I realized one of the biggest problems with EoD final meta

[Linken.6345]

16 minutes ago, Silent.6137 said:

Snip

You can log off or map change and you won't lose the stacks. And they can be fully charged to 2 hours by just doing  another event. Not sure if the stacks persisr over reset since I've never tried it. Always finishes the meta, which will remove the stacks.

It do I had it on my mesmer for 4 days since I dident do meta.

[Dark Red Killian.3946]

If you want to compare it, compare to dragon stand, or triple trouble. You need “organized” groups to beat these also. If you don’t beat within the time limit, same thing, go home. Main difference here is organizing into parties if 5 to ensure everyone gets boons in order to increase dps and beat the timer. This and breaking the cc bar are the strategy here. People just tend to get frustrated when they first do it and don’t make it because they feel they should automatically be able to complete it just like everything else. People shouldn’t be intimidated that this is the strategy either. Just listen to your commander, and it will be ok. There are lots of Easy going commanders that explain everything and are very chill that have completed it with about 4-5 min left. If it’s your first time, hopefully you learned something about the battle and had fun.

[Sobx.1758]

17 hours ago, mythical.6315 said:

It’s not like a raid boss. The ones who made that comparison haven’t done raids. 

True and it includes OP btw 😄 :

18 hours ago, Labjax.2465 said:

it actually lacks something very important that a raid boss has. Idk exactly how raiding works in this game

 

_____________

18 hours ago, Labjax.2465 said:

Edit: Also, AFAIK, there's not much of any DPS check throughout the prep/pres, so you can spend all that time getting to the end fight and even without mistakes fighting it, be doomed to lose from the start because you never had enough DPS.

And the solution is what? Putting a dps golem in a solo instance, where you have to beat the certain dps number in order to continue into the map? Yes, that was already mentioned shortly after the release. Somehow I doubt you're voting for this solution.

btw I'm going into that meta here and there and while it's not 100% success (and I don't see why it should be), people seem to be able to organize themselves rather well and succeed pretty consistently. That's NOT with the 1h prep, since I was joining shortly before the meta start.

Edited August 21, 2022 by Sobx.1758

[Silent.6137]

Just to reiterate. The map prep can be ignored. Some squads do not bother with them at all. So long as you get 5 stacks of Dragon's End Contributor before the meta starts and participate in the escorts, you'll have 10 stacks to be able to loot all chests. Getting 5 stacks before the meta will take less than 10 minutes. So in essence, the entire prep+meta will take less than 1 hour.

Not recommended forming squads 15 minutes before meta though since squads do require a certain amount of organizing to ensure a successful run.

Edited August 21, 2022 by Silent.6137

[LONGA.1652]

This map is about personal preparation as well as boons and food provide by sqaud. When you see half of squad don't bother to run around get those protocol buffs and 0 contribution buff mean you are in for a hard DPS carry contest.

30 minute is minimum for a fresh map to get fully prep squad for Soo-won.

Edited August 21, 2022 by LONGA.1652

[AnClar.1304]

1 hour ago, Dark Red Killian.3946 said:

If you want to compare it, compare to dragon stand, or triple trouble. You need “organized” groups to beat these also. If you don’t beat within the time limit, same thing, go home. Main difference here is organizing into parties if 5 to ensure everyone gets boons in order to increase dps and beat the timer. This and breaking the cc bar are the strategy here. People just tend to get frustrated when they first do it and don’t make it because they feel they should automatically be able to complete it just like everything else. People shouldn’t be intimidated that this is the strategy either. Just listen to your commander, and it will be ok. There are lots of Easy going commanders that explain everything and are very chill that have completed it with about 4-5 min left. If it’s your first time, hopefully you learned something about the battle and had fun.

This pretty much sums up my experience with the DE meta. I began by reading all the posts that complained that the meta was too hard and close to impossible to beat. My reaction was to first read the mechanics of the meta and of the boss fight carefully. Next, realize that this was going to be a two-hour or so time sink and plan accordingly. What I came up with was this:

 

Understanding that an organized group on a meta map would improve my chances dramatically. So I identifed groups that ran this meta regularly (Hardstuck, for one) and joined those organized runs.

 

Listened to squad commanders and those who had done the meta before me, and learn from them what was expected at any given step.

