Whats the point of "pure DPS" elite specs now?

[Ashgar.3024]

1 minute ago, Mell.4873 said:

I agree but It just sounds like they need to buff Holosmith or power builds in general to fix this issue. 

The problem is definitely not that support dps exist. 

 I literally main Specter, not trying to get my own playstyle nerfed lol.

 

I just want Anet to look at Power and pure DPS builds and take them up a notch.

 

It really makes no logical sense to me how much more value i get out of Specter while doing more damage than Daredevil at the same time.

 

Same reasoning with Mec and Holo, to keep the closest example to what i have spent the most time on.

[Shao.7236]

38 minutes ago, Ashgar.3024 said:

Tell me with a straight face Druid, Firebrand, Scrapper, Scourge, Tempest and even Specter weren't built from the ground up to be support specs from the start.

That's what Anet says yet it's hardly believable if you take a good look at them and realize that everything that was produced is a different take at best.

At the baseline all core professions have something to support with and the elites attempt to capitalize on it.

[Mell.4873]

1 hour ago, Ashgar.3024 said:

I just want Anet to look at Power and pure DPS builds and take them up a notch.

I agree and to further your point the Fury buffs did nothing to Power Specializations that already had 100% critical chance. It's hard to say what needs to change but I would like to see a mass buff on something only Power Specializations need, maybe ferocity.

Its tricky since all Condition builds are not solely based off Condition damage and duration rather they are technically hybrids hence why the fury benefits them more.

Maybe a fourth stat just for Power builds so they can have Viper equivalent set?

Edited August 9, 2022 by Mell.4873

[Karagee.6830]

On 8/7/2022 at 8:44 PM, Valisha.8650 said:

Maybe give reaper alac on shouts, deadeye/daredevil quickness on... whatever they use, etc. That way we fix useless elite specs, and give all classes access to 2 most important boons.

You wouldn't have fixed anything: you would have added some participants to the beauty pageant, but there will still be only one Miss ANet winner. And btw we also know the competition is also rigged in favour of some contestants, as there are no accountability or standards within the balance team. The leaks and ensuing statements clearly showed that.

When people will realise that the fewer specs you need to compete against to provide boons and the lower the role compression, the higher the diversity in groups probably will be too late.

When you had 2 classes providing alacrity, those classes were taken irrespective of damage output or other utilities. Yes, one was superior to the other and had a larger representation but both were very welcomed in any party.

The only way to give relevance to all is not balancing the dps and giving the same boons to every class, quite the opposite. What you need is to be selective in what groups of specialisations can bring to the table in an organised group. And if some boons are too strong, so that you never ever think of tackling content without them (that means that the specs having access to it will be more sought after), then you nerf or remove the boon itself.

Edited August 9, 2022 by Karagee.6830

[Karagee.6830]

13 hours ago, Mell.4873 said:

I agree and to further your point the Fury buffs did nothing to Power Specializations that already had 100% critical chance. It's hard to say what needs to change but I would like to see a mass buff on something only Power Specializations need, maybe ferocity.

Its tricky since all Condition builds are not solely based off Condition damage and duration rather they are technically hybrids hence why the fury benefits them more.

Maybe a fourth stat just for Power builds so they can have Viper equivalent set?

They could have a stat ignoring part of the enmy armor and boosting power damage from hits that way. However introducing something as big as this is for an expansion, possibly an important and long episode of living world (like the end of a season) not some random patch. So years away.

[Ashgar.3024]

Guess i wasn't wrong.

[solemace.8427]

On 8/12/2022 at 4:52 PM, Ashgar.3024 said:

Guess i wasn't wrong.

Yeah I'm not gonna lie there's no way they weren't going to tune back up power classes eventually.

[Ashgar.3024]

9 hours ago, solemace.8427 said:

Yeah I'm not gonna lie there's no way they weren't going to tune back up power classes eventually.

Tell that to the angry Mecbot main who's confused by all my posts.

[Bunny.9834]

The only way to make those classes desirable is to make them top DPS. 

Make them all benchmark 40k dps. 🤣

[Obtena.7952]

2 hours ago, Bunny.9834 said:

The only way to make those classes desirable is to make them top DPS. 

Make them all benchmark 40k dps. 🤣

Funny part is all these people that think the 10% increases we saw on Vindicator or Reaper are enough to do that. They sure are going to be disappointed. 

The reality here isn't that the power builds got a boost because they didn't compete in teams, because they still won't. That can't be the goal. Most of these classes need power increases of 20-40% ... game history is a really good indicator of how realistic that will be. 

