Return our second dodge and fix mesmers!

[Veprovina.4876]

3 hours ago, Leonidrex.5649 said:

Go to elementalist forum.
Tell them that elementalist needs 20 different hard nerfs.
Then tell them not to worry because they will get extra 0.25s daze in return.
Come back to us a tell us how they responded 😄

Yeah, i'm sure they'll love it and see the wisdom in my words! 🤣

2 hours ago, Adonaj.7932 said:

idk what is going on tho

Everyone knows what is going on but we can't talk about it. 🤡

But i agree, Catalysts especially can do way too much for virtually no tradeoffs. But Mirage, that no one plays in WvW was such a big problem that it needed 10 different nerfs just so we can have our dodge back.

 

And hey, we got our dodge back, that's what we wanted right?

But while everyone else gets stuff for free, Mesmers always have to take 2 steps back for 1 step forward.

I'm curious to try Mirage again, even with the heavy nerfs, but i somehow doubt it's going to be playable, just less janky feeling due to no split mechanics.

Edited June 13, 2023 by Veprovina.4876

[pninak.1069]

and like that we gonna get our second dodge. and as assumed it is with a slight nerf to ambush skills. just wonder how it is gonna be played when you need a mandatory stunbreak as utility. Hopefully we get more mirage roamers.

[Gesbo.6420]

For the 3 years of not having the dodge and for the year of teasing "ye we think of getting it back into the game" the solution to just disable dodge when snared is not it...

 

If it was actually on your mind at any point to have ideas this should have been a rework of great quality, not a bandaid fix... this feels insulting imho...

[phokus.8934]

2 hours ago, Gesbo.6420 said:

For the 3 years of not having the dodge and for the year of teasing "ye we think of getting it back into the game" the solution to just disable dodge when snared is not it...

 

If it was actually on your mind at any point to have ideas this should have been a rework of great quality, not a bandaid fix... this feels insulting imho...

I can't be convinced otherwise that they planned none of this out well in advance and was a last minute white board session.

[Veprovina.4876]

We're going to be quoted of being a very ungrateful community in the future, and this will be used as an example each time Mesmers need any balancing that we're not going to get because of this. You know that right?

I mean, "we got what we asked for and are now complaining" right?

I can see it now... More nerfs because "we deserve it" will be the MO from now on.

Sad.

[Waffles.5632]

3 hours ago, Gesbo.6420 said:

For the 3 years of not having the dodge and for the year of teasing "ye we think of getting it back into the game" the solution to just disable dodge when snared is not it...

 

If it was actually on your mind at any point to have ideas this should have been a rework of great quality, not a bandaid fix... this feels insulting imho...

Exactly my thoughts. This is a giant slap to the face to anyone playing Mesmer.

[Leonidrex.5649]

3 hours ago, Veprovina.4876 said:

We're going to be quoted of being a very ungrateful community in the future, and this will be used as an example each time Mesmers need any balancing that we're not going to get because of this. You know that right?

I mean, "we got what we asked for and are now complaining" right?

I can see it now... More nerfs because "we deserve it" will be the MO from now on.

Sad.

bro, I am going to be here 10 years from now, making fun of the stupid balance decisions to the bitter kittening end of the game.
no I wont play it, wont install it. but ill be here, watching and judging them.

[Veprovina.4876]

10 hours ago, Leonidrex.5649 said:

bro, I am going to be here 10 years from now, making fun of the stupid balance decisions to the bitter kittening end of the game.
no I wont play it, wont install it. but ill be here, watching and judging them.

Well, unless they hire a better balance team. 😉

[appelflap.8310]

If you ppl are complaining abou this, all I can say is learn to mesmer... 

[Veprovina.4876]

11 minutes ago, appelflap.8310 said:

If you ppl are complaining abou this, all I can say is learn to mesmer... 

Jesus Christ that was cringe like, learn to bait, then come back...

[ventress.4879]

23 hours ago, Veprovina.4876 said:

We're going to be quoted of being a very ungrateful community in the future, and this will be used as an example each time Mesmers need any balancing that we're not going to get because of this. You know that right?

I mean, "we got what we asked for and are now complaining" right?

I can see it now... More nerfs because "we deserve it" will be the MO from now on.

Sad.

Not everyone is playing Mesmer so if the other professions perceive we are OP then we will get a nerf. Not everyone wants to play a game where they find something unfair. 

The Mantra changes are a perfect example of a nerf that was unfair but well justified since there was really no counter to people instantly casting dazes, even if it was pretty bad from the Mesmer perspective. Mirage dodging is the pretty much the same case. 