 

Screwed up some the first time or two I did the meta...stuff like mistiming my CCs, or not focusing on exactly when to get to the side islands for the mini boss phases. But continued to learn, whether we beat the boss or not. I looked for reasons why we'd time out and identify what they were and how I could contribute more efficiently next time. 

 

So with a bit of front-end prep work, the groups I was in, especially early on, only failed occasionally. As I said, they were still all learning experiences to me.

 

Now, I really enjoy the DE meta. I agree with those who say the loot is not commensurate with the time and effort involved, and would sure love to see that addressed. Still, I find this to be one of the metas I really enjoy.

Edited August 21, 2022 by AnClar.1304

[AliamRationem.5172]

1 hour ago, Silent.6137 said:

Just to reiterate. The map prep can be ignored. Some squads do not bother with them at all. So long as you get 5 stacks of Dragon's End Contributor before the meta starts and participate in the escorts, you'll have 10 stacks to be able to loot all chests. Getting 5 stacks before the meta will take less than 10 minutes. So in essence, the entire prep+meta will take less than 1 hour.

Not recommended forming squads 15 minutes before meta though since squads do require a certain amount of organizing to ensure a successful run.

It can be, but in practice you're lucky if you can find such a group on a map that isn't full.  It really wasn't a good idea to have all this other stuff going on on a map that requires more or less full participation to complete the meta.

[Gorem.8104]

1 hour ago, Dark Red Killian.3946 said:

If you want to compare it, compare to dragon stand, or triple trouble. You need “organized” groups to beat these also. If you don’t beat within the time limit, same thing, go home. Main difference here is organizing into parties if 5 to ensure everyone gets boons in order to increase dps and beat the timer. This and breaking the cc bar are the strategy here. People just tend to get frustrated when they first do it and don’t make it because they feel they should automatically be able to complete it just like everything else. People shouldn’t be intimidated that this is the strategy either. Just listen to your commander, and it will be ok. There are lots of Easy going commanders that explain everything and are very chill that have completed it with about 4-5 min left. If it’s your first time, hopefully you learned something about the battle and had fun.

I think you are forgetting one major point to this, at no point does the story ever actually say "do Dragonstand" or "do Triple Trouble" in fact, its easy to not even know Triple Trouble exists. 

However! In EoD, the 2nd last story step is "beat the meta". Its optional, yes, but you miss out on an achievement for the "True ending" So the EoD Questline actually asks a person who can do 5k dps and dies a lot, whose quite happy with that, to suddenly play better and join squads and be spread into 5 person groups with boons allocated to also run around and pick up tons of buffs and do events beforehand for a buff, which I already seen someone post below you complain about other people not doing. 

So its hard to compare it to anything, when this is the first time the actual story has asked us to do a raid like meta. Plus, in those other contents, you have people asking not to CC as we always cc the snek too fast. So the game really gives mixed signals here. 

Plus, after some people failed 10-20, they honestly deserve to be frustrated and tired of the content, especially as this meta is the least rewarding meta in the game when you fail, you fail Dragonstand, you still come out of it rewarded. Never include Triple Trouble, nothing points you there, and only like one group is doing it these days, it'll soon become like Serpents ire if that group stopped. 

Edited August 21, 2022 by Gorem.8104

[Silent.6137]

38 minutes ago, Gorem.8104 said:

I think you are forgetting one major point to this, at no point does the story ever actually say "do Dragonstand" or "do Triple Trouble" in fact, its easy to not even know Triple Trouble exists. 

However! In EoD, the 2nd last story step is "beat the meta". Its optional, yes, but you miss out on an achievement for the "True ending" So the EoD Questline actually asks a person who can do 5k dps and dies a lot, whose quite happy with that, to suddenly play better and join squads and be spread into 5 person groups with boons allocated to also run around and pick up tons of buffs and do events beforehand for a buff, which I already seen someone post below you complain about other people not doing. 

So its hard to compare it to anything, when this is the first time the actual story has asked us to do a raid like meta. Plus, in those other contents, you have people asking not to CC as we always cc the snek too fast. So the game really gives mixed signals here. 

Plus, after some people failed 10-20, they honestly deserve to be frustrated and tired of the content, especially as this meta is the least rewarding meta in the game when you fail, you fail Dragonstand, you still come out of it rewarded. Never include Triple Trouble, nothing points you there, and only like one group is doing it these days, it'll soon become like Serpents ire if that group stopped. 