Edited August 14, 2022 by Obtena.7952

[Bookah pls.9352]

An interesting read on the value of most pure dps specs in Gw2 

 

Edited August 14, 2022 by Bookah pls.9352
It posted before i could even put in the link

[Mik.3401]

They are easy to design and easy to justify (according to the devs it seems). This is business at the end of a day, and they clearly just do the new specs to sell the game not to make it amazing 

Edited August 17, 2022 by Mik.3401

[Zaret.1450]

pure dps builds should get to 38k dps or close to that, while suport dps should at most get to 30k, in a ideal situation id say maybe 35k for pure power and 25 for suports.

that would make a diference.

[zeyeti.8347]

Always the same , Obtena .

You dont seem to understand that endgame players , when they play dps on a content they nailed has (for the most of us) the only purpose to be n1 dps at arcdps or to beat his own record , it's the competition . Stop denying , i played a lot of metas in eod , and the most spec i have seen is engi mech with rifle , why do you think you see 0 holosmith , cause it's hard to play and does less damage than the mech , sure on a static golem it does more but try it on last fights like annka cm , when you ll need to be ranged , what is the holo gonna do ? camp grenade kit and look at arcdps where he will slowly get to the bottom dps while engi rifle just run around pressing 0 buttons .

People here are more than true, more risks ,more difficulty on a class = more reward (++ boons , ++ damage) and stop bringing up "it doesnt affect what you wanna play" you dont seem to be and endgame enjoyer , so you basically do not understand how we think as we dont understand how you think. A melee weapon should ALWAYS do more damage than a ranged one , if not ? why playing the melee one ? for fun , cause you like it ? sure , but most of us here like whats the most efficient ! because bieng inefficient isnt fun , when i play dps 90% of the time i take my engi rifle and go to the top dps with literally 5 apm , do i enjoy it ? yes (cause i am a lazy kitten ) ! does it make sense ?no. 

Just make me cringe when i see another "dps" class with a an actual rotation getting beated be mine while iam literally eating nachos while raiding. And i know what you gonna say : "it's not the LI build problem , it's the fight that allow you to be afk" Not true imagine the fight being less easier , harder , who will take his weaver sword dagger if it gets more complicated ? Yes , nobody (except masochist).

And people play what they want for sure , but if they really like the game and do the engame content  you can be pretty sure they are gonna take whats efficient , and no what they actually like , my guild has done so,  we always have 5-6 mech in all our raid/strike comp. and i am pretty sure we are not alone ...

https://gw2wingman.nevermindcreations.de/popularity it's increasing it was at 23% 3 week ago now it's at 26% , sooner or later guild wars 2 is gonna be renamed in mech wars 2... dont worry (mmm, maybe a copyright issue there)

Edited August 18, 2022 by zeyeti.8347

[Obtena.7952]

5 hours ago, zeyeti.8347 said:

Always the same , Obtena .

You dont seem to understand that endgame players , when they play dps on a content they nailed has (for the most of us) the only purpose to be n1 dps at arcdps or to beat his own record , it's the competition .

OK ... and that's not conflicting anything I said. If you are going to beat your own record, you can play whatever you want. If you are going for top DPS, you are going to play FOTM DPS spec anyways, which aren't even the mechanist builds you complain about.

You can complain all you like about the effort/DPS inbalance, but the practical reality is that Anet are moving to enabling all levels of player capability in GW2 for all content. That means some builds aren't going follow that relationship. That's a business decision that's way more important to the game than preserving the fragile sensibilities of a few players offended by what builds other players use. 

Another thing here ... you say player that really like the game will choose efficiency ... that's just wrong. I know lots of people that really like the game that don't give a rat's behind about making build choices based on efficiency. If people are choosing efficiency over fun, that's not Anet's fault or a problem with the game design.  

First and foremost, the 'point' of any choice you have here is the choice itself. The build choices people make is up to them and their own reasons/ 

 

Edited August 18, 2022 by Obtena.7952

[Hashberry.4510]

Again, this is really only a problem for players that must be perceived to be doing better than others in order to have fun. Its a sick trap to stick yourself in, and I can’t see why these players think they deserve any sympathy or support for their obsession.

[Obtena.7952]

44 minutes ago, Hashberry.4510 said:

Again, this is really only a problem for players that must be perceived to be doing better than others in order to have fun. Its a sick trap to stick yourself in, and I can’t see why these players think they deserve any sympathy or support for their obsession.

