cut to 2022, Anet shipped a war spec that facerolls to heal?

And people calling it fair and balanced? How? Give us back healing signet coeff/stance cds/trait cds then,  if this is suddenly ok.

Feels like all the war mains quit and most of the people left are people who main other things that don't notice that it's like, a parody of everything people complained about on warrior up to this point. 

Edited August 4, 2022 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[Stand The Wall.6987]

3 hours ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

This is an objectively good point, but I still think the other specs need to be fixed at least at the same time as bladesworn adjustment, if not before. It's not about protecting bladesworn's current playstyle as much as it is giving warriors something viable to do that isn't just...yknow, straight up ignoring the game's mechanics. 

I don't think "The only way we can balance warrior is by shipping a class that ignores everything that handicaps the other warrior specs" is the right answer, and I can't rightly support (though I still respect) warrior mains that pride themselves on how they were forced to learn game fundamentals abandoning that for a dose of "not die in meta". 

yeah can't disagree there. would be really nice if berserk mode cost 10 adren to activate and full counter had its damage back. personally i don't care if bs isn't touched.

Edited August 4, 2022 by Stand The Wall.6987

[fluffypaws.2860]

1 hour ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

This in particular upsets me because it sheds a bit of light on the communities mentality.

Couple years ago anyone losing to hambow or zerker or spellbreaker or sinking attacks into defiant stance were here going "warrior faceroll omegalol pls nerf???1 1 ?"

And then, cut to 2022, Anet shipped a war spec that facerolls to heal?

And people calling it fair and balanced? How? Give us back healing signet coeff/stance cds/trait cds then,  if this is suddenly ok.

Feels like all the war mains quit and most of the people left are people who main other things that don't notice that it's like, a parody of everything people complained about on warrior up to this point. 

Azure it's my opinion and I own it. This is Mack here the Norn Berserker Warrior main.

 

I don't cast this assessment lightly of Bladesworn. I do feel now that I'm on the other side of the fence playing other classes I have a valid perspective of what needs to be done. I do admit this does make me a hypocrite as people would QQ and troll me because I would run shout heal berserker with soldier rune. They would say " Mack you're kitten",you're only good because you rely on shout heals and tactics as a carry". It seems that I'm here looking in the mirror of my old self but on steroids and it's broken.

 

I want warrior to work, to win to have its light of day. But this current iteration is literally the meaning of carry due to healing excess.

 

I have a lot of respect for you and mean no offense to warrior mains that still play warrior.

 

Mack

Edited August 4, 2022 by QuestingQuaggan.8749

[Myror.7521]

@CalmTheStorm.2364 @Stand The Wall.6987 oh so i just missunderstood him. My fail then here.

 

Tho i totaly agree with the point that its just not only the healskill that is too strong, its just the over all heal comb it could get. Tho thats why we also said we would actually like to see a nerf to its elite skill in Form of that the elite skills ammo reload path only work to bladesworn Utility skills. (Doing it would just nerf only the bladesworn itself instead of Also other warrior builds that are allready more or less Bad in its current state). The elite skill nerf would shut down the heal for just a bit (something over all for like 4k less heal Plus less boon uptime and souch). A Overall nerf so it only effects weapon skills would end up be a straigth kill nerf for the pve variant so i doubt that shouldnt happen (only if we can just made the effect be different in modes). So instead maybe make the heal skill only 1 ammo in pvp only? Also its Ranged gunsaber 3 skills should actually deal less dmg (since 9k per ammo Spam on range attacks is never good and healthy gameplay!) The rest in terms of bladesworn seem actually okayish to me :).

Edited August 4, 2022 by Pati.2438

[Saiyan.1704]

Why are people talking about Bladesworn... when the main issue was the nerfs of the powercreep EOD classes? Willbender, Vindicator, Mechanist, Specter, Harbringer... .they all used to shutdown Bladesworn. They all received HEAVY nerfs.

Bladesworn hasn't really changed since EOD...we just can't deal as much damage as we used to. How about giving back my Willbender's F1 damage instead? Or does the forum community prefer a direct nerf to Bladesworn, of which, has struggled since the start of EOD? 

Edited August 5, 2022 by Saiyan.1704

[Swagg.9236]

On 8/3/2022 at 11:38 PM, Matthius.9104 said:

How bout you get better at playing the SUPERIOR class and stop getting dumpstered by a dude playing with a handicap that is the equivalent of both arms being tied behind his back?

"How about you play the class that requires TRUE SKILL??!"

My brother in Christ, you're playing GW2.

The skill ceiling is so low that it triggers claustrophobia.

[Guirssane.7082]

48 minutes ago, Swagg.9236 said:

"How about you play the class that requires TRUE SKILL??!"

My brother in Christ, you're playing GW2.

The skill ceiling is so low that it triggers claustrophobia.

It's not low if you compare it to other mmos.

[Swagg.9236]

22 minutes ago, Guirssane.7082 said:

It's not low if you compare it to other mmos

In this case, two negatives DO NOT make a positive.  That even said, FFXIV does an infinitely better job of drawing a baseline for the skill floor than GW2.  Just because GW2's design is brown feces as opposed to green doesn't magically make it something other than feces lol.  The "it can always be worse" rationalization only works so far with a closed system like a game with rigidly fixed rules.

Just accept reality.

[Sahne.6950]

16 hours ago, semak.7481 said:

I will come with some nice excuse in case of losing then, like "my cat was playing!". xD

i personally have 2 cats and a dog.... and the dog ganking me in duells is a serious thing! 😂

[Guirssane.7082]

2 hours ago, Swagg.9236 said:

In this case, two negatives DO NOT make a positive.  That even said, FFXIV does an infinitely better job of drawing a baseline for the skill floor than GW2.  Just because GW2's design is brown feces as opposed to green doesn't magically make it something other than feces lol.  The "it can always be worse" rationalization only works so far with a closed system like a game with rigidly fixed rules.

Just accept reality.

Ff14 pvp is a joke with a 2 second GCD, how does it take more skill than gw2 lol? Did you even reach plat 2 in this game? 

[Swagg.9236]

1 hour ago, Guirssane.7082 said:

Ff14 pvp is a joke with a 2 second GCD, how does it take more skill than gw2 lol? Did you even reach plat 2 in this game? 

Yes, on core zerk guard running sanctuary with no utility stunbreaks.  Probably not a good idea to equate player ingenuity with arbitrary numbers from a busted matchmaking system in a low-effort and low-complexity system with limited, player-driven interactivity.  Tempo speed isn't the final arbiter of the skill curve.

[Saiyan.1704]

1 hour ago, Swagg.9236 said:

Yes, on core zerk guard running sanctuary with no utility stunbreaks.  Probably not a good idea to equate player ingenuity with arbitrary numbers from a busted matchmaking system in a low-effort and low-complexity system with limited, player-driven interactivity.  Tempo speed isn't the final arbiter of the skill curve.

I have never seen so many words that mean so little in one thread..

Edited August 5, 2022 by Saiyan.1704

[Swagg.9236]

2 hours ago, Saiyan.1704 said:

I have never seen so many words that mean so little in one thread..

Why single out an individual post when this entire forum (to include dev notes) is just hot air lmao