In other words, what you want is the same old, same old. Show up, auto-attack and get well-rewarded. Any meta that smacks of any differences. have certain difficulties and require some effort, get rid of them.

Edited August 21, 2022 by Silent.6137

[Sobx.1758]

1 hour ago, Gorem.8104 said:

I think you are forgetting one major point to this, at no point does the story ever actually say "do Dragonstand" or "do Triple Trouble" in fact, its easy to not even know Triple Trouble exists. 

However! In EoD, the 2nd last story step is "beat the meta". Its optional, yes, but you miss out on an achievement for the "True ending" So the EoD Questline actually asks a person who can do 5k dps and dies a lot, whose quite happy with that, to suddenly play better and join squads and be spread into 5 person groups with boons allocated to also run around and pick up tons of buffs and do events beforehand for a buff, which I already seen someone post below you complain about other people not doing. 

Not only what you're ""missing out"" on by not getting that achievement is... literally 1 AP and nothing else, but you also don't need to succeed at the meta to get it.

You're also perfectly fine by following the green pointers and play the story without every noticing you could get that 1 ap on the way. How is this even something to complain about?

Edited August 21, 2022 by Sobx.1758

[Astralporing.1957]

22 hours ago, mythical.6315 said:

It’s not like a raid boss. The ones who made that comparison haven’t done raids. 

I have made that comparison at some point. I have also done raids (a lot, in fact). So, you were saying?

14 hours ago, Vayne.8563 said:

People said the same about triple trouble and tequatl when they first launched though.  Then the community learned how to do it. We're moving along to that point now.

Not quite. Community for the most part learned to ignore Triple Trouble (and pretend it does not exist). While Tequatl got nerfed - a lot. With DE, we're moving indeed towards that first option - community for the most part just stopped showing up. Except it just wasn't a small side event - it was the reason of existence for the whole map. The final map of an expansion. So, a significant part of the community learned to ignore that whole map as a result. Which is hardly a good result.

 

[Sobx.1758]

23 hours ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

I have made that comparison at some point. I have also done raids (a lot, in fact). So, you were saying?

See, I've killed spiders in queensdale, so that means if I want to compare DE meta to killing those spiders, it automatically means I'm correct.

23 hours ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

Except it just wasn't a small side event - it was the reason of existence for the whole map. The final map of an expansion.

What "reason for existance" do the all of the other maps have? You are as free to spam random events without going for the meta event as you are anywhere else. Or are the only maps you're counting as "having a reason to exist" are the ones you can repeatedly farm for one of the highest gph?

Edited August 22, 2022 by Sobx.1758

[Vayne.8563]

54 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

I have made that comparison at some point. I have also done raids (a lot, in fact). So, you were saying?

Not quite. Community for the most part learned to ignore Triple Trouble (and pretend it does not exist). While Tequatl got nerfed - a lot. With DE, we're moving indeed towards that first option - community for the most part just stopped showing up. Except it just wasn't a small side event - it was the reason of existence for the whole map. The final map of an expansion. So, a significant part of the community learned to ignore that whole map as a result. Which is hardly a good result.

 

Triple Trouble is done multiple times every day. I know this because I always get new players in my guild to do it. Waiting for organized groups and joining them is very different from ignored.

You may ignore it. I did it as recently as four days ago.

[mythical.6315]

7 hours ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

I have made that comparison at some point. I have also done raids (a lot, in fact). So, you were saying?

Then you're mistaken in your comparison.

[Cyninja.2954]

8 hours ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

I have made that comparison at some point. I have also done raids (a lot, in fact). So, you were saying?

 

Obviously the claim about players not having raided was done with the intent to signal that any reasonable comparison to raids is unfounded if we assume an even skilled raid squad.

 

The DE meta is far from an open world raid. It does share some similarities with raids and challenging content in that having boons is highly beneficial and that around 30% of the squad, if they play properly, can carry the rest. That's pretty much where the similarities end. 

 

The claim that this is an open world raid does not hold true if we assume a somewhat evenly skilled raid squad across all 10 players.

 

It does hold true when we assume a highly disproportionate skilled raid squad where 30-40% of the players carry the rest. Which at the same time disqualifies the argument that this content is overly difficult but rather that a disproportionate amount of less underperforming players are required for success.