Exactly ... especially in PVE where there is NO competitive aspect. It's completely co-operative so it's a fallacy that there is a problem because someone plays a certain way and someone else doesn't like it. It simply doesn't affect anyone how another person plays. 

[Zaret.1450]

1 hour ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Exactly ... especially in PVE where there is NO competitive aspect. It's completely co-operative so it's a fallacy that there is a problem because someone plays a certain way and someone else doesn't like it. It simply doesn't affect anyone how another person plays. 

Pve isnt competitive, true.

Then when you see a reaper in raids and know that person is gonna be last in dps because the class has no dmg its fine right?

when you have to choose between elementalist and mecanist dps and you allwais take mec because you know theyll do more dmg its fine right?

look everyone can play whatever, but the same way some people need to play low intensity builds, its also true that low intensity builds shouldnt be better than difficult builds, an easy dps build can do 37k amd an elementalist can have 40k, thw difference is minimal, you get rewarded for your effort, and noone gets kicked, nor feels useless because the build and class you like is utterly useless.

I have been forced to use alacrene before because power rev was completely useless, did they put a gun on my head? no, but if i had said, im gonna play what i like, and them i end up last in dmg, with no way to make up for it, feeling like im dragiing people down, and posibly end up kicked, and thats rev, that was spamming IO and sword skills like a bot, now imagine an ele, a holo, those classes that almost require you to be a pianist, and then a spectre, comes and does 40k when you do 35 at most and he just needs to spam 3 and venoms most of the time, wouldnt you feel thats unfair? wouldnt you feel like youre not having fun?

people that main dps are mostly 2 tipes, either new people or people that go braindead and dont care, or people that like the feeling of tearing bosses apart and wanna see who has the best numbers, no need to be toxic, just competition, and somehow your favotire class, you favorite build, just is simply useless, dead, not because youre bad or because, well, its not meta, no, because here comes other spec, that does more than you, with less effort, and is just plain overpowered, then what? change? but you womt have fun because you dont like that class? stop playing?... isnt it better, and easyer, to just recognice a problem, and say, well we dont need a huge diference, just enought so people do have fun.

Vindi doesnt have cc and requires evade timing? give it 39k, ele needs a complex rota? give it 40k maybe, mech goes condi and the pet does half the job? well let it stay at 37k.

Would people realy complain? yeah maybe some mains that allwais need to play the meta tryhard builds, but those people, in the end, enjoy just the number, not the class now build.

 

Realy, please think about it, is it realy stupid that people ask for certain dps builds to get higher numbers? or maybe it does make sense that you get something when you sacrifice something instead, be it utility, time learning or whatever.

[Obtena.7952]

2 hours ago, zaswer.5246 said:

Pve isnt competitive, true.

Then when you see a reaper in raids and know that person is gonna be last in dps because the class has no dmg its fine right?

Yup ... because if playing how I want is good for ME ... it's also good for everyone else I play with. If people want to be exclusive and not take Reapers in their teams ... that's ultimately their problem because that doesn't affect the pool of people I play with but it does affect theirs. 

Quote

when you have to choose between elementalist and mecanist dps and you allwais take mec because you know theyll do more dmg its fine right?

No that's not right. People have LOTS of reasons to choose what they want to play and those reasons don't all lead to mechanist. Again, it's just not honest to have this discussion by assuming the ONLY thing people care about when they make choices is the relationship between effort and DPS> 

 

Edited August 18, 2022 by Obtena.7952

[Zaret.1450]

24 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Yup ... because if playing how I want is good for ME ... it's also good for everyone else I play with. If people want to be exclusive and not take Reapers in their teams ... that's ultimately their problem because that doesn't affect the pool of people I play with but it does affect theirs. 

 

So you play with your friends and they dont mind if you have less dmg than the suports and you dont care for your friends caring you while you are almost dead weight, i see youre great.

 

25 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

No that's not right. People have LOTS of reasons to choose what they want to play and those reasons don't all lead to mechanist. Again, stop pretending like the only reason to choose what to play is based on this relationship between effort and DPS output. 

 

Ok lets list reasont to play something in raid for example.