Edited June 14, 2023 by ventress.4879

[Veprovina.4876]

24 minutes ago, ventress.4879 said:

Not everyone is playing Mesmer so if the other professions perceive we are OP then we will get a nerf. Not everyone wants to play a game where they find something unfair. 

What kind of argument is that?

Not everyone is playing an Elementalist so if the other professions percieve we are OP then they will get a nerf. Not everyone wants to play a game where they find something unfair.

 

Looking at all the nerfs Catalyst recieved, that is currently capable of 1v5 and 1v10 without issues and win.

 

Also - WHO is percieing Mirage as OP, no one played mirage anywhere in years now.

Edited June 14, 2023 by Veprovina.4876

[Waffles.5632]

44 minutes ago, ventress.4879 said:

Not everyone is playing Mesmer so if the other professions perceive we are OP then we will get a nerf. Not everyone wants to play a game where they find something unfair. 

The Mantra changes are a perfect example of a nerf that was unfair but well justified since there was really no counter to people instantly casting dazes, even if it was pretty bad from the Mesmer perspective. Mirage dodging is the pretty much the same case. 

Firstly that's bad logic, because perception =/= reality. You can perceive something is OP, without it actually ever being OP to begin with. That's called bias.

 

MORE IMPORTANTLY HOWEVER, you have entirely missed the point.

This patch is legit killing off class identity, just look at necro.

Necro atm has a support role entirely unique to GW2 and that is being able to secure multiple downed rezzes at once. No other class in any MMO can even claim to do that. It's such a huge power fantasy for necro, and Anet out of nowhere is killing off that ENTIRE ASPECT of the class in order to give it Alac, which no one even asked for.

Take berserker, the DEFINING PRIMAL BURST of that class is GREATSWORD ARC DIVIDER. The FEEL of RIPPING your GS around hitting everything multiple times for huge damage is HUGE part of why that class feels so good to play.

ON PAPER these are "Good" changes, but anyone with half a brain realizes IN PRACTICE these are CLASS KILLING changes.

 

Now back to Mirage.

Firstly, it's been ~4 years at this point. We went through being told to "wait" because a potential rework was coming, so w have waited. We have offered tons of feedback. We have been patient, even through the silence. This THREAD ALONE SPEAKS TO THE HISTORY OF THE ONE DODGE.

Guess what these latest patch notes say?

Quote

We believe that this is a good middle ground between the current version of Mirage Cloak and a potentially larger rework, and we'll be keeping a close eye on how it plays out.

 

THAT'S RIGHT LMFAO WE HAVE TO WAIT LONGER FOR THAT MYSTERIOUS REWORK.

This is why people are upset, not because of the changes per se, but because it's clear to anyone paying attention that Mirage is being handled with a grade of F-.

Seriously, I give CMC and the devs a big fat F- because they didn't even try to do the assignment. This is akin to a college kid promising to study for a test and then blowing it off until the very last minute and trying to BS their way through. It is entirely unprofessional how much class bias there is, because on the FLIP SIDE ELE HAS GOTTEN SEVERAL RE-WORKS ALREADY, AND ARE GETTING ANOTHER SKILL REWORK WITH CHURNING EARTH THIS PATCH, ALONGSIDE 10+ BUFFS. LIKE COME ON!!! 😭

 

Anet wants all these classes to fullfill quickness/alac roles and they are killing off everything that actually made the classes FUN TO PLAY. And that is the single most defining metric of any game, IS IT FUN TO PLAY???

 

Sorry I know this sounds heated but between you and the other people who I have never even seen post here, I mean really guys. At least open your eyes and read before posting. This isn't about the specific changes, it's about the way Anet has handled things throughout this one dodge timeline. If this patch goes through with all these class killing changes, it will be looked back on as truly the beginning of the end. This is legit worst than last years june patch, which also received similar hate, because once again Anet does not seem to want to actually understand what the players want.

 

At the very least Mirage Cloak should work through immob. You can't even move to begin with so losing MC on immob makes entirely NO SENSE from any perspective. I can at least see the argument for CC, even if I disagree, but that's peanuts compared to the larger issue at hand here.

[Veprovina.4876]

1 hour ago, Waffles.5632 said:

Anet wants all these classes to fullfill quickness/alac roles and they are killing off everything that actually made the classes FUN TO PLAY. And that is the single most defining metric of any game, IS IT FUN TO PLAY???

That's a great point, i mean, i know this is a mirage thread, and we'll keep it that way but, i just want to say this.

 

I occasionally play Scourge in Fractals when i feel like it and it's been kinda fun!

Then i read the changes and i honestly have no idea who asked for necro to get alac.

Why on earth does every profession need to fulfill every role? And while we're at it, why does mesmer fulfil none of them?