8 hours ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

Not quite. Community for the most part learned to ignore Triple Trouble (and pretend it does not exist). While Tequatl got nerfed - a lot. With DE, we're moving indeed towards that first option - community for the most part just stopped showing up. Except it just wasn't a small side event - it was the reason of existence for the whole map. The final map of an expansion. So, a significant part of the community learned to ignore that whole map as a result. Which is hardly a good result.

 

 

That's a very subjective view. You and others who don't show up to the meta have your views reinforced that "no one is running the meta" because you aren't running the meta. Meanwhile players which actually run the meta will have the exact opposite subjective view. 

 

Me personally, I have no issue finding a squad, even without resorting to using discord or preorganized groups, when I feel like doing the meta occasionally. Hence my subjective view is: the meta is fine where it's at. Less organized maps continue to fail. Maps with minimal organization (basically just quickness and alacrity groups and not only zombies on map) have a very high success rate.

[Izzy.2951]

The only problem to Dragons End meta is people that 1st wants to just show up and win-win even if they are kinda afk. An 2nd that they dont wanna improve and socialice.

The meta is perfect as a 10 year finish, its very cool to have content that makes you interact with other players and that is kinda hard, not just showing up while looking at whatsapp and spaming 1, to win always. That is what happens in nearly all of the metas. And its really boring to be fair.

PD: The only thing i would adjust for future metas like this is the time, make it 30-45min as much.

Edited August 22, 2022 by Izzy.2951

[Luci.7018]

I hope the company learned their lesson and never create an event with strict timer or high HP , the rest is cool

Now let's focus with re-introducing Marionette fight  with an open-world format and we can use the assets of  EoD map later on again

Edited August 22, 2022 by Luci.7018

[Izzy.2951]

8 minutes ago, Luci.7018 said:

I hope the company learned their lesson and never create an event with strict timer or high HP , the rest is cool

My question is Why? why would they need to learn a lesson about adding an epic event that is not just showing up and being afk while you get the rewards, which is super boring. 

If there are ppl that havent complete this event yet its just cos they are lazy and want to leech events. Which should be even baneable, cos its not fair having 20 ppl doing their best, interacting to sort out roles while you have other 20 ppl looking at watsapp and spamming 1.

Edited August 22, 2022 by Izzy.2951

[Luci.7018]

1 minute ago, Izzy.2951 said:

My question is Why? why would they need to learn a lesson about adding an epic event that is not just showing up and being afk while you get the rewards, which is super boring. 

If there are ppl that havent complete this event yet, its just cos they are lazy and want to leech events. Which should be even baneable, cos its not fair having 20 ppl doing their best, interacting to sort out roles to have other 20 ppl looking at watsapp and spamming 1.

Chill dude . Are you going to explode or something ?

[yoni.7015]

9 minutes ago, Luci.7018 said:

I hope the company learned their lesson and never create an event with strict timer or high HP , the rest is cool

It is not a strict timer when almost all groups finish the fight with at least five minutes on the timer. There is not a really a lesson to be learned. 

[Izzy.2951]

6 minutes ago, Luci.7018 said:

Chill dude . Are you going to explode or something ?

Those are your arguments? Thanks for not answering my question. Cos indeed its just complaining for complaining. Just to keep leeching events and have a super boring game.

Edited August 22, 2022 by Izzy.2951

[Luci.7018]

1 minute ago, Izzy.2951 said:

Those are your arguments? Thanks for not answering my question. Cos indeed its just complaining for complaining. Just to keep leeching events and have a super boring game.

A successful  relaxed game you mean , that the majority enjoy

We have Raids and Strikes for people that love exciting fights

[yoni.7015]

2 minutes ago, Luci.7018 said:

A successful  relaxed game you mean , that the majority enjoy

We have Raids and Strikes for people that love exciting fights

What’s wrong with one meta event that is not auto attack while you’re watching Netflix? 

Edited August 22, 2022 by yoni.7015

[Luci.7018]

3 minutes ago, yoni.7015 said:

What’s wrong with one meta event that is not auto attack while you’re watching Netflix? 

You can ask an instanced model of it

 

Edit: wait... why not make EoD last fight into a Fractal area ?

And 3 months from now , the Devs create a blog saying that they re-desinged the EoD meta ?

Edited August 22, 2022 by Luci.7018

[yoni.7015]

Just now, Luci.7018 said:

You can ask an instanced model of it

Why? Again, what is wrong with having one meta event that is not auto attack while you’re watching Netflix?