Dear ANet: Please Re-work the Mace

[CalmTheStorm.2364]

@Josh Davis.7865

Please consider re-working some of Warrior's weapons, especially the Sword and Mace.

 

Mace in particular is mostly a niche CC-stick with almost no other utility.  It gets an interesting boost in usefulness with Berserker's skull grinder skill, but has no other tools to follow it up/complement it.  Below are my suggestions for improvement:

 

F1--Skull Crack

300 range leap finisher (use skull grinder animation)

3/4s cast 

Same dmg/stun duration as current skill

 

Auto Attack chain:

AA1:  same dmg, add 1 stack of torment for 6s. 1/4s cast

AA2: same dmg, add 1 stack of torment for 6s. 1/2s cast

AA3: same dmg, add 3 stacks confusion.  3/4s cast

 

Skill 2:  Sundering Smash

Slam ground with your mace, damaging nearby enemies and inflicting weakness (2s) and torment (3 stacks for 6s).  Damage and conditions are doubled if the target is disabled (i.e., 4s weakness and 6 stacks torment for 6s).

1/2s cast

0.75 coeff (in comp); 1.5 coeff if target is CC'd.

5s CD in PvE, 8s CD in PvP/WvW

5 targets, 180 radius

 

Skill 3: Counterblow/Pommel Bash

Full channeled block for 1.5s.  If you block an attack, gain access to Pommel Bash (flip-over skill)

Pommel bash: instant cast, 1s stun

 

Skill 4: BoiNk!  (aka Throw Mace)

Throw your mace to BoiNk! your foe, dazing and confusing them.  (Use same animation as Impale)

900 range

1.0 coeff (PvP/WvW)

1s daze

5 stacks of confusion for 3s

1/2s cast, 15s CD

 

Skill 5:  Tremor

Leap to the target area (ground-targeted AoE) and slam the ground with your mace, knocking down enemies.

600 range

3s knock down

3/4s cast, 20s CD

 

Related Traits:

Body Blow:

Inflict weakness (3s) and gain might (5 stacks for 5s) when you disable a foe

 

Sundering Mace:

Disabling a foe inflicts vulnerability (5 stacks for 6s) and bleeding (3 stacks for 6s).

Mace skills gain 20% reduced recharge

 

Cull the Weak:

Burst skills inflict weakness on hit.  Weakness scales with adrenaline spent (2s/4s/6s for T1/2/3 burst).

Inflict +10% damage to weakened foes.

 

Discussion:

These changes provide the following benefits:

1.) addition of mobility/ gap closers (skull crack and tremor)

2.) better damage output (sundering smash, better trait synergies)

3.) a tactical ranged interrupt (throw mace)

4.) alternative/complementary condi kit to pair with/use in place of sword.  Note that the kit/traits include cover condis as well; this helps increase the viability of condi builds, esp in competitive modes

5.) these changes preserve the CC output of Mace to keep it useful in PvE/breakbar situations

6.) better/more reliable mainhand defensive option (counterblow being a full block)

 

These changes will introduce various playstyles and build options that should benefit all warrior specs (probably core and berserker most notably).

 

Thanks for considering it!

 

Edited December 23, 2022 by CalmTheStorm.2364

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

Can Boink become Bonk instead? Some players I've seen need to be Bonked and sent to a certain jail, if you know what I meme.

That said, these changes would be a much more interesting weapon set than the current Mace/Mace bar.

[CalmTheStorm.2364]

7 minutes ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

Can Boink become Bonk instead? Some players I've seen need to be Bonked and sent to a certain jail, if you know what I meme.

That said, these changes would be a much more interesting weapon set than the current Mace/Mace bar.

Haha I had to Google that one.  But I'm on board!  Bonk it is.  I'd love to hear my Norn yell, "Go to horny jail" when he throws his mace.  

 

But on a more serious note, I can just imagine so many more uses for Mace/Mace, both in small fights/duels as well as in teamfights with the proposed changes.  Condi macezerker in particular could be a real force, but maybe power GS/mace/mace could see play, especially if Defense got some good sustain improvements, too.  #Fix300sCDTraitsAlready.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

Just now, CalmTheStorm.2364 said:

Haha I had to Google that one.  But I'm on board!  Bonk it is.  I'd love to hear my Norn yell, "Go to horny jail" when he throws his mace.  

I'm at work other wise I would have searched for the meme to link in. Glad I made you laugh. Or your Norn could yell out Bonkai!!!

Just now, CalmTheStorm.2364 said:

But on a more serious note, I can just imagine so many more uses for Mace/Mace, both in small fights/duels as well as in teamfights with the proposed changes.  Condi macezerker in particular could be a real force, but maybe power GS/mace/mace could see play, especially if Defense got some good sustain improvements, too.  #Fix300sCDTraitsAlready.

I mean, its either Body Blow becomes power damage, and thus raise the value of Mace/Mace in all game modes with one simple change, or Mace/Mace itself needs a complete rework with new skills.

I'd certainly like it if Mace/Mace focused more heavily on weakness, confusion, and torment, but you may have overstacked it. That and I don't think Anet is going to do that scale of a rework on it. Would I love that? Sure. Do I expect it? Nope.

[oscuro.9720]

BoiNk! 