Alac mirage is dead, chrono sucks in PvE, and even Virtuoso that does DPS, does ONLY dps, no other class does just one thing. And yes, snowcrows has meta builds for each one, that's not the point, they'll make the best of any situation.

So on one hand, Anet is kiling any semblence of class identity, making all interchangeable - for NO reason - nobody wants this! And on the other, they're failing at even that because they're always just shuffling numbers around.

How long has it's been since the last "big patch" for Anet's balance team to come up with groundbreaking +/- to X in Y mode. Meanwhile, the new golden child is getting all the attention because 🤡 wants to have fun while playing.

Well it's the balance team's job to provide everyone with fun, and people are having less and less fun the more "balancing" they do. We were just out of the "fun group" for longer so we're kind of used to being down, but what about others? Reworks no one asked for nor were they overpowered, number shuffling for the 1000000th time that by now should have reached an equilibrium in PvE because nothing changes in PvE encounters - you should have shuffled those numbers around by now to reach an "optimal" targeted experience, i mean, nothing this balance team does makes sense anymore.

 

And i'm still gonna try Mirage in WvW with finally 2 dodges but i suspect that, while we got the first part of the thread down, return the second dodge, the second part, fix mesmers, still has a long way.

Edited June 15, 2023 by Veprovina.4876

[AshkyLicious.4729]

7 hours ago, ventress.4879 said:

Not everyone is playing Mesmer so if the other professions perceive we are OP then we will get a nerf. Not everyone wants to play a game where they find something unfair. 

The Mantra changes are a perfect example of a nerf that was unfair but well justified since there was really no counter to people instantly casting dazes, even if it was pretty bad from the Mesmer perspective. Mirage dodging is the pretty much the same case. 

I don't get this at all... that the customers feels the need to feed into Anets bias like this... mind numbing deluxe!

It's already bad that we have to put up with a balance team that is so obviously full of bias that they are way past unprofessional at this point.

Mirage is the perfect example of Anet's unprofessionalism, and I think they know this themselves, hence why their bias grows even more against Mirage and Mesmer as a whole. They just plainly refuse to give this class the proper attention it needs, and they never have any explanation to why they do so, even if we Mesmer mainers have been asking for this for years now!

Dont feed into Anets bully behaviour, work against it and show them actively as a customer that you are against this kind of behaviour! You dont know if your class will be the next one they just start to hate from nowhere, and you're the one who's stuck with never ending nerfs that makes zero sense. 

Edited June 15, 2023 by AshkyLicious.4729

[Varis.5467]

9 hours ago, ventress.4879 said:

Not everyone is playing Mesmer so if the other professions perceive we are OP then we will get a nerf. Not everyone wants to play a game where they find something unfair. 

The Mantra changes are a perfect example of a nerf that was unfair but well justified since there was really no counter to people instantly casting dazes, even if it was pretty bad from the Mesmer perspective. Mirage dodging is the pretty much the same case. 

God-tier logic right there 🤣

[Veprovina.4876]

Well, seems a lot of people aren't happy, and think the game isn't fun anymore...

Even elementalists aren't happy lol, even if Catalyst is mega OP right now and extremely broken.

 

Anet needs to wake up and start treating their customers with respect, allowing fun in their game. The balance team is doing an awful job. Just awful.

 

I'd say we stage a walkout too, but no one plays mesmer anymore so... 😛 I'm at least glad, people are taking a stance. This has gone way too long. Like it always does with Anet, but come on... Unfortunately, Anet will ignore the people that are playing their game, as usual, and nothing will change, until the game dies eventually, and they'll be like - "What happened?".

[ascii.1369]

1 hour ago, Veprovina.4876 said:

Well, seems a lot of people aren't happy, and think the game isn't fun anymore...

To be fair, people are unhappy with anything less then straight up buffs. Ideally without changing how the spec plays, since having to adjust their build is too much to ask. Not that I would want to defend every up coming change, but the happyness level of people on the forums is a poor indicator for the quallity of the changes.

Edited June 15, 2023 by ascii.1369

[Veprovina.4876]

8 minutes ago, ascii.1369 said:

To be fair, people are unhappy with anything less then straight up buffs. Ideally without changing how the spec plays, since having to adjust their build is too much to ask. Not that I would want to defend every up coming change, but the happyness level of people on the forums is a poor indicator for the quallity of the changes.

I know, but i've never seen anyone on any forum suggest a walkout because of the changes. People aren't happy, you don't need to have a case study to see that. Even in game, people are kinda down for a while.

[ascii.1369]

32 minutes ago, Veprovina.4876 said:

People aren't happy, you don't need to have a case study to see that. Even in game, people are kinda down for a while.