As a dps, you want first and foremost good dps, something around the likes of 37k that is decent, not too strong not too bad, then cc so you can help defiance bars and not braindead, and lastly sustain, something that can take at least one hit so healers dont have a hard time, nowwww what do i think when i read this? oh yeah a condi mec, good cc, good dmg, sustain, and it is also incredibly easy to use, just spam like a madman and no thinking, or spectre, the exact same thing, power? well virtuoso has huge dmg and cc, sustain? well it has blocks and stuff, ele? you mean that paper class that needs you to have 3 arms and does decent dmg and not much cc? why would you use it when half its rotation is on the floor while being rez?

As a healer/boon? well good acces to boons and good healing sustain, decent defences, utility like barrier, cc... wait mec does all that, and its rotation? well you can spam mace and kit skills and the mech is gonna do half the job itself even if youre afk so...., tempest? what for? for rezzing the healer so he can try and maintain boons with difficulty? well its not that bad... ok lets find one... wait there are 10 mecs per tempest in the lfg? why?

I mean man come on, you can be whatever you want, and if you can play however you want with everyone and be deadweight and dont care, or maybe youre main mec and fb and you dont want other classes catching up to you, do whatever you want, but dont go saying kitten like, "OH  no ME nad my friends are perfectly fine, i dont se why people want to do dmg im fine doing 0 dmg on soldier gear and having vg running after me while i troll everyone else hahaha, or hey i dont see the problem, my thief does 40k dmg so everything should stay as it is.

Oh and of course the all powerfull hibrid, I DO EVERYTHING  builds, wich sry but are a waste of time most of the time in contents like raid, noone wants a power dps build in raid giving power, we have suports for that, you can help new players? nit realy, youre making them think those builds are god and carry while in the end they do no dmg no sup no heal and nothing to talk about.

Just play and stop messing with people triing to help the game would you?

[Obtena.7952]

26 minutes ago, zaswer.5246 said:

So you play with your friends and they dont mind if you have less dmg than the suports and you dont care for your friends caring you while you are almost dead weight, i see youre great.

It's got nothing to do with being 'great'. It's about having mutual respect between me and my team mates playing the game how we want. I don't know what this 'dead weight' is you're talking about ... we do content just fine playing how we want with the classes we choose and we do so without the 'grudge' of playing how other people tell us we must play. Sounds to me like you're just making bad choices and not understanding how the game works. 

Quote

Ok lets list reasont to play something in raid for example.

As a dps, you want first and foremost good dps, something around the likes of 37k that is decent, not too strong not too bad, then cc so you can help defiance bars and not braindead, and lastly sustain, something that can take at least one hit so healers dont have a hard time, nowwww what do i think when i read this? oh yeah a condi mec, good cc, good dmg, sustain, and it is also incredibly easy to use, just spam like a madman and no thinking, or spectre, the exact same thing, power? well virtuoso has huge dmg and cc, sustain? well it has blocks and stuff, ele? you mean that paper class that needs you to have 3 arms and does decent dmg and not much cc? why would you use it when half its rotation is on the floor while being rez?

As a healer/boon? well good acces to boons and good healing sustain, decent defences, utility like barrier, cc... wait mec does all that, and its rotation? well you can spam mace and kit skills and the mech is gonna do half the job itself even if youre afk so...., tempest? what for? for rezzing the healer so he can try and maintain boons with difficulty? well its not that bad... ok lets find one... wait there are 10 mecs per tempest in the lfg? why?

I mean man come on, you can be whatever you want, and if you can play however you want with everyone and be deadweight and dont care, or maybe youre main mec and fb and you dont want other classes catching up to you, do whatever you want, but dont go saying kitten like, "OH  no ME nad my friends are perfectly fine, i dont se why people want to do dmg im fine doing 0 dmg on soldier gear and having vg running after me while i troll everyone else hahaha, or hey i dont see the problem, my thief does 40k dmg so everything should stay as it is.

Oh and of course the all powerfull hibrid, I DO EVERYTHING  builds, wich sry but are a waste of time most of the time in contents like raid, noone wants a power dps build in raid giving power, we have suports for that, you can help new players? nit realy, youre making them think those builds are god and carry while in the end they do no dmg no sup no heal and nothing to talk about.

Just play and stop messing with people triing to help the game would you?

I don't know what this big textwall is attempting to do but it doesn't change the fact that people DO have reasons to choose builds that aren't mechanist and people actually DO choose non-mechanists to play. The fact that you don't recognize those reasons as valid makes your argument completely contrived. 