[Broxxgar.6801]

I don't even read, just re-work it !!! Everything that is different from which we have now, should be automatically implemented.

 

Mace is by far  the worse weapon that Warrior has.

Edited September 1, 2022 by Broxxgar.6801

[Mungrul.9358]

Not so sure about Torment, but I've always thought that Mace auto-attack should apply vulnerability.

I mean, I'm not slavishly addicted to the idea of verisimilitude in games, as making things "realistic" all too often ruins games.

 

But that's what maces do.

 

When chain and plate armour became a thing, and it got increasingly hard to hurt an armoured opponent with a sword, the mace started to see more use, as it's a crushing weapon as opposed to a stabbing or cutting one. You don't have to worry about piercing armour if your mace crushes it and the body it's protecting.

Vulnerability strikes me as being the best way to emulate this behaviour.

 

It's also not a "magical" condition, unlike Torment.

[Mungrul.9358]

But also, I'm in favour of increasing attack speed with maces. It being the slowest single-handed melee sorta made sense on release, but I'm of the opinion these days that all Warrior dual-wield weapons should have the same attack speed. Otherwise, axe or dagger are ALWAYS going to be the best choices when dual-wielding.

 

It's not quite as important as it was in GW1, but IAS (Increased Attack Speed) or "Quickness" in GW2 parlance is still probably the most effective offensive boon available to players. Axe and dagger having an attack speed advantage out of the gate immediately deprecates the effectiveness of maces.

 

[Psykewne.3025]

Mainhand mace should be reworked into a 900 range thrown weapon

[prototypedragon.1406]

Given the first banner update anet released idk if I want them touching mace as it is lol the cc damage of 15 may go down to 5 out of their spite for warriors in competitive modes 😂🤣. But honestly I'd rather take anything then the current installment Poison maces let's do it!!!

[Aeolus.3615]

On 9/1/2022 at 10:34 AM, Mungrul.9358 said:

But also, I'm in favour of increasing attack speed with maces. It being the slowest single-handed melee sorta made sense on release, but I'm of the opinion these days that all Warrior dual-wield weapons should have the same attack speed. Otherwise, axe or dagger are ALWAYS going to be the best choices when dual-wielding.

 

It's not quite as important as it was in GW1, but IAS (Increased Attack Speed) or "Quickness" in GW2 parlance is still probably the most effective offensive boon available to players. Axe and dagger having an attack speed advantage out of the gate immediately deprecates the effectiveness of maces.

 

What IF mace aply Selfish quickness, as much i hate boon spam if its selfish its okish i guess and warrior weapons are in a freaking awfull state (dev quality IMO).

Balance updates are like the content of the game itself... temporary they always miss the mark, CC skills lost  damage but they FORGOT that they need to balance the weapons and change the skill IF necessary (which Warrior needs this check up ASAP).

 

Edited September 2, 2022 by Aeolus.3615

[Laughingman.9537]

Increased auto attack speed, a short leap and blast finisher on Skull crack would be amazing.

Pretty much all mace skills need some rework besides Crushing blow, why is Tremor a projectile, who knows?!🤔

[Grand Marshal.4098]

If they can't ever see at these suggestions, AT LEAST GIVE SKULLGRINDER A PROPER LEAP AND A FINISHER! 

[CalmTheStorm.2364]

On 9/1/2022 at 5:23 AM, Mungrul.9358 said:

Not so sure about Torment, but I've always thought that Mace auto-attack should apply vulnerability.

I mean, I'm not slavishly addicted to the idea of verisimilitude in games, as making things "realistic" all too often ruins games.

 

But that's what maces do.

 

When chain and plate armour became a thing, and it got increasingly hard to hurt an armoured opponent with a sword, the mace started to see more use, as it's a crushing weapon as opposed to a stabbing or cutting one. You don't have to worry about piercing armour if your mace crushes it and the body it's protecting.

Vulnerability strikes me as being the best way to emulate this behaviour.

 

It's also not a "magical" condition, unlike Torment.

I agree that maces should apply significant vulnerability. In my suggestions, that vuln application would come through the sundering mace trait, which would inflict vuln (and bleeding) with every CC.

 

I see what you're saying about "magical" torment, but... Eh, I'm over it. There is almost nothing in this game that is realistic, and I'm really not sure where the whole " warrior can't have magic" idea comes from or why it was felt to be necessary. (Seriously, explain full counter to me without using magic... Or rampage... Or flaming flurry shooting fireballs from your sword....).

 

Warrior seriously needs a second melee condi/hybrid weapon to go along with sword, and mace would be a logical choice. Moreover, we already have power CC tools in the form of hammer and shield, so it would be fitting to have a condi-oriented CC set. Further still, it makes no sense for skull grinder to be a condi burst skill on a power weapon; converting mace to a condi weapon would allow condizerker to get some supporting offense from the rest of the MH mace.

[CalmTheStorm.2364]

Bump.

 

Please consider reworking the Mace for the November patch!

[CalmTheStorm.2364]

Bumping this in response to @Zizekent.2398's post about maces.  Not all of the trait suggestions on the OP make sense anymore because of the Defense rework, but the weapon suggestions are still valid.

 

 @Cal Cohen.2358 this would be a pretty sweet Christmas/New Year's present for your faithful Warrior's 😜♥️