And understandably so, i fully agree with the criticism that ANet is sacrificing fun gameplay to make their boon system work, instead of fixing the kitten boon system. But I think the backlash we're currently seeing is out of proportion.

Edited June 15, 2023 by ascii.1369

[Veprovina.4876]

1 hour ago, ascii.1369 said:

And understandably so, i fully agree with the criticism that ANet is sacrificing fun gameplay to make their boon system work, instead of fixing the kitten boon system. But I think the backlash we're currently seeing is out of proportion.

It's not though. This isn't just a reaction to what they're previewing now, this is what happens when people are disappointed over and over again. No one was excited for an update in years, literally, that says a lot.

When's the last time something was done to the game to balance out professions? Bosses never change, mechanics never change, nothing ever changes except shuffling numbers around and nerfing more and more. Mesmers just got the worst of it, but no one is happy for a balance update.

Nobody trusts the balance team anymore. Not just mesmers.

Boon system is fundamentally broken. Why even bother with boons when anyone can provide each boon permanently? Just remove them, make their effects baseline, and concentrate on making each class mechanic feel fun to use, and have certain uses in instanced or other content.

What's the point of making everyone give everything?

Then, to balance that "massive" power spike - that only happens in top tier squads, so the 1% top DPS on stationary golem with no mechanics to worry about, then they nerf fun mechanics for everyone because someone was "overperforming" in Raids.

No they were not "overperforming" they perfectly executed a rotation and worked hard on it, if someone can do it - let them! They earned it!

But they're constantly balancing around percieved performances (this preview of mirage nerfs is an excellent example), and i'm not sure any of them even play the game anymore.

Edited June 15, 2023 by Veprovina.4876

[ascii.1369]

I mean yeah, I agree with pretty much everthing you say except for the following thing.

22 minutes ago, Veprovina.4876 said:

Bosses never change, mechanics never change, nothing ever changes except shuffling numbers around and nerfing more and more.

The power creep in this game has been insane. Despite people complaining about ANet constantly nerfing stuff people keep getting stronger at a rapid pace. They should have never let it get that far, but since we're here now, a couple of nerfs might be a good thing. The only issue is when it's not applied equally, which is of course the case.

Edited June 15, 2023 by ascii.1369

[ventress.4879]

15 hours ago, AshkyLicious.4729 said:

I don't get this at all... that the customers feels the need to feed into Anets bias like this... mind numbing deluxe!

It's already bad that we have to put up with a balance team that is so obviously full of bias that they are way past unprofessional at this point.

Mirage is the perfect example of Anet's unprofessionalism, and I think they know this themselves, hence why their bias grows even more against Mirage and Mesmer as a whole. They just plainly refuse to give this class the proper attention it needs, and they never have any explanation to why they do so, even if we Mesmer mainers have been asking for this for years now!

Dont feed into Anets bully behaviour, work against it and show them actively as a customer that you are against this kind of behaviour! You dont know if your class will be the next one they just start to hate from nowhere, and you're the one who's stuck with never ending nerfs that makes zero sense. 

Im just explaining the reality. 

I mean the second dodge nerf started when people got but hurt that they where being destroyed by good Mirage players mainly the Devs themselves. 

Its almost like Mirage got a timeout for 3 years so the toxic players could leave the game. I highly doubt any of us will return to Mirage since we have nostalgic bias towards the past. 

Edited June 15, 2023 by ventress.4879

[Varis.5467]

56 minutes ago, ventress.4879 said:

Im just explaining the reality. 

I mean the second dodge nerf started when people got but hurt that they where being destroyed by good Mirage players mainly the Devs themselves. 

Its almost like Mirage got a timeout for 3 years so the toxic players could leave the game. I highly doubt any of us will return to Mirage since we have nostalgic bias towards the past. 

Fact check: many other specs could be consider toxic and none got the treatment mirage received. 

Whatever you want to dress it up as - timeout or otherwise - the bias within the balance team is the real issue. 

And look, scourge having their boon corrupt removed is just the beginning of the same 💩 all over again. 

[ventress.4879]

2 hours ago, Varis.5467 said:

Fact check: many other specs could be consider toxic and none got the treatment mirage received. 

Whatever you want to dress it up as - timeout or otherwise - the bias within the balance team is the real issue. 

And look, scourge having their boon corrupt removed is just the beginning of the same 💩 all over again. 

Well Chronomancer was once the only class that could provide group Alacrity and decent Quickness so any attempt at re-imagining that Elite will never bring it back to its former glory. 

Being able to dodge even while stunned or rooted to avoid all the in comming damage will never come back. Atleast I can admit that and not live in the past like you lot are. 

How many month has this thread been going? Just play another game or OP class untill that is nerfed.