Edited August 18, 2022 by Obtena.7952

[zeyeti.8347]

You deny facts again , ele is below 4% playerbase choice on raids strikes etc  and mech alone is above 26% so what people choose in popularity is obvious , and i talk here about endgame you seem confusing open world with endgame content, as i said in another topic i can play with green/blue stuff in open world doing metas and still succeed cause it's an mmo , they are a lot of other people who will compensate for my lacks. In endgame say whatever you want i clean most of all raids everyweek , i finally cleared Ko cm and start training on Ht cm , guess what ? 60% of the comp. is mechs ...so say whatever you want" ppl play what they want blabla and they mostly play what is fun..." no , at this level ppl play what is efficient , and the next patch is far from enough to bring up the old classes , but we will see , we still can be surprised (i hope so) , are you just blind ? i post it again and tell me what you see ? https://gw2wingman.nevermindcreations.de/popularity so what do we see here people play mech cause it's fun you think ? well no , they play it cause on new strikes cm it's busted , his AA is a penetrating shot and an aoe damage at same time making it a cleave and very bursty class at same time (people who know it will see what i mean -> hiting the golem and sniper at same time to avoid "equalizer"). And dont bring up it's cause mecha has many roles . Ele can be used as dps alac heal , so why no one is playing it (i mean very few).

 

Arenanet need to buff more all other classes, especially power ones , cause the game is gonna turn in a mechagolem fiesta .

So IN ENGAME CONTENT people play mechs , and if you gonna deny this please bring me some stats , facts ... something i can look at and say "oke , Obtena you were right ...."

[Obtena.7952]

10 minutes ago, zeyeti.8347 said:

You deny facts again , ele is below 4% playerbase choice on raids strikes etc  and mech alone is above 26% so what people choose in popularity is obvious , and i talk here about endgame you seem confusing open world with endgame content, as i said in another topic i can play with green/blue stuff in open world doing metas and still succeed cause it's an mmo , they are a lot of other people who will compensate for my lacks. In endgame say whatever you want i clean most of all raids everyweek , i finally cleared Ko cm and start training on Ht cm , guess what ? 60% of the comp. is mechs ...so say whatever you want" ppl play what they want blabla and they mostly play what is fun..." no , at this level ppl play what is efficient , and the next patch is far from enough to bring up the old classes , but we will see , we still can be surprised (i hope so) , are you just blind ? i post it again and tell me what you see ? https://gw2wingman.nevermindcreations.de/popularity so what do we see here people play mech cause it's fun you think ? well no , they play it cause on new strikes cm it's busted , his AA is a penetrating shot and an aoe damage at same time making it a cleave and very bursty class at same time (people who know it will see what i mean -> hiting the golem and sniper at same time to avoid "equalizer"). And dont bring up it's cause mecha has many roles . Ele can be used as dps alac heal , so why no one is playing it (i mean very few).

 

Arenanet need to buff more all other classes, especially power ones , cause the game is gonna turn in a mechagolem fiesta .

So IN ENGAME CONTENT people play mechs , and if you gonna deny this please bring me some stats , facts ... something i can look at and say "oke , Obtena you were right ...."

I'm not denying anything ... I know people play mechs and I know how much; that was never a point of dispute in the first place, so your accusations are just nonsensical. I also know people play other things as well, for a vast number of reasons. 

I'm not confusing endgame with open world; you can play what you want in EITHER area of the game.  

Again, none of what you say here conflicts with my point I'm making with you: People can play what they want for whatever reasons they want to play it. 

 

Edited August 18, 2022 by Obtena.7952

[zeyeti.8347]

2 hours ago, Obtena.7952 said:

No that's not right. People have LOTS of reasons to choose what they want to play and those reasons don't all lead to mechanist. Again, it's just not honest to have this discussion by assuming the ONLY thing people care about when they make choices is the relationship between effort and DPS> 

Just tell me why the kkkitteeennn all my raids groups / strikes and even now fractals are full of mechs ? why my 3 statics all say the same "we dont play mech because it is fun , we play because it is broken" and thats from a guy who cleared ht cm 3 days after teapot , so he know the game issues , trust me. 

You say here that people have LOTS of reason to play anything else than mech , and thats literally lies...

Edited August 18, 2022 by zeyeti.8347

[Zaret.1450]

4 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

I'm not denying anything. I didn't dispute what people are taking or what is popular. I'm not confusing endgame with open world. All these things you accuse me of make no sense. 

 

then why do you keep deniing that mech and other clases are objectively better and thus have much more use?

and why, if you like playing whatever you want, keep saying that buffing dps that are objectively worse isnt needed?

See the point? youre just saying that because youre fine as things are then things are perfect and theres no need for changes